Future Charizard buffs that you want/nerfs that you fear

[ggamer77]

Well yes, to win.

 

[Davregis]

Nah, it's more like people like winning.

people don't use character just because they're easy, and nobody would really say the Melee tops are easy-- LzR is totally right

 

[ZephyrZ]

Most people love characters who are easy to win with.
That's why you see so many Captain Falcons on For Glory then you do Rosalinas, Sheiks and Pikachus; all three characters have a ton of potential, but Captain Falcon's is the easiest one of them to get a hang of.

That said, this doesn't really represent high level play, where you do see a lot of Rosalinas and Sheiks. I guess it kind of depends on which group you're dealing with.

 

[SkyboundTerror]

I'm sure if Charizard got a bow as an alternate costume, he, or should I say she in this case, would rise up to at least A-tier. Playing as a naked female dragon sounds far more appealing, thus Charizard would rise in usage.

 

[90007000]

Charizard is at the bottom of the tier list. I don't think there's gonna be much change.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Charizard is at the bottom of the tier list. I don't think there's gonna be much change.

Is there even an official tier list out yet? Even then, you'd be surprised how much a tier list can move around over the course of a metagame.

I kind of expect that he'll work his way up to low-mid tier eventually.

 

[Davregis]

Is there even an official tier list out yet? Even then, you'd be surprised how much a tier list can move around over the course of a metagame.

I kind of expect that he'll work his way up to low-mid tier eventually.

Melee's list didn't change much, but I doubt the Back Roomers will put Charizard where he is now

 

[90007000]

Is there even an official tier list out yet? Even then, you'd be surprised how much a tier list can move around over the course of a metagame.

I kind of expect that he'll work his way up to low-mid tier eventually.

The official tier list is at eventhubs... isnt it?

 

[Steeler]

Lol no, anyone can vote for that. It's a popularity list

 

[90007000]

Lol no, anyone can vote for that. It's a popularity list

ok...

 

[RadianB]

I wish Charizard would get a Mega Evolution meter like Little Mac's KO meter where he can Mega Evolve after a certain amount of time for a certain amount of time. I just wanna play as the Mega Evolutions. T_T Might have to hold out for Pokken on that one if he's in it.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I wish Charizard would get a Mega Evolution meter like Little Mac's KO meter where he can Mega Evolve after a certain amount of time for a certain amount of time. I just wanna play as the Mega Evolutions. T_T Might have to hold out for Pokken on that one if he's in it.

The reason Little Mac's KO meter isn't broken is because it's so hard to land.

If Charizard could change into it's Mega Y form for a single, powerful, difficult attack to land like Mac's KO punch, I could see it working out alright.

 

[C3CC]

BRING GLIDING BACK!!!!

 

[ZephyrZ]

BRING GLIDING BACK!!!!

I don't think they'll reintroduce an entire new mechanic, especially when Zard already has fantastic horizontal recovery.

 

[A_Phoenix_Down]

Now if only he had fantastic aerial mobility

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Is there even an official tier list out yet? Even then, you'd be surprised how much a tier list can move around over the course of a metagame.

I kind of expect that he'll work his way up to low-mid tier eventually.

Hey, someone who agrees! :D

I'm sure if Charizard got a bow as an alternate costume, he, or should I say she in this case, would rise up to at least A-tier. Playing as a naked female dragon sounds far more appealing, thus Charizard would rise in usage.

She wouldn't be able to compete with ZSS and Rosalina.

Besides, I'm pretty sure dragons represent a minority in Smash's playerbase.

 

[Steeler]

Fun fact: uair is only 1-3 frames away from being able to autocancel from a short hop

not that exciting considering we have utilt/usmash/nair but still it would be cool as hell and a very strong air dodge frame trap into a utilt/usmash since it's got invulnerability along the head and neck

 

[-LzR-]

Fun fact: uair is only 1-3 frames away from being able to autocancel from a short hop

I was having a decently good morning, but now it's ruined. Rip uair.

 

[Steeler]

I was having a decently good morning, but now it's ruined. Rip uair.

DAT PATCH DOE
seriously, it would fit with the thematic idea zard has - keep em in the air and let your big huge attacks keep fkn em up

 

[-LzR-]

DAT PATCH DOE
seriously, it would fit with the thematic idea zard has - keep em in the air and let your big huge attacks keep fkn em up

Yeah. It's not like a simple autocancel would make the character overpowered. SH Uair autocancel and Usmash not connecting behind and I think that's all I ever need.

 

[Ryusuta]

I would kind of like it if Fireball Cannon didn't require you to commit to three blasts. Naturally I love the move regardless, but it would be better if it wasn't such a hefty commitment. Or maybe just increase the damage a tad - maybe 1-2%.

 

[RadianB]

I guess the devs must have thought single Fireball Cannon shots were too powerful, they're really not tbh considering Charizard's lack of approach options.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Come to think of it, of the 2,000-some For Glory Matches I've played... I can probably count the number of Charizard I've met on one hand.

Sakurai might not have much data to go off of, at least as far as Online goes.

 

[RadianB]

Come to think of it, of the 2,000-some For Glory Matches I've played... I can probably count the number of Charizard I've met on one hand.

Sakurai might not have much data to go off of, at least as far as Online goes.

That can also be a bad thing considering there's such a small amount of people playing him it's likely that the people who do main him are a little more dedicated than normal so are likely to be better than most casual players and therefore have a higher win rate than normal.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

That can also be a bad thing considering there's such a small amount of people playing him it's likely that the people who do main him are a little more dedicated than normal so are likely to be better than most casual players and therefore have a higher win rate than normal.

I guess we can just hope that Nintendo's Statisticians come to the same conclusion

 

[ZephyrZ]

That can also be a bad thing considering there's such a small amount of people playing him it's likely that the people who do main him are a little more dedicated than normal so are likely to be better than most casual players and therefore have a higher win rate than normal.

I have only faced two Charizards before on For Glory in my life.

One of them just spammed Flare Blitz.
The other was pretty decent, but certainly not the most difficult battle I've had.

I guess two people can't speak for the vast majority of Zards out there, but I have a feeling not all Zard mains are all that great.

 

[ggamer77]

I've met maybe 4 in all my time on for glory. Not many other dragons out there.

 

[Steeler]

I think a great buff would be to speed up fastfall speed. Improves Zard's juggles and helps him get out of them. It just makes more sense than tiny characters like Pikachu being able to fall faster than a 200 pound dragon. Sure, I'll buy the argument that normally Zard falls slowly because he has wings or is aerodynamic or some **** (and it's a good thing or else Zard short hop game would be ****) but if a goddamn dragon wants to perch back on the ground, he should be able to do it quickly.

Unfortunately, I believe Sakurai is very against manipulating innate stats of characters because it's even more obscure yet game changing than changing the percent damage on a move.

Too bad we can't angle Dragon Rush.

 

[Braydon]

What I'd like to see is:
Higher air speed
Much higher priority on Fair and a 1-2% damage increase, I can't understand why the priority is so low on this attack.
Flare blitz cancels most projectiles on collision
Slightly increase hitbox on fly

 

[PokéMurio]

Yeah, Charizard needs buffs.
Flare Blitz definitely needs to be better: more shield damage, no recoil when it doesn't hit (like in Pokemon) and bit more killing power.
Charizard's overall speed should be higher and his attacks have less lag. It wouldn't even matter if they weakened Charizard a bit, if it means he would get faster and therefore actually useful.

 

[Braydon]

Yeah, Charizard needs buffs.
Flare Blitz definitely needs to be better: more shield damage, no recoil when it doesn't hit (like in Pokemon) and bit more killing power.
Charizard's overall speed should be higher and his attacks have less lag. It wouldn't even matter if they weakened Charizard a bit, if it means he would get faster and therefore actually useful.

Charizard's actually not that slow, the main issue is that he has so low priority you have to attack well before your enemy or they'll just go straight through you. Especially his Fair will be overrode by basically any other arial.

Also his damage and kill power are pretty lack luster for a heavy.

Actually in addition to what I said earlier I think it would be nice if one of his grabs could kill around the 100-120% range, maybe back grab, just to give him another kill option. And of course I forgot to mention less endlag on flare blitz.

 

[-LzR-]

He doesn't need to kill any earlier. But Flare Blitz needs a buff so it might be more useful than Dragon Rush in more than 2 matchups.

 

[RadianB]

Flare Blitz does need a buff, it shouldn't clash with weak projectiles and it should do more knockback and push shielding opponents further away. It's pretty dumb how most character can punish this move with a smash attack after the recoil.

 

[Braydon]

Flare Blitz does need a buff, it shouldn't clash with weak projectiles and it should do more knockback and push shielding opponents further away. It's pretty dumb how most character can punish this move with a smash attack after the recoil.

Honestly I wouldn't fix that with knockback I'd just vastly decrease the end frames so you regain control much sooner.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Buffs:

• Flamethrower has less startup lag
• Flare Blitz is less easily punishable
• A slight speed increase to make it easier to approach
• Mega Charizard can shoot in all eight directions, and it's Side-B should be faster.

And he really doesn't need any nerfs; I mean, when you're already considered a mediocre or even bad character, you really do need more buffs than nerfs.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I merged the two threads together to prevent duplicate threads.

But overall, I got thoughts on zard, he doesn't need that much imo.

 

[SkyboundTerror]

Okay, let me just say that my first post in this thread was in jest.

As a player who lands the move often, I don't agree with Flare Blitz needing a buff. It's already an insane KO move, and it takes a marginal amount of skill to land the hit on a even more skilled opponent.

From what I'm reading here, everyone wants it to be "easier," but do we really want that? Do we really want Flare Blitz to break shields, tear through every projectile, and be unpunishable? It can already tank through most attacks and puts players in a position where they will fear every move you make. Do we really want Charizard to have an easy button against every match-up?

I'm all for buffs for the 'zard, but easy buttons? ... No.

If you don't like Flare Blitz, use Dragon Rush. Buffing Flare Blitz to kill earlier and absorb every projectile would be unfair to other characters. It is a do-or-die wild card in its current state, and it should stay as is.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Dragon doesn't have the KO power or damage with as strong super armor, don't quote me on that last one, but it has fast more safety on block.

Just make his Uthrow better, more tilts like Dtilt and he'll be more solid.

Maybe more range to his nair but eh, I'd rather he not get a PM 3.02 nair.

 

[Braydon]

Can we all just agree on a few things he needs? It seems we would be more likely to get the buffs we want if we did. Like take a look at diddy's "Hoo haa" combo, there's even a special name for what people want a nerf on, almost everyone agrees and I can't imagine nintendo hasn't heard something about it.

Now take a look at Charizard, there's just a general buzz that he's sort of underpowered but no one agrees on why and there are a bunch of contradictory opinions on what he needs. I think Nintendo is far more likely to notice if everyone is saying the same thing about him.



Anyway TL;DR we should try to agree on a consensus on how he needs to be buffed rather than everyone walking in blurting whatever pops into mind and then leaving.

So the way it seems to me, charizard isn't kept back by any major problem, but rather a vast amount of small problems, but most important would be low air speed, low damage for a heavy, and few kill options for a heavy.

There seems to be a lot of people who think flare blitz is good, but it's got huge risk and not that good reward, the kill power is really not that good, it kills around 100-110%.

Anyway my changes would be,

• Improve air speed
• Increase height of second and third jump slightly
• Increase shield damage on rock smash
• Increase shield damage on flare blitz a lot, should break shields in 2 hits so it can't just be tanked like crazy
  
• Increase priority on Fair vastly so it isn't overpowered by so many other arials
  
• Have the hitbox on Fair reach lower, currently it only goes sideways and up, leaving him unable to hit diagonally down.
• Slightly increase fly hitbox, it's to easy for it to whiff instead of chaining hits now if you hit with the side.
• Remove sourspot on Fsmash, it's already weak compared to other heavies' Fsmashes so it doesn't need a sourspot on the tip
• Increase flare blitz knockback to kill around 90%

 

[-LzR-]

There seems to be a lot of people who think flare blitz is good, but it's got huge risk and not that good reward, the kill power is really not that good, it kills around 100-110%.

This. Compared to all the trouble you have to go through in order to actually land this without getting killed in the process the move is one of the weakest in the game.