Gay, ****, Homo and similar words...

[ZeldaFreak0309]

Yeah I like the sociopath part.

LOL

ok. im glad we settled that.

Edit because I feel slightly guilty about not even attempting to explain why your opinions are ****:

Language doesn't exist in a vacuum. Words, and the power they hold, are informed by history and by culture. The distinction between a slur and a 'bad word' is that slurs are words that have historically and/or currently are used to oppress a marginalized group of people. They're words that have been used to remind these groups of people that they don't belong, that they're inferior, that they're somehow lesser human beings. And so, unlike normal 'bad words,' they carry with them a weight and power that "normal" insults don't have.

I'm going to guess that you're a straight white male that has literally never experienced any type of systemic oppression in any form. You probably have also never actually attempted to empathize or understand the experiences of people different from you. You are therefore completely oblivious to the fact that women, people of color, and gay people are subject, every single ****ing day, to reminders that they don't belong, that they're inferior, that they don't deserve the treatment that "normal people" (aka straight white males) do. Look at the demographic makeup of Congress, look at lack of representation of minorities in the media, look up the Bechdel Test. Language exists WITHIN ALL OF THIS.

And so, when you throw out ****ty words like "gay" "****" and the N word casually, all you're actually doing is perpetuating a culture that continues to marginalize people who are different from you. You're creating a toxic environment in which only non-marginalized groups of people can feel comfortable. I don't care if your black friend says he's okay with you using the N word. That's HIS decision, and that's fine. But it doesn't make it okay for you to then force that decision on EVERYONE ELSE. The oppressed group, and ONLY the oppressed group, has the right to reclaim words that have been used against them. Not you.

But yes, "free speech" and "First Amendment" are things. You can continue spewing slurs if you want. But realize that you are being a ****ty ****ing person when you do.

 

[FirestormNeos]

JIGGLYPUFF SUCKS.

There, problem solved. Sensitive Feelings are left un-murdered, and mouthy teenagers still get to swear. Everyone wins.

As long as I retain the rights to use the word *** i'm happy
^think bundle of sticks since it got censored

Oak?

 

[Shadic]

Personally, I think adults (Or anybody past the age of 16 who regularly goes out in public) should actively try and not sound like a bunch of middle school kids.

While the less-intelligent language does seem to be receding, I'd prefer it happened faster.

 

[enCouRaging Bear]

pretty sure jigglypuff came out of the closet already its alright guys

 

[Wretched]

I just read the last part of your post where you said "if you want to continue using slurs" and then I knew I didn't want to read the rest because you've clearly made a few assumptions.

I am happy you typed all of that up for nothing, though.

 

[Isatis]

Why is it humorous though? Surely it's not about humor anymore when many people in the gaming community just toss the word out 5 times in a sentence. It not only serves to alienate, but it also doesn't have any shock value... which is what people are *attempting* to exploit when they use the word. If ones idea of humor is to toss out racial slurs and **** occasionally to "shock" an audience... you aren't funny. It's not original. It's just the epitome of immature at the expense of others. Again, like I said before, why do you have the decency to think of others when it comes to slurs against homosexuals, but refuse to have empathy towards **** victims?

Nailed it. I barely even notice people going "that's gay" lately, unless it's something like camping, but "****" is still used a lot in Smash and that's the thing I *really* don't understand still.

 

[ZeldaFreak0309]

I just read the last part of your post where you said "if you want to continue using slurs" and then I knew I didn't want to read the rest because you've clearly made a few assumptions.

I am happy you typed all of that up for nothing, though.

That's cute that you thought that post was only meant for you.

 

[Kyu Puff]

I just read the last part of your post where you said "if you want to continue using slurs" and then I knew I didn't want to read the rest because you've clearly made a few assumptions.

I am happy you typed all of that up for nothing, though.

So, you read everything except the last sentence?

 

[Wretched]

Well, you did quote me. Also, no, kyu, I just scrolled to the bottom to look for the tl;dr.

Also, Mookie, we're not allowed to use these words because they CAN excite memories in **** victims: Scream, cry, pentration, sodomy, anus, butt, ****, violate, assnihilate, assassinate, any word with ass in it, forcible, intercourse, sex, etc.

Since those words could possibly be heard by a **** victim, and they could possibly incite memories, we can never use them. They've become forbidden because of their ability to be associated with bad experiences. If you want to make a complete list of all of the words I can't use because it might offend anyone who is slightly different than me, I'd love to go through that and make sure I remove those words from my vocabulary. In the mean time, stop being a whiny *****.

 

[Kyu Puff]

Here's a list for you: ****

If you used a bunch of those words together, yeah there might be a problem, especially if you are intentionally trying to conjure **** imagery. But nobody was talking about sex words. You are seriously grasping at straws, distorting the argument to the point of absurdity.

In the mean time, stop being a whiny *****.

Again, who is the whiny *****: the person who wants to make sure everybody feels comfortable and safe, or the person who refuses to stop saying a single word, knowing that it could hurt the people around him, because it "infringes on his right to free speech"?

 

[MookieRah]

Well, you did quote me. Also, no, kyu, I just scrolled to the bottom to look for the tl;dr.

Such maturity you show at every turn. Claiming that we aren't reading your posts or understanding your side, yet you openly acknowledge that you aren't reading ours. Btw, I've read all your posts, that's why I usually quote individual sections and tackle your argument on a point by point basis. The others clearly have read your posts as well, because they too are attacking your argument far more than you as a person.

I think that it's rather pointless to argue anymore with Wretched on the issue. He is not going to change his opinions and at this point he's shown his level of understanding in regards to the issue. I don't think anyone else reading here could learn anything else from us debating with him.

"infringes on his right to free speech"?

The irony being that he is using sexist language in an attempt to emasculate me, and to squelch my right to free speech.

 

[ZeldaFreak0309]

The irony being that he is using sexist language in an attempt to emasculate me, and to squelch my right to free speech.

It'd be hilarious if I didn't also find his whole attitude toward this completely sickening.

...

Sigh


Look, Wretched, I realize opinions about these sorts of things don't exactly change overnight. But I encourage you to actually read what we've written and give it some thought. Multiple people in this community thought this was important enough of an issue to write lengthy responses to you, that should at least be some indication that you might not be in the right.


AITE IM OUT OF THIS THREAD, PEACE

 

[Arcadia157]

For your close group of friends who you play with all the time, if they're comfortable with it, then say it. Tell them how you just ***** that kid so hard (LOL that sounds so bad) or explain how gay he was playing. But don't use those words in front of people you don't really know that well. It's just common courtesy at that point.

 

[Wretched]

Mookie:
“Hey Wretched, I saw that episode of Penn & Teller Bull**** too.”
I have not seen this episode you speak of.

“Btw, you aren't being cool, you are being a huge ***.”
How is expressing my true feelings about a matter being a huge ass? And was it really necessary to insult me? How can you say that you never want to use certain words ever because it offends people, yet you’re willing to straight up try to offend someone?

“Words are more the just tones in the air... they are audio symbols of ideas.”
No… They are just tones in the air. We give them meaning and context, as I explained earlier, and the context and tone are what matter, not the words themselves.

“Slurs are words created for the sole use to put down a group of people, and have been often used in conjunction with physical oppression.”
The only way slurs should be offensive is if someone uses it to hurt someone. I know SO MANY PEOPLE who are comfortable with the “N” word. While it has a horrible history and connotations, when used in a positive environment in a positive context without the intention to harm, there’s no issue. As I stated before, you can use any word in a negative context, and people will associate it with bad ideas.
“Meanwhile, talking of things like ****, or using racial slurs... that has a fairly high rate of triggering or offending someone.”
I agree. There are some words that you just CANNOT use in a group of fresh people. Society has given the words too many negative connotations. However, I don’t think we should constantly scrutinize new words, such as gay/****/homo. There are a few key words that you really wouldn’t use unless you were in a tight-knit group of friends and you knew that nobody would misunderstand your intentions. I can only think of a handful of those words, though, and gay/****/homo are not in that list. Anyone can be offended by any word if they want, and as I have repeated, any word can be offensive in the right context. If the words gay were used to demean, demoralize, or hurt someone because of their sexuality, I would absolutely tell someone to stop it. However, when the words are being used in a friendly context, I just do not believe that we should avoid saying a huge, arbitrary list of words as they gain more and more negative connotations.

“So you just admitted that the way you use the words gay, homo, and etc. are associated with bad. I doubt you would be as supportive on this issue if you were gay, or if you were gay and were a victim of ****.”
Well, I am a heterosexual, however in high school, I had long hair, and when I moved to a rural area, my sexuality was questioned and the slurs were used against me. I found them offensive at the time because they were being used to hurt. The intention of the sayer was to hurt me, therefore I was offended. Hm… Weird, huh?

“I hope one day we can be mature enough to respect other human beings enough to just avoid using a tiny minute fraction of language that was intentionally designed to put others down.”
Ah, and now we reach the apex. The point where you realize that you completely ignored my argument about it not being about the words themselves, but the tone, context, and intention. We have a few taboo words. Stop trying to add to the list. Next year it’s going to be “penetration, assnihilation, and buttdevastation.”

I'll acknowledge you other silly banana's later. Let me say, though, that I am thoroughly disappointed that this small group of 3-4 people is liking each others posts, and even going as far to say that "we share this opinion, so you're wrong." Seems to be the format of almost every thread now.

 

[rawrimamonster]

I'd say stop acting like a child and stop giving words meaning by reacting to them but defensive people usually respond with something along the lines of "WELL IM GONNA SPOUT WORDS BACK AT YOU HOW DOES IT FEEL NOT SO GREAT HUH?!" like its supposed to mean anything.

Being straightforward though (look away now if you get all hurt feelings easily), I have gay friends that say "******" or "that's ghey" when they hate things, a word is only as hurtful as the meaning you put behind it. We're not in preschool anymore, we're not on the playground and you're not getting bullied, stop letting the words have bad meaning. If I say you're playing the game like a *** then it means I dont like the way you're playing, not that your smash skills demonstrate your ability as a man to suck penises. Hell, I'm white and I've been told I play smash 64 like a ***, ppl just say things for the sake of saying things to say it, not to hurt feelings.This is especially true if they're mad and just slip with something they're obviously not supposed to say. I honestly feel though that this community has seen it all by now and should be beyond reacting to these petty things...

i feel that's a /thread right here, but feel free to call me troll and say I'm wrong.

Edit: lol at even the first 3 letters of the N-word being censored, damn.

 

[Wretched]

I am in full agreement.

 

[Jabejazz]

I call my gay friends faglord all the time. They find it funny.

As far as gaming goes, instead of saying "playing gay", I use "playing lame", which is, I believe, the "correct" term, so to speak.
Never found the appeal in using **** though. Not repulsed by it either, but there are other/better sounding options.

"Get rekt ****lord" da bes.

 

[Superspright]

If you're saying **** and gay all the time you haven't gotten out of high-school, and if you are defending it you are clearly oblivious to the impact.

 

[Nintendude]

I think if anything, we should be removing these words from our tournament vocabulary for the sake of adding some professionalism to the scene.

 

[Wretched]

Actually, I graduated in May of 2012 and I managed to use my entire vocabulary during my 4 years, however I never got into fights nor was I ever reprimanded by the faculty for my language, because when I used it, it was never in a negative context. I said **** to my spanish/english teacher (small school) like twice in one day and he didn't care... because it wasn't in a negative context. It's funny how someone who teaches the very foundation of our language would be able to grasp that.

 

[Pizzaman]

smashers are getting too soft nowadays.

 

[ph00tbag]

I agree. There are some words that you just CANNOT use in a group of fresh people. Society has given the words too many negative connotations. However, I don’t think we should constantly scrutinize new words, such as gay/****/homo. There are a few key words that you really wouldn’t use unless you were in a tight-knit group of friends and you knew that nobody would misunderstand your intentions. I can only think of a handful of those words, though, and gay/****/homo are not in that list. Anyone can be offended by any word if they want, and as I have repeated, any word can be offensive in the right context. If the words gay were used to demean, demoralize, or hurt someone because of their sexuality, I would absolutely tell someone to stop it. However, when the words are being used in a friendly context, I just do not believe that we should avoid saying a huge, arbitrary list of words as they gain more and more negative connotations.

I have two issues here. First off, at the very least, gay is definitely a slur, and you should not be surprised or personally offended if someone tells you that the word has offended them. By the same token, **** is explicit reference to the worst thing one human being can do to another, bar none. Let's start from the assumption that the ways these words are frequently used by the competitive gaming community as a whole are not acceptable in mixed company, a point that you agree applies to a list of other, undefined words (although I really have to assume this is a very short list considering **** isn't on it). This brings me to the second main issue that I have.

Now, you are willing to hold off from your first choice of word on these words, whatever they are, around mixed company. While the consideration is laudable, in a sense, it worries me that anyone's first choice in a relaxed environment would be a word that has huge potential to hurt someone at the deepest levels of their psyche (this is specific reference to the word, ****, btw), and that when casually challenged on that, you immediate jump to decry your freedom of speech being infringed or something. Call it pattern recognition, but when I see someone cry "oppression" when politely asked not to marginalize someone, it's almost always been because they equate status quo with equilibrium. Basically, the gains in regards to equal rights for everyone so far outstrip the losses you take in choosing a couple different words that are less likely to marginalize others, that you may as well not be losing anything at all. And besides, if the words are so meaningless, why cling to your right to use them at all?

 

[Xyzz]

gay is definitely a slur

What now? Gay is most definitely not inherently a slur, but rather just a synonym for "homosexual". It's certainly possible to use it in a derogatory way, although it's really stupid. I've always wondered how spamming a lot of bairs (or whatever) would have anything to do with wanting to stick one's *peep* into another mans *poop* (in case anybody misses the cringeworthy pun, this sentence should be enough to point it out) and what the hell would be bad / wrong about that anyways...

 

[rawrimamonster]

If you're saying **** and gay all the time you haven't gotten out of high-school, and if you are defending it you are clearly oblivious to the impact.

I actually never say those things a lot myself, I might get screwed over in a game I'm playing and say "that's gay as hell" but that's about it, I don't carry on about it. I'm 27 , too old to act like that. But I'm not gonna strip a word I use meaninglessly from my vocab on the off chance someone who is oversensitive to a word not even directed at them might hear it. There's a large difference between dropping FA- bombs and saying "that's ghey", that's how I see it. As far as ****...same thing applies, it just has less out of context uses because the known uses are closer to the source meaning of the word. Still though if I see someone gettin ****ed up ima probably say they got *****.

tl;dr casual non direct use of words =\= outright calling someone something you shouldn't directly. It's all about reasonability in use.

 

[Kyu Puff]

“Btw, you aren't being cool, you are being a huge ***.”
How is expressing my true feelings about a matter being a huge ***? And was it really necessary to insult me? How can you say that you never want to use certain words ever because it offends people, yet you’re willing to straight up try to offend someone?

You still aren't getting it. This is not about offending people. You're allowed to get frustrated and you're allowed to be rude to people (maybe not the best thing for this discussion, but you can get over it). There's a huge difference between calling someone a name because you disagree with them, and calling someone a name because of who they are. When he called you an ass he was frustrated with you, and you knew that, so you probably didn't think, "wow, he called me an ass, so I must be an ass"--you took it with a grain of salt. But if he was insulting you because of who you are--your identity, your existence, things you can't change about yourself--it would be harder to recover from.

“Words are more the just tones in the air... they are audio symbols of ideas.”
No… They are just tones in the air. We give them meaning and context, as I explained earlier, and the context and tone are what matter, not the words themselves.

No, why don't you take a cognitive psychology class and stop pseudo-philosophizing. The semantic meaning of words and their physical representations are closely related in memory; when you read or hear a word, the meaning of that word is activated automatically. We don't give words meaning, our mental representations of words that are informed by language and life experiences give them meaning. So read Prog's post or imagine a kid who was bullied throughout their childhood for his or her sexual orientation. If a word has been used to insult you directly, by people who make you feel like **** for who you are, I would imagine it's pretty difficult to brush off, even if it's used in a "friendly context".

Even more generally, imagine if someone started using your name to mean "ignorant mother****er". At first you'd probably be taken aback, but when usage became more widespread, you'd probably come to accept the new meaning and maybe even start using it yourself. But that doesn't mean that you can ignore it on an emotional, gut-reaction level. You might recognize that most of the people saying "that dude is such a Wretched" have never even met you, so they can't possibly mean it as an insult toward you, but you still know that the word was derived from your name, and that's not something you can ignore.

If the words gay were used to demean, demoralize, or hurt someone because of their sexuality, I would absolutely tell someone to stop it. However, when the words are being used in a friendly context, I just do not believe that we should avoid saying a huge, arbitrary list of words as they gain more and more negative connotations.

Huge, arbitrary list? First of all, it's not huge. Avoid words that specifically target a group of people (i.e. slurs). Besides gay, homo, etc., there are most likely very few words you use that fall into this category. Avoid tossing around the word **** when you're not actually talking about ****, because it makes light of something that brings back horrific memories/emotional pain for some people. So the list is probably ~5 words long, out of like, 200,000 words in the English language? That's not huge by any measure. And arbitrary? We've just spent pages of text trying to explain to you why using these words is really insensitive and stupid. And on top of that, it's unnecessary. Why is it so hard for you to replace a few words out of your vocabulary with words that are less harmful? Is your own personal convenience really more important to you than the feelings of those around you?

 

[ph00tbag]

What now? Gay is most definitely not inherently a slur, but rather just a synonym for "homosexual".

Is it used to marginalize a group of people based on who they are?

That's the litmus test.

 

[Xyzz]

Imho it's not, but rather just nonjudgmental word referring to a certain character trait / whatever a person might have, like "nice" or "bald".

edit: gah, nice is probably judgmental :D

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

get trashed
get wrecked
get dunked
get your lunch money taken
get on my level
get owned
get schooled
get ****ed up

 

[Strong Badam]

i like "get ****ed up" quite a bit

 

[PhantasyStar]

Is it really not that hard to just not say certain words in a public area when it's been brought up not to? Just use another term that won't cause a problem and the matters solved...

 

[ph00tbag]

Imho it's not, but rather just nonjudgmental word referring to a certain character trait / whatever a person might have, like "nice" or "bald".

Many people use it as a synonym for "undesirable," though. This isn't really something you can deny; you can hear it when people talk about gay to describe playstyles they don't want to fight against. The association between that connotation and the fact it means, "homosexual," is marginalizing to homosexuals whenever you say a playstyle you dislike fighting against is gay.

It's all well and good that gay can be used as a neutral descriptor, but that's a product of the reclamation movement--a movement that's undermined every time you use "gay" to mean "undesirable."

 

[TheAllTomato]

New to the smash competitive scene and I was fairly taken aback by how often words like "gay" "***" and "****" are thrown around, but these arguments supporting use of these words are just silly. I'd like to initially point out that half of your arguments are " oh well we should be allowed to say whatever we want freedom of speech blah blah"... you all realize that you're using NONE of these words correctly right? At some point in history someone decided that "hey lets say gay/*** synonymously for bad" and then others started using it. In a world where we are STILL fighting for equal rights for the homosexual community maybe step back and think about why using "gay" or "homo" as "bad" isn't the brightest of ideas? It's not the 1800's anymore, I'm sure you can see why. Just go ahead and commandeer another word that doesn't relate to a group of people, "cookie" could literally catch on as the next "bad" and no one is getting offended by that.

"****" I have some mega issues with too, idk who the first person who thought "hey lets start saying **** commonly to completely take away from the fact it is a completely life destroying event and make it sound like it's no big deal" was but oh man if I ever found them.. Anyways, REALLY? Maybe you and your friend group may not have problems of the word, maybe you have the mental capacity to use the word while still being able to understand what a horrific thing it is (although if you're throwing it around like it's nothing like many do I incerely doubt that) but are you going to deny that that affects peoples mentalities towards the subject? Many (especially in internet cultures) literally use "I'm going to **** you" as a threat directly to people, especially to victims of **** itself. Do you not think that the casual use of the word may have impeded the pure gravity of the act? It honestly comes off purely barbaric and gives any community that uses it (in this case the smash community) the most hostile feeling.

Your free speech isn't being taken away, you're just taking actual issues and using them commonly and being a total ****ing ass about it. If you don't want to use english properly still then make up your own words that aren't offensive. This isn't a hard subject.

Unrelated note being new to the community I don't know too many people within, I'm a friendly guy shoot me a PM!

 

[Scar]

i try my best to never ever say any of those words

 

[dkuo]

whoahohoh now guys this thread is getting way too edgy for me
lets pull back the aggro feels and namecalling


anyways i guess there's more to the subject than what i posted earlier...imo:

i believe people are free and clear to use whatever vocabulary they want considering the law says so and such. im not about to stop you from using whatever word i might feel is controversial. however, pls dont get mad when people call you rude for using controversial words - when the majority of people find you rude based on your vocabulary...surprise, majority vote says you are rude. besides, it's your decision to do this and thus the consequences are your own responsibility.

also, i believe there's no particularly solid reason for using most of these words over perfectly applicable substitutes, other than 'it feels good when my mouth pronounces these syllables' or something equally far-fetched. the only (barely, imo) acceptable reason is that youve taken it upon yourself to valiantly push the boundaries of publicly accepted vocabulary...by all means go ahead, but again dont get mad when people call you rude. hell, thats literally what youre trying to do, increase the average rudeness level of the world - if anything you should feel proud of yourself? iunno

anywho, for the purpose of drawing a broader audience, i agree that clean & professional vocabulary generally wins over vulgarity. at minimum, cleaner commentary can project a more professional image of the community in tournament videos, livestreams, etc. it's understandable that not everyone in the community will be able (or even be willing) to do this, but i think the more people that put in effort to adjust their vocabulary during tournament the better - it can go a long way too, considering that vocabulary amongst smashers is generally picked up from each other to begin with anyways. i imagine that setting a precedent of clean vocabulary can be an effective way to get others to follow suit, and the result can be an overall more approachable scene for the general public. yes there may be losses from this, but if we end up repelling people who cant stick in a community simply because we're not vulgar enough, i think its a reasonable trade-off

 

[MookieRah]

How is expressing my true feelings about a matter being a huge ***? And was it really necessary to insult me? How can you say that you never want to use certain words ever because it offends people, yet you’re willing to straight up try to offend someone?

Because calling someone an ass because they seem devoid of empathy in an area is more a matter of fact than a baseless insult for one. Secondly, using "bad" or "curse" words /= using slurs or the word ****.

I know SO MANY PEOPLE who are comfortable with the “N” word.

So because you know a few guys that are ok with it that means that you can safely say that everyone is ok with it? You do know that your friends do not represent the entirety of the black community right?

I call my gay friends ***lord all the time. They find it funny.

Same as with Wretched, your group of friends /= everyone in the gay community.

We have a few taboo words. Stop trying to add to the list. Next year it’s going to be “penetration, assnihilation, and buttdevastation.”

Ah, the slippery slope argument. That one never gets old. I guess we should never progress in any area for fear that we might go too far right? You do realize that most of your opinion is being carried by illogical fallacies right? And no, as everyone who opposes your view has clearly stated, this list won't ever include the random words you toss out. Unless of course you are creating words with the sole intent and purpose to marginalize someone or invoke **** imagery, it's fine.

I'll acknowledge you other silly banana's later. Let me say, though, that I am thoroughly disappointed that this small group of 3-4 people is liking each others posts, and even going as far to say that "we share this opinion, so you're wrong."

Oh please. Distinguish your side from ours on this issue. You readily agree with anyone that is on your side as well. Don't even pretend this to not be the case. The difference is that you are on a side in which you claim language shouldn't hurt anyone, or doesn't invoke thought in someone... This has been proven scientifically not to be the case. You have likely never been marginalized/oppressed in your life. You seem to think that because some people questioned your sexuality one time in your life equates to the struggles of an actually being homosexual and dealing with everything that entails. Your sense of self-entitlement is so strong that when others point out that you are using oppressive language that you yourself feel that you are being oppressed...

 

[FirestormNeos]

For purposes beyond our control, the commissioner of the Swear Police has been murdered by penguin assassins is no longer capable of monitoring this thread.

As a result, the word Tastesthesupersnuffleufucussundaytoday is contraband.

We apologize for the inconvenience, and thank you for your cooperation. Hail Magikarp.

 

[ZeldaFreak0309]

Well, I am a heterosexual, however in high school, I had long hair, and when I moved to a rural area, my sexuality was questioned and the slurs were used against me. I found them offensive at the time because they were being used to hurt. The intention of the sayer was to hurt me, therefore I was offended. Hm… Weird, huh?

I wish I could quit you

Okay, so it's clear to me now that you've never engaged in any sort of conversation regarding privilege, social justice, and minority movements because otherwise you wouldn't even attempt to use this anecdote as an argument. There's a fundamental difference between what you think we're arguing about and what we're actually arguing about. I guess it's not exactly fair to try to explain why your stance on this is bad without also explaining the difference.

When we say words like 'gay' and '****' "marginalize" people, that's NOT a synonym for "insult" or "hurt the feelings of." It is MUCH MUCH more than that. It is something that you (who I'm like 100% certain now is a straight white male) have never experienced. Let's take your anecdote as an example.

So some kids in high school were mean to you and called you gay based off your appearance. Your feelings were hurt. And I'm saying this in the sincerest way possible--I'm sorry you had to go through that! But consider this: after that engagement, you turned around and went back into a world that is CONSTANTLY VALIDATING YOUR EXISTENCE. You, being not ACTUALLY gay, could go back into the world and see a culture that values straight people like you, where being heterosexual is the norm, where everything about THE WAY YOU WERE BORN is validated. You got over it.

Now consider if you were actually gay, and some kids in high school called you 'gay.' Your feelings are hurt, first because you're thinking "Yes I am gay, is there something wrong with that??". But it gets worse from there. You go back into the world, and you realize that hey, everything in my environment is also telling me that being gay is not okay. You go back into a world where "cool" men are defined by how many women they can sleep with, to a world where gay marriage is still largely ILLEGAL, and to a world where at Smash tournaments, people casually throw out the word "gay" to mean "lame" or "boring." When everything around you is a constant reminder that the WAY YOU WERE BORN IS NOT OKAY, it is MUCH harder to just 'get over it.' You start to actually question whether or not the world is right, and you begin thinking that maybe you do deserve to be treated worse than everyone else. THAT'S what we mean when we say your language is marginalizing.

Does that make sense??? The intention DOESN'T MATTER here. I can believe that you're someone who thinks they're open-minded and progressive and not bigoted, but you've never even experienced what marginalized groups of people have to experience. Your entire existence has been constantly validated by society, which means you've never had to question whether or not the way you were born is okay. That's not your fault, but it IS your fault when you refuse to drop a few words from your vocabulary at the expense of people who already feel unwelcome in society, and give them a reason to stay away.

 

[Jabejazz]

Same as with Wretched, your group of friends /= everyone in the gay community.

I never said otherwise. Way to take things out of context.

 

[MookieRah]

I never said otherwise. Way to take things out of context.

I apologize for that, I meant to quote this below, but I made that post at different times so when I skimmed back through to lift the quote I grabbed the wrong one.

I have gay friends that say "******" or "that's ghey" when they hate things, a word is only as hurtful as the meaning you put behind it.

 

[MrHazuki]

hell, thats literally what youre trying to do, increase the average rudeness level of the world

Rudeness is a relative term. By getting today's rude terms to be more accepted, and less rude, he is actually decreasing the rudeness. That's how I see it.

I have to agree with both sides here, but I feel there is a difference between gay and ****. Gay should be all about love, whereas **** has absolutely no positive connotation. Not the same thing.

A childish thought:
Gay smashers can actually prove the public wrong by playing flashy (by today's nomenclature: non-gay) as hell. I look forward to that day. :D