Ganondorf Balance Changes With Patch 1.0.4

[Daeyrat]

so it's like... 3-5f faster?

 

[Panchito]

Could be just me, but does Side Special feel like it comes out a bit faster?

 

[TheBearsnake]

He feels noticeably faster altogether. Anyone tested if he runs faster? can't tell with wizkick but choke *feels* like it goes longer.
key word feels.

 

[Lozjam]

He feels noticeably faster altogether. Anyone tested if he runs faster? can't tell with wizkick but choke *feels* like it goes longer.
key word feels.

I've noticed he runs faster but I have no proof to confirm it. But I am pretty sure he runs faster. I played a FG match against some Japanese fella, who used Marth, boy I now love Ganondorf even more. I guess Ganondorf decided to become less merciful and shed some of the shackles that kept him.

 

[Kiyosuki]

Oh wow I feel that speed increase too. It's very slight but noticable.

I hope that's actually there and not just placebo from me reading these comments. lol

 

[Primer TMT]

Didn't Fsmash and sp Usmash do 25% damage before?
They do 24% now.

Doesn't the weak hit of DA seem weaker, setting up more combes more easily?

Dudes idk if all of you know but, every attack in training mode, does 1% and sometimes 2% less, than a normal match, check it for yourselfs

Fsmash does 25%
Usmash 25%
Dsmash 22%
Fair 16% sour 17% sweetspoted
Bair 16% sour 17% Sweetspoted (18% sweetspoted when opponents has 1% or more)
Dair 19% with 0% and does 20% when the opponents has 1 or more %
Nair 22%
Uair 13%

 

[Swoops]

I can't record atm.
But for instance, you can land with Nair and almost immediately move. Landing Nair > Ftilt is sweet.
It's nowhere near Sheik-level, of course, but really fast.

Ganongasm. Is everybody thinking what I'm thinking?

With the supposed dthrow changes, dthrow > SH NAir, follow ups possible?

 

[Kiyosuki]

Ganongasm. Is everybody thinking what I'm thinking?

With the supposed dthrow changes, dthrow > SH NAir, follow ups possible?

 

[Daeyrat]

In 1.0.4 now. Nothing feels faster. Now, if everything else is the same, reverse qarlock got a buff. Kills Mid omega battlefield mario at 20 instead of 25%.

 

[HeavyLobster]

D-Throw -> Dropkick combos are easier to perform, and I've been able to get sourspot DA -> Uair to combo at high %s. D-Throw -> DA is also guaranteed at somewhat lower %s, and D-Throw -> Wizkick works at similar %s, though at a wider range of %s than D-throw -> DA and is easier to pull off. Ganon's punish game seems to be more reliable in general now that he has some real combos, and some of his attack strings seem better as well.

 

[_Magus_]

*does happy dance*

Praise the dorf!

 

[stingers]

hmm move over rosie, time for the lord to take his rightful place

 

[Daeyrat]

Double jump fair no longer produces lag. Maybe fair s air recovery goy reduced.

 

[Swoops]

D-Throw -> Dropkick combos are easier to perform, and I've been able to get sourspot DA -> Uair to combo at high %s. D-Throw -> DA is also guaranteed at somewhat lower %s, and D-Throw -> Wizkick works at similar %s, though at a wider range of %s than D-throw -> DA and is easier to pull off. Ganon's punish game seems to be more reliable in general now that he has some real combos, and some of his attack strings seem better as well.

Have you been able to test dthrow > NAir?

I'm wondering, based on NAir's second hit box, if we would be able to start mixing up a SH single hit NAair or SH double hit NAir on the opponent's shield. Add that in to WDK, flame choke, and a dash attack that beats everything/crosses up shields...could we possibly have a legitimate (albeit somewhat lackluster) approach game???!

 

[Krazy4Krash]

Doing a side-by-side comparison with both versions, all of Ganondorf's aerials have less landing lag. However, aerial Wizard's Foot does not. As far as I can tell, none of his special moves are different in any way, at least regarding cooldown. The same applies to all his ground attacks (jab, tilts, smashes, dash attack). Up Smash is just as interruptible as it was before.

Also, in 1.0.4, you can still cancel the lag of a fullhop forward aerial with a special move. Bless.

 

[Watulio]

Nair seems to sweetspot more now. I deal 21% rather than 19% now

 

[Ray_Kalm]

As far as I can tell, none of his special moves are different in any way, at least regarding cooldown. .

His wizard foot does come out a tad bit faster in startup, from what I'm testing.

 

[Twoyears]

Not a Ganon specific change but I heard that DACUS is removed. I hope that this isn't true because I was really looking forward to putting my boot in other people's chins.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Not a Ganon specific change but I heard that DACUS is removed. I hope that this isn't true because I was really looking forward to putting my boot in other people's chins.

That's funny, I was thinking the same thing, but I think you misspelled "N-air".

 

[Xinc]

So is the landing lag after the second hit decreased? Or if you just short hop and get the first one, is the lag still the same? Just making sure.

I haven't gotten the 1.04 update yet and don't intend to until tomorrow around 3pm. So if there's anything you want me to check, lemme know please. Thanks.

 

[Z1GMA]

His wizard foot does come out a tad bit faster in startup, from what I'm testing.

Dude, it's like a long-range Dash Attack now instead of a sluggish B-move.
The small amount of time it takes for it to travel such a long way is impressive.

So is the landing lag after the second hit decreased? Or if you just short hop and get the first one, is the lag still the same? Just making sure.

I haven't gotten the 1.04 update yet and don't intend to until tomorrow around 3pm. So if there's anything you want me to check, lemme know please. Thanks.

You could test the speed of Jab. It doesn't look faster to me, but 1 frame can sometimes be hard to notice.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Dude, it's like a long-range Dash Attack now instead of a sluggish B-move.
The small amount of time it takes for it to travel such a long way is impressive.


You could test the speed of Jab. It doesn't look faster to me, but 1 frame can sometimes be hard to notice.

Just removing the little lag it had makes it so much better. I've gotten legitimate strings of wizard kicks one after another. And the combo potential it gives you is amazing.

 

[Lozjam]

I actually think that Wizards Foot is legitimately better than Wizards Drop Kick now. The speed boost makes it a lot better, and considering it does more damage too. Plus Ganondorf now has a fast almost lagless move to protect himself with his nair.

 

[Daeyrat]

It's nowhere near Drop Kick's level of usefulness.

Wizkick is just an extra move. Nothing revolutionary. Just an advancing, unsafe move.
Dropkick hops over projectiles (something ganon needs) and immensely helps ganon get back to the stage (another tool ganon needs). It's not hard to decide.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Unsafe? Where did you get that conclusion? Hopping over projectiles doesn't make a move automatically safe. Wizkick is perfectly usable, and there's definitely a decision factor to consider when picking between wizkick or wizard drop kick.

 

[WwwWario]

Remember, The Drop Kick can jump over enemies as well... as long as you're standing close enough. It's also a lot harder to spike with it (if it can spike at all). I like to (and want to xD) call it a personal playstile choice.

I'm not good at spotting small changes, but can anyone post a video of 1.0.3 and 1.0.4 comparison with the Dorf? I'd like to see that the Wizkick is faster now (I don't know myself, but it does actually feel a bit faster and longer). I'd also love to see the rumor of all of his areals having slightly less ending lag.

But something I noticed: Is it just me, or is the ending lag of Areal Flame Chocke slightly decreased?

 

[Daeyrat]

Unsafe? Where did you get that conclusion? Hopping over projectiles doesn't make a move automatically safe. Wizkick is perfectly usable, and there's definitely a decision factor to consider when picking between wizkick or wizard drop kick.

Wizkick is unsafe. You block it. You punish it. It adds very little to Ganon's arsenal.
Dropkick is not safe, but it hops over projectiles and hits the enemy while they're still recovering, so it does something that Ganon needs and other moves don't do well.
PLUS, the recovery factor. Aerial Dropkick buffs immensely Ganon's recovery.
Same goes for Dark Fists. It gives new tools, making Ganon be able to do good stuff he isn't able to do without it.

Edit: Wasn't the wizard kick buff disconfirmed by Thinkaman's side by side?

 

[Xinc]

It's nowhere near Drop Kick's level of usefulness.

Wizkick is just an extra move. Nothing revolutionary. Just an advancing, unsafe move.
Dropkick hops over projectiles (something ganon needs) and immensely helps ganon get back to the stage (another tool ganon needs). It's not hard to decide.

The ability of hopping over projectiles is good in certain matchups, but has little use in certain other matches. It's all MU dependent.

 

[WwwWario]

Wizkick is unsafe. You block it. You punish it. It adds very little to Ganon's arsenal.
Dropkick is not safe, but it hops over projectiles and hits the enemy while they're still recovering, so it does something that Ganon needs and other moves don't do well.
PLUS, the recovery factor. Aerial Dropkick buffs immensely Ganon's recovery.
Same goes for Dark Fists. It gives new tools, making Ganon be able to do good stuff he isn't able to do without it.

Edit: Wasn't the wizard kick buff disconfirmed by Thinkaman's side by side?

Oh for God's sake, please tell me it isn't deconfirmed. The Dorf needs all of the buffs he can get

 

[Daeyrat]

The hoping indeed, but I can't give up on the godlike recovery. I just can't.

Oh for God's sake, please tell me it isn't deconfirmed. The Dorf needs all of the buffs he can get

http://smashboards.com/threads/community-patch-notes-v1-0-4.378404/page-38
Here, Thinkaman is disconfirming 90% of the placebo changes. It seems most of ZSS' changes were false too.

It's natural to think something is changed. When a patch like this comes out, people start testing and testing and sometimes they notice something is better/worse than they thought (because they did not test properly before).

 

[kro_]

Wizkick is unsafe. You block it. You punish it. It adds very little to Ganon's arsenal.
Dropkick is not safe, but it hops over projectiles and hits the enemy while they're still recovering, so it does something that Ganon needs and other moves don't do well.
PLUS, the recovery factor. Aerial Dropkick buffs immensely Ganon's recovery.
Same goes for Dark Fists. It gives new tools, making Ganon be able to do good stuff he isn't able to do without it.

Edit: Wasn't the wizard kick buff disconfirmed by Thinkaman's side by side?

Use it after a Flame Choke if you know your opponent tends to roll away from you, or off the edge to avoid getting punished

Not as bad as you think

 

[Opana]

@SamuraiPanda

- Ganondorf's aerials decreased landing lag (except Nair)

confirmed

Except Nair?

 

[Z1GMA]

Wizkick is unsafe.

It's unsafe if you just throw it out there, but it's perfectly safe paired with good reactions and a keen eye.

Sometimes it's Ganon's only option to get a momentum-swing.

 

[Orsone]

Are you sure that in 1.0.3 Ganondorf could full hop and air dodge without landing lag? Because now I can FH->AD->FF without any landing lag and I don't remember doing it before.

 

[Xinc]

Dude, it's like a long-range Dash Attack now instead of a sluggish B-move.
The small amount of time it takes for it to travel such a long way is impressive.


You could test the speed of Jab. It doesn't look faster to me, but 1 frame can sometimes be hard to notice.

It looks unchanged.

Spoiler

Couldn't get a recording of mine before my cousin decided to do me the favor of updating my 3ds when I went out. >.<

I made a gif of Gungnir's Ganon video with his jab here: http://www.gfycat.com/ImpossibleBewitchedCanvasback
1.04: http://gfycat.com/SamePepperyAltiplanochinchillamouse

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Cheers Ganon Mains!

 

[adom4]

Cheers Ganon Mains!

That's awesome!
I only noticed the reduced lag on Dorf's Nair, i didn't know it was for all of them.

 

[Hi-Hatz]

^ I made that video. ^
So I did it right? I wanted to make sure the aerial timing didn't matter as long as I synched the landings.

 

[WwwWario]

Cheers Ganon Mains!

Well, Dorf is buffed. I love it! Will slight ending lag reductions like this affect gameplay much, actually? :\ I mean, will it help much? Either way, it's great to see some buffs on ALL of ganon's areals! ^^

 

[Vermanubis]

Thanks for showing us, Aoi, and thanks fo rmaking it, Hatz.

@ WwwWario : imo it won't mean much. The NAir buff is significant, but the others are pretty vestigial, it seems. But who knows? Maybe those few frames could save your life.