Q&A Gameplay Q&A and General Discussion Thread

[Lavani]

Being stuck at the ledge is an intentionally coded thing on some moves to prevent them from ledge canceling. It was added to Sheik's bouncing fish in 1.0.4, for example.

 

[Ingoro]

Is the distance on kick completely consistent? Affected by map friction? Or otherwise?

I'm finding that when I intend to go offstage with it, I'll accidentally be stuck at the edge. I'm wondering whether this is just a judgement issue that can be solved with know the exact distance using background objects like Pikachus do with QAC edgeguards or whether it might differ depending on stage/circumstances/back-kick/front-kick/shield hit/no shield hit/etc.

It might have sometthing to do with the length of how far your pin is in the ground

 

[Skitrel]

I might have something to do with the length of how far your pin is in the ground

Oh god please no...

 

[Flawlessh]

Not sure if posted already but:

On Duck Hunt in the top of the tree, Corrins up-b kills Mario at 46% w/ no DI and 59% w/ DI.
But the downside is our up-b comes out on frame 18, making it a poor Out of Shield option.

Can be a fairly good stage to counterpick too, as it also has walls for better recovery with our side-b.

 

[Planty]

Since it was brought up, what stages should Corrin be going to? I've been banning FD a lot because you lose all your amazing platform play (and also because Rosalina's worst stage is FD) along with Lylat because the tilts make DL so inconsistent. But what exactly is a good stage for Corrin? Smashville seems pretty good because its small size, letting Corrin control a higher percentage of the stage with potential hitboxes (F-smash mainly). Also Town and City has a really low ceiling and platforms, which is cool. What else?

 

[atreyujames]

Personally, after the obvious BF, Dreamland, and T&C, I believe Duck Hunt to be our best stage. It has the same ceiling height as FD, so our vertical kills won't be hampered too much. The biggest draw for Duck hunt imo is that the sides are so easily pinned, and that the bush and dog platforms are so great for mixups. As well, with our Fairs and Nairs, we can easily set up a tech chase situation on the tree platforms for a potential stock with Uair. The stage is long, which gives us a lot of room to maneuver with DL, which I understand can be seen as a con when we consider that it doesn't cover as much space, but it can also benefit us as well.

 

[free33]

okay guys patch 1.1.5 is coming out right now so let's get on it. what can we speculate about corrin changes?

 

[Flawlessh]

corrin nerf: counter no longer kills bowser at 0% with a fully charged f-smash on FD with no di. the counter did 38% before it was 40 or 45 i believe

 

[gridatttack]

Apparently all aerials do 1% less damage... :/

Also fully charged Dragon Fang Shot does 3% less damage.

So supposedly more combos and less shield stun?

 

[ARGHETH]

Apparently all aerials do 1% less damage... :/

Also fully charged Dragon Fang Shot does 3% less damage.

So supposedly more combos and less shield stun?

Bair still does 11%, actually.
Fully charged DFS does 2% less, from 13%-->11%

 

[Flawlessh]

the dragon fang shot nerf, was the damage nerf to the bite or to the projectile?

 

[ARGHETH]

the dragon fang shot nerf, was the damage nerf to the bite or to the projectile?

Fully charged projectile only. As far as I can tell, uncharged projectile and both bites are the same.
I have no idea about mid-charged shot/bite, though.

 

[Flawlessh]

does uncharged projectile still combo into fully charge bite at any percent? (cant check currently or i would)

 

[LordShade67]

does uncharged projectile still combo into fully charge bite at any percent? (cant check currently or i would)

Yep.

 

[ligersandtigons]

is it true corrin got ground speed nerfs?

 

[gridatttack]

It got a 0.03 nerf.

Why? Like seriously.

I felt we could only do some big stuff if we were close.

Ugh I wonder if it will mess my timing with the Dragon Lunge Tipper kill after I paralyzed someone.

 

[LordShade67]

So basically, except for MAYBE the DFS into Dragon Lunge Tipper at kill %, we basically lost most, if not all of our DFS combos. Yes, even the footstool one. APPARENTLY, we can't have nice things.

*insert salty rant here*

 

[gridatttack]

So basically, except for MAYBE the DFS into Dragon Lunge Tipper at kill %

IIRC, since stun time is based on damage, I presume it will still work, albeit at a bit higher percent? I will be playing tomorrow and see if I can still get them.

 

[atreyujames]

IIRC, since stun time is based on damage, I presume it will still work, albeit at a bit higher percent? I will be playing tomorrow and see if I can still get them.

Pretty sure paralyze time is indicative of the charge time, not the percent of the opponent.

 

[Fex13]

wow...that wasnt necessary. corrin was not opressive, OP or anything. this was a huge hit in the face. walk speed, ok. but run speed...

 

[Ingoro]

How severe is the walk/run speed nerf? I felt like a lot of these changes weren't needed.

 

[Fex13]

ok, after playing and testing for 30 mins, i overreacted. the nerfs arent even bad aside from uair not killing so early anymore. but i felt like i could combo fair/nair longer, which was nice.
the speed nerfs are barely noticeable.

EDIT: one thing is pretty terrible though. you cant follow up an uncharged DFS into DL tipper as easy anymore. the timing and distance to your opponent in incredibly strict and gimmicky now ;(

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

How severe is the walk/run speed nerf? I felt like a lot of these changes weren't needed.

One source says that Corrin's run speed is decreased by 0.03, which makes him run about as fast as Olimar now. I don't know about the walk speed value though, but it seems that Corrin's air speed remains unaffected, which means that his recovery isn't affected either.

 

[Lone V]

Honestly, I don't think I would've even noticed the ground speed nerf if I hadn't read about it beforehand. The Uair nerf will hurt if true though.

 

[IndigoSSB]

EDIT: one thing is pretty terrible though. you cant follow up an uncharged DFS into DL tipper as easy anymore. the timing and distance to your opponent in incredibly strict and gimmicky now ;(

How so? It seems relatively unchanged to me.

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I can't replicate SmashCorner's footstool combo at 40% anymore though, the speed nerfs seem to mess it up (I can't get the DFS to footstool anymore). At the very least we can be thankful that DL seems to be untouched.

 

[Ingoro]

Do the aerial nerfs open up new options? I'm a bit skeptical how big these changes are but I won't be able to check until tonight.

 

[gridatttack]

Was Uair really nerfed in kill power?

i remember testing this when corrin came out to see at what percent mario was KO'd on the ground (No DI sice it was the standing CPU) and it was 151%. Tested it again and mario was KO'd at the same percentage.

 

[atreyujames]

Was Uair really nerfed in kill power?

i remember testing this when corrin came out to see at what percent mario was KO'd on the ground (No DI sice it was the standing CPU) and it was 151%. Tested it again and mario was KO'd at the same percentage.

I'm about to update the Kill % thread now, just have to test it. I assume the kill power was lowered since the percent went doen (confirmed) and the knockback didnt go up

EDIT: So I am in the middle of updating the thread and for ****s and giggles I tried to do the Fair->Uair combo to see if it killed, since it didn't pre-patch. To my total surprise, it now Kills from 105-114%! not a very wide margin, but very nice!

 

[Planty]

So lets talk walking. When should we walk? With characters like Marth, I find myself walking a ton for proper spacing (walking is extremely underdeveloped and unused). When is Corrin supposed to walk? her walk just has such trash tier acceleration. (does anybody have walk acceleration rankings?). I feel like just using an initial dash is usually faster. (Also how fast is Corrin's initial dash, frame-wise?)

 

[LordShade67]

Mixing it up with FoxTrots, shield dashes, etc. Dashing is faster, yes. But walking is alot less committal while keeping all of your options on standby like all of Corrin's Tilts.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Was Uair really nerfed in kill power?

i remember testing this when corrin came out to see at what percent mario was KO'd on the ground (No DI sice it was the standing CPU) and it was 151%. Tested it again and mario was KO'd at the same percentage.

Killing off the ground with moves that are intended to kill well off the top doesn't do them much of any justice. Like, you can kill at like 60-70 with Bowser's B-Air at the edge, but it probably won't KO until over 100 around the middle of the stage. For trying out U-Air, I have it combo off of D-Tilt and Mario will die around 110 about 2/3rds of the way up. Goes to say how important positioning is, in this game.

 

[Empyrean]

(Also how fast is Corrin's initial dash, frame-wise?)

From bits and pieces i've picked up from across the site, Corrin has a 1.5 initial dash like the other Fire Emblem characters, but i have no idea what that entails or how it differs from run acceleration.

Dash to shield is apparently 7 or 8 frames. By comparison Sheik, Samus and G&W are 8 frames, so it's either the best dash to shield duration or tied for best. In contrast, the rest of the FE crew (sans ike) have double that at 16 frames.

Someone with more knowledge/actual ways to test these should definitely correct me on both accounts if i'm wrong though.

 

[gridatttack]

Killing off the ground with moves that are intended to kill well off the top doesn't do them much of any justice. Like, you can kill at like 60-70 with Bowser's B-Air at the edge, but it probably won't KO until over 100 around the middle of the stage. For trying out U-Air, I have it combo off of D-Tilt and Mario will die around 110 about 2/3rds of the way up. Goes to say how important positioning is, in this game.

Of course I don't use it exclusively for that.

I was testing because you can sometimes catch people rolling form the edge, so you get them with the back hit of Uair.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Wait, is it just me, or does U-Air kill like 10% later? Could be that I don't remember the numbers correctly, but on 3DS (apparently has bigger blast zones), U-Air killed Mario at about 108-113. Now, it kills at 122...

 

[Delzethin]

Wait, is it just me, or does U-Air kill like 10% later? Could be that I don't remember the numbers correctly, but on 3DS (apparently has bigger blast zones), U-Air killed Mario at about 108-113. Now, it kills at 122...

Would make sense. Knockback in Smash 4 is tied partially to a move's damage. Having uair be 1% weaker now makes it kill a little later.

 

[PK Gaming]

So Uair got a slight buff to KBG

That should somewhat mitigate the damage nerf

 

[atreyujames]

So Uair got a slight buff to KBG

That should somewhat mitigate the damage nerf

I'm not sure where you found that out. I'm not seeing that anywhere. And when I was testing earlier it killed anywhere from 5-10% later depending on the character, which kinda lines up with only a 1% difference. If the KBG got buffed, than the gap would be much smaller, like 1-2%

 

[Ingoro]

So Uair got a slight buff to KBG

That should somewhat mitigate the damage nerf

No, you misunderstood that. KBG is related to damage dealt by the move so lower damage = lower knockback = kills later.

 

[PK Gaming]

No, you misunderstood that. KBG is related to damage dealt by the move so lower damage = lower knockback = kills later.

I know, but the KBG value itself was increased.

See for yourself

 

[Ingoro]

I know, but the KBG value itself was increased.

See for yourself

So the small percentage difference + improved KBG and it still kills 10% later?