Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

[Joeyd123]

I've watched lots of videos and know how to do mostly everything. However, I still lose against noobs who have no skill whatsoever. Is there something else I need to be doing? Such as trying to make better reads? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Charey]

First you need to ask why you are losing to people "who have no skill." Just saying the person you are fighting is "a noob" is counter productive and doesn't let you examine WHY you are losing, it's an excuse to not learn from you matches by writing off the people who beat you.

Even someone who is new can win if you don't learn how to counter their strategy, if you keep falling for it then it would be wrong for them to change tactics.

 

[Starlet]

Yo just joined the site and also only just got into Super Smash Bros.

I was hoping that someone here might be willing to help me learn to play somewhat decently? There are a lot of different characters (I managed to unlock them all and I bought mewtwo) so um I'm not really sure what to do. Should I pick just one character? or should I play multiple ones? I really have no idea lol.

I've tried playing a little on the For Glory 1v1 mode. At first I lost every time but I think I'm getting the hang of it a little as I've managed to win the last 5 games I played

So yeah if anyone would be willing to take some time to sit and play with me and maybe teach me some of the basics (perhaps even some more advanced stuff?) I would really appreciate it, I'd like to be able to get better but I'm completely lost at the moment, just navigating around the site seems daunting seeing as there is so much content! I apologize if I ended up posting this in the wrong place but I just wasn't sure, please forgive me if I made a mistake

Thanks

 

[NotAnAdmin]

1. Try as many characters as possible in training mode see which ones "click" with you.
It's much more fun overall when you like your character's playstyle. Plus it gives you time to get used to how this game works on different sides of the spectrum. (i.e. Switching from playing Jigglypuff to Sonic)
2. Find some people to play with.
Either online or locally, which brings me to my next point.
3. Find, and research your nearest Smash community.
There's probably a local community that probably has tourneys, or they just get together and play near you, playing with the person next to you is the best in my opinion, especially if he can continually blow you out. They can give you tips on what to work on and what you might be doing wrong. Most people are happy to help you grow as a player.
4. Practice a bunch.
Watch some videos of high of level players using the characters you main.
5. Try not to go to 4Glory too often, it promotes bad habits and some of the guys there aren't really going to help you get better. Also, if you play a character that requires precise inputs lag can really mess with that. There are sometimes good players but they are few and far between
6. Practice some more.
There is always something you can work on or learn.
7. More practice 2: Electric Boogaloo
8. Did you practice?
9. Better get practicing!

Whenever you choose a main find it's character specific board and get to working on using all of their strengths and options!
It may seem like I'm joking about practicing about honestly it's the best way to understand your main and get down tricky movements. Eventually it becomes muscle memory and it's easy to do. Stay in the lab.

 

[mario123007]

Hiya~ I just joined the site and also only just got into Super Smash Bros.

I was hoping that someone here might be willing to help me learn to play somewhat decently? There are a lot of different characters (I managed to unlock them all and I bought mewtwo) so um I'm not really sure what to do. Should I pick just one character? or should I play multiple ones? I really have no idea lol.

I've tried playing a little on the For Glory 1v1 mode. At first I lost every time but I think I'm getting the hang of it a little as I've managed to win the last 5 games I played!

So yeah if anyone would be willing to take some time to sit and play with me and maybe teach me some of the basics (perhaps even some more advanced stuff? o3o) I would really appreciate it, I'd like to be able to get better but I'm completely lost at the moment, just navigating around the site seems daunting seeing as there is so much content! I apologize if I ended up posting this in the wrong place but I just wasn't sure, please forgive me if I made a mistake!

Thanks a lot!

Welcome to Smashboards!So just what kind of character do you prefer? Which character do you use a lot right now?
And which version do you play the most right now? 3DS or the Wii U version? I really feel pity that no competitive Smash scene plays the 3DS version anymore.
I am willing to play with you if you play the 3DS version as well. I am hoping to get the Wii U in the future, I can teach you the basics, and perhaps we can help each other with the advance techs (I know some but I'm still learning the more advance ones)

1. Try as many characters as possible in training mode see which ones "click" with you.
It's much more fun overall when you like your character's playstyle. Plus it gives you time to get used to how this game works on different sides of the spectrum. (i.e. Switching from playing Jigglypuff to Sonic)
2. Find some people to play with.
Either online or locally, which brings me to my next point.
3. Find, and research your nearest Smash community.
There's probably a local community that probably has tourneys, or they just get together and play near you, playing with the person next to you is the best in my opinion, especially if he can continually blow you out. They can give you tips on what to work on and what you might be doing wrong. Most people are happy to help you grow as a player.
4. Practice a bunch.
Watch some videos of high of level players using the characters you main.
5. Try not to go to 4Glory too often, it promotes bad habits and some of the guys there aren't really going to help you get better. Also, if you play a character that requires precise inputs lag can really mess with that. There are sometimes good players but they are few and far between
6. Practice some more.
There is always something you can work on or learn.
7. More practice 2: Electric Boogaloo
8. Did you practice?
9. Better get practicing!

Whenever you choose a main find it's character specific board and get to working on using all of their strengths and options!
It may seem like I'm joking about practicing about honestly it's the best way to understand your main and get down tricky movements. Eventually it becomes muscle memory and it's easy to do. Stay in the lab.

1.Check
2.Check (My brother, but hard to find other people except my brother.)
3.Nearly impossible, Taiwan even though has a great influence by Japanese culture, especially animes, but Smash scene in Taiwan is really small. There is nearly no Smash communities, there's only 3DS communities.
4.Time issue...
5. I only go Online if there's a conquest mode that I want to join, I have never go 1v1 for a half year now!
6.If I have time. I WILL.
7.What's that?
8.Yes.
9. I will!
3DS is the only console I play Smash so far, it really struggles me that I can't play the Wii U version because I don't have a Wii U. I mean, can I be competitive while playing the 3DS version? Seems that there are many tech that can be better perform on the Wii U version. I have tried many of those tricks on the 3DS version, but I feel 3DS' control is very fragile, not like the GC conrtoller that you can be aggressive when playing.

 

[sweatyteddytaco]

I was playing a guy earlier and I couldn't get a hit on him. He'd just Blick everything g projectile wise then I'd come after him then he'd block and just grab me. How do I beat this and is this considered cheese or to defensive because I K ow it's most definitely not fun.

 

[Zelder]

You can grab a block, as I'm sure you know. But the secret I've found is to not play online if you have bad lag. It's just not worth the frustration.

 

[tr3v]

You can grab a block, as I'm sure you know. But the secret I've found is to not play online if you have bad lag. It's just not worth the frustration.

To add on to this, he can't block if you get him in the air.

 

[Big-Cat]

GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAB

That is all.

 

[Kurri ★]

Learn to space out your attacks and learn to grab.

 

[GhostUrsa]

This happens more in close quarters when a player tends to get excited and mash buttons (like when attempting to run up and dash, or jab). You'll commit to an action, like the jab, but won't stop when the opponent starts blocking and set yourself up for the jab3 end lag instead of stopping mid-combo to retreat or some other action. Practice hitting the button once for each action you want to commit to so you can stop mid-combo will help prevent jabs from getting shield-grabbed.

Otherwise, if you know your opponent will always shield your approaches then you need to do something else. Grabs, empty-hops to trick him into shielding or mistime the dropping of his shield so you can punish with an attack, something. Shield-grabs are only possible if you are making telegraphed (the wind up is easy to see, and they are a player that knows spacing and is patient) or repeated moves (You always dash attack when approaching from the ground, or use retreating ranged the same way). Mix it up, be unpredictable, and stay calm.

 

[Blocksystem]

I was playing a guy earlier and I couldn't get a hit on him. He'd just Blick everything g projectile wise then I'd come after him then he'd block and just grab me. How do I beat this and is this considered cheese or to defensive because I K ow it's most definitely not fun.

Your best bet against people who like shielding is to pressure them with grabs and spacing mixups.

Grabbing is pretty easy with most characters, especially if you're using someone like Falcon with good speed and range on grabs. Other characters, however - for example, Ike (one of my other mains), have trouble with short reach grabs, in which case you should mix up with your spacing: for example, Ike's f-air has good knockback on shields, so I use that to bait out a counterattack which I can punish with a jab to lead into a combo.
Also take notes of command grabs, since moves such as Ganon's side-b are great at punishing shields.
Furthermore, breaking their shield is always an option: the best moves to do this with are Lucina/Marth's shield-breakers (neutral B) and Jigglypuff's Pound (side-B).

Tl;Dr use grabs and apply pressure

 

[Greenunjah]

I've been trying to improve defense wise and I was wondering if anyone had any tips on knowing when to spot dodge to avoid an attack.Any help is appreciated,as I am hoping on joining the competitive scene soon.

 

[GhostUrsa]

Spot dodging is normally used against a single attack where you need more speed to react than a normal block will handle, or when trying to prevent a grab. Common uses for Spot dodging is for dodging dash attacks that have a single attack animation, attempts to grab, or avoiding a smash so you can capitalize on an opening. They are more risky than shielding though, which is why you may not see too many players spot dodging in high level play. (I tend to see aerials used more to both dodge and shutdown an attack option from an opponent.)

Baiting a spot dodge by delaying an attack or grab is something you'll have to worry about if you start spamming spot dodging. Learn to perform it (the 'when' is very Match-up specific, so practice is key!), and then apply it when you have a plan is usually the best advice I can give.

 

[CelloLuCC]

Anyone have general tips on improving my neutral game?

 

[Joeyd123]

So I have played Smash since Melee came out, but just started playing competitively. I was about 50% on For Glory and thought I was okay. But then, I started using Smash Ladder a couple days ago and I get my a*s handed to me every single match, even against the players "at the bottom of the ladder". Anyone have any tips because I really need some help lol

 

[PUK]

keep playing on the ladder

 

[GSM_Dren]

Anyone have general tips on improving my neutral game?

So I have played Smash since Melee came out, but just started playing competitively. I was about 50% on For Glory and thought I was okay. But then, I started using Smash Ladder a couple days ago and I get my a*s handed to me every single match, even against the players "at the bottom of the ladder". Anyone have any tips because I really need some help lol

Since you two are asking similar questions I'll try answer them both. The neutral game entails the fight for positional advantage through spacing, predicting, and capitalizing on your opponent's mistakes. You need to be focused throughout the entire match and not let yourself go auto-pilot. Center stage is usually the best position and controlling the stage means you have a better number of options than your opponent does. Always be thinking about the next step, analyze your opponent's pattern, and don't be afraid to deviate from your usual game plan.

Never underestimate your opponents no matter how "bottom of the ladder" they are. Its easy to go +50% winrate on FG because most players are not as competitive or educated as those who are on the forums. The smash ladder is a different story because anyone competing will be vying for the top spot and will have actually learned about their character and the rest of the cast. I enjoy the site because I can see where I'm roughly at, and that I'll be able to learn quite a bit from the numerous variety of opponents. You can't just autopilot to victory anymore like in FG, you have to be actively thinking in order to win your matches.

If you find yourself losing every match, save your replays (post them if you'd like) and analyze them. Look for the reason why you've been losing - improper spacing, being too predictable, etc. Its hard to break bad habits, but you need to be aware that they exist and have been costing you the games. Asking your opponent what you could do better is also a good option because you'd be able to see it from their perspective. Good luck!

 

[Joeyd123]

Since you two are asking similar questions I'll try answer them both. The neutral game entails the fight for positional advantage through spacing, predicting, and capitalizing on your opponent's mistakes. You need to be focused throughout the entire match and not let yourself go auto-pilot. Center stage is usually the best position and controlling the stage means you have a better number of options than your opponent does. Always be thinking about the next step, analyze your opponent's pattern, and don't be afraid to deviate from your usual game plan.

Never underestimate your opponents no matter how "bottom of the ladder" they are. Its easy to go +50% winrate on FG because most players are not as competitive or educated as those who are on the forums. The smash ladder is a different story because anyone competing will be vying for the top spot and will have actually learned about their character and the rest of the cast. I enjoy the site because I can see where I'm roughly at, and that I'll be able to learn quite a bit from the numerous variety of opponents. You can't just autopilot to victory anymore like in FG, you have to be actively thinking in order to win your matches.

If you find yourself losing every match, save your replays (post them if you'd like) and analyze them. Look for the reason why you've been losing - improper spacing, being too predictable, etc. Its hard to break bad habits, but you need to be aware that they exist and have been costing you the games. Asking your opponent what you could do better is also a good option because you'd be able to see it from their perspective. Good luck!

Thanks man, but how do you save your replays?

 

[eveningninja]

Question: Is there some kind of list or perhaps general method(ology) of knowing which enemy projecticles can be cancelled by aerials? And also which aerials can cancel enemy projectiles (if there are differences)? Thanks.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Yo there! I've noticed I've had a lot anxiety or hesitation on playing due having to deal with my playstyle getting easily countered overtime, no matter how much advantage I'm having. It doesn't change much (whether defensive or aggressive), but it's just that It seems the more momentum I have, the easier it is to counter me back, leading me always back to footsies and having to deal with neutral game while the opponent is basically not taking any action just to bait me in.

It gets tiring because over the long run it has had me play too much on defensive side or not even committing enough to keep things fresh but it always means more breathing space and momentum for certain players or characters they employ that could break these things with more advantage in such matchup.

Basically my playstyles (no matter what kind) seem to be easily read over time and then found counters, but if I were to try mix things up, it lets the opponent be able to take the momentum from me much easier, whether having more options and possibly attacking back on me. Like, it's actually disadvantageous for me to have a proper momentum unless my character has enough "mechanics" or priority, quick attacks, etc to back the momentum up. What to do?

 

[Snotbubbler]

So I am a competitive Melee player, and recently I've been trying to get into Smash 4. However, the neutral game is obviously a lot different than Melee. When I play against the casual player in Smash 4 I usually win, however I feel like when I play against somebody who knows what they're doing I usually lose. I feel like I struggle really bad in the Neutral game.
I have noticed a couple of things I think I'm doing wrong. As a Melee player I love being aggressive (I played Falco in Melee). However in Smash 4 it feels like you cant do that.... Every time I try to be aggressive I always find myself being shield-grabbed. Also in Smash 4, there's obviously no wavedashing; so I feel like I can't maneuver/space my character around well. I assume the best way to handle that is rolling.....
I dunno tho. If you guys have any advice on the Smash 4 neutral game, tips for getting better, or just resources for growing my knowledge of the neutral game I would love to hear it. Thanks

 

[Octavium]

Being aggressive in smash 4 is much different since L-cancelling is no longer present and shields are much more powerful. However even though you can't reduce your landing lag anymore with L-cancelling for shield pressure, there are still some safe moves on shields in this game if you space them correctly.

Spacing is very important since you can attack the shield while usually being far or fast enough to avoid a punish. Heres a list of semi-safe moves on shield. The gist of the neutral game is to pressure/condition your opponent in a multitude of ways by positioning safe or semi-safe hitboxes in order to create an opening that you can then punish, either by a damage racking combo or a killmove.

With my limited competitive background this is all I can do to help, if you want more knowledge about your main's safe moves you should check for their frame data.

 

[Nate22Hill]

When your reading an opponent do you kind of take like mental notes so you remember what they do and if they do it again

 

[Shaya]

I usually think about their patterns of aggression / defense (like a lot of players will go 'attack' -> defensive choice), 'oh they nair and then dash away' 'oh they forward tilt and then jump', these things which are more subtle allow consistent reads. How someone acts in a pressure situation is also good (like a tech chase and always rolling away or get up attacking), because those tend to be more static.

I guess instead of it being reads, it's more like understanding what the opponent's entire repertoire is and trying to pick actions which cover all of their choices.
As the game develops there will come a better knowledge of what the best option is in any given situation, and having the punish down for that forces responses that you can read as they require immediate responses from the opponent every time.

...
So in general I wouldn't necessarily make mental notes of things in advance, more like as a game goes on I notice frequent occurrences (usually one's that result in me getting punished, but others like how they avoid something I rely on [set up into a combo]) and then start to think about that option's usages and how to counter/cover it.

 

[xxdavis97]

hey guys I for the most part play melee but I'm looking to get into smash 4 as well what are some tips you can give to help me out? For me it's hard to transition as I accidentally will try to wave dash or l-cancel and those things aren't in the game so it screws me up lol. I'm looking to main Roy

 

[xxdavis97]

Yo just joined the site and also only just got into Super Smash Bros.

I was hoping that someone here might be willing to help me learn to play somewhat decently? There are a lot of different characters (I managed to unlock them all and I bought mewtwo) so um I'm not really sure what to do. Should I pick just one character? or should I play multiple ones? I really have no idea lol.

I've tried playing a little on the For Glory 1v1 mode. At first I lost every time but I think I'm getting the hang of it a little as I've managed to win the last 5 games I played

So yeah if anyone would be willing to take some time to sit and play with me and maybe teach me some of the basics (perhaps even some more advanced stuff?) I would really appreciate it, I'd like to be able to get better but I'm completely lost at the moment, just navigating around the site seems daunting seeing as there is so much content! I apologize if I ended up posting this in the wrong place but I just wasn't sure, please forgive me if I made a mistake

Thanks

Outcastcarrot97 add me

So I am a competitive Melee player, and recently I've been trying to get into Smash 4. However, the neutral game is obviously a lot different than Melee. When I play against the casual player in Smash 4 I usually win, however I feel like when I play against somebody who knows what they're doing I usually lose. I feel like I struggle really bad in the Neutral game.
I have noticed a couple of things I think I'm doing wrong. As a Melee player I love being aggressive (I played Falco in Melee). However in Smash 4 it feels like you cant do that.... Every time I try to be aggressive I always find myself being shield-grabbed. Also in Smash 4, there's obviously no wavedashing; so I feel like I can't maneuver/space my character around well. I assume the best way to handle that is rolling.....
I dunno tho. If you guys have any advice on the Smash 4 neutral game, tips for getting better, or just resources for growing my knowledge of the neutral game I would love to hear it. Thanks

Yeah I've been playing sheik and marth in melee for awhile now and getting the hang of this is hard... Perfect pivoting the action when you flick the joystick back and forth really quick then allowing it to turn to neutral(think of it as dash dancing once) is similar to a wave dash.. The newer games like brawl and smash 4 definitely reward defensive play more than say melee in which aggressiveness wins you games however I tend to charge then roll away last second to bait them(similar to dashing and wavedashing back in melee) then go for a boost grab or dash attack

Yo there! I've noticed I've had a lot anxiety or hesitation on playing due having to deal with my playstyle getting easily countered overtime, no matter how much advantage I'm having. It doesn't change much (whether defensive or aggressive), but it's just that It seems the more momentum I have, the easier it is to counter me back, leading me always back to footsies and having to deal with neutral game while the opponent is basically not taking any action just to bait me in.

It gets tiring because over the long run it has had me play too much on defensive side or not even committing enough to keep things fresh but it always means more breathing space and momentum for certain players or characters they employ that could break these things with more advantage in such matchup.

Basically my playstyles (no matter what kind) seem to be easily read over time and then found counters, but if I were to try mix things up, it lets the opponent be able to take the momentum from me much easier, whether having more options and possibly attacking back on me. Like, it's actually disadvantageous for me to have a proper momentum unless my character has enough "mechanics" or priority, quick attacks, etc to back the momentum up. What to do?

Keeping things fresh while difficult is how you win games, for example in melee my friend would always run in and grab me with march so I learned to just spot dodge then either grab him or fsmash... After I proceeded to win 8 or 9 games straight he learned that if he shieldstopped his dash instead of grabbing he would bait my spot dodge then he could grab or fsmash... He then proceeded to win everytime so I began mixing spot dodges and grabs myself etc... Moral is while adaptation is not easy it's more worth it than sticking to the same predictable patterns

 

[Shaya]

@ xxdavis97 , please try to avoid multi posting in a row. Edit your previous posts instead
I merged your original topic with this one so I'll keep that post separate though.

 

[xxdavis97]

Okay will do sorry I'm new to the boards, thank you

 

[BSP]

How many frames is throwing an item from hand? I remember 6 for some reason, but I'm not sure that's correct.

 

[~Neutral~]

I wanted to talk about something relating to Smash Attacks and Tilts.

As far as I'm concerned there's two ways to do Smash Attacks and Tilts, the obvious one being + and the second being . However whenever I find myself using the + method I often find myself slipping roughly 50% of the time in the heat of the battle using a smash attack or tilt I didn't intend (this is especially true in online play). In the case of the method though this isn't the case, I always seem to get the reliable smash attack or tilt attack I'm looking for. But the problem is I can only assign one or the other to , so my question is this:

What is the most reliable way to perform a Smash Attack and a Tilt in competitive play? What's typically the best assignment to the ? Are people using quick smashes (quick smash being a term I'm hearing a lot, but don't quite get it) on it more, or are people using tilt attacks with it? I guess it depends on the player/character but I thought I would ask anyways. If it helps the characters I'm actively using at the moment are Ganondorf and Roy.

Thanks for the help!

Edit: Just noticed the input thread stickied in this board, oh well, I guess we can still talk about it in this thread?

 

[LightLV]

C stick for smash, better analog control for tilts. Unfortunately. I had tilts on Cstick once and had to deal with the game randomly throwing out jabs (???????)

I really, really wish you could alter the analog sensitivity in this game. I'd literally make myself have to N64 tap to dash. Walk to shield, and turngrabs/tilts are way too important in this game, way more than silly dash attacks.

 

[Celestial Cookie]

Hi! I'm pretty new to both the competitive scene and the Smash community in general, and was hoping to become semi-competent.

Any Pit/Pittoo users who could give me some advice? I'm quite horrible (I panic and everything goes wrong), but I could definitely use some playstyle tips. I've gone into training mode and messed around with most of the cast, and those two click with me pretty well.

 

[KingWTA]

I need help to git gud. I suck really bad. I only have the 3DS version. I want someone to give me advice on how to stop my bad habits and improve drastically. I am looking for amazing Luigi mains to help me improve my play. Thanks

 

[hm.edge]

I'm a 12 year old boy who is looking to start going to tournaments. I feel that I'm not good enough to beat pros, I'm only about 45% on For Glory. Does anyone want to have a session with me? We could go over my play and finetune it. I main lucas. I only have the wii U version, my NNID is 2GIGABYTES. Any tips and combos would be great!

 

[Storm Erion]

So, I just went through a Smash Ladder match, my Link vs a Ness, and, I noticed that he was just able to grab me over and over and get tons of percent on me. He was on the road to beating me, but I just started charging arrows, and using them over and over again. He kept trying to perfect shield them, and he did, sometimes, but when he did I'd grab him with the now buffed grab, and send him away again. I'd eventually push him towards the ledge, where i pushed him off with arrows to make him jump back up, and I shot his head as it poked up above the ledge. I basically almost solely used arrows in that match because I knew I'd lose otherwise.

Naturally, he complained during the set a lot. That wasn't the only time, either. Almost every opponent I beat ends up saying something like "Wow you're such a campy Link..." or something along those lines. It makes me wonder if my attitude towards Link is the wrong one. The way I see it, I don't want to, nor should I have to get close when someone has better close range game than me. I'm GOING to lose if I'm getting beat close range, so I use my projectiles to keep them as far away as possible, only using close ranged stuff like bomb mix ups and whatnot if I absolutely have to. If I can play the entire match being on one side of the screen using projectiles, I would. Not to say my close range game with Link is BAD, it's just I prefer to keep people at a distance, which is why I play a zoning character to begin with.

Am I the bad guy in all of this? I'm just feeling guilty after all of this.

 

[hm.edge]

I've noticed that i roll way to much. I want to go to tournaments and i know that rolls can be punished heavily. How do i stop myself from rolling and how do i punish rolling? Thanks

 

[ToxoT]

just get a feel for walking around the stage instead of positioning yourself solely by dodging, when you're walking you can still shield and spotdodge or counterattack. it's good to practice turning around and attacking as well

 

[cot(θ)]

Set all your shield buttons to something else, then go on FG until you win a game.

 

[SonDeathEater]

When you play, avoid using rolling at all times and always actively notice that you're about to rolling to the point where you know almost instinctively.
After getting the hang of it, think when to shield/spot dodge/roll.
I don't remember how I got used ot it, but I almost always notice when I roll or stop myself.
Rolling depends on the situation. I roll on an shield breaker,attacks that can't be dodged or blocked, and situations where the only way to benefit is a high amount of quick reaction which you almost need godlike reactions or simply roll to punish.
I have the problem mostly because I only have a 3DS currently.I can turn around,but attacks too quick for me ends in dodging and I rarely roll except incredibly rare occasions and a time or two in FG lag.

Punishing rolls is basically predicting a roll in one direction and you lead up with a dash attack or grab.Not to mention downsmashes.Depends on your main though.
I'm not really all that good but I hope this helps.