~Gardevoir~ Most Awesome Shield-Caster Ever. Or so.

[adumbrodeus]

They are in the same category ITEMS! The reason they are not together is because they meet different character criteria, Pokeballs = Pokemon, AT's = Every other Nintendo character.

But Items were not deconfirmed, only a subcategory of items known as assist trophies.

And again with the deductions about how other people think of pokeballs, that's not proof of impossibility.

The demo is not there to be interpreted, the demo holds what's officially in the game, Gardevoir is in the demo, thus she is deconfirmed.

We've been through this already, everything the demo has is officially in the game, but the demo does not necessarily have everything that's in the game (in fact it almost never does).

Since there has not been any confirmation that a character cannot have multiple roles (exempting assist trophies, and in the previous game there was proof that they could, just not proof they could be in any other role and be playable), it's not a deconfirmation.

The only reason they are not the same is because they don't have the same type of characters inside, they don't need to be confirmed by Sakurai to be the same just so that you understand it.

No, they need to be confirmed as such for it to be a deconfirmation, it's that simple, anything less is just highly unlikely.

I repeat, anything less then the an official statement (through any of the means possible, including final release, dojo, etc) is not a deconfirmation. That's pretty much the definition of deconfirmation.

sorry I need to step in here just because I think I can sever the last bit of ground left on your argument:

he never explicitly told us they were the same. HOWEVER it has been seen in vids that they act exactly the same.

Again, that does not prove that they are the same for the purposes of deconfirmation.

He never told us that a sword reached farther than a fist either... some things are just meant to be inferred for the sake of not cluttering the website with pages upon pages of stating the obvious.

No, he did not. But they've never been exactly forthcoming with the hitbox data have they?

For instance, that jigglypuff's pound attack has an extremely large hitbox as compared to the actual size of it's fist on-screen, it seemed obvious that the hitbox was jigglypuff's fist, right?


If you check the hitbox data, you'll see tons of similar differences between what the hitbox appears to be, and what it actually is.

And it's not like all sword attacks have larger range, they just tend to do, so for an individual attack, it's chance, it's likely that a sword attack will have longer range, but not guaranteed.



The fact is, Sakurai is just not giving us all the info, sure he's given us plenty of hits, but just like we cannot know the full hitboxes of moves until we play the game to death, true deconfirmations for every character that could potentially be in smash are just not going to happen until we get the game, we'll have to settle for probabilities until then.

 

[vesperview]

But Items were not deconfirmed, only a subcategory of items known as assist trophies.

And again with the deductions about how other people think of pokeballs, that's not proof of impossibility.

Again only YOU would question the "probability" of Pokeballs being deconfirmations, plus Sakurai never said either that ONLY characters in the assist trophies section were officially deconfirmed, Pokeballs are the same as Assist Trophies in that matter, no pokemon in a pokeball can be playable and in a pokeball at the same time, I bet my life on it.

We've been through this already, everything the demo has is officially in the game, but the demo does not necessarily have everything that's in the game (in fact it almost never does).

Since there has not been any confirmation that a character cannot have multiple roles (exempting assist trophies, and in the previous game there was proof that they could, just not proof they could be in any other role and be playable), it's not a deconfirmation.

Of course it doesn't have all of the things that the game has, it's probably missing half the roster and most stages, yet only you question that what is actually in the demo still has a chance to be reconsidered or changed, which as I've said is a waste of time and money for the company.

No, they need to be confirmed as such for it to be a deconfirmation, it's that simple, anything less is just highly unlikely.

I repeat, anything less then the an official statement (through any of the means possible, including final release, dojo, etc) is not a deconfirmation. That's pretty much the definition of deconfirmation.

They don't need to be confirmed as such because they are, so unless Sakurai says Pokeballs are official deconfirmations Groudon and Muchlax still have a chance too? Please!

 

[adumbrodeus]

Again only YOU would question the "probability" of Pokeballs being deconfirmations, plus Sakurai never said either that ONLY characters in the assist trophies section were officially deconfirmed, Pokeballs are the same as Assist Trophies in that matter, no pokemon in a pokeball can be playable and in a pokeball at the same time, I bet my life on it.

Actually, he did.

Assist Trophies allow you to enjoy even more characters who couldn’t quite make it as playable fighters. You may even see some that only the most dedicated fans will recognize, so you’ll have to look forward to them.

Source: http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/items/assist/assist01.html

*Bolding added.

This quote relates only to assist trophies since it is stated to refer only to them, no other item.

There's actually more that notes that, indicating that there is quite a bit of redundancy in the declarations of non-playability for assist trophies, conspicuously absent for pokeballs.

Of course it doesn't have all of the things that the game has, it's probably missing half the roster and most stages, yet only you question that what is actually in the demo still has a chance to be reconsidered or changed, which as I've said is a waste of time and money for the company.

I never stated that they had to change anything. If Gardevoir is in as a playable character (unlikely, but possible), that was decided a long time ago, however her playable character objects(s) would be disabled for the demo, whereas her pokeball object(s) would not.

So, no change, just one role appeared in the demo the other role did not, if she was in fact decided upon as a playable character (which again, is unlikely).

P.S. Object is in relation to object-oriented programming

They don't need to be confirmed as such because they are, so unless Sakurai says Pokeballs are official deconfirmations Groudon and Muchlax still have a chance too? Please!

No, everything needs to be confirmed as a deconfirmation otherwise it is not so. Otherwise everything would be a deconfirmation, including not appearing in the advertisement's for mike tyson's punch-out.

Why, because it's assuming that the standard state is an absolute negative, whereas logically you need absolute rules of the system to do so. If you assume that the standard state is an absolute negative, then nothing is eligible (and the confirmation of one character showed that).

And yeah, a slim one of course (again, compare to the chances of retro new age hippy), but it's a none-zero chance that Groudon and Muchlax will be in brawl.

 

[vesperview]

I'm just gonna say this and call it quits, cause it's impossible, that quote from Sakurai doesn't say that deconfirmation is exclusive to assist trophies as you're suggesting and it's been stated since the first smash bros. that no Pokemon in Pokeballs are not meant to be playable in any form, unless you haven't been playing Smash Bros. since 1999 you would probably know that.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I'm just gonna say this and call it quits, cause it's impossible, that quote from Sakurai doesn't say that deconfirmation is exclusive to assist trophies as you're suggesting and it's been stated since the first smash bros. that no Pokemon in Pokeballs are not meant to be playable in any form, unless you haven't been playing Smash Bros. since 1999 you would probably know that.

It only refers to assist trophies, ergo the quote is exclusive to them, it does not say that nothing else can ever be declared as unplayable (aka deconfirmed), but at the same time it only declares assist trophies as deconfirmed.



And yes, I know that there is a precedent that pokeball pokemon are not playable, hence why I say a LOW CHANCE.

However, precedents are not unbreakable.

 

[vesperview]

It doesn't declare anything it just states the obvious about this types of characters:

Assist trophies allow you to enjoy even more characters that couldn't make it as playable characters

same goes for Pokemon:

Pokeballs allow you to enjoy Pokemon that couldn't make it as playable characters

Seriously no one needs that kind of quote to know Pokemon in Pokeballs are not playable, we've had 8 years to notice and they're not gonna break that precedent because it's useless, they have more than 300 hundred pokemon to choose from to just put one in a pokeball and also as playable.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If pokeball didn't confirm, wouldn't that mean Gardevoir wouldn't stand a chance against Deoxys reintroduction into a possible choice?

 

[adumbrodeus]

It doesn't declare anything it just states the obvious about this types of characters:



same goes for Pokemon:



Seriously no one needs that kind of quote to know Pokemon in Pokeballs are not playable, we've had 8 years to notice and they're not gonna break that precedent because it's useless, they have more than 300 hundred pokemon to choose from to just put one in a pokeball and also as playable.

And I'm not saying that they will break precedent, but do you honestly believe that it's impossible? People break precedent all the time, for far less then this.

Quite Frankly, Sakurai is God, and his rules goes. The only absolutes are what he said for the game. Sure, a lot of things are unlikely to happen, but the fact is that if he decides it, they can happen (or more properly, if he decided it, since whatever decision process happened already is finished). Whatever has been confirmed previously is what Sakurai has seen fit to reveal to us about his decisions, everything else we still have to wait to discover.

If pokeball didn't confirm, wouldn't that mean Gardevoir wouldn't stand a chance against Deoxys reintroduction into a possible choice?

Well, actually, it's more like because of the strong precedent neither of them stand a chance against retro new age hippie probability wise. The only point I'm making is that it's not impossible for them to be there.

 

[vesperview]

New Age Retro Hippie is never gonna be in Brawl, not even Ness has made it yet.

 

[adumbrodeus]

New Age Retro Hippie is never gonna be in Brawl, not even Ness has made it yet.

Erm, that was the point, I'm willing to bet the New Age Retro Hippie is never gonna be in brawl.

Still, there is an extremely slim chance that precedent will be defied.

Hence the reason I brought him up, doesn't fit any deconfirmations, but the conditions make his chances extremely low.

 

[vesperview]

You are seriously telling me that New Age Retro Hippie has a chance of being in Brawl? Even Ness's mom has more chance of being in Brawl lol.

 

[adumbrodeus]

You are seriously telling me that New Age Retro Hippie has a chance of being in Brawl? Even Ness's mom has more chance of being in Brawl lol.

Yeah....

That was sort of the point, it was basically a ridiculous character presented to point out how low exactly gardevoir's odds of making it actually are.

Every character does have a "chance", but many have a VERY VERY low chance.



For example, Gannondorf, a popular character, part of one of nintendo's largest franchises, previously appeared in smash, extremely important to the game. 94% chance of being in the game as a playable character aprox.

Compare to New Age Retro Hippie, generic enemy in the earthbound series, no storyline importantance, not particularly popular, give it a .000000048% chance of making it into Brawl as a playable character.

Now do you understand, I'm talking about winning the lottery twice in a row type odds, I'm not saying that Retro New Age Hippie is a legitimate contender, quite the opposite I'm saying that Gardevoir is not a legitimate character because she's in the same category as Retro New Age Hippie.

Ok, it was a bit of a hyperbole, but you understand now, right?

 

[vesperview]

I do understand, but again I will never think that Pokemon in pokeballs or generic enemies like New Age Retro Hippie have a chance not even 0.00000000000000000000000000000001%, mainly because generic enemies usually have a legion of main characters that actually do something to the plot before them and there is also a legion of pokemon that can be chosen to have one in a pokeball and playable as well, but I think we should agree to disagree on this matter.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I do understand, but again I will never think that Pokemon in pokeballs or generic enemies like New Age Retro Hippie have a chance not even 0.00000000000000000000000000000001%, mainly because generic enemies usually have a legion of main characters that actually do something to the plot before them and there is also a legion of pokemon that can be chosen to have one in a pokeball and playable as well, but I think we should agree to disagree on this matter.

Ok, I guess that's the only way to finish it off.

But as I said, the only thing which makes something impossible is the absolute rules of the system, and those rules are the sum total of what Sakurai has revealed to us.


That said, you want Ridley and Midna in brawl so... +20 cool points.

 

[Fawriel]

Can we bring this to a close now? It's nothing but an argument about semantics, really.
Adumbrodeus: "extremely unlikely = extremely unlikely"
Others: "extremely unlikely = impossible and not even worth talking about"

Now, why would this argument make the Gardevoir thread the laughing stock of the forums? It's a mostly unrelated argument that just happened to spawn here. You'll notice that most of the former supporters have kept quiet for some time now.
I can't possibly know exactly how all of them ( including me ) feel, but I can say with certainty that we all know that Gardevoir is extremely unlikely. There's no way around that.
However, it was fun to think about the tiny possibilities that could still allow her to be playable. You know, "fun". The reason we are probably here for?
These are forums. Forums are used by people who like to have a laugh or who like to be informed or who like to argue, and others, and any combination of those.
Arguing on forums is sort of a game. Young animals play with each other to practice hunting, we argue with each other about things that are actually quite unimportant in the big picture, because we want to train our skills in conversation, logical thought and rhetorics. Arguably the "hunting" of today.
That small philosophical tangent aside, I'll get to the point:
You are spoilsports.
All of you who call others stupid or whatever else for talking about a certain subject.
It is meant to be fun.
You take it too seriously.
It's all a sort of game, games always have a serious nature if you take into account the aspect of training skills, but the purpose of games is to have fun.
Animals don't kill each other when they play with each other.
If you argue, you may "win" in rare cases where your opponent actually listens and admits that he was wrong. That rarely happens, so you're often stuck with the "knowledge" that you are right, whether you are or not. It's unfortunately seemingly impossible to make everyone actually listen.
The point is, if you try to forbid people to talk about certain things, you're not winning the game, you're destroying it.

Think of it as a game of football. You win against a bunch of others and, as a prize, take their ball away because they lost.
It was still fun and strangely comforting to just talk about Gardevoir until people for some reason started thinking that talking about lost causes is some kind of mortal sin.


I'm not sure whether I got my point across there. I probably babbled a little.
Anyway. With the exception of certain legendaries, Pokemon are species, so it's not perfectly impossible to have one in the roster as well as in a Pokeball, and Sakurai is still going to work on the game for a freaking third of a year.
Changes can still happen.
Gardevoir has about a 0.5% chance now, but who cares?

 

[Duality]

Gardevoir is a Pokeball... it casts a round shield that you (the caster) can hide in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCm2BHaoHZo

Sorry if I'm pointing the obvious but this thread should die IMO.

 

[Brawlman]

We know...But did you even LOOK at Fawriel's post!? BP

We like to speculate. There's no rule against speculating a character with a 0.000000000003% chance.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

except that it's 0%

 

[MegatronPwnsYou]

Is there a way to make the mods lock a thread?

 

[NukeA6]

This thread is useless now and there is nothing to discuss about it. Gardevoir is deconfirmed and will not be playable. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus.

 

[GOTM]

When it finally evolved from the Kirlia it became into Gardevoir and I first saw the grace and beauty of this new form of hers, I was out of my mind. It was possibly the best moment I ever had when playing a game.

Ever since then, I never lost an opportunity to have her in my team, and even though I rarely play Pokemon, I still share a certain bond with this creature.

Not to mention she's darn pretty.

you have some problems dude

 

[Fawriel]

I AM DEEPLY OFFENDED BY THE EXISTENCE OF THAT HOUSE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET

I HOPE THE POLICE WILL REMOVE THAT HOUSE

I DO NOT APPRECIATE ITS ARCHITECTURE

SERIOUSLY PEOPLE NOBODY LIKES THAT HOUSE IT SHOULD STOP EXISTING


idiots



EDIT: The previous post was not there yet when I wrote this one.
Allow me to correct myself.

*big ****ING idiots.

 

[adumbrodeus]

This thread is useless now and there is nothing to discuss about it. Gardevoir is deconfirmed and will not be playable. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus.

Did you actually bother to read my reasoning?

Of course not, so you just wrote a generic statement with no reasoning behind it that could apply to anything. For example:


"Communism works on a large scale. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus."

"The Zombie apocalypse is here. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus."

"Sheep are actually vampiric devil spawn. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus."

"There is no such thing as evolution. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus."

"Calculus was invented by aliens. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus."


See how it's applicable to absolutely anything, if you disagree, attack my reasoning, at least the others had the decorum to do that instead of just posting an unqualified statement and attempting to insult my intelligence.

And in case you haven't noticed, I never assumed that she will be playable, so you might do well to read the actual debate.

 

[NukeA6]

Did you actually bother to read my reasoning?

Of course not, so you just wrote a generic statement with no reasoning behind it that could apply to anything. For example:


"Communism works on a large scale. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus."

"The Zombie apocalypse is here. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus."

"Sheep are actually vampiric devil spawn. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus."

"There is no such thing as evolution. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus."

"Calculus was invented by aliens. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus."


See how it's applicable to absolutely anything, if you disagree, attack my reasoning, at least the others had the decorum to do that instead of just posting an unqualified statement and attempting to insult my intelligence.

And in case you haven't noticed, I never assumed that she will be playable, so you might do well to read the actual debate.

I actually did but I eventually stopped because it simply bored me. And I see the debate ended so it's time for me to move on.

 

[HipsterKid]

This thread has become a massive collision between disagreeing beings bent on getting each other to see their impossible views. We are human beings! There will always be at least one thing we will not agree on, and this happens to be one of them. So could we just, as said earlier, agree to disagree and move on!

 

[MysticKenji]

This argument thing should've ended the last time Fawriel posted.

How's work on the Grand Finale going?

 

[Duality]

you have some problems dude

WOW LOL! Somebody needs to get outside... *points to Fawriel*

She's already a Pokeball, she has a 0% chance of getting in as a playable character.

 

[MegatronPwnsYou]

WOW LOL! Somebody needs to get outside... *points to Fawriel*

She's already a Pokeball, she has a 0% chance of getting in as a playable character.

LMAO!!! QFT!!!

 

[Duality]

Gardevoir

Spoiler

Enjooooy the picture! xD

[BL[/B]
When it finally evolved from the Kirlia it became into Gardevoir and I first saw the grace and beauty of this new form of hers, I was out of my mind. It was possibly the best moment I ever had when playing a game.

Ever since then, I never lost an opportunity to have her in my team, and even though I rarely play Pokemon, I still share a certain bond with this creature.

Not to mention she's darn pretty.

Gardevoir is based on emotion. She is beautiful, but her beauty is graceful rather than sexy, and one might see in her a loving creature to comfort you when you feel lonely.
Or something like that.

Fawriel is a frail, lonely, unwashed nerd-boy without friends.
She's a Pokemon that is neither adorable, nor badass, but just absolutely beautiful.

Gardevoir is a dancer, she has the power to distort space, see the future and read one's emotions, and above that, she protects those close to her at the risk of her life.

Do you have some kind of fetish and obsession with white, anorexic creatures? Even hippies wouldn't describe this creature as "absolutely beautiful"...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

WOW LOL! Somebody needs to get outside... *points to Fawriel*

She's already a Pokeball, she has a 0% chance of getting in as a playable character.

Not so fast my friend. Smashbros.com has to reveal the update first before it's considered official.

 

[vesperview]

No update is needed, Garde is deconfirmed, stop hallucinating about her being playable.

 

[Duality]

Not so fast my friend. Smashbros.com has to reveal the update first before it's considered official.

Ok ok ok. How about this: Gardevoir has a 99.99% chance of getting on the Dojo in the future.

 

[vesperview]

Gardevoir has 100% chance of being in the dojo and 0 of being playable, easy as that.

 

[MegatronPwnsYou]

Do you have some kind of fetish and obsession with white, anorexic creatures? Even hippies wouldn't describe this creature as "absolutely beautiful"...

This guy has problems, he's either on a **** load of medication, or just a complete weirdo. Either way his head is twisted and his fetish is sickening. The lack of common sense in this thread is mind boggling.

 

[RDK]

"Communism works on a large scale. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus."

"The Zombie apocalypse is here. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus."

"Sheep are actually vampiric devil spawn. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus."

"There is no such thing as evolution. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus."

"Calculus was invented by aliens. Get this through your head, abumbrodeus."

Actually, three of those statements can be considered true.

 

[Duality]

Gardevoir has 100% chance of being in the dojo and 0 of being playable, easy as that.

Hahaha there we go, that's what I meant. Thanks.


@Megatron: Very well put.

 

[vesperview]

Wow I hadn't read the first post, this guy does have some weird taste in women, lol.

 

[RDK]

The lack of common sense in this thread is mind boggling.

The fact that this thread is full of people who want Gardevoir as a PC helps to support your statement.

 

[Duality]

Seriously though. This isn't even worth 'speculating'. It's been confirmed, and she's in a Pokeball..

 

[MysticKenji]

So...why are you guys still posting here?
Leave, and let this topic die.