Ganon Strategies and Gameplay Discussion.

[CORY]

but isn't he like... laglessy landing from his rise?

this ****'s weird, man.

 

[Bazkip]

but isn't he like... laglessy landing from his rise?

this ****'s weird, man.

idk magic or something

 

[CORY]

DARKDANK magic

 

[Bazkip]

The real question is what do we call it
I'd like to suggest "The Baz Vortex"

 

[CheCray]

Want more useless tech? No? Here you go.



NIL AFC done by doing a full hop and doing an AFC at just the right time, the timing is difficult but not impossible. I can see it being doable in matches under pressure. It's pretty useless except for Baz's suggestion of covering platforms. Currently labbing to get more precise info on how to do it

 

[CORY]

Yeah, that height is awkward, but I can see platform coverage being a thing.

 

[Taytertot]

Ganon is actually top tier

Not actually all that useful lol, but still pretty cool.

this may be possible with all characters (as long as they can autocancel an aerial and still have a frame before landing due to a physics quark from brawl that causes a delay in momentum from double jumps by, i believe, a frame. the physics differences between melee and PM are talked about heavily in this video and i think he talks about the momentum delay from double jumps at the time i set the link to.

https://youtu.be/R3UbHAq4Tk0?t=27m10s

i could be wrong but my theory is that this is the physics delay that causes this to be possible. though it may be effected by the way different characters landing collision works when they enter a double jump animation or both.

 

[Bazkip]

this may be possible with all characters (as long as they can autocancel an aerail and still have a frame before landing due to a physics quark from brawl that causes a delay in momentum from double jumps by, i believe, a frame. the different physics things that are different between melee and PM are talked about heavily in this video and i think he talks about the momentum delay from double jumps at the time i set the link to.

https://youtu.be/R3UbHAq4Tk0?t=27m10s

i could be wrong but my theory is that this is the physics delay that causes this to be possible. though it may be effected by the way different characters landing collision works when they enter a double jump animation.

...evidently you didn't watch the whole video because I talked about why it happens and what conditions are needed for it to be possible.

 

[Taytertot]

...evidently you didn't watch the whole video because I talked about why it happens and what conditions are needed for it to be possible.

ah hahaha no i didnt sorry. i saw the beginning and thought there might be a connection with the physics quark that PMDepot talks about.

 

[Bazkip]

ah hahaha no i didnt sorry. i saw the beginning and thought there might be a connection with the physics quark that PMDepot talks about.

You are correct (other than your statement about autocancels, what's required is being actionable), but it was just a bit silly telling me that when I know and it's in the video.

 

[Taytertot]

You are correct (other than your statement about autocancels, what's required is being actionable), but it was just a bit silly telling me that when I know and it's in the video.

yeah i got a little excited when i made the connection in my mind and wanted to post it before thinking to check and see if you had figured it out. hahaha

 

[Bazkip]

I just realized sideB puts our ledge grab box a little lower

This must be why sometimes I sideB when it looks like I'm even with the stage but end up being too low and dying
****

 

[Bazkip]

Okay so I went and checked what our options for cape reset are
afaik all neutral getups are intangible frame 1-22, and actionable frame 30
We become actionable frame 10

Things that don't work:
Utilt (if you're going for strong hit only)
Upsmash
Dair
Sword taunt (lol)

Things that do work:
Errything else baby
Note - AFC becomes active on the opponents first actionable frame, so the vast majority of the cast can't do anything about it, but Jiggs can rest and Samus can upB
Bowser can upB and spacies can shine but I'm almost certain we'll still win due to grab priority
Note 2 - If you wanted to dash attack you'll need to dash back first since I'm pretty sure otherwise you'll just go right past them

Recommended action:
Wiz Foot at high percent, otherwise grab

Stylish action:
Aerial Wiz Foot (ayy lmao)

Edit:

Will aerial b work for platform missed techs, or do I need to land and do the grounded?

Oh damn
How did nobody ever think of this until now

Yeah I don't see any reason why that wouldn't work

Would also open up the possibility of dair since we wouldn't have to wait for jumpsquat

 

[CORY]

Things that do work:
Errything else baby

double jump non fast fall fair?

 

[CORY]

Okay so I went and checked what our options for cape reset are
afaik all neutral getups are intangible frame 1-22, and actionable frame 30
We become actionable frame 10

Things that don't work:
Utilt
Upsmash
Dair
Sword taunt (lol)

Things that do work:
Errything else baby
Note - AFC becomes active on opponents first actionable frame, so the vast majority of the cast can't do anything about it, but Jiggs can rest and Samus can upB
Bowser can upB and spacies can shine but I'm almost certain we'll still grab those
Note 2 - If you wanted to dash attack you'll need to dash back first since I'm pretty sure otherwise you'll just go right past them

Recommended action:
Wiz Foot at high percent, otherwise grab

Stylish action:
Aerial Wiz Foot (ayy lmao)

really, tho, that's good to know. i just figured out that you could grab from the reset and left it at that, pretty much.

 

[DMG]

teach me the secrets of the reset

 

[CORY]

call them on missing a tech, grounded neutral b, ???, profit

 

[DMG]

Will aerial b work for platform missed techs, or do I need to land and do the grounded?

 

[Bazkip]

Will aerial b work for platform missed techs, or do I need to land and do the grounded?

Oh damn
How did nobody ever think of this until now

Yeah I don't see any reason why that wouldn't work

Would also open up the possibility of dair since we wouldn't have to wait for jumpsquat

 

[CORY]

does aerial nb autocancel on landing? i vaguely remember that being a thing, but it's not generally useful enough to bother with, so i never tested.

if so, it might open up a few more options from a platform jab reset situation, if you can hit the slap then land right after, cutting out a chunk of recovery frames.

 

[Bazkip]

I've talked about edgeguarding tethers a bunch in the past here but I've just put it all the info into one place
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1nJLzZUbo3JpQTTq6IPAt5HrzJp_ZFTTPz5kVO4Nx_5w/

 

[Taytertot]

so idk exactly how useful this is for ganon but it might make punishes on the smashville platform a bit better. theres a tech that was left over from brawl that allows any character to instantly lagless land on moving platforms during the upwards movement of a jump. normally i wouldnt link a smashwiki page cause a lot of them have false info but this one's on point.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Platform_cancel