Ganon Strategies and Gameplay Discussion.

[Spralwers]

There are several occasions as a Ganon player where it's tempting to punish someone with SH dair. If the opposing player isn't in quite enough endlag for the SH dair to land, a footstool might be a cool option.

 

[Bazkip]

Also to add onto the dash attack, there's a disjoint, at the very least on the weak part. Was doing some testing in the lab and it clashed with Ivy's vines o_o I'm guessing the strong part has a disjoint too.

I'll experiment with the footstooling. The conditioning is definitely important haha

Disjoints don't matter for ground moves, only for aerials.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Priority

 

[Spralwers]

Disjoints don't matter for ground moves, only for aerials.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Priority

Oh wow. Gonna have to spend a few hours one day sitting down and reading about all the mechanics. I just learned about pivoting today too <_<

 

[bandi]

Let's stay on the topic on pivoting - how the heck do you pivot=>ftilt?
I love to dash dance with Ganon, although it's not very good. A pivot => ftilt would make my crazy dash dance, as well as my spacing, more effective.

 

[teluoborg]

Press A before releasing back in your pivot.

And Ganon's dash dance is mad good thanks to his dash attack and side B. Foxtrot is pretty fine too.

 

[Spralwers]

With C stick dashing, it becomes so easy to do foxtrots. Does Ganon actually travel faster by foxtrotting?

 

[CORY]

i don't know if he travels faster, but it feels like he travels more precisely, since you never get stuck in your run animation.

 

[Spralwers]

Also, start at 5:40 of this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am959b9AQ7g&list=UUk9a4mSBdCr3xF4tCr-8vEw

Notice how Marth doesn't bounce off of Ganon's aerial side B. It looks like he DI'd down? Or was it the stage?

 

[Scuba Steve]

Also, start at 5:40 of this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am959b9AQ7g&list=UUk9a4mSBdCr3xF4tCr-8vEw

Notice how Marth doesn't bounce off of Ganon's aerial side B. It looks like he DI'd down? Or was it the stage?

I was playing a doubles match one time and I saw the exact same thing happen, except it was on a Sheik. I have no idea what made it happen, though.

Also, Ganon's dashdance is usable, like any other member of the cast, but let's not kid ourselves here. Ganon's dashdance is ass compared to most other characters. The only character I can think of with a worse one is Bowser.

 

[teluoborg]

@Sprawlers that just looks like the slants on YS are broken

Also by foxtrot I mean spamming Ganon's initial dash : it's short, fast and doesn't get him anywhere. It's prettu good for adjusting your spacing when you add it to your dash dance game.
Idk, I find it pretty useful but I've never seen a Ganon use it in video.

Also on another topic : you can SHWL Uair and Bair (Short Hop Wave Land ? Is that a term ?) and it's pretty good for spacing and shenanigans.

 

[Scuba Steve]

@Sprawlers that just looks like the slants on YS are broken

It's not just Yoshi's. I've had it happen on Battlefield.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

I've seen it done several times done by pro players, referring to the lack of bouncing, but I'm not sure how they did it. It definitely helped them stay alive though, it happened so quick that their opponent had no opportunity to account for it.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

So, I've been messing around with footstools:

http://www.twitch.tv/punkpanda777/b/520534996?t=86m
http://www.twitch.tv/punkpanda777/b/520534996?t=147m30s

and here's something non-footstool related:

http://www.twitch.tv/punkpanda777/b/520534996?t=74m14s

lol

 

[Scuba Steve]

So, I've been messing around with footstools:

http://www.twitch.tv/punkpanda777/b/520534996?t=86m
http://www.twitch.tv/punkpanda777/b/520534996?t=147m30s

and here's something non-footstool related:

http://www.twitch.tv/punkpanda777/b/520534996?t=74m14s

lol

Sweet baby jesus, those stomp combos on Snake. I HAVE TO START USING FOOTSTOOLING.

 

[Spralwers]

For some reason I love Fountain of Dreams as a Ganon stage. My combo potential suddenly shoots through the roof because of the low platforms, and it really seems to mess up characters with projectiles. Also when the platforms are lower, you can do a horizontal wiz kick off them, then Ganon will recover with a stylish and much less laggy (and thus harder to punish) front flip.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Yeah, small stages in general are pretty good for Ganon. Another stage that's really good for him is metal cavern, though I think it's banned. It can make things really hard for certain projectile campers.

 

[Scuba Steve]

For some reason I love Fountain of Dreams as a Ganon stage. My combo potential suddenly shoots through the roof because of the low platforms, and it really seems to mess up characters with projectiles. Also when the platforms are lower, you can do a horizontal wiz kick off them, then Ganon will recover with a stylish and much less laggy (and thus harder to punish) front flip.

Never really thought about using the platforms to down-b on. I mostly stay away from fountain just because I like to use a lot of autocancelled nairs and the platforms can mess those up. Might start leaving it unbanned now, though.

 

[Nguz95]

How many of you guys use platform drop bair to edgeguard spacies and other chars with linear recoveries?

 

[Arctic]

Quick recovery question: I keep getting dair spiked by falco when recovering. How can I avoid this because my side b is useless and he keeps getting me on the up b if I recover low. Any tips or do I just need to learn how to sweet spot the ledge?

 

[Prince Longstrok]

So, im having a hell of a time against Ivy simply because i just dont know how to edge guard her >:/

Im too afraid to go deep because i know she cant vinewhip at anytime and snag the ledge away from me while i try and come back.

I heard that there is a good way to easily edguard her, but i simpy dont know how xD. Any ideas?

 

[Scuba Steve]

Quick recovery question: I keep getting dair spiked by falco when recovering. How can I avoid this because my side b is useless and he keeps getting me on the up b if I recover low. Any tips or do I just need to learn how to sweet spot the ledge?

You just need to sweetspot better if he is dairing you from onstage

So, im having a hell of a time against Ivy simply because i just dont know how to edge guard her >:/

Im too afraid to go deep because i know she cant vinewhip at anytime and snag the ledge away from me while i try and come back.

I heard that there is a good way to easily edguard her, but i simpy dont know how xD. Any ideas?

Grab ledge, wait til they reel in, let go of the ledge, and up air. Ace does it really well in these games. It's a bit risky, though, since if you whiff the up air they can easily edgehog you.
http://youtu.be/GmsLNSxMI7E?t=1m12s

Another thing you can do is wait for them to reel in to force them into ledgejump or whatever it's called, and quickly ledgehop into an upair.

 

[Windstar120025]

I hate Fighting Ganon for Multiple reasons his Hitbox/Power&knock-back ratio is just realy dang high. And this works in his advantage obviously . As a Sonic Main (still waiting for his proper buff) I know just how hard it is having to try and work around it, and it doesnt help that his attack speed ratio is still in his advantage against sonic. But in a general Just sit on Ledge and drop jump forward air onto stage will get you past most none sword wielding opponents best of Luck.

 

[Scuba Steve]

I hate Fighting Ganon for Multiple reasons his Hitbox/Power&knock-back ratio is just realy dang high. And this works in his advantage obviously . As a Sonic Main (still waiting for his proper buff) I know just how hard it is having to try and work around it, and it doesnt help that his attack speed ratio is still in his advantage against sonic. But in a general Just sit on Ledge and drop jump forward air onto stage will get you past most none sword wielding opponents best of Luck.

All I see is johns

 

[Prince Longstrok]

I hate Fighting Ganon for Multiple reasons his Hitbox/Power&knock-back ratio is just realy dang high. And this works in his advantage obviously . As a Sonic Main (still waiting for his proper buff) I know just how hard it is having to try and work around it, and it doesnt help that his attack speed ratio is still in his advantage against sonic. But in a general Just sit on Ledge and drop jump forward air onto stage will get you past most none sword wielding opponents best of Luck.

Just run away from us, really. What are we going to do, grab you?

HAHAHAHAHA.

but no really, our grab range is literally our nipples

 

[Strawhat Jiggs]

Just run away from us, really. What are we going to do, grab you?

HAHAHAHAHA.

but no really, our grab range is literally our nipples

That is sadly extremely true. Ganon needs a nipple buff!

 

[Prince Longstrok]

That is sadly extremely true. Ganon needs a nipple buff!

Literally, thats ALL we need!
We are not a bad character by any means, and frankly id rather them not buff him too much at all to avoid the whole "LOL GNAON IS OP NOW AHAHA". Just make his grab hit a bit lower for stupid characters like Squirtle, and make him not have a dumb t-rex arm. Im not asking for a fire emblem grab range here.

We just need someone who knows what they are doing to get into some tournies Im going to Big House 4, so ill do what I can for my brothers >:3

 

[Strawhat Jiggs]

Literally, thats ALL we need!
We are not a bad character by any means, and frankly id rather them not buff him too much at all to avoid the whole "LOL GNAON IS OP NOW AHAHA". Just make his grab hit a bit lower for stupid characters like Squirtle, and make him not have a dumb t-rex arm. Im not asking for a fire emblem grab range here.

We just need someone who knows what they are doing to get into some tournies Im going to Big House 4, so ill do what I can for my brothers >:3

I completely agree. Ganon only needs a bit of grab tweaking

 

[Nguz95]

Just a reminder, this is the Strategies and Gameplay Discussion thread.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Just a reminder, this is the Strategies and Gameplay Discussion thread.

My bad.

alrighty, here is the strategy. Lets kidnap a PMBR member and make them give us a slightly better grab. :D

 

[Strawhat Jiggs]

My bad.

alrighty, here is the strategy. Lets kidnap a PMBR member and make them give us a slightly better grab. :D

GREAT STRATS 10 out of 10
but really I know ganon can chain grab but who specifically can he chain grab?

 

[Nguz95]

Fast fallers are the most obvious ones. He can use both uthrow and dthrow to chain spacies specifically. I believe dthrow is better for characters like cfal and diddy. Beyond fast fallers, I'm not sure.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

Spacies you can chain throw at low percents with u-throw, the rest is dependant.

With Zelda, you can get off a flamechoke after downthrow B)

 

[Spralwers]

The only characters he can't chaingrab are super floaties like Zelda and Samus.

Ignoring platforms and other stage obstacles - every other character he can chain grab until at least 25-30. He can chaingrab characters like Link and DK to 50%, and characters like Roy to 70-80%. You need to make really good judgements on when to go for dash grab, JC grab, turn around grab, and grab in place as you get to higher %s. You can also very easily react to DI, but you need to practice with it so you can get a feel for all the different trajectories. The different trajectories will affect what sort of grab to go for. I actually don't chain grab enough and need to do it more.

 

[Prince Longstrok]

The only characters he can't chaingrab are super floaties like Zelda and Samus.

Ignoring platforms and other stage obstacles - every other character he can chain grab until at least 25-30. He can chaingrab characters like Link and DK to 50%, and characters like Roy to 70-80%. You need to make really good judgements on when to go for dash grab, JC grab, turn around grab, and grab in place as you get to higher %s. You can also very easily react to DI, but you need to practice with it so you can get a feel for all the different trajectories. The different trajectories will affect what sort of grab to go for. I actually don't chain grab enough and need to do it more.

You can get a psuedo chain grab on zelda a la down throw, aerial flamechoke, downthrow, aerial flamechoke, etc.

 

[Nguz95]

...That sounds absolutely filthy.

 

[ShadowGanon]

You can get a psuedo chain grab on zelda a la down throw, aerial flamechoke, downthrow, aerial flamechoke, etc.

I actually found that a few weeks back. I was super excited when I found it, but it doesn't actually work. When I found it, I was practicing on a lv. 9 CPU, and CPUs are stupid when comes to reacting out of hitstun. All the Zelda has to do is mash fair/bair or Nayru's and they get out of it every time.

 

[Scuba Steve]

I actually found that a few weeks back. I was super excited when I found it, but it doesn't actually work. When I found it, I was practicing on a lv. 9 CPU, and CPUs are stupid when comes to reacting out of hitstun. All the Zelda has to do is mash fair/bair or Nayru's and they get out of it every time.

That's why it's a pseudo chaingrab

 

[Strawhat Jiggs]

Speaking of flamechoke what do you think is the best option for ganon out of flamechoke cuz i usually use d-tilt or down-b if at kill %. Any thoughts?

 

[Scuba Steve]

Depends on if it's grounded or aerial and what character it is.

 

[Nguz95]

True. I prefer Wiz Kick because it can easily cover both directional techs. If they standing tech, I still have the option to jab them instead. Basically I just crouch and react accordingly.