Ganondorf is the worst character in game...

[SCfury]

Yes he's a character that you can't just pick up like some others <.<

 

[Devil7]

He definantly is not any where near what he was in melee. Any way he his uair and bair have almost no lag on the landing as does his jab, and sparta kick.

 

[deebz435]

I like him just fine, there are a few things I think could have been improved upon, but he's still my main.

 

[Tenki]

I'm still in the beginning stages of picking up Ganondorf, learning the mindgames/combos and stuff. I'm not hung up on how different he is from Melee cause I didn't use him then, but if it's anything like learning a slow character like Ike, I'd say to use/abuse the fast-hitting/low-lag/low-knockback moves to rack up damage and save the KO moves for 60%+ (makes T-storming more lethal if there's no stale move effect on it). Treat slower moves (like.. Fair) as smashes and use them sparingly/to finish people off.

But unlike Ike, Ganon has a pretty good grabbing game (including side-b/up-b), and that changes his game alot (buy some time to do a smash?), and IMO makes it pretty fun to play.

;_; kinda stuck on whether I should use Sparta kick very often (kills knockback, but the speed it comes out is really useful) or save it to finish people off xD

 

[Devil7]

the sparta kick is best used any time. It has a freakin long reach since ganon has long legs and the hit box extends beyond his foot. It really good for characters with no reach like mario and sonic. I also found since it knocks straight out at low % use it to get them off the stage and around 20-30 and follow up with a well placed uair and edgehog for a kill.

 

[Tenki]

That's weird, I tend to come short on the Sparta kick at least half the time, but it could be because I'm used to a longer range on a f-tilt.

Speaking of range, is anyone here fond of the running/tackle attack? The tackle hitbox is significantly larger/more.. forward than his actual graphic, so I've been going Lucario style with it and using its range to... 'aura-hit' people. The extra boost in speed is similar to Ike's running attack and can catch people off guard. It also seems to have a stronger knockback toward the beginning of the attack (so if you use it early, the low knockback can be used to set up an aerial or even smash/Sparta kick o_O)...

 

[Devil7]

his tackle is actually really good for a mix up since like you said catches people off guard

 

[MildlyTemperate]

Whoever started this thread, LEARN HOW TO WRITE!





dickwad.

 

[bananaman]

ya he was my main in melee, now... well... i liked him better as a heavier more powerful version of captain falcon (who also was made worse). i don't really use him any more : (

 

[SCfury]

ya he was my main in melee, now... well... i liked him better as a heavier more powerful version of captain falcon (who also was made worse). i don't really use him any more : (

he still is heavy and more powerful then captain falcon..

 

[MiraiGen]

Well there's a few problems with Ganondorf: His crippled runspeed, heavier weight, the jab slowed, nerfed Fair, slower tilts, all a good start.

But given the fact that the game has been slowed drastically, it changes his gameplay from Captain Falcon But Different to Ganondorf The Immobile Rock. I've found that waiting for them to come to you, then a quick hop and a Stomp or Fair or grab. This obviously is a hugely tricky tactic against the lightning-fast MK or Shiek or Marth.

He is the worst character but the character balance is alot more centered than it used to be. Gives him some wiggle room.

 

[Devil7]

Well there's a few problems with Ganondorf: His crippled runspeed, heavier weight, the jab slowed, nerfed Fair, slower tilts, all a good start.

But given the fact that the game has been slowed drastically, it changes his gameplay from Captain Falcon But Different to Ganondorf The Immobile Rock. I've found that waiting for them to come to you, then a quick hop and a Stomp or Fair or grab. This obviously is a hugely tricky tactic against the lightning-fast MK or Shiek or Marth.

He is the worst character but the character balance is alot more centered than it used to be. Gives him some wiggle room.

first his jab isn't slower it just looks slower, his ftilt isn't slow, and his run really has absolulty nothing to do with it since you have dash danceing and thunder storming. if you battle a character with no range then its not like you have to move far to get to your opponent more so since the running tackle has a surprising range and speed. I'll agree he is the worst character, well maybe not the worst but defenintly near the bottom. but i highly disagree that brawl is more balanced.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Here is where many people's logic fails:

Firstoff, explain how it is possible for Ganondorf to be the worst character in the game, when it is completely clear he is superior to Captain Falcon.

And if you still don't know what that means, Ganondorf stomps out Falcon in kill options and combos. How can someone who has good kill options and some combos be worse than someone who can't kill and can't combo at all? There is only one thing Captain Falcon can do, and it is run away. He can't approach, he can't combo, he can't land kill moves, and he can't grab. Ganondorf can to some degree do all four of those things that Captain Falcon can't.

Ganondorf gets one good counterpick stage furthermore. Falcon doesn't. Assuming both are losing on neutral stages, Ganondorf is instantly getting more wins than Falcon because he can **** on Brinstar.

 

[Devil7]

until an official tier list is released any bad character will be called the worst be cause of people opinion. hell i seen post calling rob bottom tier. WTF. Until the tier comes out your only have bad characters like dorf and c'falcon but players will call one the worst.

 

[Astinos]

That's the problem with making a tier list, too many people disagree. Even then, tier lists are wrong in a lot of cases. Most bottom tiers just seem to consist of the least played character in a game...

 

[Devil7]

of course people are going to disagree they don't want to hear their main sucks. Its not like you hear fox mainers complaining. But the reason bottom tier characters are played less is because they suck like ganon.

 

[Astinos]

Mewtwo was right at the bottom of the melee tier list, yet people like Taj could beat people like Forward, with his Mewtwo against top tier characters.

When the tier list was made there were practically no mewtwo players, that's why he ended up bottom, because nobody took the time to see how good he was. There still isn't many mewtwo players though...

Well that aside I don't see much chance of anyone winning any tournaments with Ganon.

 

[theONEjanitor]

ganondorf is a great character.

 

[PsychoMidget]

ganondorf is a great character.

yessssssssss, I love playing as Ganon

 

[MalcolmM]

Mewtwo had a 0-10 matchup against marth and around a 9-1 with fox. thats why he never won any tournaments and thats why he was bottom tier....thousands of marth players...and with the most logical approaches and frame data and all the advanced techniques considered....mewtwo would NEVER win. Ganon may not be the best character in the game....but he certainly isnt comparable to mewtwo....he doesnt have any matchups that are HORRIBLY stacked against him and well....my confession is....i love playing ganon as well =)

 

[SCfury]

ganondorf is a great character.

best post ever made

 

[Froth]

best post ever made

Yeah.

 

[zaf]

ganon is rly fun to use, im sure this thread could of been named jiggly is the worst character

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Oh come on now, Jigglypuff's better than Captain Falcon.

 

[shadydentist]

When the tier list was made there were practically no mewtwo players, that's why he ended up bottom, because nobody took the time to see how good he was. There still isn't many mewtwo players though...

Incorrect. Mewtwo wasn't bottom tier because nobody played him. The reason that nobody played him and that he was bottom tier was that he sucked. If there was a way for mewtwo to become good, he would have attracted more players.

Gannondorf is a terrible character, but that doesn't mean I don't get beaten sometimes by good ganons.

 

[Renufus]

Sorry, but Ganon really is a horrible character. There's just way too much lag on everything and his recovery competes with Olimar's and Ivysaur's for worst in the game. Even all this wouldn't be so bad if he had some way to combat projectile spam, or even a projectile of his own. Almost everyone is a Ganon counterpick for one reason or another. Which really sucks, because I was going to main him before I found out how much he got screwed.

I was really excited to hear that he came back with his TP model, was even more excited about the possibility of him using that badass sword of his. Instead all he gets is a whole lot of slow and a lame running animation. Ike is what Ganondorf should have been.

 

[Iwan]

Oh come on now, Jigglypuff's better than Captain Falcon.

Totally disagree.
lol .

 

[PK-ow!]

Incorrect. Mewtwo wasn't bottom tier because nobody played him. The reason that nobody played him and that he was bottom tier was that he sucked. If there was a way for mewtwo to become good, he would have attracted more players.

Gannondorf is a terrible character, but that doesn't mean I don't get beaten sometimes by good ganons.

Wait, either bottom tier means that no one played him (and thus, neither fact caused the other), or his being bottom tier consisted in, or was realized by the property of, his suckiness.

I don't know of any other meaning or use of 'tier', that allows it to be the case that a character's suckiness *and* disuse cause his lower-tier existence.
Help me out?

 

[Renufus]

Wait, either bottom tier means that no one played him (and thus, neither fact caused the other), or his being bottom tier consisted in, or was realized by the property of, his suckiness.

I don't know of any other meaning or use of 'tier', that allows it to be the case that a character's suckiness *and* disuse cause his lower-tier existence.
Help me out?

Cause and effect. A character's disuse is a result of their suckiness. People don't like to play unusable characters when there's money on the line.

 

[Tenki]

Sorry, but Ganon really is a horrible character. There's just way too much lag on everything and his recovery competes with Olimar's and Ivysaur's for worst in the game. Even all this wouldn't be so bad if he had some way to combat projectile spam, or even a projectile of his own. Almost everyone is a Ganon counterpick for one reason or another. Which really sucks, because I was going to main him before I found out how much he got screwed.

I was really excited to hear that he came back with his TP model, was even more excited about the possibility of him using that badass sword of his. Instead all he gets is a whole lot of slow and a lame running animation. Ike is what Ganondorf should have been.

there's alot of lag on Ganondorf's: jab, f-tilt, u-air, n-air, b-air. i always get punished every time i used those moves! maaan! and his shield never blocks projectiles either! wtf!

oh crap, Ike doesn't have lag after he does his Fsmashes? ohsht! ima stop learning ganondorf and go back to Ike now!
/sarcasm

Obviously, from this kind of reasoning, Ike must suck as well because he has alot of lag (before/after) doing his smashes, his f-air, counter, d-air, d-tilt. And if you knock him low and off the level, he can't recover too well, either. Aether can only move horizontally so much, and there's little chance of an attack (eg, projectile) disrupting it so that you can use it a second time to get back on the level.

Note how I didn't mention things such as his QD for mobility, his jab/faster/lower-lag attacks, or his SAF for Eruption and Aether. Just his weaknesses.

Ganondorf has many, MANY moves that go under the same category as Ike's Fsmash, aerials, etc- strong moves with lots of lag that you SHOULDN'T be spamming (eg... Fair-over-ground), but he does have moves that have low delay on either end (before/after attacking).

While Ike and many characters' strengths can be found in spacing, I find Ganon's strength in his tech-chasing game. Provided you can shield/dodge projectiles and spacing attacks, you can get in range for your attacks to hit, and if you can land a Flame Choke, you gain control. Each Flame Choke that you can land (and follow up with a jab or standing d-tilt/other move) is basically worth at LEAST 20%, and if you can hit your follow-up, then you set them up for an aerial juggle/finish. Other people mention moving/using fsmash after Flame Choke- there are lots of options to do after it. Sure, most characters handle differently when it comes to mid/long range, but the majority of them are treated the same way when it comes to Flame Choke. It's basically Ganondorf's stomping ground (no pun intended).

I personally find his Up-B to be a pretty good recovery- it covers a surprising amount of vertical height, and if you make contact with someone trying to chase you off level, at least you get it back >_>

[edit]
lol other characters have "Official _____ discussion thread". i love how "Ganondorf is the worst character in game" is the ganon discussion thread :D

 

[TheLake]

Water gun works on ganon.

Enough said.

 

[SCfury]

there's alot of lag on Ganondorf's: jab, f-tilt, u-air, n-air, b-air. i always get punished every time i used those moves! maaan! and his shield never blocks projectiles either! wtf!

oh crap, Ike doesn't have lag after he does his Fsmashes? ohsht! ima stop learning ganondorf and go back to Ike now!
/sarcasm

Obviously, from this kind of reasoning, Ike must suck as well because he has alot of lag (before/after) doing his smashes, his f-air, counter, d-air, d-tilt. And if you knock him low and off the level, he can't recover too well, either. Aether can only move horizontally so much, and there's little chance of an attack (eg, projectile) disrupting it so that you can use it a second time to get back on the level.

Note how I didn't mention things such as his QD for mobility, his jab/faster/lower-lag attacks, or his SAF for Eruption and Aether. Just his weaknesses.

Ganondorf has many, MANY moves that go under the same category as Ike's Fsmash, aerials, etc- strong moves with lots of lag that you SHOULDN'T be spamming (eg... Fair-over-ground), but he does have moves that have low delay on either end (before/after attacking).

While Ike and many characters' strengths can be found in spacing, I find Ganon's strength in his tech-chasing game. Provided you can shield/dodge projectiles and spacing attacks, you can get in range for your attacks to hit, and if you can land a Flame Choke, you gain control. Each Flame Choke that you can land (and follow up with a jab or standing d-tilt/other move) is basically worth at LEAST 20%, and if you can hit your follow-up, then you set them up for an aerial juggle/finish. Other people mention moving/using fsmash after Flame Choke- there are lots of options to do after it. Sure, most characters handle differently when it comes to mid/long range, but the majority of them are treated the same way when it comes to Flame Choke. It's basically Ganondorf's stomping ground (no pun intended).

I personally find his Up-B to be a pretty good recovery- it covers a surprising amount of vertical height, and if you make contact with someone trying to chase you off level, at least you get it back >_>

[edit]
lol other characters have "Official _____ discussion thread". i love how "Ganondorf is the worst character in game" is the ganon discussion thread :D

u-air if performed right when you short hopped has no lag
kinda like thunder storming

b-air is not that much lag

jab is fine because its pretty strong

f-air is laggy but idk what else is

 

[MiraiGen]

That's kind of faulty logic there, Tenki. I mean Gdorf doesn't even have near the range that Ike does, and Ike at least has a counter and Quickdraw. You could argue that Warlock Fist (or whatever it's called) his Forward B gives him speed, but there's tons of lag on it and besides, Ike's can be charged and used instantly for quick results, while Ganon just kind of flops onto the ground and gets up cause he's got bad knees.

However, I do agree with you. It seems to me that alot of the complaints have been from Melee Gdorf players, and to be honest he's not the same character anymore. The attacks that should be used right now are probably Dtilt, Ftilt, and Neut A, maybe NAir too. I dunno, I'd have to go see.

Regardless he's alot slower now so you need to be tons more careful with him.

 

[McBadass]

he's dec. Ya just gotta expieriment with him. He's prty slo tho.

 

[Tenki]

@scfury
sorry xD that was still part of the sarcasm... i was mentioning his fastest moves and saying that they get punished (though I have yet to be 'punished' for using those lol)

sorry for being vague, that other post was really annoying

That's kind of faulty logic there, Tenki. I mean Gdorf doesn't even have near the range that Ike does, and Ike at least has a counter and Quickdraw. You could argue that Warlock Fist (or whatever it's called) his Forward B gives him speed, but there's tons of lag on it and besides, Ike's can be charged and used instantly for quick results, while Ganon just kind of flops onto the ground and gets up cause he's got bad knees.

However, I do agree with you. It seems to me that alot of the complaints have been from Melee Gdorf players, and to be honest he's not the same character anymore. The attacks that should be used right now are probably Dtilt, Ftilt, and Neut A, maybe NAir too. I dunno, I'd have to go see.

Regardless he's alot slower now so you need to be tons more careful with him.

While Ike and many characters' strengths can be found in spacing, I find Ganon's strength in his tech-chasing game. Provided you can shield/dodge projectiles and spacing attacks, you can get in range for your attacks to hit, and if you can land a Flame Choke, you gain control.

Yep. I agree now, and at least, I felt like my previous post agreed as well lol. Ganondorf's strength isn't in spacing or movement - but again, once you hit a Flame Choke (and hopefully, follow-up correctly) the enemy is in your hands (or boots.. whatever). Also, if I wanted to cover horizontal distance, I'd use Ganon kick (? down b)- it's the fastest option, and the second fastest is dash-tackle spam, I think...

If there's one last comparison I'll make between Ganondorf and Ike, 1v1 trading hit/damage for Flame Choke's grab is like having SAF.

and on the topic of SAF, I noticed a few times today that I'd get attacked while doing Flame Choke and not get knocked back or interrupted. I didn't get to test since it was mid-battle, but if this is indeed a Super Armor, it occurs some time between lifting the person up and shooting/dropping them to the floor. If anyone wants to confirm this or shoot it down, please do so

 

[MiraiGen]

Hm, okay, sorry about that, I think I just read you wrong. I suppose you were right all along.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Water gun works on ganon.

Enough said.

FLUDD and Water Gun are AMAZING against most recoveries if you can aim a fully charged one just right. What's the big deal that Ganondorf too gets gimped from those two attacks? FLUDD and Water Gun are MASSIVELY UNDERRATED by the general population. If you want me to go more in depth about FLUDD, I will.

Of course, that's not actually to imply Ganondorf is good. I'm just trying to point out to you that that isn't the real reason he's horrible.

 

[litlwing]

he does have super armor while hes holding them in the air (only good against some sort of outside force other than your opponent or in multi brawls) but when he grabs them it just out prioritizes the opponents attack like all grabs do... and ganon doesnt actually fall when he uses his foward B like he did in melee, captain falcon still does but ganon remains standing.

 

[Tenki]

yeah, side-B in close range->grab is like having SAF in 1v1 because of the grab priority.

also, here's something interesting I think ganondorf players should take a peek at.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=T8LTkqYFcd0

it's in the first 10 seconds of the match.

srsly people, shield.

 

[MiraiGen]

Wow.

Shield, indeed.