Future Charizard buffs that you want/nerfs that you fear

[RadianB]

Howdy Charizardfriends. Just dropping in from the Lucas boards to deliver a question to the people who know more about it, and this seems like just the thread to do it in.

In Lucas' reveal trailer, Charizard is show getting PK Fired during a Rock Smash. If I'm not mistaken, Charizard should have super armor at that point in Rock Smash, if any of you could back me up on that, it'd be great, since it means one of three things: I'm wrong about how Rock Smash works, Lucas' PK Fire can get through super armor, or Charizard is losing super armor on Rock Smash.

If the latter is the case I really hate to have possibly brought down the mood in this thread.

Nah the move hit just after the rock smashing animation finished, there's no super amour after that point.

 

[Turtlelly]

I actually want more power from flare blitz

 

[Son~]

1: Make Fair actually hit people who are on the ground and cut the landing lag in half.

You know you can short hop f air with no lag right?

 

[Bearbuddy4]

I was a zard main but I gave up on him. It was too much effort to win. That kind of constant effort was exhausting. Bowser feels like an upgraded version too me. I hope zard gets some buffs because I still like the character alot.

 

[-LzR-]

You know you can short hop f air with no lag right?

Yes, but if you want to autocancel you can't reliably hit people on the ground.

 

[Son~]

You're doing it wrong

 

[Steeler]

The auto cancel is so tight that you have to buffer it during jump squat. This means that you cannot vary the height of your fair if you want to land without the lag. At that height, some characters can get low enough to avoid it. It doesn't have the same range a Bowser fair has.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Buff Charizard IDK what though.

The auto cancel is so tight that you have to buffer it during jump squat. This means that you cannot vary the height of your fair if you want to land without the lag. At that height, some characters can get low enough to avoid it. It doesn't have the same range a Bowser fair has.

Holy **** Steeler your still around IDK if you remember me I do?

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Honestly, I'll be happy if

(You know what time it is... MORE LISTS!)

• We get more priority. Why do lightweights have more priority than a 200 pound dragon. why...
• Upthrow gets buffed. With the knockback it gives and the damage it does, you'd think it'd be better at setting up combos.
• Jab is more reliable on hit. Some characters can straight up jab you out of your jab... it's dumb >w>
• We get more Air speed. We're a flying type. Enough said
• Fair is easier to auto cancel. Or improve the range... or overall speed... or all of the above

I'm 99% certain all of that won't happen, but still...

One can hope.

 

[-LzR-]

The auto cancel is so tight that you have to buffer it during jump squat. This means that you cannot vary the height of your fair if you want to land without the lag. At that height, some characters can get low enough to avoid it. It doesn't have the same range a Bowser fair has.

Exactly. And that forces us to predictably Fair at the same timing every single time. This means our opponents can see that we didn't immediately buffer a Fair out of jump so it's safe to assume we aren't risking doing it with 20+ frames of landing lag for little reward.

 

[RadianB]

Nearly every replay I watch of Charizard in the replay channel he loses so hopefully this'll hint to Sakurai that he needs a buff. I just hope he doesn't look at my win record and think the opposite lol.

 

[Son~]

The auto cancel is so tight that you have to buffer it during jump squat. This means that you cannot vary the height of your fair if you want to land without the lag. At that height, some characters can get low enough to avoid it. It doesn't have the same range a Bowser fair has.

So you want sheik f air basically, we can cancel the lag low and high. Not to mention it's safe on shield if you pull back. so really there is no risk at all. I think that is plenty fair (heh).

 

[Steeler]

So you want sheik f air basically, we can cancel the lag low and high. Not to mention it's safe on shield if you pull back. so really there is no risk at all. I think that is plenty fair (heh).

Nope, I don't want Sheik fair. I want a big fkn aerial tail whip that autocancels on shorthops. Buff Zard Bair 2015

@ Gamegenie222 yeah dawg, I remember. Pretty much the last big PT main around these parts...

 

[Son~]

Nope, I don't want Sheik fair. I want a big fkn aerial tail whip that autocancels on shorthops. Buff Zard Bair 2015

@ Gamegenie222 yeah dawg, I remember. Pretty much the last big PT main around these parts...

I thought we were talking about f air here.. I can agree on b air

 

[Gamegenie222]

Nope, I don't want Sheik fair. I want a big fkn aerial tail whip that autocancels on shorthops. Buff Zard Bair 2015

@ Gamegenie222 yeah dawg, I remember. Pretty much the last big PT main around these parts...

PT mains were like shiny poke back then. I don't see Charizard much either. I would love to get games in with you sometime this week if possible cause decent to good charizards are hard to come by?

Also buff Up throw.

 

[Steeler]

PT mains were like shiny poke back then. I don't see Charizard much either. I would love to get games in with you sometime this week if possible cause decent to good charizards are hard to come by?

Also buff Up throw.

Sure dawg. You are in NE, you should bring a crew to a Wichita tourney sometime. Every 3rd Saturday of the month, great turnout and great venue.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Sure dawg. You are in NE, you should bring a crew to a Wichita tourney sometime. Every 3rd Saturday of the month, great turnout and great venue.

Yeah I'm in NE. Sometime in the future and if I can convince nerds then yeah but otherwise we in the middle of an midwest circle right now that some of us is traveling for that and EVO. I'm job hunting so I can't do much but local stuff till the meantime.

You play online alot or nah?

 

[Swoops]

I don't think he really needs much, especially if they tweak some other characters.

1) Improve air speed. This will help with his follow up issues. Will probably even make UThrow viable as a set up move.

2) Jabs need to be more consistent, particularly jab1. If you look at the frame data, jab1 has two different hitboxes, and jab2 has three! I'm not sure what they were fixing with that, but there has to be a more elegant way to do it while making sure charizard has a threatening up close game. Less recovery on jab2 and only one consistent hitbox for jab1 maybe?

3) Give DTilt a little something extra. At first I was all aboard the DTilt train because of the tech chases it sets up, but then I realized how tough it is to implement in neutral due to his vulnerability. I think it needs a speed increase overall.

After those...I think everything else is icing on the cake he doesn't necessarily need. More lenient FAir auto cancel and a FThrow that has recovery similar to BThrow would be cool.

 

[Steeler]

Yeah I'm in NE. Sometime in the future and if I can convince nerds then yeah but otherwise we in the middle of an midwest circle right now that some of us is traveling for that and EVO. I'm job hunting so I can't do much but local stuff till the meantime.

You play online alot or nah?

Most of the online I do is double Ganon with my roommate. It's incredible. We are going to the circuit event in KC (championships?) so that'll be cool.

Dtilt is weird, he lunges so far that I have lunged past people right in front of me.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Most of the online I do is double Ganon with my roommate. It's incredible. We are going to the circuit event in KC (championships?) so that'll be cool.

Dtilt is weird, he lunges so far that I have lunged past people right in front of me.

Man cool then If I get money before then I'll try to show up.

Otherwise you wanna try to get online games this week?

 

[Steeler]

Sure, probably tomorrow. NNID Steeler.

 

[Gamegenie222]

Cool my NNID is in my Profile.

Also buff Charizard 2015.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

What have the most popular and used characters in Sm4sh that Charizard doesnt? Options out of Dthrow.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

I'd like to see

1. MUCH better aerial mobility (in my opinion his major downfall).
2. Slightly further range on F-air
3. Stronger F-tilt (with and without tipper)
3. Less landing lag on aerials
4. More horizontal knockback on D-tilt
5. Higher second and third jumps
6. Stronger D-Smash

For some reason I'm not very confident that Charizard will receive any well needed buffs... a part of me hope does. Mewtwo's already looking to be a huge threat to poor Zard.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

What have the most popular and used characters in Sm4sh that Charizard doesnt? Options out of Dthrow.

For a lot of characters, Dthrow is for combos and Bthrow is a kill move.

For Char it's the other way around

 

[ZephyrZ]

What have the most popular and used characters in Sm4sh that Charizard doesnt? Options out of Dthrow.

D-throw is too valuable as a kill move. I don't think it should be changed, unless they decide to give it more KB, not less.

If we need a combo move, it needs to be U-throw that gets changed.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

I just searched Smash 4 tier list in google and this was the first result i got

http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/

So there's a fairly large group of people who think we're the worst character in the game.

This might mean good news for us in the upcoming balance patch.

Zard could get some crazy buffs.




We will become the new Rosalina

Lord Helix has prophesy'd it so



In all seriousness. Charizard buffs are looking like a real possibility.

 

[RadianB]

Don't get your hopes up Xiroey, it's most likely that Charizard will remain unchanged so you might be setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[-LzR-]

I have very little faith in their ability to make a proper balance patch. I'd prefer if they left the game alone, we still don't have a stable metagame and it's constantly being disrupted by these patches.

 

[Steeler]

Actually i think we have quite a few characters that have pretty stable metas. The easy and super rewarding characters should be nerfed. On that note there are also a lot of decent characters that don't really need help but are very underplayed. It is way more important to nerf the strong ones than buff anyone else. So you are right, we are lucky if we get a buff but we have as good a shot as anyone due to public perception. How could the patch team not be aware of dthrow uair diddy? Surely the current meta will affect their decisions to some degree. They do have FG winrates to look at too, but Mac had by far the worst win rate and still got nerfed. I don't think online will play as big a role in their decisions as expected.

 

[Marrow]

Do we ... do we really suck that much? ;-; I know we aren't Diddy levels of good or anything, but I swear we're not bottom-of-the-barrel trash.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Do we ... do we really suck that much? ;-; I know we aren't Diddy levels of good or anything, but I swear we're not bottom-of-the-barrel trash.

I think unfortunately, for the amount of effort one has to put into Charizard, there's plenty of other characters that will give you better results for the same amount of effort.

At least that's my opinion. It does show too. To be honest, when I play FG, Zard is one of the easiest fights for me when I use my main. Sad but true.

 

[Xuan Wu]

Recently I have picked up Zard as a secondary. He is definitely fun to play as. Admittedly, however, I do feel noticeably handicapped whenever I use him in FG, compared to my main. At least it is satisfying to score victories with him.

If you are to rank all the heavy characters in the current meta from best to worst, where would Charizard stand? ^-^

 

[Davregis]

tbh I've always felt that Charizard just plain makes up for his deficiencies by having so many more options and such quick moves. Whenever I play someone like Ganondorf, which is often, I am always struck by his slow moves, inability to approach, and "PLEASE COMBO ME" everything.

stick him with DeDeDe at the top

 

[RadianB]

He's at the bottom because people don't know how to use him properly and he's underused so a good one is hard to come by.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

At the end of the day, use Zard because you love Zard. Realistically, he's underwhelming compared to most characters. Don't sulk because he's rated horribly though because a lot of that is due to the extremely low amount of people that use him. But that doesn't mean you can't win with him. Personally, I do very well with him (not nearly as well as I would with Link but still). Develop your game with Zard and you'll get results.

 

[Steeler]

idk, it's kind of depressing lately because I have a sneaky good ROB that I never use because my roommate mains ROB and is very good... and whenever I play ROB it's like... yeah... this is way easier... today I went toe to toe last stocks high percent with a Pikachu as Zard, then switched to ROB and two stocked it :| it's not that Zard is bad, just requires a lot of work because he doesn't have easy mode KOs out of grab unless you dthrow near the blast zone... and all the top tiers are top because they have oppressively good neutral vs Charizard while still having reliable KO power

BUT THIS PATCH DOE

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Don't get your hopes up Xiroey, it's most likely that Charizard will remain unchanged so you might be setting yourself up for disappointment.

I honestly wouldn't mind that at all.

If charizard did get hardcore buffed, he'd end up breaking heavyweights.
I'm simply pointing out that, given the public's opinion about char, it's likely that, if anyone is going to receive buffs, it's him.

 

[ggamer77]

People in general just like using easy characters.

 

[-LzR-]

Nah, it's more like people like winning.