Q&A Game Play Advice and General Discussion

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Welcome to...ops! Welp, calm yourself and don't think so much about the prize. Play like you do against Lvl9 CPUs/ For Glory, and focus on the opponent and on you. Try your best, and if you do any bad mistake, try to fix it as quick as possible. The remedy is inside of you, so the end of nervousness will come from inside of you!

 

[RayNoire]

I drink water before and after every match. It seems to help a lot.

 

[Still~Wolf]

I've only ever entered one tournament: I was shakey as a leaf.
Really, it's important to just try to enjoy it though. When I calmed down, I managed to get into 2nd place. It improves your playing when you're chill. Just drink water and sit down between matches. I would have passed out otherwise .

 

[Dustydog96]

Some music can take your mind off the "nervousness" we bring upon ourselves during tournament matches. After playing my first match in a local tourney my body felt PARALYZED for hours after until my 2nd match due to how nervous and close the set came. And music, water & relaxation helped me prep for my next match. Also just have some fun, get the positive endorphin running.

 

[TheAxeWarrior]

Haha, I JUST noticed you posted this, I definitely would've played you if I had saw this at the right time. I'm adding you right now, if you ever see me on, let me know and we'll play a few rounds! :D

Heh, that's fine! ^^ Yeah, same here dude. If you see me on, or vice versa, I'll open a room and you can join. Or, again, vice versa, if you'd prefer.

 

[erico9001]

I went to my first tourny the other day, and yeah, the nerves. It was worse when I got to finals and people were watching.

I went through my large water ball like 7 times that day and went to the bathroom 4 times. Drinking water can help to calm down.

Having somebody you know with you to talk to helps. Listening to music helps. Deep breathing helps (feel free to do mid-match). Having some space from you and your opponent(s) could also help (so you don't at all feel like you're connecting with them). Sitting down inbetween matches helps. Or possibly even walking away from people to get a sort of 'breather.' Also, maybe blending in can help? What I mean is realizing that the people there don't know who you are and don't really care about you. That can go a long way for removing pressure; although, the 'special snowflakes' of my generation may not like that notion.

It can be hard, especially for people who are more extreme in introversion. On the other hand, exteme extroverts will actually thrive in these environments, performing at their best. While people in gaming tend to be more introverted, it's probable you would see a higher ratio of extroverts at irl tournaments.

 

[McZaxon]

Heh, that's fine! ^^ Yeah, same here dude. If you see me on, or vice versa, I'll open a room and you can join. Or, again, vice versa, if you'd prefer.

Awesome! will do! I guest the host will all depend on whose on first. xD

 

[TheAxeWarrior]

Awesome! will do! I guest the host will all depend on whose on first. xD

That's right.. Hey, I see you're on right now! Go ahead and enter my room if yah want.

 

[McZaxon]

That's right.. Hey, I see you're on right now! Go ahead and enter my room if yah want.

Heh, I joined, but I don't know what happened in that second match! D: I'm sorry if that was my fault! Can't wait till we play again!

 

[DannyShadowHunter]

I don't play Ness myself, but I would be more than happy to give you some pointers.

First off, throwing out random attacks is a good way to lose. You need to learn how to read your oppoent's moves, and react accondingly. It can be hard at first, but reading your oppoent is the first thing thing to learn.

Also, understand your defensive options. Know when your shield, dodge and air dodge. This goes hand and hand with reading your oppoent.

Ness has an answer to Pit's arrows. PSI Magnet can be used to asorb Pit's arrows. This can help limit Pit's control of the stage from long range, and force an approach.

Use PK Fire to help Ness control the stage and trap Pit into an attack that leaves him open to follow up attacks. The most common ones I see are Ness' forward Smash and his Back Throw. Keep in mind one thing and that is not to spam PK fire. Pit can reflect it back at Ness with Guardian Orbitors, and can also use Upperdash Arm to plow through PK fire(Upperdash Arm deflects PK fire and grants him Super Armor frames)

Because of the defensive options in the game, learn what Ness' best attacks are that don't leave him open to counterattacks. These are his safest attacks that allow him to act quickly even if his attacks are shielded.

That is all I can think of right now.

Thanks man i appreciate you replying to me and giving me some tips on how i can improve my game.

I feel like im throwing out random attacks because i havent fully understood Ness's arsenal of attacks and what each of his attacks are suppost to be used for in different situations, because i recently found out Ness's Nair should be used for follow ups, punishing rolls, and its a great out of shield option. I never knew that Ness's neutral air is used for those things. Normally if i throw out a Nair i just use it randomly hoping it hits my opponent to rack up damage. (same goes for other attacks i throw out especially when i use pkfire) If i never realized that then i must not know my character too well. im gonna dedicate some time into learning ness's moveset before i start off learning other things.
Do you think this would be the right move?

I can tell having to read my opponents moves is gonna be extremely difficult for me but like how you mentioned to learn Ness's best attacks,i feel like i'll have an easier time because i'll know what moves to use to punish/ read my opponent thus learning the my defensive options as you said. Though im probably wrong though since i still am a rookie at this game.

Thanks for your tips on fighting Pit i will defiently keep that in mind!

 

[busken]

@ Shaya since this is a game play advice thread are we allowed to upload videos our game play to be critiqued?

 

[ぱみゅ]

They are preferred to be posted at the respective character board.

 

[LegendaryIcee]

I'm trying to main shulk, and I'm having trouble with most rush down characters. I'm not that good to begin with, so I either need advice and/or a match with some of you Little Macs, Sheiks, etc. Like I said, I only consider myself to be average, with a 50-60% win rate.

 

[Omegaphoenix]

Shulk's main advantage is that his range is absolutely x-box huge. Unfortunately, he's also slow and commits to a lot of actions he takes. A rushdown character is going to do their level best to get in on you. Your job is to keep them out. All I can say is learn his faster moves which can get a person out of your space fast. I'm not a good Shulk player, but I find short hop fairs and nairs with Shulk are useful options, as they have enough range to keep rushdowns out of your space while attacking.

Also, broken ass counter, don't spam it, but the length on that thing is crazy.

 

[TheAxeWarrior]

I'm trying to main shulk, and I'm having trouble with most rush down characters. I'm not that good to begin with, so I either need advice and/or a match with some of you Little Macs, Sheiks, etc. Like I said, I only consider myself to be average, with a 50-60% win rate.

Sorry, I don't play Sheik or Mac, so I'm afraid I can be of much help to you in that department.. However, I can offer advice!
Like, Mr. Phoenix said, Shulk's biggest advantage is his out-of-this-world range. If you find yourself against a rush-down character, try rushing THEM down! a good approach option is to short-hop fair as you get closer to your opponent. They won't be able to do much when you've got that big ol' Manado in front of you.
If a fighter is camping and spamming projectiles, regardless of your character, a good option is to WALK, not run, toward your enemy and perfect shield every time they throw something at you.

That's all I've got for now, hope it helped!

 

[protomanfan25]

Hi guys, I got absolutely obliterated at grand finals of a local tourney. I was wondering you you guys could take a gander at the video, and tell me how to improve my gameplay!
http://www.twitch.tv/privatequantum/v/5361921
My B05 Finals starts at 04:09:33. I am Proto.

After reviewing the footage myself, I noticed 2 things.

1. Firing a shot after round 1, and putting him into "Defend my honor" mode was very unwise, lol.

2. In the final match, I was very trigger happy with F-Smash.

What do you guys think I can fix?

 

[Omegaphoenix]

Okay, first problem, you took Ness to Smashville, twice. He loves it. Don't let him have it.

Not 3D player, won't go for that, although you threw out a few Gordos that looked unsafe.

Captain Falcon, you dash attacked a shielded ness, on the ledge, twice. It's unsafe on block, and you did it too Ness, AKA king of the backthrow. That got you hurt there. That's all I can say.

 

[protomanfan25]

Okay, first problem, you took Ness to Smashville, twice. He loves it. Don't let him have it.

Not 3D player, won't go for that, although you threw out a few Gordos that looked unsafe.

Captain Falcon, you dash attacked a shielded ness, on the ledge, twice. It's unsafe on block, and you did it too Ness, AKA king of the backthrow. That got you hurt there. That's all I can say.

Thanks for the speedy reply! I just want to clarify.
So you beleve my main issue, is that I need to think more in the neutral before leaping in?

 

[NotAnAdmin]

Congrats on making it to a Grand Finals!
To me it looks like you were hitting the panic button a couple times and doing some unsafe moves.
I would argue that probably 60% of playing Smash at a high level is keeping your cool.
Then afterwards you seemed to be trying too hard to get the first stock off on the Ness and ended up running into a bunch of what the Ness wanted.
Like before keep your head on straight, if you got to Grand Finals you're doing something right. If you can, in between matches take a second to reflect on what you need to do.

 

[protomanfan25]

Congrats on making it to a Grand Finals!
To me it looks like you were hitting the panic button a couple times and doing some unsafe moves.
I would argue that probably 60% of playing Smash at a high level is keeping your cool.
Then afterwards you seemed to be trying too hard to get the first stock off on the Ness and ended up running into a bunch of what the Ness wanted.
Like before keep your head on straight, if you got to Grand Finals you're doing something right. If you can, in between matches take a second to reflect on what you need to do.

Thanks :3.
This was actually my first tournament, so a lot of people are pointing out I probably had a bit of the jitters. While o can't say I was heavily feeling the effects of it, my play probably was.

Anywho, I'll take your advice to heart. It sounds like it would help a lot, actually. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Raethien]

How important is it to understand and study frames?

 

[Ikes]

Okay guys, I've got a question regarding de GC controller and the use of the c-stick.
As you may know, there's an issue regarding the c-stick when using aerials (it blocks the left stick and you cant control your aerial momentum). At first I was really preocupied by the issue, but then I started just tapping the c-stick for my aerials and i was able to control my aerial momentum.

So I hear there's lots of people changing their c-stick controls to "Attack" instead of "Smash Attack". My question is... Is there any difference between changing the controls and just tapping the c-stick regarding aerial momentum? What controls are you guys using?

And one last thing... I've been asking myself about how to hold the controller while doing aerials, cuz i've tried 3 ways...

1st: move your index finger to Y, and use your thumb to use the c-stick for the aerial.

and yes I know this is 25 pages late, but for anyone concerned now I guess it's helpful

Pros: you can perform jump and almost instantly after perform the aerial.
Con: really hard to do at first if not practiced

2nd: Use your thumb to hit the jump button and inmediatly after the A button + left stick input.

Pros: Easy to do. Do aerial inmediatly after jump
Con: You lose aerial momentum cuz you are using the left stick to perform the aerial.

3rd: The third way I tried, and i've been using until now. You use your thumb to jump, and then move it to the c-stick and perform aerial. I find this way the worst, cuz you cant inmediatly perform an aerial after you jump (unless you can change your thumb from the Y/X button to the c-stick in an instant)

So what do you guys think about this? Which way do you hold the controller when trying to perform an aerial?

I actually set the shoulder button/z to jump. it's a bit foreign to get used to but it opens a lot of options for jumping into aerials and whatnot.

My current scheme is on a HORI battle pad but translates perfectly to a standard GC controller

Z/ZR/ZL are jump, L is grab, and R is shield. everything else is stock.

it's really nice cause it gives me full aerial momentum and I can act immediately out of jump

 

[Blue Banana]

I seem to have problems with dash attacks in general. I never get myself to shield it, my opponents feel like they always grab me when I do put it up because of conditioning, and I can't or don't react fast enough to punish them. I also have problems with dealing with disjointed or multi-hitting dash attacks like those of Ness and Peach. Any suggestions?

 

[I speak Spanish too]

I want to analyze my game play and break down every aspects of the match in order for me to improve. However, watching the screen and constantly pausing in and out is not only tedious but I feel like I'm simply uncomfortable analyzing my matches that way. I feel more comfortable watching the video on YouTube and then taking notes and breaking it down, but a capture card is so expensive. Does anybody have an alternative to analyzing your game play without having to upload it? Any help will be appreciated!

 

[Nate22Hill]

I dont know why but i do worse against lower level players then i do higher level players. It may be my punish/read game is a little weak, does anyone know a list of what to read or look for while playing a match. And if their is a list of what to read should you memorize it??

 

[Pyr]

I dont know why but i do worse against lower level players then i do higher level players. It may be my punish/read game is a little weak, does anyone know a list of what to read or look for while playing a match. And if their is a list of what to read should you memorize it??

You expect the lower level player to be able to do things they don't know how to do. Ex: Down Throw leads to an aerial. A good player will either Air-Dodge, Attack, DJ, etc... Any of the possible options to prevent the followup. A bad player with have the mentality somewhere along the lines of "they're coming at me. I should hit a button." Then they hit a button and you get hit, or they air dodge. Thing is, that's their solution in that situation. They are extremely unlikely to change their options because they have a game plan and they aren't changing it for anyone.

tl;dr: You respect a bad player like you do a good player, so you miss things or make mistakes.

Source: I had this problem for years before I figured out why it was a problem.

 

[Shaya]

Yeah it's really easy to respect "weaker" players the same amount as you do better players. What makes a better player towards higher levels is them knowing how to disrespect others or HARD punish habits. For this reason I advocate that the best verse player training involves weaker players, similar skilled players and better players in tandem. You get different skillsets and ideas from the diversity in skill and can develop things incrementally (chances of you successfully being able to get away with some "mix up" against better players ever is pretty slim, it needs to be developed in the lab one way or another). Don't ever shun the range of players you are able to fight against.

A lot of newer players in the scene will only ever go from an offensive to a defensive options (i.e. attack and spot dodge, or attack and roll, or attack and shield) and this is because of them relying on you not being proficient enough to beat that (it's the wifi habit of kings), even if it's a "newb" option, it isn't bad per se, just "good players" will rarely do such a thing and you have never had the proper opportunity to learn to combat it.

Earlier in the game's life time, people's muscle memory, reaction/anticipation skills and other things will not be as fine tuned as we see in Melee or in later years of Brawl. As much as Brawl apparently had no combos, good players would get large strings/punishes anyway and the "good player indicator" often actually came to be one where they would rather take the hit than try to dodge it.

You need to both know how to respect and disrespect opponents. If there's a single "repetitive" action you aren't noticing or dealing with, you need to figure out a way to crush people for it.

 

[Nate22Hill]

thanks for the advice you guys

 

[ぱみゅ]

Yeah it's really easy to respect "weaker" players the same amount as you do better players. What makes a better player towards higher levels is them knowing how to disrespect others or HARD punish habits. For this reason I advocate that the best verse player training involves weaker players, similar skilled players and better players in tandem. You get different skillsets and ideas from the diversity in skill and can develop things incrementally (chances of you successfully being able to get away with some "mix up" against better players ever is pretty slim, it needs to be developed in the lab one way or another). Don't ever shun the range of players you are able to fight against.

A lot of newer players in the scene will only ever go from an offensive to a defensive options (i.e. attack and spot dodge, or attack and roll, or attack and shield) and this is because of them relying on you not being proficient enough to beat that (it's the wifi habit of kings), even if it's a "newb" option, it isn't bad per se, just "good players" will rarely do such a thing and you have never had the proper opportunity to learn to combat it.

Earlier in the game's life time, people's muscle memory, reaction/anticipation skills and other things will not be as fine tuned as we see in Melee or in later years of Brawl. As much as Brawl apparently had no combos, good players would get large strings/punishes anyway and the "good player indicator" often actually came to be one where they would rather take the hit than try to dodge it.

You need to both know how to respect and disrespect opponents. If there's a single "repetitive" action you aren't noticing or dealing with, you need to figure out a way to crush people for it.

Y'know? I think watching top players' videos to learn is a bad idea.
I'd rather watch low or mid-level players to learn to detect patterns.

 

[2DDJ]

Hi guys, I'm having trouble dealing with spot dodges. My buddy and I were playing a few matches the other day (I was playing and he was playing ) and every time I tried to approach on the ground, he would spot dodge and punish. I tried to bait a spot dodge with empty hops and pivot attacks/pivot grabs, but he always seemed to know what I was up to and would either jab cancel, neutral air, or pk fire me. Does anybody have any advice on what I could do to consistenly punish these spot dodges?

 

[NickRiddle]

Throw out a move that would hit him right as the dodge ends.

 

[2DDJ]

Throw out a move that would hit him right as the dodge ends.

That's an idea, but which of fox's moves would stay out that long? Would his nair or dair do the trick? Thanks for the quick response, also.

 

[jset818]

I've been seeing a lot of pro players using the c-stick to do aerial attacks. Why is that? Is it more advantageous/faster to do it that way? Or is there something that I don't know about?

 

[NickRiddle]

That's an idea, but which of fox's moves would stay out that long? Would his nair or dair do the trick? Thanks for the quick response, also.

Nair or dair would both work, or you could always time another one of his moves. F-smash would probably be the easiest kill-move to learn.

I've been seeing a lot of pro players using the c-stick to do aerial attacks. Why is that? Is it more advantageous/faster to do it that way? Or is there something that I don't know about?

If you do a forward air while moving backwardw, you have to slow your character down in order to move your left thumb in the opposite direction. With the C-stick, you can keep your full momentum.

 

[2DDJ]

Nair or dair would both work, or you could always time another one of his moves. F-smash would probably be the easiest kill-move to learn.

Alright, I'll give that a go. Thanks again, mate.

 

[I speak Spanish too]

I want to analyze my game play and break down every aspects of the match in order for me to improve. However, watching the screen and constantly pausing in and out is not only tedious but I feel like I'm simply uncomfortable analyzing my matches that way. I feel more comfortable watching the video on YouTube and then taking notes and breaking it down, but a capture card is so expensive. Does anybody have an alternative to analyzing your game play without having to upload it? Any help will be appreciated!

 

[2DDJ]

I want to analyze my game play and break down every aspects of the match in order for me to improve. However, watching the screen and constantly pausing in and out is not only tedious but I feel like I'm simply uncomfortable analyzing my matches that way. I feel more comfortable watching the video on YouTube and then taking notes and breaking it down, but a capture card is so expensive. Does anybody have an alternative to analyzing your game play without having to upload it? Any help will be appreciated!

Why don't you save the match you played as a replay on your system and review the footage while taking notes on what you did right and wrong?

 

[Shaya]

I think the point was that the lack of rewinding / advancing / easy pausing when watching a replay on WiiU makes it tedious.

I would recommend watching it in full a few times first and just trying to memorize areas you want to take a further look at, then on another replay go from there.
There may be people kind enough to record replays for you with their devices, you may have luck in the multimedia section or in specific character boards if you have a local hero.

 

[busken]

If I recall correctly somebody said that you get 1 frame of invincibility if you auto-snap to the ledge above the ledge not below. They also provided video proof showcases palutena and falco I think. Well I this is true and I came across this video: https://vine.co/v/ea7QVUFHiPi

 

[TheAxeWarrior]

I want to analyze my game play and break down every aspects of the match in order for me to improve. However, watching the screen and constantly pausing in and out is not only tedious but I feel like I'm simply uncomfortable analyzing my matches that way. I feel more comfortable watching the video on YouTube and then taking notes and breaking it down, but a capture card is so expensive. Does anybody have an alternative to analyzing your game play without having to upload it? Any help will be appreciated!

Ha, I know how you feel.. Having a capture card would be SOO NICE!
But, until you can afford one, the only advice I have for you is to try your best to notice what you did wrong during the battle. Tell yourself, "okay, not doing that again," and then try not to repeat that mistake.