gay marriage

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Okay, so my premise is that if homosexual sex is wrong according to the Bible, then according to many members here, that means that homosexuality is wrong, due to marriage leading to sex.

This is not opinion, and is based off the bible.

I respectfully disagree. Commitment is important in this day and age, between anybody. If you think literally, then there is no such thing as gay marriage, since marriage is described as a bond between a man and a woman.

It's described as a bond between a man and a woman in the bible.

Gays will do whatever they will do, and I feel that not allowing them to have marriage is impeding them from natural human rights.

This is opinion, I guess my earlier statement was too general, I'm sorry.

But looking at this, it's hard to see what your stance is. If you think that impeding their marriage is wrong, but you also think gay marriage is wrong, then it's easy to see where I'm confused at your position.

Are not Christians supposed to still treat gays like people, and homosexuality as we would any other sin?

This is taken directly from the bible.

As two sentient human beings, they are entitled to the benefits of marriage. Especially in this financial state America is currently in. You see, many sources have said that it's better to have someone special to go through the hard times with. It is also financially wiser to have a partner.

Again, I'm confused with your position. You say that gays should be married to help them in tough times, but wasn't your original stance that you were against marriage between homosexuals?

If I misunderstood you, I'm sorry, but this is really confusing to me.

That's true RDK.

 

[|RK|]

No I wasn't against it. I stated what most people said about marriage leading to sex, then said that I disagreed. I never said I was against gay marriage.

Oh, and definition of marriage:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/marriage

Check #1

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

OK, I'm sorry about that.

That may be the definition, but the fact that homosexuals have been legally married proves that wrong.

 

[|RK|]

Okay, then, however, I'm sure that they didn't get the marital benefits, which I don't agree with.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. The world was not meant for people of the same sex to fall in love. Which is why 2 people of the opposite sex are able to reproduce. Personally, i don't believe gay marrige is right. It says in the bible that homosexuals won't enter heaven.

 

[KrazyGlue]

God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. The world was not meant for people of the same sex to fall in love. Which is why the people of the opposite sex are able to reproduce. Personally, i don't believe gay marrige is right. It says in the bible that homosexuals won't enter heaven.

We've already been through this. You can't force all the gay people in the world to accept your religion. That's why there is a separation of church and state.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Krazy your right, however the question in this debate was how u felt about gay marrige. i put how I felt about it and why. The topic doesnt really ask for a debate anyway just opinion.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Krazy your right, however the question in this debate was how u felt about gay marrige. i put how I felt about it and why.

Saying "the bible says so" isn't really your feelings; it's someone else's. Whether or not this is what you choose to believe, you haven't actually given your own feelings.

The topic doesnt really ask for a debate anyway just opinion.

The whole point of this subforum is to debate.

 

[Eor]

Hi, I was asked to post here. So I shall. This thread needs some direction. More specifically, it needs a purpose.

There are really two different aspects to this debate, which must be kept explicitly clear and separate.

1) Gay marriage as a policy decision.
2) Gay marriage from a moral standpoint.

These are not the same thing, not even close. There are many illegal things which are not immoral, and there are many immoral things which are not illegal. So arguments for one do not in any way roll over to the other.


The first subject is far more interesting, as the second is entirely subjective and almost never supported by any substance. But you are free to debate this, so long as you try to add substance.

Arguments for or against gay marriage can include:
- Why it is or is not beneficial to society
- Whether or not it impedes freedom / does or does not violate constitutional rights
- Similarities or differences to other civil rights movements
- etc...

Something that is NOT a valid argument
- "I believe that it is morally wrong." -This is an argument for the second half of the debate, not the first.
- "Being gay is / is not a choice" -Entirely irrelevant, except from a moral standpoint. See above.
- Anything to do with religion. The government cannot make policy decisions on the basis of religious belief. Period. No religious arguments here.
- etc...


Continue

I simply want to requote this because people are ignoring it

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Saying "the bible says so" isn't really your feelings; it's someone else's. Whether or not this is what you choose to believe, you haven't actually given your own feelings.



The whole point of this subforum is to debate.

i know. however the peson asked what we thought of gay marrige. The person should of worded it like this " Is homosexuality right" this then would of sparked an actualy debate instead of an opinion fest.

fine, i'll tell you what I really think. Im not trying to be homophobic but homosexuality is disgusting in my opinion. The bible isn't the only proof that homosexuality is wrong but just take a look around you. Almost every person and animal in the world is heterosexual because its natures way to produce youngspring. Also non of this homosexual hype existed hundreds of years ago. there was homosexuals back then but not as much precentage wise as today. what does that tell you. is homosexuality a natural thing that allows our earth to flourish with life? No. homosexuality is not bad but its not right either.

 

[Eor]

Homosexuality was actually much more common in the past, as was bisexuality. Greece, for example, was largely in support of homosexuality. Spartan warriors were expected to form homosexual bonds with other soldiers in order to make them fight better. Every Roman Emperor but one took a male lover

and homosexuality in nature is well document. The Bonobo species is fully bisexual

 

[Lixivium]

fine, i'll tell you what I really think. Im not trying to be homophobic but homosexuality is disgusting in my opinion.

*facepalm*

The bible isn't the only proof that homosexuality is wrong but just take a look around you. Almost every person and animal in the world is heterosexual because its natures way to produce youngspring...is homosexuality a natural thing that allows our earth to flourish with life? No. homosexuality is not bad but its not right either

"Youngspring" I've never heard that term before.

So homosexuality is wrong because gay people don't reproduce. Well somebody better tell all the single people out there that they're "not bad but not right either". And those priests and monks who choose to be celibate, don't know they're going against nature???

Also non of this homosexual hype existed hundreds of years ago. there was homosexuals back then but not as much precentage wise as today. what does that tell you.

How you know that there weren't as many homosexuals back then as there was today?

You know, there were people who went to school hundreds of years ago "but not as much percentage wise as today. What does that tell you" about going to school?



Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation; it cannot be classified as an illness; we consider it to be a variation of the sexual function, produced by a certain arrest of sexual development. Many highly respectable individuals of ancient and modern times have been homosexuals, several of the greatest men among them. (Plato, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc.) It is a great injustice to persecute homosexuality as a crime—and a cruelty, too. . . .

~ Sigmund Freud
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/Rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.html

 

[BOB SAGET!]

*facepalm*



"Youngspring" I've never heard that term before.

So homosexuality is wrong because gay people don't reproduce. Well somebody better tell all the single people out there that they're "not bad but not right either". And those priests and monks who choose to be celibate, don't know they're going against nature???



How you know that there weren't as many homosexuals back then as there was today?

You know, there were people who went to school hundreds of years ago "but not as much percentage wise as today. What does that tell you" about going to school?



Homosexuality is assuredly no advantage, but it is nothing to be ashamed of, no vice, no degradation; it cannot be classified as an illness; we consider it to be a variation of the sexual function, produced by a certain arrest of sexual development. Many highly respectable individuals of ancient and modern times have been homosexuals, several of the greatest men among them. (Plato, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, etc.) It is a great injustice to persecute homosexuality as a crime—and a cruelty, too. . . .

~ Sigmund Freud
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/Rainbow/html/facts_mental_health.html

one main part of a relationship is sex. sex is only for reproduction so gay relationships can lead to inmoral sex.

the point of my statement on the percentage of homosexuality is that homosexuality just became more popular now. not back then.

****. u got me there. i ment offspring

 

[RDK]

Sorry, but where exactly in the Bible does it specifically say that gay people won't enter heaven? Because I'm pretty sure this is all the Bible has to say about homosexuality, and it's confined to Leviticus nonetheless:

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Some advice: if for some reason you ever want to fall asleep really quickly, try reading Leviticus, or any of the other Books of the Law.

one main part of a relationship is sex. sex is only for reproduction so gay relationships can lead to inmoral sex.

Sex is one main part of a relationship, but again, that can vary from couple to couple. And no, sexual intercourse is not only about reproduction. Anyone familiar with sex would tell you that it probably feels good. Although I'm really grasping for straws with that last point, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

the point of my statement on the percentage of homosexuality is that homosexuality just became more popular now. not back then.

What do you mean by "popular"? Didn't you just read Eor's post? Being gay was quite commonplace, depending on which era of humanity you looked at.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Sorry, but where exactly in the Bible does it specifically say that gay people won't enter heaven? Because I'm pretty sure this is all the Bible has to say about homosexuality, and it's confined to Leviticus nonetheless:



Some advice: if for some reason you ever want to fall asleep really quickly, try reading Leviticus, or any of the other Books of the Law.



Sex is one main part of a relationship, but again, that can vary from couple to couple. And no, sexual intercourse is not only about reproduction. Anyone familiar with sex would tell you that it probably feels good. Although I'm really grasping for straws with that last point, so take what I say with a grain of salt.



What do you mean by "popular"? Didn't you just read Eor's post? Being gay was quite commonplace, depending on which era of humanity you looked at.

about eors post i wanna see some proof on that. its also debated whether or not da vinci was gay or not. also Spansh explorers killed homosexuals.

sex was meant to reproduce not to make u feel good even though it does. so what r u some sort of tough guy because your a debater. saying reading the bible makes u fall asleep was uncalled for.

 

[Eor]

ok

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece
http://www.livius.org/ho-hz/homosexuality/homosexuality.html

(If you're going to go the old 'wikipedia is not valid' route, then just look at the sources)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Rome
http://badarchaeology.blogspot.com/2007/04/question-time-greek-homosexuality.html

http://www.nerve.com/regulars/lifeswork/bonobo/
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

 

[BOB SAGET!]

ok

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece
http://www.livius.org/ho-hz/homosexuality/homosexuality.html

(If you're going to go the old 'wikipedia is not valid' route, then just look at the sources)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Rome
http://badarchaeology.blogspot.com/2007/04/question-time-greek-homosexuality.html

http://www.nerve.com/regulars/lifeswork/bonobo/
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

homosexuality became punishable by death in Rome. and come on. the hetereosexual population completely dwarfs the homosexual population. it does now and did then. back then only certain cultures excepted, now almost everyone of them does.

 

[Xsyven]

The "sex is for making babies" argument is terrible. Having sex strengthens any relationship tenfold. I'd almost go as far as saying it's impossible to be in love with someone without it. Most successful couples have sex extremely often-- and yet most families have only 4 children max. Are those couples performing immoral sex?

 

[RDK]

sex was meant to reproduce not to make u feel good even though it does.

Okay, so what? That's beside the point. You have yet to provide a secular reason why homosexuality is bad or wrong.

And saying a biological function or process was "meant" for one thing and "not meant" for another is stupid. That's the whole gist of biological evolution--certain functions or processes become co-opted to perform other functions or processes.

A quick and easy example: the cow tail. If I asked you what the purpose of a cow (or horse's) tail was, you'd probably say to swat flies. Biologically speaking, however, tails have been around far longer than flies. Needless to say, the cow's current version of a tail was no doubt left over or developed from whatever it's ancestor's tail's function was in order to fulfill the function of swatting flies. Through natural selection, cows whose tails were more adapted for this function were chosen, and the function was streamlined, whereas before, the tail was most likely used by some marine animal (or an organism of similar ancestry) to steer its body in the water.

Edit: in retrospect, I admit that that example was not so quick, but I'm not going to go into a detailed analysis of the evolution of functional adaptations.

 

[Xsyven]

I also want to make a comment on this.

fine, i'll tell you what I really think. Im not trying to be homophobic but homosexuality is disgusting in my opinion. The bible isn't the only proof that homosexuality is wrong but just take a look around you. Almost every person and animal in the world is heterosexual because its natures way to produce youngspring. Also non of this homosexual hype existed hundreds of years ago. there was homosexuals back then but not as much precentage wise as today. what does that tell you. is homosexuality a natural thing that allows our earth to flourish with life? No. homosexuality is not bad but its not right either.

This is wrong on sooo many levels.

First of all, never ever use the words "Bible" and "Proof" in the same sentence. The bible is a translation of a translation. It's been edited, and skewed in hundreds of ways. Anyone who takes the Bible literally is an extremely amateur Christian.

Eor took care of the Homosexuality 100's of years ago argument. As for if homosexuality is natural... well, here's a list of mammals (meaning I decided to leave out reptiles, birds, and insects) that have shown homosexual behaviors. The numbers next to them are references from the Wikipedia entry I stole it from:

* African Buffalo[21]
* African Elephant[22]
* Agile Wallaby[23]
* Amazon River Dolphin(Boto)[19]
* American Bison[21][24]
* Antelope[25]
* Asian Elephant[22]
* Asiatic Lion[26]
* Asiatic Mouflon[27]
* Atlantic Spotted Dolphin[19]
* Australian Sea Lion[28]
* Barasingha[29]
* Barbary Sheep[30]
* Beluga[31]
* Bharal[32]
* Bighorn Sheep[30]
* Black Bear[33]
* Blackbuck[34]
* Black-footed Rock Wallaby[23]
* Black-tailed Deer[29]
* Bonnet Macaque[14]
* Bonobo[35][36][37]
* Bottlenose Dolphin[19][38]
* Bowhead Whale[19]
* Brazilian Guinea Pig[39]
* Bridled Dolphin[19]
* Brown Bear[33]
* Brown Capuchin[40]
* Brown Long-eared Bat[41]
* Brown Rat[42]
* Buffalo[30]
* Caribou[43]
* Cat (domestic)[44]
* Cattle (domestic)[45]
* Cheetah[26]
* Collared Peccary[46]
* Commerson's Dolphin[19]
* Common Brushtail Possum[47]
* Common Chimpanzee[48]
* Common Dolphin[31]
* Common Marmoset[49]
* Common Pipistrelle[50]
* Common Raccoon[51]
* Common Tree Shrew[52]
* Cotton-top Tamarin[53]
* Crab-eating Macaque[14]
* Crested Black Macaque[14]
* Cui[54]
* Dall's Sheep[30]
* Daubenton's Bat[41]
* Dog (domestic)[55]
* Doria's Tree Kangaroo[23]
* Dugong[56]
* Dwarf Cavy[39]
* Dwarf Mongoose[57]
* Eastern Cottontail Rabbit[58]
* Eastern Grey Kangaroo[23]
* Elk[29]
* Euro (a subspecies of wallaroo)[23]
* European Bison[21]
* Fallow Deer[29]
* False Killer Whale[19]
* Fat-tailed Dunnart[59]
* Fin Whale[19]
* Fox[60]
* Gazelle[25]
* Gelada Baboon[61]
* Giraffe[25][4][62]
* Goat (Domestic)[30]
* Golden Monkey[63]
* Gorilla[64]
* Grant's Gazelle[25]
* Grey-headed Flying Fox[41]
* Grey Seal[28]
* Grey squirrel[65]
* Grey Whale[19][66]
* Grey Wolf[67]
* Grizzly Bear[33]
* Guinea Pig (Domestic)[39]
* Hamadryas Baboon[68]
* Hamster (Domestic)[39]
* Hanuman Langur[69]
* Harbor Porpoise[70]
* Harbor Seal[28]
* Himalayan Tahr[71]
* Hoary Marmot[72]
* Horse (domestic)[73]
* Human (see Human sexual behavior)
* Indian Fruit Bat[41]
* Indian Muntjac[74]
* Indian Rhinoceros[75]
* Japanese Macaque[14]
* Javelina[76]
* Kangaroo Rat[42]
* Killer Whale[19]
* Koala[77]
* Kob[78][79]
* Larga Seal[28]
* Least Chipmunk[80]
* Lechwe[81]
* Lesser Bushbaby[82]
* Lion[26][83][84][85][86][87]
* Lion-tailed Macaque[14]
* Lion Tamarin[88]
* Little Brown Bat[41]
* Livingstone's Fruit Bat[41]
* Long-eared Hedgehog[89]
* Long-footed Tree Shrew[90]
* Macaque[91]
* Markhor[92]
* Marten[93]
* Matschie's Tree Kangaroo[23]
* Moco[94]
* Mohol Galago[82]
* Moor Macaque[14]
* Moose[95]
* Mountain Goat[30]
* Mountain Tree Shrew[96]
* Mountain Zebra[97]
* Mouse (domestic)[98]
* Moustached Tamarin[99]
* Mule Deer[29]
* Musk-ox[100]
* Natterer's Bat[41]
* New Zealand Sea Lion[28]
* Nilgiri Langur[101]
* Noctule[102]
* North American Porcupine[103]
* Northern Elephant Seal[28]
* Northern Fur Seal[28]
* Northern Quoll[104]
* Olympic Marmot[105]
* Orangutan[106]
* Orca[31]
* Pacific Striped Dolphin[19]
* Patas Monkey[107]
* Pere David's Deer[29]
* Pig (Domestic)[108]
* Pig-tailed Macaque[14]
* Plains Zebra[109]
* Polar Bear[33]
* Pretty-faced Wallaby[23]
* Proboscis Monkey[110]
* Pronghorn[111]
* Przewalski's Horse[112]
* Puku[113]
* Quokka[114]
* Rabbit[115]
* Raccoon Dog[116]
* Red Deer[29]
* Red Fox[117]
* Red Kangaroo[23]
* Red-necked Wallaby[23]
* Red Squirrel[118]
* Reeves's Muntjac[119]
* Reindeer[43]
* Rhesus Macaque[14]
* Right Whale[19]
* Rock Cavy[39]
* Rodrigues Fruit Bat[41]
* Roe Deer[29]
* Rufous Bettong[120]
* Rufous-naped Tamarin[53]
* Rufous Rat Kangaroo[23]
* Saddle-back Tamarin[53]
* Savanna Baboon[121]
* Sea Otter[122]
* Serotine Bat[41]
* Sheep (Domestic)[30][123]
* Siamang[124]
* Sika Deer[29]
* Slender Tree Shrew[125]
* Sooty Mangabey[126]
* Sperm Whale[19]
* Spinifex Hopping Mouse[127]
* Spinner Dolphin[19]
* Spotted Hyena[18][16]
* Spotted Seal[28]
* Squirrel Monkey[128]
* Striped Dolphin[19]
* Stuart's Marsupial Mouse[129]
* Stumptail Macaque[14]
* Swamp Deer[29]
* Swamp Wallaby[23]
* Takhi[112]
* Talapoin[130]
* Tammar Wallaby[23]
* Tasmanian Devil[131]
* Tasmanian Rat Kangaroo[23]
* Thinhorn Sheep[30]
* Thomson's Gazelle[25]
* Tiger[132]
* Tonkean Macaque[14]
* Tucuxi[133]
* Urial[134]
* Vampire Bat[41]
* Verreaux's Sifaka[135]
* Vervet[136]
* Vicuna[137]
* Walrus[138][139]
* Wapiti[140]
* Warthog[141]
* Waterbuck[142]
* Water Buffalo[30]
* Weeper Capuchin[40]
* Western Grey Kangaroo[23]
* West Indian Manatee[143]
* Whiptail Wallaby[23]
* White-faced Capuchin[40]
* White-fronted Capuchin[40]
* White-handed Gibbon[144]
* White-lipped Peccary[145]
* White-tailed Deer[29]
* Wild Cavy[39]
* Wild Goat[30]
* Wisent[21]
* Yellow-footed Rock Wallaby[23]
* Yellow-toothed Cavy[39]

homosexuality is not bad but its not right either.

I'm just gonna reiterate this quote, just because I have to ask... what?

 

[RDK]

The "sex is for making babies" argument is terrible. Having sex strengthens any relationship tenfold. I'd almost go as far as saying it's impossible to be in love with someone without it.

I'm in heavy agreement with this. It always boggles my mind when I hear about fundamentalist conservative couples who vow not to engage in any sort of intimate behavior (yes; this includes kissing) before marriage, let alone sex.

I realize that these people are few and far between, and that if they want to play the lottery with their lifetime commitments, that's fine, but really? How can you truly know a person if you don't engage in a deep level of intimacy?

What if you end up marrying that person and they're just awful in the sack? Or they have a lot stronger (or, conversely, lighter) sex drive than you? That's the stuff divorces and affairs are made of.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

I also want to make a comment on this.



This is wrong on sooo many levels.

First of all, never ever use the words "Bible" and "Proof" in the same sentence. The bible is a translation of a translation. It's been edited, and skewed in hundreds of ways. Anyone who takes the Bible literally is an extremely amateur Christian.

Eor took care of the Homosexuality 100's of years ago argument. As for if homosexuality is natural... well, here's a list of mammals (meaning I decided to leave out reptiles, birds, and insects) that have shown homosexual behaviors. The numbers next to them are references from the Wikipedia entry I stole it from:

* African Buffalo[21]
* African Elephant[22]
* Agile Wallaby[23]
* Amazon River Dolphin(Boto)[19]
* American Bison[21][24]
* Antelope[25]
* Asian Elephant[22]
* Asiatic Lion[26]
* Asiatic Mouflon[27]
* Atlantic Spotted Dolphin[19]
* Australian Sea Lion[28]
* Barasingha[29]
* Barbary Sheep[30]
* Beluga[31]
* Bharal[32]
* Bighorn Sheep[30]
* Black Bear[33]
* Blackbuck[34]
* Black-footed Rock Wallaby[23]
* Black-tailed Deer[29]
* Bonnet Macaque[14]
* Bonobo[35][36][37]
* Bottlenose Dolphin[19][38]
* Bowhead Whale[19]
* Brazilian Guinea Pig[39]
* Bridled Dolphin[19]
* Brown Bear[33]
* Brown Capuchin[40]
* Brown Long-eared Bat[41]
* Brown Rat[42]
* Buffalo[30]
* Caribou[43]
* Cat (domestic)[44]
* Cattle (domestic)[45]
* Cheetah[26]
* Collared Peccary[46]
* Commerson's Dolphin[19]
* Common Brushtail Possum[47]
* Common Chimpanzee[48]
* Common Dolphin[31]
* Common Marmoset[49]
* Common Pipistrelle[50]
* Common Raccoon[51]
* Common Tree Shrew[52]
* Cotton-top Tamarin[53]
* Crab-eating Macaque[14]
* Crested Black Macaque[14]
* Cui[54]
* Dall's Sheep[30]
* Daubenton's Bat[41]
* Dog (domestic)[55]
* Doria's Tree Kangaroo[23]
* Dugong[56]
* Dwarf Cavy[39]
* Dwarf Mongoose[57]
* Eastern Cottontail Rabbit[58]
* Eastern Grey Kangaroo[23]
* Elk[29]
* Euro (a subspecies of wallaroo)[23]
* European Bison[21]
* Fallow Deer[29]
* False Killer Whale[19]
* Fat-tailed Dunnart[59]
* Fin Whale[19]
* Fox[60]
* Gazelle[25]
* Gelada Baboon[61]
* Giraffe[25][4][62]
* Goat (Domestic)[30]
* Golden Monkey[63]
* Gorilla[64]
* Grant's Gazelle[25]
* Grey-headed Flying Fox[41]
* Grey Seal[28]
* Grey squirrel[65]
* Grey Whale[19][66]
* Grey Wolf[67]
* Grizzly Bear[33]
* Guinea Pig (Domestic)[39]
* Hamadryas Baboon[68]
* Hamster (Domestic)[39]
* Hanuman Langur[69]
* Harbor Porpoise[70]
* Harbor Seal[28]
* Himalayan Tahr[71]
* Hoary Marmot[72]
* Horse (domestic)[73]
* Human (see Human sexual behavior)
* Indian Fruit Bat[41]
* Indian Muntjac[74]
* Indian Rhinoceros[75]
* Japanese Macaque[14]
* Javelina[76]
* Kangaroo Rat[42]
* Killer Whale[19]
* Koala[77]
* Kob[78][79]
* Larga Seal[28]
* Least Chipmunk[80]
* Lechwe[81]
* Lesser Bushbaby[82]
* Lion[26][83][84][85][86][87]
* Lion-tailed Macaque[14]
* Lion Tamarin[88]
* Little Brown Bat[41]
* Livingstone's Fruit Bat[41]
* Long-eared Hedgehog[89]
* Long-footed Tree Shrew[90]
* Macaque[91]
* Markhor[92]
* Marten[93]
* Matschie's Tree Kangaroo[23]
* Moco[94]
* Mohol Galago[82]
* Moor Macaque[14]
* Moose[95]
* Mountain Goat[30]
* Mountain Tree Shrew[96]
* Mountain Zebra[97]
* Mouse (domestic)[98]
* Moustached Tamarin[99]
* Mule Deer[29]
* Musk-ox[100]
* Natterer's Bat[41]
* New Zealand Sea Lion[28]
* Nilgiri Langur[101]
* Noctule[102]
* North American Porcupine[103]
* Northern Elephant Seal[28]
* Northern Fur Seal[28]
* Northern Quoll[104]
* Olympic Marmot[105]
* Orangutan[106]
* Orca[31]
* Pacific Striped Dolphin[19]
* Patas Monkey[107]
* Pere David's Deer[29]
* Pig (Domestic)[108]
* Pig-tailed Macaque[14]
* Plains Zebra[109]
* Polar Bear[33]
* Pretty-faced Wallaby[23]
* Proboscis Monkey[110]
* Pronghorn[111]
* Przewalski's Horse[112]
* Puku[113]
* Quokka[114]
* Rabbit[115]
* Raccoon Dog[116]
* Red Deer[29]
* Red Fox[117]
* Red Kangaroo[23]
* Red-necked Wallaby[23]
* Red Squirrel[118]
* Reeves's Muntjac[119]
* Reindeer[43]
* Rhesus Macaque[14]
* Right Whale[19]
* Rock Cavy[39]
* Rodrigues Fruit Bat[41]
* Roe Deer[29]
* Rufous Bettong[120]
* Rufous-naped Tamarin[53]
* Rufous Rat Kangaroo[23]
* Saddle-back Tamarin[53]
* Savanna Baboon[121]
* Sea Otter[122]
* Serotine Bat[41]
* Sheep (Domestic)[30][123]
* Siamang[124]
* Sika Deer[29]
* Slender Tree Shrew[125]
* Sooty Mangabey[126]
* Sperm Whale[19]
* Spinifex Hopping Mouse[127]
* Spinner Dolphin[19]
* Spotted Hyena[18][16]
* Spotted Seal[28]
* Squirrel Monkey[128]
* Striped Dolphin[19]
* Stuart's Marsupial Mouse[129]
* Stumptail Macaque[14]
* Swamp Deer[29]
* Swamp Wallaby[23]
* Takhi[112]
* Talapoin[130]
* Tammar Wallaby[23]
* Tasmanian Devil[131]
* Tasmanian Rat Kangaroo[23]
* Thinhorn Sheep[30]
* Thomson's Gazelle[25]
* Tiger[132]
* Tonkean Macaque[14]
* Tucuxi[133]
* Urial[134]
* Vampire Bat[41]
* Verreaux's Sifaka[135]
* Vervet[136]
* Vicuna[137]
* Walrus[138][139]
* Wapiti[140]
* Warthog[141]
* Waterbuck[142]
* Water Buffalo[30]
* Weeper Capuchin[40]
* Western Grey Kangaroo[23]
* West Indian Manatee[143]
* Whiptail Wallaby[23]
* White-faced Capuchin[40]
* White-fronted Capuchin[40]
* White-handed Gibbon[144]
* White-lipped Peccary[145]
* White-tailed Deer[29]
* Wild Cavy[39]
* Wild Goat[30]
* Wisent[21]
* Yellow-footed Rock Wallaby[23]
* Yellow-toothed Cavy[39]



I'm just gonna reiterate this quote, just because I have to ask... what?

right, and where did u get this from again.. wikipedia. wow what a great source. u do know all this stuff can be edited by any moron who has a computer. also, dont trust that much articles from the internet, it isnt as reliable as say a newspaper article. however in nature the heterosexuals usualy completely dwarf homosexuals.

 

[RDK]

(If you're going to go the old 'wikipedia is not valid' route, then just look at the sources)

right, and where did u get this from again.. wikipedia. wow what a great source. u do know all this stuff can be edited by any moron who has a computer. also, dont trust that much articles from the internet, it isnt as reliable as say a newspaper article. however in nature the heterosexuals usualy completely dwarf homosexuals.

I now declare this thread irony-deficient.

 

[Xsyven]

right, and where did u get this from again.. wikipedia. wow what a great source. u do know all this stuff can be edited by any moron who has a computer. also, dont trust that much articles from the internet, it isnt as reliable as say a newspaper article. however in nature the heterosexuals usualy completely dwarf homosexuals.

Personally, I think it's a lot more reliable than the Bible. Which I'll say again, is a translation of a translation of rules that our country (assuming you'er also in the US) doesn't even follow.

And I've read these documented from many other sources. If you've ever actually used Wikipedia correctly, you'll notice that at the bottom of each page is a "reference" section that gives you a whooole list of websites that say the exact same thing. The article is sited very well.

Being gay myself, I can tell you, it's not just something I've chosen to be. If I could be normal like you, I would definitely try. But I can't. Girls gross me out. Meanwhile, I'm gonna do what makes me happy, which includes dating other men. Why you'd restrict me from being married to someone I love is cruel punishment for not being like the rest of the world.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

I'm in heavy agreement with this. It always boggles my mind when I hear about fundamentalist conservative couples who vow not to engage in any sort of intimate behavior (yes; this includes kissing) before marriage, let alone sex.

I realize that these people are few and far between, and that if they want to play the lottery with their lifetime commitments, that's fine, but really? How can you truly know a person if you don't engage in a deep level of intimacy?

What if you end up marrying that person and they're just awful in the sack? Or they have a lot stronger (or, conversely, lighter) sex drive than you? That's the stuff divorces and affairs are made of.

exactly how same sex relationships lead to inmoral sex. let me ask u this, why r there a girls washroom/changeroom and a boys washroom/changeroom. it is because of respect for the gift of sexuality. so inmoral sex is wrong. a reason why the church bans condoms.

 

[Eor]

In nature there are more heterosexuals. In nature there are also more non-whites then whites. If one can be used to say that the other is inferior, then you can use that to say white people are inferior.

Also, maybe you don't see it, but the number by the names let you see the source. Click the number, and it shows you the article that proves it.

the internet is also a completely valid medium of knowledge, as long as you stay off blogs and check sources.

edit: also I have no idea at all what your last post was suppose to mean. The different sexes of washrooms/changerooms are for respect of privacy because culturally we're more comfortrable with only members of our own sex possibly seeing us naked then otherwise.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

I'm in heavy agreement with this. It always boggles my mind when I hear about fundamentalist conservative couples who vow not to engage in any sort of intimate behavior (yes; this includes kissing) before marriage, let alone sex.

I realize that these people are few and far between, and that if they want to play the lottery with their lifetime commitments, that's fine, but really? How can you truly know a person if you don't engage in a deep level of intimacy?

What if you end up marrying that person and they're just awful in the sack? Or they have a lot stronger (or, conversely, lighter) sex drive than you? That's the stuff divorces and affairs are made of.

In nature there are more heterosexuals. In nature there are also more non-whites then whites. If one can be used to say that the other is inferior, then you can use that to say white people are inferior.

Also, maybe you don't see it, but the number by the names let you see the source. Click the number, and it shows you the article that proves it.

the internet is also a completely valid medium of knowledge, as long as you stay off blogs and check sources.

edit: also I have no idea at all what your last post was suppose to mean. The different sexes of washrooms/changerooms are for respect of privacy because culturally we're more comfortrable with only members of our own sex possibly seeing us naked then otherwise.

the world was meant for different cutures.

and why do u think that eor. anyway im getting bored of this topic. it was fun debating with you, im gonna debate about something else now and prove i can become a debater. i dont care if everyones against me, ill prove my points. anyway, goodnight people.

edit: Xsy how dare u diss the bible like that.

 

[Lixivium]

and why do u think that eor. anyway im getting bored of this topic. it was fun debating with you, im gonna debate about something else now and prove i can become a debater. i dont care if everyones against me, ill prove my points. anyway, goodnight people.

You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it means.

Edit: This topic should have been locked long ago. Nobody in PG can rationally debate against gay marriage, and even if they did, I suspect it would still degenerate into arguments (NOT debates) about their views on homosexuality as opposed to gay marriage. Like when RK brought that stuff up, even the mods started chiming in.

 

[Zero Beat]

Lixivium and the rest, try to leave comments like that^^^^^^^^ for profile messaging or PM'S. It gets threads locked, and especially threads that are going downhill as it is, like this one.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

this is the reason why i decided to stop debating on this thread.

 

[Crimson King]

right, and where did u get this from again.. wikipedia. wow what a great source. u do know all this stuff can be edited by any moron who has a computer. also, dont trust that much articles from the internet, it isnt as reliable as say a newspaper article. however in nature the heterosexuals usualy completely dwarf homosexuals.

And your source is the bible, which is even LESS credible because at least Wikipedia has a space for external sources. The bible's sole claim to credibility is that it says it is the word of god. Other than the fact that plenty of the historical stuff in it is just plain made-up, most of the morals are antiquated.

Seriously, were you just trolling this topic for fun?

 

[BOB SAGET!]

You would notice I used more than the bible as proof. Also not everything in the bible is made up. Plus the question the person who started this thread put in was how you feel about homosexuality. I put how I feel and why.

 

[Lovely]

Banning gay marriage won't stop gay people. I don't see what could come out of banning gay marriage.

I'm with this post, there is no stopping that fact that some gays or lesbians will love each other someday. Though in my mind I'm against gay marriage because my belief that the more people get married and love the same sex, the less children will be born, (unless someone uses a way to make another child without having sex), but the only way I'm for gay or lesbian marriage is for true love only.

 

[Zero Beat]

Ah, if it isnt Crismon King, another senator/moderator who hates my guts for some unknown reason. You just love being arrogant to me don't you. Well if you acutally took the time to read the arguement instead being mean. You would notice I used more than the bible as proof. Also not everything in the bible is made up. Plus the question the person who started this thread put in was how you feel about homosexuality. I put how I feel and why.

Bob, I told you to ignore posts that you feel are personal. Avoid ad hominems and especially towards moderators, it gets you in trouble fast.

This is your last warning from me, I don't know what Crimson King actually plans to do with you.

but the only way I'm for gay or lesbian marriage is for true love only.

Can you define real love for us? Is that something that you can keep tabs on for everybody?

 

[Lovely]

Can you define real love for us? Is that something that you can keep tabs on for everybody?

I view true love as follow:

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.

If I can see all those connect with any marriage then I'll define that as true love. Marriages in general in this time line, (the year 2003 and over), is nearly always a false marriage because both supporters can't keep up with supporting 75% or higher of both of their life styles and end up divorcing over a high amount of disagreement with each other. This applies to both straight marriage and gay marriage.

 

[Xsyven]

Though in my mind I'm against gay marriage because my belief that the more people get married and love the same sex, the less children will be born

...you know, legalizing gay marriage will not turn people gay.

 

[BOB SAGET!]

Lovely said that less children will be born not that people will turn gay.

 

[|RK|]

*sigh*

@SAGET: Which means that more people would turn gay, because gay people cannot produce children. With someone of the same gender.

(How old are you?)

 

[BOB SAGET!]

@RK: Lovely said that the more people get married and love the same sex the less children will be born. People wouldn't turn gay they'd come out of the closet and actually marry becasue there alowed to if it's legalized. So no one would turn gay.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I don't see what age has to do with anything.

Yeah, people won't "turn gay" if gay marriage is made legal...

This is off topic, but I don't see what's wrong with less babies being born, the Earth needs less people, we're overpopulating the world, just look at China for example.