Ganon's Book of Sinister Secrets (Discoveries, Trix & ATs)

[Humanity]

It's pretty basic, but here's a little trick I've been using: If you full-hop into a standard wizard kick off the edge, you can reliably recover with your midair jump and Up+B. What this means for you is more off-stage spiking options- it's fairly situational, but a good tactic to have up your sleeve just in case. The danger is, of course, that it's really easy to gimp ganon when he goes that deep, so it's best saved for when you're sure you're going to land it. When it does land, it can score extremely early kills. I've been messing with it in friendlies with some people I know, and it's won me a decent few matches so far.

Edit: Also, while testing this I discovered that the Wizard Kick spike hitbox is much bigger than I would have previously guessed. It can be pretty generous as far as what counts as the "start" of the kick.

 

[Jiom]

Not sure if this is already known but ganon can ledgehop fair and land onstage with his second jump now. Also works with air dodge and uair.

 

[Opana]

Not sure if this is already known but ganon can ledgehop fair and land onstage with his second jump now. Also works with air dodge and uair.

He can do that out of any aerial IIRC, but I don't believe it's been mentioned yet.

 

[Opana]

Assuming this isn't old, you can now slide on slopes when landing with an aerial flame choke. This can slide the enemy offstage onto the ledge, where you're less vulnerable although teching likely negates any usefulness this may have had.

 

[Wiley]

I've been holding onto this for selfish reasons, I play Ganon do not judge me... But the more I see other Ganons use the technique the less uniquely impressed I am with it myself lol and so we should all be on the same page. This was my training procedure for ironing out the new trump mechanic.

Set up in training vs Lil Mac. set to 60%. walk up, Ftilt. Wait for recovery, trump the ledge with a fast falled walk off ledge grab. and now you can practice your timing for your bair off stage. If you are ledge jumping, you are pushing side to early, give it a tic and it will come out nicely.

nothing new, but this training scenario makes repeated practice much easier and WILL improve your timing. Implement this attack into your games and I guarantee you more wins.


you can now switch up your already incredibly potent edge-guard game in even more devious ways. Or when the time comes when there is a natural 'trump' scenario, your reaction time will be all the more deadly.

 

[Opana]

I've been holding onto this for selfish reasons, I play Ganon do not judge me... But the more I see other Ganons use the technique the less uniquely impressed I am with it myself lol and so we should all be on the same page. This was my training procedure for ironing out the new trump mechanic.

Set up in training vs Lil Mac. set to 60%. walk up, Ftilt. Wait for recovery, trump the ledge with a fast falled walk off ledge grab. and now you can practice your timing for your bair off stage. If you are ledge jumping, you are pushing side to early, give it a tic and it will come out nicely.

nothing new, but this training scenario makes repeated practice much easier and WILL improve your timing. Implement this attack into your games and I guarantee you more wins.


you can now switch up your already incredibly potent edge-guard game in even more devious ways. Or when the time comes when there is a natural 'trump' scenario, your reaction time will be all the more deadly.

I do attempt this, but I'm almost positive the opponent can jump out of it. In that scenario, depending on the character I believe an uair or bair may hit them out of a ledge hop should they expect the usual.

 

[Wiley]

It's definitely not a guaranteed hit. This is just the best way I've found to practice this for muscle memory. These conditions allow for rapid fire attempts. It's more so for those moments when you find yourself in the circus down below off the ledge, I just wanted to master the spacing and timing so it would be more in my favor, and it has been in general. The hop down trump is somewhat telegraphed as an option since you're not going off to intercept. And of course I never like saying, well most people aren't aware of this option yet, because I'm training for worst case scenario. But as a mix up it's just one more trick up the gauntlet.

Thank you for bringing that up though. I should have been more clear that this is not "auto win" material.

 

[Opana]

I sometimes feel like I live on the edge so I'll take any ledge related info I can get. Not necessarily by choice, it's just I get cornered there or edge guard off it.

Here's the options I often use on the ledge:

-Ledge Drop Bair

-Ledge Drop Uair

-Ledge Hop Fair, then hop into another fair

-Ledge Hop Uair

-Ledge Hop fast fall Dair(Worked better in Brawl imo)

-Ledge Hop Flame Choke

-Ledge Hop Foostool Wizkick

-Rarely I'll ledge hop into Up Special and try and uppercut finish opponents

-Rarely attempt that ledge tech I found, no success yet largely due to my own error

 

[Wiley]

one of my favorites is just pushing away from the ledge then immediately back towards it with a choke, it comes out so fast.. In this game if you continue to hold towards the ledge you won't Ganoncide but if you hold backwards directly after the input... >:D doom. You can do this to bait, and depending on timing either instantly grab the ledge (far more dangerous this time around without the invincibility on regrab) or push forward onto the stage. Both must be used carefully as they're punishable. It's just faster than ledge hop into choke, and easier to ganoncide. You also show far less of your hit box since you're lower but your fist will still connect. This is nothing special just a little addition to that list.

 

[Opana]

I'll try that out.

Just pulled off a grab release dair meteor smash at the ledge, this could be a pretty awesome mix up.

 

[Alter Requiem]

Does anyone know if the super armor frames on his sword punch custom are actually longer than on his standard? I was really hype when i heard there was super armor on his punch finally, but it turned out it was just the last couple frames (((

 

[Opana]

Does anyone know if the super armor frames on his sword punch custom are actually longer than on his standard? I was really hype when i heard there was super armor on his punch finally, but it turned out it was just the last couple frames (((

Ganonfist

 

[_Magus_]

Don't know if this has been mentioned already but a grounded wizkick offstage, when perfectly timed, works gimping wonders. :D

 

[KieRanaRan]

I almost always use this at some point when playing with Ganon:

1. Flame choke
2. D-tilt
3. F-tilt

You'll rack up a healthy amount of % (and if your opponent is high % then that final 'sparta' kick can be a literal killer)

 

[Wiley]

I almost always use this at some point when playing with Ganon:

1. Flame choke
2. D-tilt
3. F-tilt

You'll rack up a healthy amount of % (and if your opponent is high % then that final 'sparta' kick can be a literal killer)

almost any DI/vector will not allow an F-tilt to follow up, and this is at 0%. any higher and Ftilt as a third just doesn't happen. How you are managing to consistantly have your opponent not tech and get this "almost always" when you use him is a bit beyond me. I really hope I'm wrong and you can share something, because that sounds absurd... but I just don't see this happening much as an option. Frankly at high % I'm happy enough with a free Dtilt because that usually does the trick.

 

[RODO]

You can punish attacks like marth's shieldbreaker with warlock punch especially if they are approaching from the air.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Ya, Wizkick Canceling as been in since Brawl.

Is this the Wizkick cancel that I've been hearing so much about? (Please excuse the potato quality of my phone)

View My Video

 

[A2ZOMG]

Is this the Wizkick cancel that I've been hearing so much about? (Please excuse the potato quality of my phone)

View My Video

Yep. Also watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HRBVPzBAw0

EDIT: Guess this is post 10,000 for me.

 

[Z1GMA]

Guess this is post 10,000 for me.

Congratz

 

[JmacAttack]

Question! Just out of curiosity, if you Flame Choke someone, and successfully read them using a getup attack out of it, are there any characters who would get hit by you answering that with a Warlock Punch?

 

[Xinc]

Question! Just out of curiosity, if you Flame Choke someone, and successfully read them using a getup attack out of it, are there any characters who would get hit by you answering that with a Warlock Punch?

There's generally time for people to roll away from a Warlock Punch. It takes a general stupidity, lack of knowledge of super armor, or a lot of pressure to get hit by a Warlock Punch.

 

[Z1GMA]

Question! Just out of curiosity, if you Flame Choke someone, and successfully read them using a getup attack out of it, are there any characters who would get hit by you answering that with a Warlock Punch?

I think a buffered WP can hit a few characters that have really slow GUAs this way.

 

[Opana]

Ganon combo involving two grabs for 48%

I think it may be a true combo, and it works on a few characters. Can lead into a wizkick cancel flame choke suicide on wario.

 

[Xinc]

Ganon combo involving two grabs for 48%

I think it may be a true combo, and it works on a few characters. Can lead into a wizkick cancel flame choke suicide on wario.

Have your opponents DI'ed away? I often find choke a more safe chain approach.

 

[Z1GMA]

Insta-Airborne

If you're standing at the ledge and take a strong hit on your shield, you can make Ganon looe footing of the stage by shielddropping then Jab or Dtilt.
This often happens when when you try to punish ppl with a Jab or Dtilt after blocking their Ledge Pressure.
It's not really that effective, but it's good to know that Jab and Dtilt has these properties.

This can lead to some stuff - Scenario:
Opponent uses a strong attack on your shield while you're standing at the ledge. You shielddrop and input Jab/Dtilt. This immediately makes Ganon airborne and ready to Aerudo, or DJ Fair/AC Uair/AC Dair, etc...

Again, nothing you should rely on, really, but it's good to know it's there.

Ganon combo involving two grabs for 48%

I think it may be a true combo, and it works on a few characters. Can lead into a wizkick cancel flame choke suicide on wario.

I think they can jump after the first Uair, but I'm not sure.

Also, Gerudo > Dtilt > landchase > Gerudo > Dtilt, does 49%.
Ridiculous damage for such little effort.

 

[Opana]

I set the cpu to jump in training and they couldn't get out, but vectoring may just ruin it anyway.

I like using that combo on Macs as a lot don't realize they can jump it lol, the one you mentioned Z1GMA.

Been testing some stuff with hell drop:

On battlefield, the only aerial that can autocancel from the low platform is bair.

From the high platform, bair, uair, and dair autocancel.

The highest point of the Yoshi's Island slanted platform has the same autocancelable aerials as BF's high platform, when almost at it's highest point uair can autocancel, when neutral bair autocancels.

Canceling bair off the low platforms takes near instant timing, I could only do it when I slowed it in training.

EDIT:

Shorthopping Fair off low platforms allows you to buffer a special out of its landing, as it's of comparable or the same height as a full hop fair from the ground.

 

[Opana]

Wizkick cancel into footstool

Total accident but I like this idea.

 

[Opana]

Any helldropped aerial aside from dair can follow up a flame choke on a platform.

Also, if they don't jump right away, helldropped auto canceled bair may lead into a potential short hop flame choke suicide.


EDIT:

So I've recently found out that using an aerial gerudo on the rising platforms of YI, on their edge I believe, allows you to send them downward much like the Brinstar lava trick in Brawl. I think this'll work with any platform/stage with no ledge, possibly with grounded gerudo too. I have a video of it I'll upload later on, I'm still a bit under the weather.


EDIT 2:

Only really viable on low no-ledge platforms, I've tested it. Ferox has many of these but all high up, and since YI's platforms are seemingly random I doubt this will see use.

On the plus side, I've found an easy way to buffer wiz kick out of full hop fair:

During Fair's initial frames circle the circle pad downward and it won't fast fall, allowing an easy buffer.

 

[Opana]

Nair on shield often pushes them outside their grab range, I've done this purposely to great effect.

 

[fromundaman]

I have unfortunately not been keeping up to date with these boards as much as I should; could someone clarify what this "helldrop" is?

 

[Shogger]

I have unfortunately not been keeping up to date with these boards as much as I should; could someone clarify what this "helldrop" is?

Quoting the Wise Ganon thread:

"From what it looks like, you can platform drop to aerial wizkick the lower level below you. But that's not the weird part. The weird part is you are able to do this in such a way that you Quake the platform, and then it INSTANTLY CANCELS leaving you airborne, which you can use to attack people below you with aerials almost instantly and other tricks."

Never actually attempted it so I don't know what the input is.

 

[fromundaman]

Quoting the Wise Ganon thread:

"From what it looks like, you can platform drop to aerial wizkick the lower level below you. But that's not the weird part. The weird part is you are able to do this in such a way that you Quake the platform, and then it INSTANTLY CANCELS leaving you airborne, which you can use to attack people below you with aerials almost instantly and other tricks."

Never actually attempted it so I don't know what the input is.

Oh god this is awesome! Thank you!

Having some trouble doing it consistently on 3DS, but should be easier to do on a C-stick (I use GC controller for tournament but sadly don't own a WiiU).

 

[Hi-Hatz]

Not sure if this is known, but when you're recovering on Battlefield with Ganon's normal Up-B, you can land a really displaced hit on people standing pretty far back from the ledge. You have to start your Up-B really low and dig it into the stage to the point where you almost get stuck under it. Really basic and easy to incorporate.

Normal Neutral-B goes through enough stuff that we ought to form a comprehensive list for it eventually. Eats both hits of Zamus' F-Smash, eats almost everything in Mac's arsenal besides charged smashes and jab flurries... it's sick.

If nothing else, Down-Throw to Down-B is legit on a lot of the cast at really low percents. It's worth the almost guaranteed punish which you can also prevent with edge canceling.

 

[TheBearsnake]

Normal Neutral-B goes through enough stuff that we ought to form a comprehensive list for it eventually. Eats both hits of Zamus' F-Smash, eats almost everything in Mac's arsenal besides charged smashes and jab flurries... it's sick.

Was just about to talk about this! Guaranteed Free punch on Flare blitz from my experience. I'm pretty sure I've done it to puff's rollout as well.

 

[fromundaman]

Can someone explain to me exactly how neutral B's armor works? It seems really inconsistent to me. I've seen it eat forward smashes, but lose to a single Megaman lemon. Is it based on Ganon's %? The % of the attack dealt? The type of attack? Is there a window where the armor is not active?

 

[HeavyLobster]

Can someone explain to me exactly how neutral B's armor works? It seems really inconsistent to me. I've seen it eat forward smashes, but lose to a single Megaman lemon. Is it based on Ganon's %? The % of the attack dealt? The type of attack? Is there a window where the armor is not active?

It tanks everything as long as it's active, but there isn't any armor if it's started in the air or b-reversed. There's also a window just before Ganon attacks where there is no armor and he can be interrupted by anything.

 

[Hi-Hatz]

I reverse mine so much that I wouldn't even have noticed if it's really that simple. Good stuff if it is though; guess I'll see tonight.

 

[It's Toms]

Just wanted to stop in and say hi. Hopefully I'll have something good to contribute with a bit more time to tool around with the game.

 

[Z1GMA]

Can someone explain to me exactly how neutral B's armor works? It seems really inconsistent to me. I've seen it eat forward smashes, but lose to a single Megaman lemon. Is it based on Ganon's %? The % of the attack dealt? The type of attack? Is there a window where the armor is not active?

Lobster covered most of it. However, it can also be interupted at the very first couple of frames during the move.
Like at the beginning and right before the punch comes out.

 

[Opana]

It tanks everything as long as it's active, but there isn't any armor if it's started in the air or b-reversed. There's also a window just before Ganon attacks where there is no armor and he can be interrupted by anything.

Ganonfist

I b reversed this in the air and still had SA though.

Also, Kill Diddy at any percent with Ganon's dair