Ganon's Beard - General. Social. Rankings.

[Divilenta]

Inui, Vex and Atomsk apply a universal talent to Ganon, but as demonstrated in their videos, such as ones Vex has posted here, they demonstrate a poor understanding of the character.

It takes a special kind to be the best as the 'Dorf! >:3

"Special" meaning "awesome", amirite?

 

[Vermanubis]

"Special" meaning "awesome", amirite?

Yeah! Seriously, Inui, Atomsk and Vex are just a bunch of goofy-looking fat guys. You have to be at least an epic-looking goofy fat guy to even being considered to make the cut as best Ganon. Best Ganon entails not only the immense skill to capitalize on every flaw in your opponent's playstyle and play like a Ganon pro in general, but to look the part as well.

 

[Divilenta]

Yeah! Seriously, Inui, Atomsk and Vex are just a bunch of goofy-looking fat guys. You have to be at least an epic-looking goofy fat guy to even being considered to make the cut as best Ganon. Best Ganon entails not only the immense skill to capitalize on every flaw in your opponent's playstyle and play like a Ganon pro in general, but to look the part as well.

Well s*** I might have to start maining someone else cuz I look so goofy.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Epic looking fat guy:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/z...Wind_Waker.png/300px-Ganondorf_Wind_Waker.png

Goofy looking fat guy:
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/scre...F6-11C8-D7AB5BF2AEF52392Sonic_-_Dr_Eggman.gif

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

The fact that Inui wrote that makes me <_<

 

[Dajayman]

DLA isn't fat.
But he did give up on the 'Dorf. So that theory may be true.

Verm, we need to play friendlies again someday!

 

[Vermanubis]

From a pools match recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v5pLI-edPc

 

[Dumbfire]

Thats it. I'm learning how to do that right now.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Inui, Vex, and Atomsk don't use FoG. That is a low testament to their Ganon skill.

 

[Vermanubis]

Inui, Vex, and Atomsk don't use FoG. That is a low testament to their Ganon skill.

So true, Tero! Only when Ganon unleases his full potential can he achieve such effortless and eloquent, yet sophisticated deadliness. >:U

 

[Dumbfire]

So short hop, double jump immediality airdogde and at the right area above the ground jump + wizkick at the same time? Oh.. This is never gonna work for me..

 

[Ganonsburg]

I've been able to do it a few times, but I'm having trouble figuring out the timing for it all. Going into training mode and doing slow motion doesn't help because it just makes everything difficult to adjust to. How did you guys do it?

 

[Vermanubis]

If you want to use it effectively and consistently, as in, you want to use it pragmatically in real matches, you're going to need to practice it for a good solid fortnight. The timing is incredibly tricky, but once you get it down, it's second nature. The purpose of the airdodge is to get Ganon as close to the ground, framewise, as he can get, reliably. Once you're at the peak of your first jump, airdodge upwards. As soon as the airdodge frames end, press jump and do a wizkick simultaneously.

Took me hours of frustrating experimentation to perfect it, but it pays off in so, so many ways lol. I now use it as a taunt as well. 8D

 

[Divilenta]

If you want to use it effectively and consistently, as in, you want to use it pragmatically in real matches, you're going to need to practice it for a good solid fortnight. The timing is incredibly tricky, but once you get it down, it's second nature. The purpose of the airdodge is to get Ganon as close to the ground, framewise, as he can get, reliably. Once you're at the peak of your first jump, airdodge upwards. As soon as the airdodge frames end, press jump and do a wizkick simultaneously.

Took me hours of frustrating experimentation to perfect it, but it pays off in so, so many ways lol. I now use it as a taunt as well. 8D

I must try this. True Ganon mains use FoG all the time!

 

[Dajayman]

It would be cool if FoG was easier without that airdodge. Anyone with a decent amount of GOOD Ganon MU experience can see FoG coming a mile away because of that fh airdodge. Try to master that Verm and NOBODY will ever see it coming.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

The best part about the airdodge is that you can fake it and just land normally, this might cause some airdodge pressure on Opponents above you and confuse those recovering horizontally.

 

[Clai]

Inui, Vex and Atomsk apply a universal talent to Ganon, but as demonstrated in their videos, such as ones Vex has posted here, they demonstrate a poor understanding of the character.

It takes a special kind to be the best as the 'Dorf! >:3

After watching a video of Atomsk laying the beat-down on Pierce with Ganon, I think you're underestimating his abilities. Applying universal talent isn't a bad thing in the slightest- in fact, seeing other people demonstrate features at the highest levels of play such as spacing and stage control helps give the rest of us insight on things we haven't thought of before. I used to doubt Atomsk too, but watching him has made me a believer.

Inui, though, is lol and I'm too biased to comment on Vex.

 

[Vermanubis]

After watching a video of Atomsk laying the beat-down on Pierce with Ganon, I think you're underestimating his abilities. Applying universal talent isn't a bad thing in the slightest- in fact, seeing other people demonstrate features at the highest levels of play such as spacing and stage control helps give the rest of us insight on things we haven't thought of before. I used to doubt Atomsk too, but watching him has made me a believer.

Inui, though, is lol and I'm too biased to comment on Vex.

Oh, I never doubted that he was good. I also never thought universal skill application was bad either. My point is that while they demonstrate a general competence with Ganon, they're not "top Ganons" by a long shot. I just watched the video you mentioned, and I was genuinely impressed. But only impressed insofar as he used him well for being a non-Ganon main.

They, simply put, do not tap into Ganon's potential. I know saying that about Ganon doesn't seem like it's saying much, but it's true. I faced TeeVee; considered by most in my region as the best Ganon (before I began attending tourneys, that is! >:3); and won in an unholy massacre.

The main point I'm making is that, while some players better than us overall may use Ganon well, them being better than us overall does not mean they have the potential to be top Ganons. Same goes for any other character. But when people know the match-up versus Ganon (which Pierce clearly did not; he approached like mad), universal skill no longer applies. It is then about how intimately you know Ganondorf that matters. In theory, if everyone approached Ganon like Pierce did Atomsk, Ganon would be top-tier. But once you face an opponent who knows how to overwhelm or play defensively against Ganon, being able to space well and PS on spot is of little consequence.

 

[Dajayman]

The pros need to use more FoG though.

 

[Dajayman]

Double post...

 

[Divilenta]

I must request a link to said Amtosk vs. Pierce video. This discussion has caught my interest...

 

[Divilenta]

I must request a link to said Amtosk vs. Pierce video. This discussion has caught my interest...

 

[Divilenta]

I must request a link to said Amtosk vs. Pierce video. This discussion has caught my interest...

 

[Vermanubis]

Just youtube atomsk vs pierce

 

[Vermanubis]

But yeah, again, when people say you can't be the best of someone if you don't main them, or at least second them, they're not lying. On a linear scale, they can apply a superior general skill to the character and succeed in certain areas. But when it comes to situations requiring an intimate knowledge of the character, they fall short and can't cope.

 

[Clai]

But yeah, again, when people say you can't be the best of someone if you don't main them, or at least second them, they're not lying. On a linear scale, they can apply a superior general skill to the character and succeed in certain areas. But when it comes to situations requiring an intimate knowledge of the character, they fall short and can't cope.

The point of being a top player is knowing how to cope in situations where the best option isn't black and white. They might not know the option given to them if they had extensive knowledge of the character, but to say they can't cope just isn't correct. Overall, it's a matter of how well they incorporate their options throughout the entire match. If they know how to use their universal skill well, they are more than capable of winning even without the help of more character-intensive skills.

 

[Bahamut777]

HEY GUYS!

Since we're almost an off-topic central, how about we start our 2010's 2nd half with some metagame review and improvement? Our MU discussion is way too outdated, we don't have a metagame thread, neither a stage discussion thread, our video index is a bit off and rankings as well.

I could help with topic organisation and management.
Are you fine with this?

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Atomsk did show a good understanding of Ganon's hitboxes but he looked more impressive because of Pierce messing up all the time. Using SideB while Ganon is shielding and still going for the Final hit being being the low stabs is asking for a shield grab or a dair. Pierce had really bad spacing with his fairs and got hit by OoS dairs, which is really laughable considering it's Marth.

Atomsk did have very good reads in Pierce's patterns of spacing and zoning however. He could get those SideBs in very well and effectively.

 

[Divilenta]

Good god did I post 3 times for the same thing? O.o Stupid internet.

I saw the video...and I wasn't blown away. It actually reminded me of my own playstyle, only not completely sucky. Pierce was really aggressive though, that is what did him in.

HEY GUYS!

Since we're almost an off-topic central, how about we start our 2010's 2nd half with some metagame review and improvement? Our MU discussion is way too outdated, we don't have a metagame thread, neither a stage discussion thread, our video index is a bit off and rankings as well.

I could help with topic organisation and management.
Are you fine with this?

That sounds awesome.

 

[Dajayman]

The triple post is not your fault Div. SWF went down very temporarily, and it caused me to double post due to the weird lag.

 

[TP]

Atomsk tried to rechoke Pierce. Pierce was Marth.

He's great, much better than me, but could be a lot better if he took the time to really learn Ganon.

 

[Dumbfire]

Yeah lets just start some new threads.
And please start the MU threads with some high tiers, those bother me more than barely seen low/mid tiers.

 

[Jimmyfosho]

where is tero on this list

 

[Vermanubis]

@Bahamut: Definitely, man. We need to get someone to take over most of the threads. Kalm isn't nearly active enough to run those threads right now.

@Clai: That may apply for some characters, but not for Ganon. Like I said, universal skill is moot when someone knows how to shut Ganon down. As Divi, Tero and TP pointed out, Atomsk showcased tremendous general aptitude, but this was applicable only because Pierce was implementing a playstyle that makes Ganon god-tier lol.

@Jimmy: Kalm never put him on, but if I had to say where he is, I'd say in Lords of Evil tier.

 

[Bahamut777]

So, if more people agree with this, July 1st I'm starting new threads.
What we need:
-A new MU discussion thread with summaries only
--Individual bi-weekly especific MU discussion
-A stage viability discussion thread
-A new technique compendium (I'll ask PK-Ow! for help, since he has already started it)
-A metagame (current and improvement) thread, covering approaching, defensive playing, edge game, planking and other general "How to play" stuff
-Ganon's best doubles partners and specific character strategies discussion thread
-A new Ranking/Index/G-Players/Boards Tier thread
-A new, date-sorted, video index thread

If you don't like any of those or would like to recommend more, please tell me.

 

[Vermanubis]

I'll remake Ganon's beard to update the rankings and general things if you want. Just to take some the load off.

Also, someone needs to edit this song by Dethklok so it sings "Thunderbeard" instead of "Thunderhorse"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stdqPT8LvTg

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Yeah! Seriously, Inui, Atomsk and Vex are just a bunch of goofy-looking fat guys. You have to be at least an epic-looking goofy fat guy to even being considered to make the cut as best Ganon. Best Ganon entails not only the immense skill to capitalize on every flaw in your opponent's playstyle and play like a Ganon pro in general, but to look the part as well.

I don't think I'm fat???

Inui, Vex, and Atomsk don't use FoG. That is a low testament to their Ganon skill.

Useless technique.

 

[Ganonsburg]

I think you should make a hub thread, where you have the links to each of those threads and any other important threads in the hub, as well as a short description of them and their uses.

 

[Vermanubis]

I don't think I'm fat???



Useless technique.

C'mon. You're a cow, Vex.

Also, useless? Tell that to C. Awesum, Etecoon and pretty much everyone else who's played me. >w> FoG seems useless and overly-complicated, but once it becomes second nature, it literally is just like a third jump. It's won me sets/matches versus most of NE's Snake users.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

C'mon. You're a cow, Vex.

Also, useless? Tell that to C. Awesum, Etecoon and pretty much everyone else who's played me. >w> FoG seems useless and overly-complicated, but once it becomes second nature, it literally is just like a third jump. It's won me sets/matches versus most of NE's Snake users.

Still useless, and Albert L looks more like Ganon then you do.