Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

[Kielhaul]

I'm somewhat new to competitive smash, but I'd like to stay in this community. So I have a question, how do you train? As in how often do you play? Do you use cpus? Online? Friends? Tourneys? I would love to learn how to get better, I do decently well against my friends but past that'd I'm not so good. I watch and read guides so I know what to do and I play pretty often but I don't feel myself improving to where I'd like to be. And tips on how to get better would greatly help, being specific would be even better. Thank you
P.S. I main Ness

 

[AnchorTea]

Step 1: Learn about your character's techs, ATs, Tips, Tricks, Fun Stuff, and a lot of everything
Step 2: Practice Step 1 in training mode.
Step 3: Practice those with real players with local multiplayer or Smash Ladder (don't use FG)
Step 4: Practice with real players in general for a few hours
Step 5: Play training mode every now and then. You will find neat things you thought you could never do.
Step 6:Learn Matchups, Frame, and Stage data
Step 7: Try to be original. Copying other top players strategies won't get you far. Trust me.
Step 8: Go to local or online tourneys. (Local is better)
Step 9: Repeat steps 4 through 7 to git gud.

Important stuff:
Don't be a tier *****
Don't be cocky
Think thoroughly before replying or posting on Smashboards
You are going to hit a wall were you just think you can't get better. You need to take a small break from Smash if that ever happens. (Like a few days)
There is an advice thread for those who need help:

http://smashboards.com/threads/game-play-advice-and-general-discussion.382927/

 

[Duck SMASH!]

Can someone do an ELI5 regarding baiting?
I always hear about it, but I never really know how to do this...
It's partly because I'm very predictable and one track minded when it comes to my play...

 

[Duck SMASH!]

Edit: Double post. sorry >.>

 

[pikazz]

so, I have encounter my biggest flaws in smash which I want to improve but hve problem with them.

1. I have really trouble at punishing rollers, especially when I am running at them! I know that they will roll back but 10 of 10, I either grab or dash attack too early so it misses. does anyone know how I can improve myself or what other options should I do if I am still struggling?

2. I have hard time at using Pivot Tilts and B-reverse in competive smash. I can do them pretty flawlessly when I am doing it (like in practice mode ect), but I dont know where I should use them effectly together imgrate them into my play! any tips of what I should do?

 

[Eonn]

I struggle a lot with baiting moves and dealing with characters who have longer physical range or disjointed hit boxes (such as Link, or even characters like Luigi or Sheik at times). I mainly play Pikachu, but. I need fundamental help regarding this spacing/baiting issue (not character specific tech, like "just quick attack or chase a thunder jolt").

Last game I played was Melee, so I'm used to dash dancing in and out of the opponents range to bait attacks and using wave dashing to cancel the dash animation into something like a dtilt with Marth, for example. Since dance dashing isn't in this game (or at least Melee -esque dash dancing) I struggle with baiting moves and getting around characters who out prioritize me. I try jumping around or fox trotting, but neither have the same effect and I'm often too far away to actually punish their whiffed moves. Any tips?

 

[Murlough]

As the title suggests, how do you competitive players train? I want to become a competitive smash player but **** if i don't feel discouraged.

I do what i can and try to learn new techs and combos (still not figuring things out at all) but it just isnt sinking in.

I make the same mistakes repeatedly (too much rolling, too aggressive, use a tilt instead of a smash and verse visa, etc.) I want to know what i can do to become a real player.

Most of the time i play for glory because it has some semblance of the competitive scene but everyone says that only weak scrubs play on that and yet i, a player since melee, who understands the controls and all the characters, and who wants to become better more than most (i would think. Im prepared to rip my hair out at this point.) always seem to lose 60% of the time.

What would you recommend as good training exercises or ways to help step up a persons game? Any tips are appreciated as long as they aren't "git gud". Ive heard it before. Im trying. Stahp seyin dat tu meh plz.

 

[Charey]

Do you have any tournaments in your area you can go to? Just going to a local and playing a lot of friendly matches and talking with other players is the best thing for getting started.

As for Tech skill that is just drilling it in practice mode over and over until you don't even have to think about it, It takes some time.

 

[DeathlyFerret]

1. Intentionally seek out and play smashers who are better than you. I got DESTROYED by Mr. R a few days ago. I did, though, learn a lot from the matches.
2. Enter tourneys regularly for experience. You'll also want to play friendlies while you're there.
3. Keep up with techs and the community in general. You may learn things that will drastically improve your play (but seeing that you're premium, I guess you've got this covered).
4. Practice. Spend hours and hours and hours in training mode if you need to. Don't get discouraged if you don't get something right away. It took me 4 days to be able to Perfect Pivot consistently, but in the end, it proved to be worth the effort.
5. Apply. Do something such as "use perfect pivots effectively 10 times in a for glory match" to help you grasp and understand your techs.
And my final point...
6. Keep a level head. You never perform your best if you're angry, sad, discouraged, intimidated, etc. Do whatever you can to keep calm (listen to music, whatever).

Good luck, man.

 

[Murlough]

Do you have any tournaments in your area you can go to? Just going to a local and playing a lot of friendly matches and talking with other players is the best thing for getting started.

As for Tech skill that is just drilling it in practice mode over and over until you don't even have to think about it, It takes some time.

I live in Tennessee. Ive tried searching for local tours on smashboards in my area and didnt see anything :/.

Also i just saw the sub-forum of the competitive forum so i apologize for asking for info when ot was literally right in front of me xD. The mods can feel free to close the thread or move it (although they dont really need my permission lol).

Also @ DeathlyFerret thanks .

 

[STiCKYBULL3TZ]

So I've realized one of my main flaws. I lose to defensive options, mainly rolls and spotdodges, even if they are spammed. Against faster characters, it's harder for me to recognize the pattern or punish because those defensive options are so fast. If I whiff while trying to punish a roll or spotdodge, then I eat a bunch of damage. I don't have too much of an issue with this as Luigi but I struggle as Fox. His Dsmash hits on both sides simultaneously so I often do it too early even when I get the read.

I feel like ultimately this is a result of me not being patient and/or being too aggressive. Players can safely assume that I'm always going to attack and can just roll or spotdodge to avoid. Something I'm currently working on. My solution is to calm down and not try to play so fast paced because I'm playing Fox. Patience should help a lot here. Any other suggestions will be great!. Thanks.

 

[CaptainZer0dew]

Hey does someone have a reference or chart of all character counter picks? I tried to find one online, but to no avail I couldn't find a full list.

Thanks!

 

[Duck SMASH!]

so, I have encounter my biggest flaws in smash which I want to improve but hve problem with them.

1. I have really trouble at punishing rollers, especially when I am running at them! I know that they will roll back but 10 of 10, I either grab or dash attack too early so it misses. does anyone know how I can improve myself or what other options should I do if I am still struggling?

Slow down. You are trapped in your running animation most of the time which limits your options.
walk. If you get them to the edge you know they will only be able to roll towards you. Prepare a smash attack and let it rip once they roll into you.
If you still need to run, the only solution is practice and training on an evasive CPU, or treat For Glory scrubs as your practice targets.

 

[pikazz]

Slow down. You are trapped in your running animation most of the time which limits your options.
walk. If you get them to the edge you know they will only be able to roll towards you. Prepare a smash attack and let it rip once they roll into you.
If you still need to run, the only solution is practice and training on an evasive CPU, or treat For Glory scrubs as your practice targets.

so then I am running against some thats I am 100% that will shield and roll away from me, should I bait it with a "dash" and slow down into a walk? is that what you are saying? not sure if the distance between that is enough :/

 

[wertyou2]

What are the best characters to take down fast, rushdown characters? I currently play DK, and am looking into Luigi, but strangely enough I seem to do better with DK.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

so then I am running against some thats I am 100% that will shield and roll away from me, should I bait it with a "dash" and slow down into a walk? is that what you are saying? not sure if the distance between that is enough :/

No, that doesn't work because when you stop dashing you are trapped in another animation.
Consider Bowser, for example. He has a great dash speed, but he's best off walking. If you slowly advance, you will find it easier to punish their reaction, like powershielding projectiles, or shield grabbing if they try a dash attack. Just close the distance between you and your opponent, and then punish their inevitable choice.
If you run, make sure that you're close enough/fast enough that you can punish them in the 20 frames they're vulnerable after their roll. If you can't, don't bother chasing and stop running.

 

[Nate22Hill]

what are you suppose to look for in an opponent

 

[Eonn]

How do you DI/escape multi jab combos from character like Sheik, Robin, Little Mac, CFalcon, and Fox? I always seem to get hit by the full jab. I play Pikachu, if it matters.

Additionally, how should you DI against Sheik to avoid fair strings as well as UThrow or DThrow combos?

Thanks!

 

[CrazyPerson]

So... I can't seem to get the hang of low jumping...

This is key part of improvement... so how in the world should I go about learning?

 

[ShadowKing]

So I'm real good at landing spikes but need help spiking people who air dodge plus I don't want to over predict

 

[PokemonyeWest]

Well, if you suspect they're going to air dodge just wait until they do and then spike. Simple as that. Air dodges have a lot of recovery frames.

 

[outfoxd]

Who you play? If projectiles, shove a hitbox out and force the airdodge first. If no, feint and make em think you're comin'. Then come when they think you not comin' no more.

 

[Funkermonster]

I heard from somebody that if you set c-stick to smash, your character loses some of his/her aerial speed when using it for aerials or something, while if you set it to tilts your character keeps full aerial mobility. Is this true? Cause' if so, maybe I should transfer to Tilts, would make spacing with aerials a little easier.

 

[Eonn]

Don't understand what I'm supposed to do against Sonic. Half his moves look the same and he moves way to fast to punish with anything. Shielding gets me grabbed, and rolling or sidestepping get me punished anyway. I can't seem to beat out his spin dash or aerials either. Apparently I should be punishing his landing, but he can move instantly after landing with dair and none of his moves put him into fast fall. Help?

 

[Kaladin]

Don't understand what I'm supposed to do against Sonic. Half his moves look the same and he moves way to fast to punish with anything. Shielding gets me grabbed, and rolling or sidestepping get me punished anyway. I can't seem to beat out his spin dash or aerials either. Apparently I should be punishing his landing, but he can move instantly after landing with dair and none of his moves put him into fast fall. Help?

Check out the the Pika MU thread. Basically let him do his roll-y thing and punish landings.

 

[Pazx]

I heard from somebody that if you set c-stick to smash, your character loses some of his/her aerial speed when using it for aerials or something, while if you set it to tilts your character keeps full aerial mobility. Is this true? Cause' if so, maybe I should transfer to Tilts, would make spacing with aerials a little easier.

Confirmed. You do not lose any aerial momentum if you tap the C stick for a single frame, though.

 

[TheAnomaly]

@ Eonn The best way to learn to play against ANY character is to use that character yourself for a bit to see what they can and can't do. From the time you know what is and isn't safe for them, you then know how to go about punishing based on your own character's options.

 

[ShadowKing]

So lately people want to land spikes for more damage and quick kills here are 6 ways how
1.Time the spike:So first you want to deal enough damage where they finally are high enough to be spiked next grab or dash attack them to knock them off the match the go for it
2.Most people know that you want to spike so they air sodge.What I learned was that first you want to jump over them like your spikeing wait for the air dodge the spike.
3.Stage spike:Most players like to hang on the edge a lot *cough*m2k*cough* so what you want do is smash attack them into the stage like Captain Falocs back air this will knock them straight down.
4.So most people go all the down to avoid a spike so what you should do is run off the stage save the 2 jums and up b plus some spikes like mewtwos pushes you up after that jump twice and up b and your safe.
5.Combos:Like m2k does with Marth in melee do it with your main or mains in 4 like what I do with mewtwo i go for a few grabs,shadowballs,dash attacks,and side smashs. After go for a grab or dash attack then spike check rule 2,3,and 4 to avoid edge grabs,air dodges and going real far under the stage.
6.Most people will attack when your going for a spike what you should do is air dodge jump once and spike.
Those are all tips I can give you to land spikes and more tips you guys have I'd like to know so I can add them on the list.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

So lately people want to land spikes for more damage and quick kills here are 6 ways how
1.Time the spike:So first you want to deal enough damage where they finally are high enough to be spiked next grab or dash attack them to knock them off the match the go for it
2.Most people know that you want to spike so they air sodge.What I learned was that first you want to jump over them like your spikeing wait for the air dodge the spike.
3.Stage spike:Most players like to hang on the edge a lot *cough*m2k*cough* so what you want do is smash attack them into the stage like Captain Falocs back air this will knock them straight down.
4.So most people go all the down to avoid a spike so what you should do is run off the stage save the 2 jums and up b plus some spikes like mewtwos pushes you up after that jump twice and up b and your safe.
5.Combos:Like m2k does with Marth in melee do it with your main or mains in 4 like what I do with mewtwo i go for a few grabs,shadowballs,dash attacks,and side smashs. After go for a grab or dash attack then spike check rule 2,3,and 4 to avoid edge grabs,air dodges and going real far under the stage.
6.Most people will attack when your going for a spike what you should do is air dodge jump once and spike.
Those are all tips I can give you to land spikes and more tips you guys have I'd like to know so I can add them on the list.

Merged your post with the Gameplay Advice and General Discussion Thread; no need to have a new thread over such a basic game concept. You may find that people are pretty well-versed in that sort of thing to begin with.

 

[mario123007]

So... I can't seem to get the hang of low jumping...

This is key part of improvement... so how in the world should I go about learning?

Change it to button jump?

 

[MickBissun]

Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask (I'm a newcomer to this site), but does anyone have any tips for the Marth vs Rosalina matchup? I often find it hard to get in and get a solid lead on her, since punishing anything that she does aside from a dash attack is completely out of the picture in the hands of a skilled player as Luma can hit me out of anything that I attempt to punish her for, and she can close in and punish me if I try to get rid of the Luma thanks to the lag Marth suffers. If both punishing and gaining offensive momentum is tough for Marth against her, then it feels like I'm fighting a losing battle, yet I still want to show that the Hero King is still a worthy character to play despite not being as good as he was in previous games.

 

[ShadowKing]

Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask (I'm a newcomer to this site), but does anyone have any tips for the Marth vs Rosalina matchup? I often find it hard to get in and get a solid lead on her, since punishing anything that she does aside from a dash attack is completely out of the picture in the hands of a skilled player as Luma can hit me out of anything that I attempt to punish her for, and she can close in and punish me if I try to get rid of the Luma thanks to the lag Marth suffers. If both punishing and gaining offensive momentum is tough for Marth against her, then it feels like I'm fighting a losing battle, yet I still want to show that the Hero King is still a worthy character to play despite not being as good as he was in previous games.

Try to knock out luma and go for sheild grabs worked for me

 

[LozNerd]

So, I have loved ssb since melee and am planning on going to my first ssb tourney soon (for wii u), I main link in ssb4 and secondary rosalina & luma. I mostly do "for glory" 1 v 1 and I win about 45% of the time. I am trying to look for a way to pump my smash skills to the next level, what is the best way to train for a tourney by yourself in this game? Any other advice on character selection? Any character I should play to play off R & L + Link's weaknesses?

Thanks!

 

[CrazyPerson]

Change it to button jump?

Currently I have R as jump... I had hoped a pressure sensitive button would be easier to control. (Gamecube controller)

 

[Jaxas]

Currently I have R as jump... I had hoped a pressure sensitive button would be easier to control. (Gamecube controller)

Ahh, that's (part of) your problem then. With how Smash 4 handles the trigger inputs, it's very difficult to reliably get a short hop.

For reference, in Brawl the triggers worked with an ON or OFF signal (whether the button at the bottom of the trigger pull was pressed or not), meaning you could press and release it in time to short hop.
In Smash 4, you have to press it past a specific point (on the trigger's path down to the button), and then hope it springs up past that point again in time.

 

[CrazyPerson]

Ahh, that's (part of) your problem then. With how Smash 4 handles the trigger inputs, it's very difficult to reliably get a short hop.

For reference, in Brawl the triggers worked with an ON or OFF signal (whether the button at the bottom of the trigger pull was pressed or not), meaning you could press and release it in time to short hop.
In Smash 4, you have to press it past a specific point (on the trigger's path down to the button), and then hope it springs up past that point again in time.

Any suggestions on an alternative?

 

[Jaxas]

Any suggestions on an alternative?

There's X and Y of course, or you can try really hard to master L/R jump anyways (like I'm doing; used L jump in Brawl forever, so...)

Alternatively you can remap Z to jump and grab with a different button, I hear a lot of people have been doing that with some success


Just to make extra sure you (or anyone else reading this) knows, though, the absolute basics on how to short hop:

- Press jump (-> Character's Jumpsquat animation begins)
- Release jump before your character is airborne (Jumpsquat frames are generally 4-6 frames, if I remember right. Character specific) to Short Hop, hold longer to Full Hop

So basically it's all about releasing in time (not pressing lightly like some people think)

 

[Jrzfine]

A lot of people are gonna give you grief about using For Glory to train, but I am indifferent to the mode. It can be useful at times.

Before the tourney, consider hoppping into Training mode to practice tech skill and basic combos. Personally what I do is do the same combo about 100 times, then I tell myself to nail it flawlessly 10 times in a row. Once I am able to do it, I'll take a break or do something else. Also i'd recommend learning how to ledgetrump and preform Link's extended dash dance. They're useful movement options that can catch the opponent by surprise.

When you get to the tournament, play friendlies until your thumb falls off. Even if you get smoked, which you inevitably will. Local matches are where everyone can play to their fullest potential , so make the most of the time you have to play against other good players locally. Stay for the entire tournament, and aim to be the last guy to walk out of there, playing any and everyone you can in the meantime.

Any character I should play to play off R & L + Link's weaknesses?

Personally I am against the idea of having secondaries. The time you spent learning your secondary should be, in my opinion, instead used to master your main by knowing the ins and outs of ALL their matchups, good and bad....But I know that many other people like having secondaries, so, if you must, Pikachu or Captain Falcon would probably be who you're looking for.

 

[TheAxeWarrior]

@ Eonn The best way to learn to play against ANY character is to use that character yourself for a bit to see what they can and can't do. From the time you know what is and isn't safe for them, you then know how to go about punishing based on your own character's options.

Wow, I have never heard of that strategy before.. That's amazing advice! Can't believe I haven't thought of that yet, genius!

 

[Sudoi]

/Background/

I've been playing smash since it came out on 3DS, and got it on Wii U later. I play with Shulk mainly and I have toyed with Marth/Lucina and mained C. Falcon for a bit. I have an O.K. (STRESS the OK as much as possible please) when it comes to reading, spacing is 50/50 yet I need help on Nailing down those final mistakes. I maximize arts and so on and so forth, Utilize techniques such as MALLC, JCUS, ASOOS, all that. But I can't hold my own in battle at tourneys! None of my friends are in my LEAGUE when it comes to this game, so no help from them.

/Why you're Here/

I need someone who can help me on the weekends, maybe 1-3 (or more if you want to) sessions at around 7:00 PM US Eastern (New York) Not in person mind you, Online. Someone who has an advanced understanding of the game and yet explain things simply.

/Communication/

I don't do Skype, although you can email me at TheBlargbla@Gmail.com
Kik: Blargbla
Twitter: Blargbla