Ganondorf

[Neanderthal]

Heh- well, I still agree with what you said before you edited it. Have the heroes have their arc versus the villains, have the villains group up together to fight some greater villain or something separately from the heroes... I know that the Smash Bros. versions of the characters aren't cannon or even necessarily the same characters, but it definitely helps to have them at least seem motivated in the same way as their cannon counterparts.

In terms of Ganondorf being playable in an actual Zelda game, I wouldn't mind a game that made you play through a story with Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf where they each achieve their fated destiny for that generation.
Ganondorf's story would have him ousting power from another evil lord.
Zelda's story would involve her trying to figure out what is going on with the kingdom and searching for the destined warrior. Could focus more on magical stealth and espionage than the other segments.
Link is found by Zelda and learns how to defeat Ganondorf and the other evil lord.

All essential parts for destiny, you could even play as Ganondorf capturing Zelda! Woo!

Hah! Would love if they made a Zelda different and intriguing like that. Like the pulp fiction of Zelda games
Yeah I don't think he would necessarily need to be a good guy or teaming with Link to be playable. I see him as being too evil and prideful to team with Link or Zelda.

Definitely could use some shaking up as the forumla of Zelda is getting a little predictable.
i.e. Zelda getting taken away, a new bad guy messing with you for the whole game and then shock! surprise! Ganondorf (/Demise) turns out to be the real bad guy behind the scenes all along.

 

[Cobalsh]

Hah! Would love if they made a Zelda different and intriguing like that. Like the pulp fiction of Zelda games
Yeah I don't think he would necessarily need to be a good guy or teaming with Link to be playable. I see him as being too evil and prideful to team with Link or Zelda.

Definitely could use some shaking up as the forumla of Zelda is getting a little predictable.
i.e. Zelda getting taken away, a new bad guy messing with you for the whole game and then shock! surprise! Ganondorf (/Demise) turns out to be the real bad guy behind the scenes all along.

Yet Bowser's so prideful he constantly teams up with Mario and the gang. I do agree with Zelda games being too predictable. I knew Ganon was going to be in SS, just didn't know when. Hopefully Alttp2 will change all of this pedictability. Then again...

Interestingly enough, Ghirahim and Aganhimhave the same amount of syllables and are speeled similarly and have similar roles as the villain's sidekick of sorts.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

. I knew Ganon was going to be in SS, just didn't know when. .

He kinda was.

And he kinda wasn't.

 

[Deleted member]

Yet Bowser's so prideful he constantly teams up with Mario and the gang. I do agree with Zelda games being too predictable. I knew Ganon was going to be in SS, just didn't know when. Hopefully Alttp2 will change all of this pedictability. Then again...

Interestingly enough, Ghirahim and Aganhimhave the same amount of syllables and are speeled similarly and have similar roles as the villain's sidekick of sorts.

Except that Agahnim is Ganon.

 

[Knight Dude]

I want to see Ganondorf use his sword(s) for most of his normal attacks. While his Neutral-B, could be changed to so that Ganon shoots that ball of energy that he uses in the Zelda games. I'm not too sure his Final Smash should be changed or not though. If were to be changed I could see the Ocarina of Time Beast Ganon being used like Giga Bowser.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Except that Agahnim is Ganon.

Uh....

There's no proof, one way or the other dude.

 

[FalKoopa]

There's no proof, one way or the other dude.

Taken form Agahnim's page on ZeldaWiki.

"It's unbelievable that you defeated my alter ego, Agahnim the Dark Wizard, twice!"

 

[LaniusShrike]

My understanding is that Agahnim and Ganondorf are not technically the same person, but Ganon did fill Agahnim with dark energy and was controlling him. When Agahnim is defeated, he doesn't *poof* and become Ganon, the shadow of Ganon evacuates his body. That being said, I think Ganon was in control of Agahnim for the entire game and for the events preceding the game, so... effectively, I guess Agahnim is essentially just a disguised Ganondorf.

 

[Deleted member]

Uh....

There's no proof, one way or the other dude.

As FalKoopa stated, Ganon refers to Agahnim as his "alter-ego" in the game.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So, ALTTP Ganon was first Ganondorf, the King of Thieves, then he became Agnahim, the evil sorcecor and later Ganon, the King of Evil?

Okaayyyyyy

Also, Agnahim has a Sheikah symbol on his cloak.

 

[LaniusShrike]

MY pet theory is that the original Agahnim, before getting possessed by Ganon, was part of an offshoot branch of the Sheikah tribe that separated from the protectors-of-Hyrule part of the Sheikah very early in Zelda history. The stylized eye on Agahnim's chest is very similar to the Sheikah symbol, except it lacks the teardrop on the bottom. The teardrop was added to the original Sheikah symbol to commemorate the shame the Sheikahs felt when a rogue Sheikah betrayed the royal family and was then banished... so it'd make sense that Agahnim, as a member of the Rogue Sheikah, would have a version of the symbol without the tear.

... basically, I like the Sheikah and want their history fleshed out. They're essentially Gypsy Ninjas wielding shadow magic to protect the rightful rulers of Hyrule, and having an evil branch seems pretty cool.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Oh ****, I wanna see a Impa vs Agnahim cutscene fight now in Zelda Wii U!

 

[bobadz]

As FalKoopa stated, Ganon refers to Agahnim as his "alter-ego" in the game.

Also this was not something the localization team made up, like dragmire. The original Japanese text has ganon refer to Agahnim as a "Bunshin" wich means doppolganger.

 

[Cobalsh]

Oh ****, I wanna see an Impa vs Agnahim cutscene fight now in Zelda Wii U!

Me too. My only problem is if Aganhim is in Alttp2, is if people think he would become worthy to be in Smash.

 

[Vaati]

Dont't get me wrong, I like Ganondorf's actual moveset and he's pretty much my main... BUT it has nothing to do with the fighting style he has in the games. Sure, he is powerful, but come on... let him use his freakin' sword. You say he would be an Ike clone? Well... now he is a C. Falcon one. Don't get mad just because I want him to use the sword... he just must use it.

 

[FalKoopa]

Don't get mad just because I want him to use the sword... he just must use it.

Why would anyone be mad? Your opinion is shared by pretty much everyone here.

People are divided over which sword should he use, though.

 

[Vaati]

I really would like him to be like in the final battle of TP against Link. He should in my opinion be faster than in Brawl and have a better defence... come on, he has the Triforce of Power! Of course he must use his sword and it would also be cool if he could be able to shoot that sort of light projectiles like in OoT or in TP when he controls Zelda. Other than that he is ok... jump height is ok and taunts are badass.

 

[Neanderthal]

Ya Almosy everyone agrees he should have a weapon.
Not necessarily a sword though as there are many supporters of giving him his old Trident (so that half the cast doesn't become sword users), or two swords like in WW.

Definitely needs his Oot lighting bolt. How Else will we play tennis?

 

[LaniusShrike]

I think what's more important than giving him a weapon is giving him magical attacks that actually represent Ganondorf. If they keep his range shorter, they can reasonably keep his hitting power high without making him slower. It's pretty important to me that he doesn't end up feeling like another Ike... I'd rather he just get more magic-based abilities.

Yes, especially his Magic Tennis Ball.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I want Ganondorf to use his twin blades from Wind Waker, but with physical moves in the mix. Notice how easily he can sheate and unsheat his weapons in Wind Waker? He could use hand to hand combat and both swords for various attacks. Magic then easily fits as B moves. And frankly, all he really needs is a new Down and Neutral B attack.

 

[Knight Dude]

I want Ganondorf to use his twin blades from Wind Waker, but with physical moves in the mix. Notice how easily he can sheate and unsheat his weapons in Wind Waker? He could use hand to hand combat and both swords for various attacks. Magic then easily fits as B moves. And frankly, all he really needs is a new Down and Neutral B attack.

I kinda disagree with that last statement. I do think he should have the Tennis Ball of Doom as his Neutral B, but I like the Wizard's Foot. Can't really say why, but I think it actually fits him. Though I will say one thing, using the dual swords from Wind Waker would be sick. I can imagine plenty of cool moves with those. But, the only A-Moves that I personally would want to keep the same for Ganon would be his Up+A, Up+Smash, Down+A, Down+Smash, and Down+Air.

 

[LaniusShrike]

I kinda disagree with that last statement. I do think he should have the Tennis Ball of Doom as his Neutral B, but I like the Wizard's Foot. Can't really say why, but I think it actually fits him. Though I will say one thing, using the dual swords from Wind Waker would be sick. I can imagine plenty of cool moves with those. But, the only A-Moves that I personally would want to keep the same for Ganon would be his Up+A, Up+Smash, Down+A, Down+Smash, and Down+Air.

Huh, interesting. I love his Brawl tap+A and side+A... I do think I'll like his up+A more if he trades out his neutral+B. A

Animation Changes I'd Like to See:
A tap: A casual backhand like he does in Wind Waker.
Up-smash: I don't really like the animation for his Brawl Up+Smash... Doesn't feel very epic or powerful. I'd prefer something where he gathers dark energy in his palm and then thrusts it upwards and detonates it. Like Mewtwo's upsmash but more explosive.
Down-smash: Gathers energy into his palm and slams it on the ground, launching things upward all around him.
Side-smash: A shadowy uppercut, similar to how his side+B used to look.

I feel like Wizard's Foot and the Choke have too similar of functions, and side+B is more intuitive for a side dash... and the Choke feels a lot more powerful. I guess, in the end, I picture Ganondorf not using his legs at all.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Tilts as physical attacks
Smashes as twin sword attacks
Magic as specials
Aerials = everything

 

[Neanderthal]

I think what's more important than giving him a weapon is giving him magical attacks that actually represent Ganondorf. If they keep his range shorter, they can reasonably keep his hitting power high without making him slower. It's pretty important to me that he doesn't end up feeling like another Ike... I'd rather he just get more magic-based abilities.

Yes, especially his Magic Tennis Ball.

What's wrong with him feeling more like Ike?
He fights similarly to that when he has a sword in the last couple games.

But yes, definitely the unique thing about G'dorf should be that he's a hybrid magic user and weapon user.

 

[LaniusShrike]

What's wrong with him feeling more like Ike?
He fights similarly to that when he has a sword in the last couple games.

But yes, definitely the unique thing about G'dorf should be that he's a hybrid magic user and weapon user.

Primarily, the fact that we already have Ike. Also, in the games he's actually pretty spry when wielding a sword... but if he's spry, then he'd have to be weaker for balance, and I want him to stay on the top in terms of pure smackitude.

Besides, I personally think him using his bare hands feels a lot more powerful than using a blade.

 

[Fastblade5035]

I want one of two things for Ganon:

1. Him to be full OP Demon Lord, having the Sword of Sages, using Energy Balls, floating, etc.
or
2. Him using his fists and NOT being a Falcon clone.

 

[Neanderthal]

Primarily, the fact that we already have Ike. Also, in the games he's actually pretty spry when wielding a sword... but if he's spry, then he'd have to be weaker for balance, and I want him to stay on the top in terms of pure smackitude.

Besides, I personally think him using his bare hands feels a lot more powerful than using a blade.

He's very "spry" when defending hits and withdrawing. But when he attacks he's quite slow.
Particularly in Skyward Sword (Demise), his blocks are instant single frame stuff, but his attacks are embarrassingly slow. Slower than Ike.

 

[Neanderthal]

I want one of two things for Ganon:

1. Him to be full OP Demon Lord, having the Sword of Sages, using Energy Balls, floating, etc.
or
2. Him using his fists and NOT being a Falcon clone.

Why would he use his fists if he wasn't a Falcon clone? When has he ever done that in his games?

 

[LaniusShrike]

He's very "spry" when defending hits and withdrawing. But when he attacks are quite slow.
Particularly in Skyward Sword (Demise), his blocks are instant single frame stuff, but his attacks are embarrassingly slow. Slower than Ike.

Ah yeah, I was mostly remembering his defensive spryness, not his attacks. I guess I enjoy playing Ike, and an Ike with dark magic would still be fun. I don't really care what kind of weaponry Ganondorf wields, as long as it feels like I'm playing as Ganondorf.

... To be fair though, while I would be disappointed if Ganondorf doesn't change much, I would still play the guy.

 

[Neanderthal]

Ah yeah, I was mostly remembering his defensive spryness, not his attacks. I guess I enjoy playing Ike, and an Ike with dark magic would still be fun. I don't really care what kind of weaponry Ganondorf wields, as long as it feels like I'm playing as Ganondorf.

Agreed.

Ah yeah, I was mostly remembering his defensive spryness, not his attacks. I guess I enjoy playing Ike, and an Ike with dark ... To be fair though, while I would be disappointed if Ganondorf doesn't change much, I would still play the guy.

That's more than I can say for myself. I'll literally be hitting the roof if he's still a h2h combat fighting clone!!

 

[Ruthy]

Oh, how I love to see the hopeful ones squirm; thinking that lord Sakurai will derive from Ganondorf's Crapton Falcon movesset...

 

[Fastblade5035]

Why would he use his fists if he wasn't a Falcon clone? When has he ever done that in his games?

When have the Ice Climbers ever shot out ice?
When has R.O.B. ever shot lasers?
When has Ness ever used PK Fire?
And when has Fox ever lit himself on fire and blast forward?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Why would he use his fists if he wasn't a Falcon clone? When has he ever done that in his games?

He has used his fists in combat before.

He hit Toon Link in a WW cutscene.

He tried to attack the sages in TP.

HE FREAKING PUNCHED THE GROUND SO HARD THAT AN EARTHQUAKE HAPPENED in OoT.

 

[LaniusShrike]

He has used his fists in combat before.

He hit Toon Link in a WW cutscene.

He tried to attack the sages in TP.

HE FREAKING PUNCHED THE GROUND SO HARD THAT AN EARTHQUAKE HAPPENED in OoT.

Yeah... that's basically my feeling about it. When he uses a sword, it feels like he's swinging a piece of metal. When he uses his fists, it feels like he's a god.

 

[Neanderthal]

Oh, how I love to see the hopeful ones squirm; thinking that lord Sakurai will derive from Ganondorf's Crapton Falcon movesset...

I don't think derive is the word you're looking for but yes I hold hope for an authentic Ganondorf this time.

Mainly because of "Lord Sakurai"'s quote about preferring to put more emphasis on going back and changing old characters instead of just adding new ones.

When have the Ice Climbers ever shot out ice?
When has R.O.B. ever shot lasers?
When has Ness ever used PK Fire?
And when has Fox ever lit himself on fire and blast forward?

Difference being that all of these examples are made up to fill a void where there isn't an obvious alternative.
With G'dorf they have obvious answers for what his standard attacks should be which can be derived (correct usage of the word) from his games.

He has used his fists in combat before.

He hit Toon Link in a WW cutscene.

He tried to attack the sages in TP.

HE FREAKING PUNCHED THE GROUND SO HARD THAT AN EARTHQUAKE HAPPENED in OoT.

The ground punch would be awesome as part of his moveset. Has nothing to do with hand to hand combat though.

Using this logic you could probably justify Link, a fire emblem swordsman, Shulk or Takamaru having an all hand to hand combat moveset if you found a cutscene where they hit someone with their fist.

I'm sorry if I give precedence to gameplay over cut scenes.... But he should use a weapon from his games for most of his other standard attacks.

 

[Fastblade5035]

Difference being that all of these examples are made up to fill a void where there isn't an obvious alternative.
With G'dorf they have obvious answers for what his standard attacks should be which can be derived (correct usage of the word) from his games.

Ness. That is all.
Its ultimately up to Sakurai, but Gdorf certainly does make sense punching.


Now kicking on the other hand...

 

[LaniusShrike]

I don't think derive is the word you're looking for but yes I hold hope for an authentic Ganondorf this time.

Mainly because of "Lord Sakurai"'s quote about preferring to put more emphasis on going back and changing old characters instead of just adding new ones.



Difference being that all of these examples are made up to fill a void where there isn't an obvious alternative.
With G'dorf they have obvious answers for what his standard attacks should be which can be derived (correct usage of the word) from his games.


The ground punch would be awesome as part of his moveset. Has nothing to do with hand to hand combat though.

Using this logic you could probably justify Link, a fire emblem swordsman, Shulk or Takamaru having an all hand to hand combat moveset if you found a cutscene where they hit someone with their fist.

I'm sorry if I give precedence to gameplay over cut scenes.... But he should use a weapon from his games for most of his other standard attacks.

You're entirely right to give precedence to gameplay over cut scenes... I just think that the Zelda game makers were wrong to continually give Ganondorf swords when it would have been a lot more intimidating if he blocked Link's sword swings with his hands and retaliated with a dismissive slap.

Gdorf does sort of have a ground punch in Brawl... his whole (pathetically weak) thing that happens when you jump and down+B immediately.

A sword would probably represent Ganondorf better. Bare hands represents how I imagine Ganondorf better.

 

[Neanderthal]

Ness. That is all.
Its ultimately up to Sakurai, but Gdorf certainly does make sense punching.


Now kicking on the other hand...

Having the odd punch in his moveset would make sense sure. He does a dash attack where he hits you with his arm in Twilight amidst the sword fight. But making him a 100% hand to hand combat fighter is stupid since you never fight him like that in any game ever. (If someone mentions cut-scenes again they are getting a slap warlock punch).

And you're right I don't think there's even a cut scene where he does a kick.



Edit: Ness's is just one move he borrows from a sidekick from his game.
Hardly the same thing as giving G'dorf a moveset that entirely contradicts the way that he fights you in every single game.

 

[Vaati]

Ganondorf uses swords even when he is in Ganon form. The punch to the ground would be a cool down smash or B but thats it. He is the main villain in one of the most known videogame series... doesn't he deserve a cool moveset?

This is a crappy example of a moveset that i would really like.

Neutral B: Tennis light bolt (don't know the name)

Down B: Earthquake punch

Side B: Don't know lol

Up B: Flying/floating

All the A and smash moves should use both the punches or the sword. The dash attack could be a punch, like the one against the sage in TP. Kicks could be used maybe in the aereals. Final smash is Ganon.

I'm not saying that they must use this moveset, I just want them to make him how he really is. Also it's stupid that they made him so bad... it's ridiculous to see the evil lord in this stupid conditon.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Ganondorf uses swords even when he is in Ganon form. The punch to the ground would be a cool down smash or B but thats it. He is the main villain in one of the most known videogame series... doesn't he deserve a cool moveset?

This is a crappy example of a moveset that i would really like.

Neutral B: Tennis light bolt (don't know the name)

Down B: Earthquake punch

Side B: Don't know lol

Up B: Flying/floating

All the A and smash moves should use both the punches or the sword. The dash attack could be a punch, like the one against the sage in TP. Kicks could be used maybe in the aereals. Final smash is Ganon.

I'm not saying that they must use this moveset, I just want them to make him how he really is. Also it's stupid that they made him so bad... it's ridiculous to see the evil lord in this stupid conditon.

Sounds about right to me, just give him his current Side+B... it's the only move of his that really feels Ganondorfy to me. For his Up+B, I kind of imagine him doing his up taunt while flying in a direction and when he unfurls himself he releases a burst of magical energy. Effectively, Zelda's Up+B without teleporting but shorter range, faster, and with a little more punch.