I'd like to know a stage that is banned more often than FD against Diddy Kong. 
You don't need to cover an entire stage to have a severe advantage on it. FD makes his banana game (and camping game) overall better and harder to get past.
Have you tried to get a Falco to time you out on this stage? Start of match pew pew, start camping. Oh. You're coming close? I'll just IAP to the other side of the stage, after a SHDL for cover. (Making it sound easier than it really is.. but it's not even that hard)
This stage is pretty bad for Wario (no platforms to save him from the grab release ****)
It doesn't have to be stupidly good for a character. It can be stupidly bad for others as well.
The point is that it's not a "neutral" stage.
The size is a factor, Diddy can't control the whole stage. It's still a good stage for him, but it's not a hard core CP for him.
Falco can't run away on the stage forever, many characters just need to play a guessing game of when he is going to try and cross and catch him on the cross. If he could run away from them all day on FD I don't see how he couldn't do it on other stages well that aren't "Dynamic" like Brinstar.
Also many people don't main this against Falco like people used to, just looking at Junebug vs DEHF and how he performed shows me this.
Wario is bad here cause he loves platforms...that's his specific character trait and his problem for having a crappy air release. Same with Ness and Lucas, I can take them to FD or Yoshi's to grab release them with Lucario across the stage and end with a Dthrow/Frthow/Force Palm.
Wario doesn't like stages with no platforms or limited platforms, that's his problem. Some characters do bad on Lylat or Cruise, that is their problem.
Should we not have Yoshi's be a CP because King DDD ***** Wario here? Or Sonic can abuse invincibility, or Lucario can make lots of love here?
Oh? And what are we "depending" on?
What the stage list is listed as if we're not doing full out stage striking with 20+ stages.
He said legal, not starter. Go back and take that in context.
My fault.
You're only looking at a grain of sand in the whole beach.
The problem is not getting grabbed, is that you're forced to approach them (hence, taking the risk of getting grabbed) all the time because there's nothing else to do.
Or I could just not approach them.
If Diddy approaches with Banana's then he's not camping me, PS Falco's lasers and don't mess up the spacing between you and him so he gets to abuse frame advantage. I can run away from King DDD, lol.
Again IC's are the only character I can see this stage being, lol2gud, for.
Thinking on FD...
You right, we should let characters that perform well in the ground use this as a starter...wait...
If they dominated here sure, if not like they don't, then too bad.
I hope that was not sarcasm....
No sarcasm intended, PS2 is legit.
<3
@RR: Yeah, they lose on FD because they are bad, limited characters with lousy counterpicks. Ganon/G&W/etc. doesn't always win on
his best counterpicks, doesn't mean we can, or should give them to him game one anyways. Again, the
degree or
power of a counterpick becomes completely meaningless, at least for this discussion, when you try to compare it across characters. That the stage is not polar because "everyone who counterpicks it doesn't get a huge advantage from it" is ridiculous when you consider the kind of advantage they'd be getting from any other stage, comparatively.
THAT is the comparison which accurately reflects the advantage they get from the stage, because it factors in their overall ability, as a character, to deal with stages.
Furthermore, I don't know how you can argue that FD is not ridiculously polar. Going down the tier list, I can find maybe 2-3 chars I know anything about (i.e. to around D tier) where FD isn't either a godlike stage in most matchups, an awful stage in most matchups, or an awful or a godlike stage, depending on matchup. That's
RIDICULOUSLY polar.
And referring to the number of starters, ideally it won't matter which stages you present because sooner or later you run out of legal stages to add, at which point it balances itself out automatically. It's clear that Norfair/RC/Brinstar/PTAD/GG/FD/BF is worse than FD/BF/SV/YI/PS1, but that's because we added exactly the wrong stages to it too early. If you add stages intelligently, you WILL NOT get a system where it is more polarizing than the current 5-starter list. You literally only can do that if you add
exactly the wrong stages. Or, if you're complaining about things like the 15-stage starter list, you should actually try striking it down for a heavily polarized matchup like ICs-MK.
And regarding RC, I only advocate it as a starter when you have like 15+ starter stages. i.e. it's a horrible starter, even worse than FD.
Sonic and Lucario do amazingly well on Yoshi's Island, should we remove it because on the current 5 stage list it is their best starter and they can go there?
And the power or degree of the CP is quite relevant. If the stage really isn't stupidly good for them, why make it CP. If the stage is literally stupid good, Norfair says high for MK, Link, Wario, etc.
FD doesn't give characters stupid good advantages unless they already had it. Ganon vs Icies...even with platforms it's a 8:2.
Link vs Falco, being on FD doesn't change the fact Link can't catch him well and he loses a lot of his projectiles usefulness which is one of his few saving graces. Even if he went to BF, PS1, PS@, this wouldn't change a thing.
FD doesn't completely change a MU around, ICies being the only case I can reasonably see also Wario vs DDD doesn't count seeing as that MU is extremely stage dependent.
FD is good for a few characters and is useful in some MU's for some characters, in some cases MU's can turn around, again Wario vs DDD here, it's not the end be all ban this stage I don't wanna get CP'd here stage.
What stages you present matters, because I highly doubt people want to fluff up like DMG said a stage list when a stage gets striken anyways. Why waste time going through the process when we can just remove it from the starter list to save time.
:leek:
