Fthrow/Dthrow Chaingrab Thread

[KuroKitt10]

Thanks for updating, Tag.



Kitt, the CGs may go under some semi-frequent changes and additions as more testing is done..... if you can keep up with that, that's fine, but it may end up being confusing if the chart says one thing and the post says another.

Just something to keep in mind.

I understand. I have no problem keeping any graphical chart I work on updated. So long as any changes are made clear to me, I can update the visual ASAP. Infact, I could update it on a daily basis, if need be.

Dthrow should never be that diminished on a fresh stock. It can happen, but it shouldn't. I don't want to clutter the list with situational cgs. Also, I know I'm right about the cgs you listed. Our results are different because you're doing something wrong.

The only things that should be listed are these:

Wario
(7-9) - (26-28)
Dthrow x 2 + regrab
Can escape with footstool

0 - 19
Fthrow x 2 + regrab

Pikachu
0 - 27
Dthrow x 3 + regrab
Can escape with footstool

I completely disagree. I think it's important to list different situational chain grabs. For those of you who test these grabs and view them in all their detail, it's second nature how this stuff works; however, for others, and for new pikas, we don't have this insight. I think displaying the main chaingrabs firstmost, then below that having a "situational" section for these other types would be highly benificial.

That said, I also think we need a good guide on how to preform these chaingrabs and the mechanics behind them. Truth be told, I wouldn't mind sitting in front of my console testing all sorts of obscure chaingrabs and working on a concise technical guide about chaingrabs - assuming of course this is something the boards would actually like. I don't want to waste my time with that if it's not gonna be posted anywhere.

Meow.

Edit:

FIne, i guess i was wrong. However, lets say you grab a falco on halberd and CG him to death. Now you have a 7 diminished D-throw. Now you can F-throw 4 times so it is only 3 times diminished and then you might be able to do another one.

Just saw this. ESAM is entirely right - this is precisely what I'm talking about. Proper organization and good design sense will allow you to display any amount of information and have it look clean and uncluttered. Just look at Kaylo's guide - there's a ton of information there, but it's presented in a way that makes it easy to find and read, without being confusing or cluttered.

I really don't think there's any good reason to not have information like this in a nice guide for people to read. All it does is limit peoples knowledge of things, making it harder for them to find tricks for hard situations.

Like I said, I'm willing to work on clean informative display for these grabs. I also need to talk to Kaylo, or ESAM, or any of you who know how to set up a Wii for testing so that I can help contribute to these numbers as well. More heads is always better than fewer =)

 

[Pikabunz]

But some of the cgs ESAM post are pretty much the same and/or useless. Like he posted two cgs for Wario. One starts with ground jolt and the other starts with an aerial jolt. They are both practically the same. There are better ways to list these things in a much neater way. If we list all these different weird cgs separately it's going to confuse people. I really wish I had control of this thread.

 

[KuroKitt10]

But some of the cgs ESAM post are pretty much the same and/or useless. Like he posted two cgs for Wario. One starts with ground jolt and the other starts with an aerial jolt. They are both practically the same. There are better ways to list these things in a much neater way. If we list all these different weird cgs separately it's going to confuse people. I really wish I had control of this thread.

I do agree with this though.

Personally, I don't like the idea of listing an opening move at all. Instead, a percentage should be listed. TJolt isn't even consistent in it's damage, so how can we be sure a TJolt will lead into the chain grab?

I agree that this method is unweildy and cluttered. I was mostly just trying to say that we shouldn't adopt an attitude of only displaying the "important" chain grabs. It's good to provide many other options.

Edit: Just to clarify, I think that listing which moves you lead into a chain grab is plain dumb - I think we should list chaingrabs based on percentages, pummels, and throws, and nothing else. I just think that it's useful to display other starting percentages/throw patterns rather than limiting ourselves to a single grab option - because, honestly, how often does a decent Falco let you grab him at 0% before you've used any of your throws?

 

[The Truth!]

Some of them are very practical though. While I agree that the technical information is the most important and probably enough for pika experts, for your average pika user its useful to know how to get to that percent. I agree that they need to be done in a neat way and the current format doesnt allow that, which is why I said Im working on a new way so itll probably be a decent amount of change. I dont think ESAM was trying to format the info, he was just giving out the information. Ill figure out how to condense stuff, etc. Let me finish up a first draft though then we can start debating the formatting pluses and minuses of something tangible. Right now Im more concerned about having the correct information.

There should be a way to do this thatll make everyone happy. Lets work towards that.

 

[BleachigoZX]

im sorry this isnt bleachigo but can someone give a picture of how fame 38 looks like. and does that mean the window is open from frame 38 to frame 49 or from frame 27 to frame 38. im sorry if im wrong i read or think i read that theres a 11 frame window to buffer grab. thanks.

 

[Pikabunz]

Still not updated yet? Come on, Tag, hurry it up!

 

[The Truth!]

I already have your stuff. Im just talking to ESAM about his and trying to incorporate it in a way no one gets upset.

 

[KayLo!]

I already have your stuff. Im just talking to ESAM about his and trying to incorporate it in a way no one gets upset.

Then at least update Prime's stuff and worry about ESAM's after you're done talking to him. Besides, as long as the information posted is accurate, I don't see why anybody should be getting upset.

 

[Xi_Athletics_ix]

I'm not sure if this is known or not(or if this is true), but when you cg Captian Falcon you don't have to do the 2 FThrows. My friend plays CF in friendlies and i've never done an FThrow against him. Skipping right to the DThrows works fine. From about 0 - 107 you can Dthrow him.

 

[KayLo!]

I'm not sure if this is known or not(or if this is true), but when you cg Captian Falcon you don't have to do the 2 FThrows. My friend plays CF in friendlies and i've never done an FThrow against him. Skipping right to the DThrows works fine. From about 0 - 107 you can Dthrow him.

Dthrow works, but iirc, he can footstool out of the dthrow CG. Also, it definitely doesn't work until 100%.... your friend just doesn't know how to get out of it.

 

[Piman34]

wway to put him in his place kay lo!!

 

[BleachigoZX]

no frame pix **** how dew u guys get to look at frames accuratly i'll do it my self

 

[TLMSheikant]

Hmm, ive tried and tried to buffer CG rated's DDD again and again and it always seems like he can footstool out of dthrow :/ after the 2 fthrows :/.

 

[KayLo!]

This is why someone *coughtagcough* should post exactly when the CGs are escapable so people can know whether they're doing it right or not.

 

[gallax]

wario can escape like every throw. ive not once been able to catch him in a cg.

and the fthrow cg on MK doesn't work either. ive tried and tried and tired but seriously, it just doesn't work. and yes i buffer it. i know the specifics but i can never pull it off. same with the dthrow cg.

 

[BleachigoZX]

not even at low percents. bcuz i can do it sometimes im still extremly rusty.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

The MK down throw isn't actually right...you can't CG him with down from 10, idk why he put that. You CAN catch him in the F-throw regrab at 0. You just have to run for 2 frames before grabbing...which is REALLY hard considering we don't have AR vision.

I'll try and test the MK and D3 CG later.

 

[Pikabunz]

MK can only escape after the first dthrow, every other dthrow after that in inescapable. The DDD cg works, but you have to start at 0% and your fthrow, pummel, and dthrow have to be fresh. Also, make sure you do the pummel after the two fthrows.

 

[The Truth!]

The MK down throw isn't actually right...you can't CG him with down from 10, idk why he put that. You CAN catch him in the F-throw regrab at 0. You just have to run for 2 frames before grabbing...which is REALLY hard considering we don't have AR vision.

I'll try and test the MK and D3 CG later.

Read the OP. I included escapable chaingrabs and differentiated them from chaingrabs that work.

 

[Pikabunz]

Could you maybe use a different color? It's hard to tell between the white and grey.

 

[gallax]

so then you have to start the dthrow at ~20% fresh with DDD?

 

[Pikabunz]

I think it's 21%. But you have to fthrow x2 > pummel at 0% for the dthrows to work. If you reach 21% any other way it might not work as well. Same goes for the Snake cg.

 

[gallax]

that's one pummel? just making sure cuz im making mental notes.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I think it's 21%. But you have to fthrow x2 > pummel at 0% for the dthrows to work. If you reach 21% any other way it might not work as well. Same goes for the Snake cg.

For all those who don't understand, this is because there are decimals of percents. So 2 f-throws and a pummel might be 21.4% while other combinations could be 21.9% giving DDD opportunity to fall out.

 

[Tiersie]

Another question. Is it really essentail to not pummel before Dthrowing when it's not listed? I guess it is eh.

Also, how do you fthrow someone 11 times? I tried pivotting but it hasn't worked yet.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Another question. Is it really essentail to not pummel before Dthrowing when it's not listed? I guess it is eh.

Also, how do you fthrow someone 11 times? I tried pivotting but it hasn't worked yet.

The chaingrab can't be completed on one length of any stage. He was just listing it so you know when you can Chaingrab him.

 

[Pikabunz]

You can do it on the Bridge, but that's banned. Lol.

 

[Piman34]

yeah, change the text color, its almost impossible to tell there are two colors...in fact, i didnt know there were until someone mentioned it =/

 

[KayLo!]

yeah, change the text color, its almost impossible to tell there are two colors...in fact, i didnt know there were until someone mentioned it =/

cosigning this.... ten times over.

 

[Pikabunz]

Tag, obviously made it like that on purpose.

 

[KayLo!]

well, he's gonna be real upset when the OP mysteriously gets edited tomorrow morning. =X

 

[Razek]

idk if these have been posted but if sheik does escape the chain throw if you just regrab her shes stuck till like 90ish. Also charizard is stuck in the chain grab down throw to 80%. Again not sure if they have been posted but im not gonna 50 + pages to find it

 

[Pikabunz]

I just noticed that Charizard isn't even on the OP.

 

[Inferno3044]

hey. I was looking at this and I have 2 questions:

1. it says there is a CG on Charizard, but what's the combination?
2. are there any more characters any CG can be done on?

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

:flame:
I'm just getting past my scrubby notion of "CHAIN GRABS ARE EVIL AND BAD FOR THE GAME", and I've become more accepting of them. As such, seeing that, by using Pikachu, I can Chain **** and eliminate the only 3 characters that ever give me trouble in Brawl (King Add, Nazi-O, and SpaceFurry#3) makes me want to use him as a secondary to my Lucario.

But, how would I go about "buffering"? Just doing down grab before it would work (as in while the other grab is already in progress)? That sounds simple, but is probably really hard. Also, is there anyone specifically who would give this move (and Pikachu in General) trouble?
:flame:

 

[Stealth Raptor]

when you dthrow, you slam them on the ground. righ tafter that tap grab.

watch out for marth, G&W, mk, diddy, and a couple others, though pika does better vs mk then most chars

 

[KayLo!]

It's all yours now, Prime. Should be easier to keep the OP updated now.

Lemme know when you fix the CGs listed so I can update them in the Generating A Win guide.

Also: some people mentioned that the grey color is kind of hard to differentiate from the white, which I agree with, so maybe you can find another color instead of light grey? And make it a little clearer what the grey color actually means.

EDIT: I'd also make the link to the video a little more obvious. I JUST realized it was there.

 

[KayLo!]

Updated OP bump.

IIRC, Prime said it's not completely updated, but some of the CGs that didn't work were taken down. Figured people might wanna take a look and make sure they're doing them right.

 

[altairian]

Ahh it looks a lot nicer now. Hopefully Prime is working on the "combo" grabs, like Falco/Wolf/Snake's cg's from 0% cause those are the ones that I have a hard time remembering ><

 

[infernapeboy]

im having a hard time using a wii mote