Ganonic Grimoire (Social) - Commiseration and Hierarchy

[Vermanubis]

Ah. Well that's her spacing for you.

So what would be good ways tk improve my offensive game, you think?

It's really tough to say. Though he lacks approaching options, Ganon has an infinite number of ways to be aggressive, directly or indirectly. I suppose the best way to put it is to say instead of waiting for opponents to come to you, find ways to get to them. Figure out their patterns and weave through them. Master his combos, experiment with them, etc.

Ganon is made by his momentum. He's like an avalance. Once he picks up speed, he's unstoppable. But furthermore, he's like an avalanche on an Arizonan Mesa; pretty tough to get one going considering it's rock. Learn to get one good hit in and keep the pressure on from there. Never let an opportunity to latch onto your opponent's *** go by.

 

[tedeth]

wow what is this, why is seadorf ranked as best ganon in aus, he's nowhere near as good as luke.
EA's played them both and he agrees too, luke is ALOT better.

 

[DLA]

I went on a bit of a pissy streak last night so I decided to make it up to you guys by sharing some of my tricks/general strategies, which you may or may not already know...

if you're having trouble finding uses for Fair without getting punished, there are some ways to deal with the lag. For example, it's pretty well known that if you full hop, double jump, and Fair at the top of the DJ, it will autocancel. But did you know that if you full hop Fair near the edge of the stage, the lag ends just in time for you to grab the ledge without DJing or anything. This is nice if you actually hit them with the Fair, because Ganon is arguably best at edgeguarding from the ledge.

Also, if you buffer an Fair when you jump from the ledge (instead of rolling/attacking up etc), then you can buffer a DJ+air dodge and FoG out of it. I'm pretty sure this is the fastest practical way to FoG from the ledge.

Also, remember that Fair is very useful offstage, because you can't get landing lag if there's no land. Not to mention that sweetspotting it can kill at 40% or less in some cases.

My favorite thing to do with Fair, however, is hit people onstage with it after they use their DJ. If you notice that your opponent DJ's a lot needlessly--both onstage and offstage--they're just asking to eat your fist. Most of the time--depending on how bad your opponent's recovery is--I find the reward to be greater than the risk, because even though you'll get punished if you whiff... you'll probably get a KO if you land that Fair, assuming you're good at edgeguarding. A lot of times you won't even need to edgeguard.

Also, Fair Snake and Peach a lot. (If they're in the air and preferrably offstage)


Fair's a useful move, despite the fact that it's bugged. After all, it was Ganon's best move in melee. Besides for the landing lag, it really wasn't changed that much. Just imagine what it would be like if it wasn't bugged


Also, I have a tournament set + some friendlies of me vs. Breezy from a few weeks ago, should I bother to upload them?

 

[Vermanubis]

I went on a bit of a pissy streak last night so I decided to make it up to you guys by sharing some of my tricks/general strategies, which you may or may not already know...

if you're having trouble finding uses for Fair without getting punished, there are some ways to deal with the lag. For example, it's pretty well known that if you full hop, double jump, and Fair at the top of the DJ, it will autocancel. But did you know that if you full hop Fair near the edge of the stage, the lag ends just in time for you to grab the ledge without DJing or anything. This is nice if you actually hit them with the Fair, because Ganon is arguably best at edgeguarding from the ledge.

Also, if you buffer an Fair when you jump from the ledge (instead of rolling/attacking up etc), then you can buffer a DJ+air dodge and FoG out of it. I'm pretty sure this is the fastest practical way to FoG from the ledge.

Also, remember that Fair is very useful offstage, because you can't get landing lag if there's no land. Not to mention that sweetspotting it can kill at 40% or less in some cases.

My favorite thing to do with Fair, however, is hit people onstage with it after they use their DJ. If you notice that your opponent DJ's a lot needlessly--both onstage and offstage--they're just asking to eat your fist. Most of the time--depending on how bad your opponent's recovery is--I find the reward to be greater than the risk, because even though you'll get punished if you whiff... you'll probably get a KO if you land that Fair, assuming you're good at edgeguarding. A lot of times you won't even need to edgeguard.

Also, Fair Snake and Peach a lot. (If they're in the air and preferrably offstage)


Fair's a useful move, despite the fact that it's bugged. After all, it was Ganon's best move in melee. Besides for the landing lag, it really wasn't changed that much. Just imagine what it would be like if it wasn't bugged


Also, I have a tournament set + some friendlies of me vs. Breezy from a few weeks ago, should I bother to upload them?

Yeah, good stuff, DLA. I won a tournament set against NE's best Peach recently by ending both matches with a bait > sweetspot FAir while he was floating. So tasty.

As for the matches, you should upload them regardless of what we think.

 

[smashkng]

Wow that's amazing Verm beating the best Peach of NE. I now doubt there is any Ganon who is any close to you Vermanubis, you're probably 3 tiers above the 2nd best Ganon now. And which Peach was it?

 

[Vermanubis]

Wow that's amazing Verm beating the best Peach of NE. I now doubt there is any Ganon who is any close to you Vermanubis, you're probably 3 tiers above the 2nd best Ganon now. And which Peach was it?

Haha, I REALLY appreciate that, Smash. I really, really do. But I don't think I'm quite THAT good. His name is Peachkid, and while he is the best Peach of NE, he's not on the level of, let's say, KOS-MOS or Kyon. He's a high-tier Peach, but not top-tier.

As much as I'd love to say I'm that much above other Ganons, I'm really not. If I am, it's only by a little bit.

 

[smashkng]

And will you come to Apex and/or next MLG?

 

[Vermanubis]

Apex, I'm trying my hardest to do.

Also, for reference, here's Peachkid last month: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSZfN97v3J4

Also, in case anyone was wondering, that's the Duke I played in a MM last month. He didn't go D3 on me though. He used MK/DK/Snake

 

[Smash G 0 D]

I've heard of Peachkid. Not bad.

But the best Peach is lloD, if you didn't know. He's SSS-Tier.

Nice job at winning though. Turnips. @_@


Why don't I see Bloodynite on this thread? He's a BEAST Ganon. He took Takeover to game 3 last week.

 

[Vermanubis]

I've heard of Peachkid. Not bad.

But the best Peach is lloD, if you didn't know. He's SSS-Tier.

I know he's your brother.

Illmatic and Peachkid I found to be better. Not a sleight against your bro though, of course.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

;D

Actually I've played Illmatic. I played some of the other Peaches at Pound 4 including Dark.Pch.

lloD is still the best imo.

But everyone is entitled to their own opinion. ;P

Oh and lloD has beaten all of the above in Peach dittos (Peachkid, Illmatic, Slayerz, etc.)

 

[Vermanubis]

I've heard of Peachkid. Not bad.

But the best Peach is lloD, if you didn't know. He's SSS-Tier.

Nice job at winning though. Turnips. @_@


Why don't I see Bloodynite on this thread? He's a BEAST Ganon. He took Takeover to game 3 last week.

He doesn't come here often. Bloodynite is a terrific Ganon with a ton of potential, but from what I've seen and played of him, his playstyle is riddled with mistakes and misfires, if you will. He has a TON of potential and is ever improving, but those vices of his keep him down a bit.

What he does good, he does very good. What he does bad, he does very bad.

Also, would you like to be tested now, SG?

 

[Smash G 0 D]

I'm at work.

How about 3ish?

 

[Vermanubis]

I'm at work.

How about 3ish?

Fine by me.

 

[DLA]

Hehe I can see the matches whenever I want since I recorded them. So whether to upload them or not depends entirely on what other people think

Also, I just fought lloD on the ladder a day or two ago... he is very good. Very campy and very hard to punish. I took him to about 60% last stock both games with Ganon (I'm going 100% Ganon on the ladder), which is pretty much all I could have hoped for on wifi. Probably the best peach I've fought online, but who knows, I've fought a lot of peaches I don't remember. He seemed to have a very generic but solid playstyle.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

lloD said you were an awesome Ganon.

If he thinks you're good, then you're good. xD

 

[Vermanubis]

Hehe I can see the matches whenever I want since I recorded them. So whether to upload them or not depends entirely on what other people think

Also, I just fought lloD on the ladder a day or two ago... he is very good. Very campy and very hard to punish. I took him to about 60% last stock both games with Ganon (I'm going 100% Ganon on the ladder), which is pretty much all I could have hoped for on wifi. Probably the best peach I've fought online, but who knows, I've fought a lot of peaches I don't remember. He seemed to have a very generic but solid playstyle.

Well, it's your call. To be honest, since last night, it seems like you're trying to get attention. I hate to put it that way, but it's how I see it. Just chill and relax. We're glad to have you back.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Verm, I'll host.

 

[Vermanubis]

K, coming.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Come back! I wanna play you with Samus

Ah well. Ggs.

I need to stop falling for ledgedrop->uair xDD

 

[Vermanubis]

GGs, SG. You really surprised me with your Ganon. You play really smart and were consciously aware of your rolls. You didn't have a pattern, so it was hard to techchase you.

The problems I saw were that you seemed to try to apply a general playstyle to Ganon, in which you didn't use a lot of his best moves to their fullest or at the opportune moments. I guess the best way I cold put it is that you're a terrific player, with a good Ganon, if that makes sense. Ergo, some of your playstyle doesn't translate well to Ganon.

I'd say low-mid high tier. :D

 

[Vermanubis]

Anybody wanna be tested?

 

[Ganonsburg]

I don't need testing, but I'll play ya Verm.

 

[GoV]

Sorry, but I wont enter in this... thing.

 

[Vermanubis]

Sorry, but I wont enter in this... thing.

Why not, GoV?

We need all the completion we can get. I don't know if Tero has tested anyone yet, but thus far, he and I have been the only ones who've really tried to complete the tier list, so it's a slow process. The list is still laughably imperfect, but it's a general template of placiings. Of course, I alone won't be responsible for placements (at least, I hope not), rather, responsible for judging basic skill.

I'm in a tough position though, because very few people who object to things on these boards speak up about it. So I'm left going solo and having no idea what people's thoughts are. I don't want to feel like I'm commandeering the boards, but at the same rate, no one else seems to be interested in advising or objecting. ._.

Truth be told, the whole King of Evil thing and tier list feels very rushed. But having no one be specific in their objections or agreements makes it... difficult to say the least. x_X

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

I would have tested Kofu if he didn't just disappear when I tried to join his game

 

[GoV]

Problem is, I'm European.
Lag will always screw me and the other player. :/

 

[Vermanubis]

Problem is, I'm European.
Lag will always screw me and the other player. :/

While lag like that can hinder some and even benefit others, it can still give a general indication of skill. But it's your call, man. I understand if you don't want to though. My past few tests have been blessed with good connections, so I've been able to work my Ganonness properly.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Why not, GoV?

I'm in a tough position though, because very few people who object to things on these boards speak up about it. So I'm left going solo and having no idea what people's thoughts are. I don't want to feel like I'm commandeering the boards, but at the same rate, no one else seems to be interested in advising or objecting. ._.

A very tough position indeed. If I felt I had anything to offer up, I would. But as of right now I think you could probably tone down the amount you're doing for a bit and encourage others to help a bit more (ie, people about your skill level). It may be that they simply don't feel like they're in a position to help much.

As for the KoE process, maybe we can find a way to make it more empirical (as Noob says). I think if we could easily compare the achievements of others then that would also make things better, and we could also PM people who aren't so active here anymore, but were good when they were, and let them know what's going on. People like DLA (until he came back), Zhouten, Kalm, etc. Then they wouldn't feel like they're being left out if they just happen to come back, and we'd get people to fight for the crown.

 

[Bahamut777]

I want to play. Right. Now.

BTW, Verm didn't said a word about my playstyle.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Bahamut's improper verb tense makes me want to scrape my eyes out with a plastic spork.

 

[Noobicidal]

Bahamut's improper verb tense makes me want to scrape my eyes out with a plastic spork.

Fascinating.

 

[TheMike]

Bahamut should be top tier. Just sayin'.


@Terodactyl Yelnats English isn't our native language. :00

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Lol I know, Baha is awesome and knows my Grammar Nazi side.

 

[Noobicidal]

Lol I know, Baha is awesome and knows my Grammar Nazi side.

You didn't address my lack of subjects or verbs in my previous post.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

That's because your post was a simple sentence, it was grammatically correct.

 

[Bahamut777]

I'm tired, Tero. Thus I'm trolling even more than I already troll in grammar.

 

[GoV]

Like I said on your blog:

Awesome Stuff! It's been a long time since I had such awesome matches like that =D

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Trolling sure is fun.

 

[Vermanubis]

I agree with that idea, Burg. Only issue is that everyone but DLA from whom you named are indeed retired. Kalm might either be retired, or on a hiatus. The only reason I feel it's best left to others is because if it came down to two Ganons fighting it out, it'd boil down to both bantering over whose achievements are better, etc.