Q&A Gameplay Q&A and General Discussion Thread

[PK Gaming]

So the small percentage difference + improved KBG and it still kills 10% later?

Yes...? All i'm saying is that they upped to KBG to mitigate the drop in knockback from the damage nerf. Uair could have potentially killed a lot later if it weren't for that.

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

 

[WondrousMoose]

Yes...? All i'm saying is that they upped to KGB to mitigate the drop in knockback from the damage nerf. Uair could have potentially killed a lot later if it weren't for that.

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

they upped the KGB

KGB

 

[kCuzzzz]

This seems like the best place to drop this off. I've read most of the stuff on the Corrin boards and, unless I am missing something, have not seen too much info/discussion on two KO options.

1.) Tipper Hit of Insta-Pin - I am still working out the precise range for this, and there could be other factors I am not noticing as well, but it seems as though if you space the Insta-Pin appropriately you get a tipper hit rather than pinning your opponent. This seems like it has a lot of potential for KOs around the 100% range.

2.) Up-B - Maybe it's just the fact that I used to main Samus, but it seems as though Corrin's Up-B is a great tool for landing KOs off the top. Could be a great option if an opponent is expecting an Up-Air chase.

Thoughts/comments on these two options? If this is newer information I am more than willing to lab this stuff out under some guidance, it seems like they could both work really well as KO Tools.

 

[atreyujames]

Yes...? All i'm saying is that they upped to KBG to mitigate the drop in knockback from the damage nerf. Uair could have potentially killed a lot later if it weren't for that.

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

I don't know man. I feel like the team assembling the patch notes wouldn't have missed that. But if I don't see it up there by Sat, I'll ask one of them to look into it.

This seems like the best place to drop this off. I've read most of the stuff on the Corrin boards and, unless I am missing something, have not seen too much info/discussion on two KO options.

1.) Tipper Hit of Insta-Pin - I am still working out the precise range for this, and there could be other factors I am not noticing as well, but it seems as though if you space the Insta-Pin appropriately you get a tipper hit rather than pinning your opponent. This seems like it has a lot of potential for KOs around the 100% range.

2.) Up-B - Maybe it's just the fact that I used to main Samus, but it seems as though Corrin's Up-B is a great tool for landing KOs off the top. Could be a great option if an opponent is expecting an Up-Air chase.

Thoughts/comments on these two options? If this is newer information I am more than willing to lab this stuff out under some guidance, it seems like they could both work really well as KO Tools.

The tipper hit of Dragon Lunge kills at exactly 108% from mid stage against Pit (the median weight character). Its a good kill move but hard to get from instapinning since the tipper hitbox is usually buried under the stage. Only a very small area of that hitbox pokes above the stage and to hit with only that, you need to hit their feet or something around the ground.

What you said about the up B is probably one of the only ways to Offensively use Up-B. If you've conditioned the opponent to expect a Uair and read an airdodge, than Up-b can catch them out of it with proper timing. Alternatively, since there is intangibility on startup, you can use it to punish laggy moves in the air, but again, only if timed right

They aren't really "new" kill options perse, just uncommon ones. Especially Up-B.The startup (18F) is a bit too long for it to be a viable kill move under most circumstances. Ans Instapin Tipper is just VEEEERY hard to get on purpose and unlikely to happen in the midst of a match

 

[PK Gaming]

I don't know man. I feel like the team assembling the patch notes wouldn't have missed that. But if I don't see it up there by Sat, I'll ask one of them to look into it.

They just haven't gotten around to updating the patch thread.

This isn't even a question; it was changed.

Go to line 504 and compare the KBG values for yourself. It's in hex though.

 

[kCuzzzz]

The tipper hit of Dragon Lunge kills at exactly 108% from mid stage against Pit (the median weight character). Its a good kill move but hard to get from instapinning since the tipper hitbox is usually buried under the stage. Only a very small area of that hitbox pokes above the stage and to hit with only that, you need to hit their feet or something around the ground.

What you said about the up B is probably one of the only ways to Offensively use Up-B. If you've conditioned the opponent to expect a Uair and read an airdodge, than Up-b can catch them out of it with proper timing. Alternatively, since there is intangibility on startup, you can use it to punish laggy moves in the air, but again, only if timed right

They aren't really "new" kill options perse, just uncommon ones. Especially Up-B.The startup (18F) is a bit too long for it to be a viable kill move under most circumstances. Ans Instapin Tipper is just VEEEERY hard to get on purpose and unlikely to happen in the midst of a match

Good stuff, thanks for the prompt response. I figured there was something I was missing on the tipper hit of Dragon Lunge, the buried hitbox seems to make this a challenging option to pull off consistently. Will have to check that out more though.

And good to know about the Up-B!

 

[atreyujames]

They just haven't gotten around to updating the patch thread.

This isn't even a question; it was changed.

Go to line 504 and compare the KBG values for yourself. It's in hex though.

I realize that, and I'm not saying you are wrong. I saw what you were pointing out before I posted. But with all the changes that happened to Corrin I would have thought they would have noted that. I was more referencing my surprise that they missed it rather than disputing you. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Yeah, but 10% later? It's a 1% differential, didn't expect it to make much of any difference. Regardless, I didn't really feel it while playing until I went to Training Mode to try it out.

 

[Planty]

From bits and pieces i've picked up from across the site, Corrin has a 1.5 initial dash like the other Fire Emblem characters, but i have no idea what that entails or how it differs from run acceleration.

Dash to shield is apparently 7 or 8 frames. By comparison Sheik, Samus and G&W are 8 frames, so it's either the best dash to shield duration or tied for best. In contrast, the rest of the FE crew (sans ike) have double that at 16 frames.

Someone with more knowledge/actual ways to test these should definitely correct me on both accounts if i'm wrong though.

1.5 initial dash I believe means that you start dashing at top speed. If you use someone like Sonic, when you start running, after the initial dash, he takes a moment to get moving.

Dash to shield is 7 frames, the best in the game.

What I want to know that I can't find is how fast Corrin can do a regular attack like a jab after an initial dash.

 

[ligersandtigons]

is there a visual cue for the 17% bite?

or pretty much and neat little trick to know when to let of the b button?

 

[Zephil]

Ok I have this doubt for a while already. Whats the best punish we can do from a shieldbreak? Do we have a death combo right next to the edge?

 

[atreyujames]

is there a visual cue for the 17% bite?

or pretty much and neat little trick to know when to let of the b button?

Honestly I had to just go into training and practice the timing a lot. Its kinda about 1/4 of a second before the full charge... so when the bite grows wideest but doesnt start gnashing? I guess?

 

[gridatttack]

So apparently this are the nerfs on movement.

• Run Speed 1.5 -> 1.45
• Walk Speed 1.2 ->1.15
• Air Speed 1 -> 0.97

I wonder if they will be noticeable, but it sucks. It means less follow ups from a Charged DFS and less air speed less air combos? I will play later tonight to see if I feel a difference.

is there a visual cue for the 17% bite?

or pretty much and neat little trick to know when to let of the b button?

Not really. It's all timing, and its hard to the get the 17% bite as it seems it has a smaller window. Thankfully the 16% still kills earlier than fully charged, so I usually try to either 16% or 17%, mostly 16% right when I know they are already in the kill range for it.

 

[Empyrean]

1.5 initial dash I believe means that you start dashing at top speed. If you use someone like Sonic, when you start running, after the initial dash, he takes a moment to get moving.

Dash to shield is 7 frames, the best in the game.

What I want to know that I can't find is how fast Corrin can do a regular attack like a jab after an initial dash.

Oh my bad misunderstood what you said at first.

Doesn't look like anyone anywhere has tested this yet so i tried doing it myself.
I'm afraid i can't provide the most accurate data out there but from 30fps gfys (don't have a capture card ;_; ) im getting a 22-25 frame duration for the initial dash, before a jab comes out.

I was also curious to see how long the skid animation lasts because i noticed a while back that it wasn't too laggy. I'm getting about 14-17 frames for a skid from a top speed run, might be less with a slow run but I don't have more time to test it now.

Wish i could give the more precise numbers you're looking for, but this is all i can do with my current tools.

 

[Delzethin]

Ok I have this doubt for a while already. Whats the best punish we can do from a shieldbreak? Do we have a death combo right next to the edge?

A DFS to almost-fully-charged bite kills freakishly early at the ledge. We're talking like killing middleweights at 50%. Also does around 28% even with the damage nerf to the DFS shot.

 

[ligersandtigons]

Another question about DFS, this time concerning the stale move queue

So are the shot and bite considered 2 separate moves? So if I keep spamming the shot and never hit with the bite, the bite won't be stale right?

And what about side smash and it's chainsaw, and DL and kick?

 

[Nah]

So what exactly determines how long someone is stunned after getting hit by DFS?

2.) Up-B - Maybe it's just the fact that I used to main Samus, but it seems as though Corrin's Up-B is a great tool for landing KOs off the top. Could be a great option if an opponent is expecting an Up-Air chase.

Yeah I wouldn't really call Dragon Ascent as good of an option as Screw Attack in the same situation. Screw Attack's hitbox comes out frame 5 with i-frames on 3-6, while on Dragon Ascent it's frame 18 and frames 10-17. Dragon Ascent also moves more slowly than Screw Attack does.

 

[gridatttack]

Another question about DFS, this time concerning the stale move queue

So are the shot and bite considered 2 separate moves? So if I keep spamming the shot and never hit with the bite, the bite won't be stale right?

And what about side smash and it's chainsaw, and DL and kick?

I believe they are counted as the same move, just that in a sense that it's multihit. I noted the staleness because there was this match where I used a lot of Side B in the air, and when I got the foe pinned, the kick wasn't as powerful as I thought is was going to be.

So what exactly determines how long someone is stunned after getting hit by DFS?

IIRC, they are 2 factors. The charge time and the percentage the opponent has.

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Is fair > uair a true kill combo for most characters? I'm finding a bunch of characters being sent too far back after the fair.

 

[PK Gaming]

Is fair > uair a true kill combo for most characters? I'm finding a bunch of characters being sent too far back after the fair.

It depends on how much damage they've taken (iirc they stop linking together around the 90 range?), and how high above the ground they are.

But generally, no.

 

[atreyujames]

Is fair > uair a true kill combo for most characters? I'm finding a bunch of characters being sent too far back after the fair.

Check the Kill % thread, I've got the percents for the kill combos. But to save you a trip for this exact combo, It kills Pit at 105% to 114% and Bowser at 117% to 128%. Floaty or small characters have a very small window, if any at all. As well, proper DI likely makes this either very hard or impossible, but if they DI wrong then it is a combo

 

[gridatttack]

I have to wonder, does Ftilt has a sweetspot or something?

I was derping around in the online wait room and noted that Ftilt did different damage. Or the moves in the online waiting room stale too?

 

[Lavani]

I have to wonder, does Ftilt has a sweetspot or something?

I was derping around in the online wait room and noted that Ftilt did different damage. Or the moves in the online waiting room stale too?

All its hitboxes are the same, but it does 10.5% so it should alternate between 10s and 11s in the waiting room.

 

[atreyujames]

I have to wonder, does Ftilt has a sweetspot or something?

I was derping around in the online wait room and noted that Ftilt did different damage. Or the moves in the online waiting room stale too?

As the above stated correctly, there is no tipper. The only tipper moves we have are all of our Smashes, Dragon Lunge and Jab 1.

 

[gridatttack]

Hmmm speaking of tippers, I believe that Btrhow and Fthrow have tippers too.

I remember playing against multiple people one time, and I noted I hit someone with the Bthrow DL tipper and he was launched farther. And interesting, I didn't knew Jab 1 had a tipper. Makes sense though.

 

[FMHappy]

This might be a dumb question, but why do people do a SHFF fair instead of a normal SH fair? Doesn't fair auto cancel if you fair early enough? Does a SHFF fair still auto cancel, or do people just do it out of preference?

 

[atreyujames]

This might be a dumb question, but why do people do a SHFF fair instead of a normal SH fair? Doesn't fair auto cancel if you fair early enough? Does a SHFF fair still auto cancel, or do people just do it out of preference?

It's faster and still auto cancels. The less frames between when the Fair hits and when you land allow for more frames in which you can followup with something else. FFing in general should almost always be used unless you are mixing up a landing or it ruins the timing of an aerial.

 

[Planty]

This might be a dumb question, but why do people do a SHFF fair instead of a normal SH fair? Doesn't fair auto cancel if you fair early enough? Does a SHFF fair still auto cancel, or do people just do it out of preference?

You need to land with it to combo consistently. SHFF brings you to the ground faster. Also the landing lag is so low that it doesn't matter much if you auto cancel or not.

 

[Empyrean]

In case anyone missed Come to Papa, Ryo got 2nd to MVD using Corrin and Ike. Grand finals in particular was a great display of the Corrin-Diddy MU. Looked really manageable, Diddy's fair wasn't as big a problem as i figured it would be, but MVD clutched it out. Some great stuff nonetheless, definitely quite a few creative setups from Ryo that we can learn from, and surprisingly a lot of his kills came from tipper upsmash (same with his set vs Master Raven's Sheik).

Vods will be uploaded to Polarity, dunno when exactly though.

---

More of an observation on my side, but I feel mercilessly abusing tipper fsmash vs characters who have almost no way to punish it is a better idea than it sounds like. However, characters who dash to shield the tipper can still be in range to punish with dash grab because of the added dash momentum (like Diddy) so it's something to keep in mind.

 

[Skitrel]

More of an observation on my side, but I feel mercilessly abusing tipper fsmash vs characters who have almost no way to punish it is a better idea than it sounds like. However, characters who dash to shield the tipper can still be in range to punish with dash grab because of the added dash momentum (like Diddy) so it's something to keep in mind.

I completely agree, and add that this certainly goes for tipper IP too. Unpunishable moves with such a high payback should be abused endlessly in the matchups where they work.

 

[Planty]

More of an observation on my side, but I feel mercilessly abusing tipper fsmash vs characters who have almost no way to punish it is a better idea than it sounds like. However, characters who dash to shield the tipper can still be in range to punish with dash grab because of the added dash momentum (like Diddy) so it's something to keep in mind.

I completely agree, and add that this certainly goes for tipper IP too. Unpunishable moves with such a high payback should be abused endlessly in the matchups where they work.

Additionally, because of F-smash's range, if somebody throws a projectile at you, you could F-smash them on reaction. I love doing this against Link. At tipper F-smash range, he can't do any melee moves to me. All he can do is dashgrab, which is a bad option. I wait at this range and if I see him winding up to throw a boomerang, F-smash him. The F-smash cancels out the boomerang and hits Link.

Is there some sort of list of projectiles that F-smash cancels and/or cancels and continues hitting? Does it just obey the standard rule of priority (beats out if move does more than 8% than the other)?

 

[Blue Banana]

Hi, I can't find a dedicated matchup thread in the Corrin forum, so hopefully it's okay to post this here.

The Olimar board is now discussing the Corrin matchup. Any input is appreciated.

 

[Lavani]

Is there some sort of list of projectiles that F-smash cancels and/or cancels and continues hitting? Does it just obey the standard rule of priority (beats out if move does more than 8% than the other)?

Standard priority, as far as projectiles are concerned. Will beat most things, stuff that does at least 9% more than the hitbox that clanks will fly right on through (ex. 16.5% tipper can break 25% charged Shadow Ball, but it'll keep going and hit Corrin if sourspotted).

While double-checking this, I discovered Corrin's fsmash doesn't recoil on clank even though it's flagged to, and doesn't seem to even if a move beats it by >9%. Guess the spear arm being considered an article gives us a free pass on that!

 

[Hippieslayer]

I simply cannot consistently rapid jab. Is it just a matter of me not mashing fast enough? Cause in that case I'm screwed, never been able to mash quickly in any game god knows Ive had plenty of practice trying. Or is it a matter of timing? In that case I can learn it like anything else.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I simply cannot consistently rapid jab. Is it just a matter of me not mashing fast enough? Cause in that case I'm screwed, never been able to mash quickly in any game god knows Ive had plenty of practice trying. Or is it a matter of timing? In that case I can learn it like anything else.

To perform the multi-hit attack, you'll just have to hit your target with the first two hits of the standard attack, while tapping the attack button. It's much harder to pull off if you're not hitting anything.

 

[Hippieslayer]

To perform the multi-hit attack, you'll just have to hit your target with the first two hits of the standard attack, while tapping the attack button. It's much harder to pull off if you're not hitting anything.

Thanks man, I just tried it out and yup thats it, now its real easy.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

What's up with the entire community referring to Corrin as a she? When the default is clearly male? I mean, I don't main or secondary Corrin but I don't get the unnecessary hatred for the male, even Robin didn't have it this bad.

 

[teddystalin]

What's up with the entire community referring to Corrin as a she? When the default is clearly male? I mean, I don't main or secondary Corrin but I don't get the unnecessary hatred for the male, even Robin didn't have it this bad.

Ppppprobably shouldn't go in the gameplay discussion, but since you asked, imo it's about player projection contrasting with the character's personality.


Robin in Awakening is a pretty bland character. Better than Kris in FE12, for sure, but is generally just a smart, nice, and levelheaded dude who acts as a straight man to all the zany characters that surround him/her. While he has a vastly increased role in the story, his/her background isn't that different from FE7's Mark, the original player insert of the series. He's the tactician - he/she does what the player does and reacts the way a reasonable person would in most situations. As such, it's much easier for the overwhelmingly male playerbase to project their own personality onto Robin. The character's design is pretty good for both genders too. F!Robin is more popular in Smash, but I'm willing to bet that in Awakening proper, the numbers were more even/skewed towards male.

Corrin, on the other hand, is more of a character than any previous avatar. He/she is the central character of Fates and drives the plot in a big way. They couldn't make him/her as simple as Robin because he's the protagonist, not a supporting character. But his/her personality is pretty divisive: he/she is naive, gullible, and childlike in a lot of ways. These traits don't correspond well to the cultural standards of a Western male hero. (Note: I haven't finished Conquest, but in Birthright, he/she stays static and makes it by on the power of heart for pretty much the whole game.) On the other hand, the traits fit common anime girl stereotypes better. A sheltered princess goes out into the world, optimistic and naive, and reveals strength in the face of adversity ("Silk hiding steel," if you will)? It sounds more natural to the regular consumer of these things. (2nd Note: Not gonna cast judgement as to whether that's a good thing or not.) M!Corrin thus fails as a player avatar and doesn't live up to cultural expectations as a character, but F!Corrin doesn't have to succeed as an avatar for most and is more palatable as her own character. In terms of design, M!Corrin also gets shafted on the customization screen and looks dumb in the steel action unitard (TM) that they both wear. F!Corrin gets a much better range of options there.

My two cents on this issue. Not gonna hate on players who use M!Corrin though, even if their character is a total dork




...Why is this my longest post on smashboards

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Ppppprobably shouldn't go in the gameplay discussion, but since you asked, imo it's about player projection contrasting with the character's personality.


Robin in Awakening is a pretty bland character. Better than Kris in FE12, for sure, but is generally just a smart, nice, and levelheaded dude who acts as a straight man to all the zany characters that surround him/her. While he has a vastly increased role in the story, his/her background isn't that different from FE7's Mark, the original player insert of the series. He's the tactician - he/she does what the player does and reacts the way a reasonable person would in most situations. As such, it's much easier for the overwhelmingly male playerbase to project their own personality onto Robin. The character's design is pretty good for both genders too. F!Robin is more popular in Smash, but I'm willing to bet that in Awakening proper, the numbers were more even/skewed towards male.

Corrin, on the other hand, is more of a character than any previous avatar. He/she is the central character of Fates and drives the plot in a big way. They couldn't make him/her as simple as Robin because he's the protagonist, not a supporting character. But his/her personality is pretty divisive: he/she is naive, gullible, and childlike in a lot of ways. These traits don't correspond well to the cultural standards of a Western male hero. (Note: I haven't finished Conquest, but in Birthright, he/she stays static and makes it by on the power of heart for pretty much the whole game.) On the other hand, the traits fit common anime girl stereotypes better. A sheltered princess goes out into the world, optimistic and naive, and reveals strength in the face of adversity ("Silk hiding steel," if you will)? It sounds more natural to the regular consumer of these things. (2nd Note: Not gonna cast judgement as to whether that's a good thing or not.) M!Corrin thus fails as a player avatar and doesn't live up to cultural expectations as a character, but F!Corrin doesn't have to succeed as an avatar for most and is more palatable as her own character. In terms of design, M!Corrin also gets shafted on the customization screen and looks dumb in the steel action unitard (TM) that they both wear. F!Corrin gets a much better range of options there.

My two cents on this issue. Not gonna hate on players who use M!Corrin though, even if their character is a total dork




...Why is this my longest post on smashboards

Wait that's it? For something as as that? Now I see why people are waifu **** when referring to Corrin, I like the M!Corrin because Cam Clarke, enough said, don't care if people think he sounds like an idiot.

 

[Skitrel]

Is it possible for nair to hit twice? Both with the front and rear hitbox. Or did I imagine it happening in a game today? I thought it was generally hard coded that only intended multihit moves could hit with more than one box as opposed to sweetspot/weak hitboxes of single hit moves. Not sure if I've misinterpreted the move and SDI combined with odd positioning can cause them to fall into both hits.

What's up with the entire community referring to Corrin as a she? When the default is clearly male? I mean, I don't main or secondary Corrin but I don't get the unnecessary hatred for the male, even Robin didn't have it this bad.

To succinctly add to what Teddy said, Male Corrin is disliked for the same reason Raiden from MGS2 was disliked. He comes off as completely whiny, irritating and a little dumb for a male character, mainly due to his voice acting and appearance. Real Corrin on the otherhand comes off as strong and determined, the somewhat irritating traits are things we find perfectly acceptable traits in a female. Again though the voice acting plays a serious part, male Corrin feels too much like a naive young boy while female Corrin feels like a strong/determined woman, even if she's flawed in some ways. Tone depicts a chunk of the character.

One is likeable, the other is not.

That and everyone loves a best girl these days. It's an anime thing, there's a huge amount of crossover in the Smash community with anime viewers, with even many of the pros tweeting about the latest episodes airing of various shows each season. ERASED was particularly posted about during this first season of the year while One Punch Man was the flavour of last season.