Social "Friends being fought for!" Ike General Discussion

[LousyTactician]

Ragnell still out-ranges Buster Sword, mostly because Cloud likes to use the back side of the blade for ?????? reasons and his hitboxes are rather wonky as they don't linger, they are instant.

Kind of reminds me of Kliff from Guilty Gear. The dude has a huge sword, but his actual normals don't really utilize the range.

 

[Trueblade]

Speaking of which though, was having Cloud demonstrate his Omnislash on a Black Knight Ike a reference to something? Knowing the final boss of FF7, I expected it to be Fierce Deity Link instead.

Nothing specific to Ike, it was just done as a shot-for-shot reference to the final portion of the final boss battle of FF7.

Spoiler: Spoilers for a 17 year old game's final boss fight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn7lohID9UE[/spoilers]

 

[Splebel]

I have a question that I don't want to get out of hand, so I was saying that quite a few of Ike's moves look similar to Marth's and as such he could be considered a clone character at first glance and I was told I was wrong and Marth and Ike's moves look nothing alike. None of these guys were Ike mains so I'm asking, do his moves look similar to Marth or am I still completely wrong? Because I still stand by Ike's Fsmash and Dsmash being slower versions of Marth's.

 

[Arrei]

What? No, he's... he's not even close to a clone. What? Do you even see how literally none of Ike's other moves and animations besides Counter are remotely similar? That's like saying King Dedede is a clone of Marth because his FSmash is also a disjointed overhead arc with a sweetspot. And that they're both kings. And blue. Wait, did I just blow a conspiracy wide open here?

 

[Splebel]

What? No, he's... he's not even close to a clone. What? Do you even see how literally none of Ike's other moves and animations besides Counter are remotely similar? That's like saying King Dedede is a clone of Marth because his FSmash is also a disjointed overhead arc with a sweetspot. And that they're both kings. And blue. Wait, did I just blow a conspiracy wide open here?

But Ike shares more in common than King Dedede does and I'm not saying he is a clone but to a casual player he could look like a clone because he shares quite a bit with Marth. More than Robin does with Marth.

 

[Arrei]

Only if the casual player was also blind.

None of Ike's aerials are similar. Two of Ike's tilts are completely different. Dtilt has a totally different motion even if it's a quick attack, and almost all Dtilts are a quick low sweep anyway. He has a normal jab combo with a disjointed last hit to Marth's repeating two slashes. His Usmash is the polar opposite of Marth's. Aether is totally different, Quick Draw is totally different, Eruption's only similarity to Shield Breaker is being a charged move. Dash attack is different. A forward, then back attack is exceedingly common among DSmashes.

 

[Splebel]

Clearly I'm not seeing something that everyone else is seeing so I'm going to drop this before it becomes a big thing so no one talk about it anymore.

 

[Ekans647]

I played an extremely strong Ike yesterday who went by Pavel. I was going by Mactíre. We played Ike dittos, and even though he won most of the time, he made me play better than I ever have before, especially during our last match. We unfortunately disconnected before we could settle things. Does anyone here know a player by that name?

 

[Prepare_Yourself]

Almost all sword wielder's down smashes are the same. What would they recommend Ike's down smash be? I can't think of anything other than what it is.

 

[Arrei]

I'd still prefer a Dsmash like Dedede's, attacking both sides at the same time with equal strength, but that's mostly because Ike's back hit is so very useless.

 

[Prepare_Yourself]

It's good for scaring off roll spammers. This is important when you play a lot of for glory; the low startup and decent power makes it perfect for that. One like dedede's or shulk's is better suited for higher power than tilts with less startup than sidesmashes, which I just use Ike's down and side tilt for

 

[Crelrn]

It's good for scaring off roll spammers. This is important when you play a lot of for glory; the low startup and decent power makes it perfect for that. One like dedede's or shulk's is better suited for higher power than tilts with less startup than sidesmashes, which I just use Ike's down and side tilt for

Ike has better options to punish rolls (up smash, dash attack...)

 

[Prepare_Yourself]

If you're standing still and they try to approach with a roll, downsmash works well since it covers both sides and comes out fast, which neither upsmash nor dash attach can do both of. Upsmash can cover a roll getup read pretty well though.

 

[Arrei]

Dsmash's back hit is ridiculously slow, it can't catch rolls at all. It takes as long as Fsmash to come out. You should be turning around and using a faster move or trying to catch them with an aerial instead if you're anticipating a roll, or Usmash if you're fishing for the kill.

 

[DarkStar64]

Ike has always been my main man, but honestly I've never been more tempted to pick up another character than Cloud. Something tells me I'm going to love Cloud when he makes his glorious debut. Still going to always play Ike, but I'm probably more qualified to main Cloud seeing as I actually played through FFVII as where I never actually played through POR or RD (I still really want to though) I feel like a fraud Ike main because I never finished his games Anyone know a good place where I could pick up bothe for cheap? I know they're pretty rare games at this point.

 

[Prepare_Yourself]

Dsmash's back hit is ridiculously slow, it can't catch rolls at all. It takes as long as Fsmash to come out. You should be turning around and using a faster move or trying to catch them with an aerial instead if you're anticipating a roll, or Usmash if you're fishing for the kill.

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Crelrn]

Ike has always been my main man, but honestly I've never been more tempted to pick up another character than Cloud. Something tells me I'm going to love Cloud when he makes his glorious debut. Still going to always play Ike, but I'm probably more qualified to main Cloud seeing as I actually played through FFVII as where I never actually played through POR or RD (I still really want to though) I feel like a fraud Ike main because I never finished his games Anyone know a good place where I could pick up bothe for cheap? I know they're pretty rare games at this point.

They're expensive regardless of where you buy them lol

If you're standing still and they try to approach with a roll, downsmash works well since it covers both sides and comes out fast, which neither upsmash nor dash attach can do both of. Upsmash can cover a roll getup read pretty well though.

Not sure what the spacing you have in mind is as far as their roll, but bair would cover the behind spacing and u-tilt would cover the in front spacing faster than D-Smash. It's just a worse option.

 

[Krysco]

It's rather unfortunate that PoR and RD aren't being released as eshop titles when Awakening went and made FE 'mainstream popular' and Rekka no Ken and Sacred Stones are available. Heck, Mario Galaxy 2 and Metroid Prime Trilogy are available and they're Wii games (technically, two of them are Gamecube games).

As for dsmash, I recall in Brawl it had little use. Usmash covered more area than dsmash and covered it faster and I believe stronger though maybe the second hit of dsmash was stronger. Course, that's a different game but it doesn't seem like too much has changed for those two moves between games.

 

[mario123007]

Is there an Ike Discord group?

 

[san.]

Is there an Ike Discord group?

https://discord.gg/0bxxoASMJNk7ujnS

 

[mario123007]

https://discord.gg/0bxxoASMJNk7ujnS

Thank you!

 

[Deleted member]

Hey, y'all. Wanted to ask a question. As you can probably tell, I main . I've been playing around with Ike or a while now (I also play him in Brawl and PM), and having been considering picking him up as a secondary or maining him. Does he cover Dedede's weaknesses and his bad MUs well?

 

[GhostUrsa]

@Feelicks Ike is definitely a faster character than TripleD, with a good punish and grab game, plus some awesome kill options against offstage opponents (Eruption is that damn good). But I'd personally not recommend him as a secondary for covering DeDeDe's weaknesses, as the King has a better recovery game, a good projectile, much farther reach and a sex kick option for keeping grapplers away. TripleD isn't really better or worse than Ike, just different.

Picking him up for a while would still be useful, as they both being slow, punishment characters will allow their differences to help evolve your own play-style. Maybe you end up liking one more than the other due to how they handle, that is up to you.

 

[Deleted member]

@Feelicks Ike is definitely a faster character than TripleD, with a good punish and grab game, plus some awesome kill options against offstage opponents (Eruption is that damn good). But I'd personally not recommend him as a secondary for covering DeDeDe's weaknesses, as the King has a better recovery game, a good projectile, much farther reach and a sex kick option for keeping grapplers away. TripleD isn't really better or worse than Ike, just different.

Picking him up for a while would still be useful, as they both being slow, punishment characters will allow their differences to help evolve your own play-style. Maybe you end up liking one more than the other due to how they handle, that is up to you.

True, but Ike's generally more versatile than Dedede despite worse recovery. Dedede's also got it worse against most high/top tiers so that's why I was wondering as well. Alternating between the two sounds like something I'll do, but we'll see.

 

[GhostUrsa]

The way I see it, Ike and DeDeDe focus on different philosophies of a similar fighting style in smash. In this case the heavy, long reaching punish style. They do cover each others weaknesses to some extent because of their weapons of choice, but they share the same weaknesses that all heavies have. Because of this shared core, I don't see one or the other being a good choice to cover each other's weaknesses in a purely statistical sense.

Thinking about it more, if you are hoping just to cover some of DeDeDe's weaknesses but have a similar enough play style then go right for it. The need for spacing is strong for both characters, and both hit hard enough to take stocks early when the opportunity arises. Personally, I see the two together more as a character mix-up option to throw off your opponent than a straight up balance against bad match-ups.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

GhostUrsa

"TripleD isn't really better or worse than Ike, just different. "

Ike is potentially top 15 in the game. D3 is potentially bottom 15 in the game.

That is a massive difference. D3 is vastly inferior to Ike. Like... what MUs does D3 win besides against some of the characters in the same range as him? Even the D3 Board MU Chart looks pretty darn bleak.

I also would say Ike actually might have a better recovery overall. D3 has his multiple jumps yes, but his aerial movement speed is so bad and he only has his Up B to compliment his recoveries.... He can recover better from diagonally below the stage but that would be the only area where I say D3 is better off. Otherwise, while he might have more potential range, his speed is too slow to not be very predictable: he's going to be most likely taking more damage than Ike returning to the stage, particularly if its from the upper corners due to a lack of a Side B to assist in quickly recovering. They're at least close in recovery abilities.

---

If you're looking for a good character against Sheik, Ike ain't the answer. He doesn't have a helpless MU against her by any means, but its not a good MU either. If you're talking about every other character Ike is pretty serviceable. Being one of the best counter picks against Sonic is a bonus as well, depending on your region.

 

[Deleted member]

GhostUrsa

"TripleD isn't really better or worse than Ike, just different. "

Ike is potentially top 15 in the game. D3 is potentially bottom 15 in the game.

That is a massive difference. D3 is vastly inferior to Ike. Like... what MUs does D3 win besides against some of the characters in the same range as him? Even the D3 Board MU Chart looks pretty darn bleak.

I also would say Ike actually might have a better recovery overall. D3 has his multiple jumps yes, but his aerial movement speed is so bad and he only has his Up B to compliment his recoveries.... He can recover better from diagonally below the stage but that would be the only area where I say D3 is better off. Otherwise, while he might have more potential range, his speed is too slow to not be very predictable: he's going to be most likely taking more damage than Ike returning to the stage, particularly if its from the upper corners due to a lack of a Side B to assist in quickly recovering. They're at least close in recovery abilities.

---

If you're looking for a good character against Sheik, Ike ain't the answer. He doesn't have a helpless MU against her by any means, but its not a good MU either. If you're talking about every other character Ike is pretty serviceable. Being one of the best counter picks against Sonic is a bonus as well, depending on your region.

Agreed with everything you said. Dedede probably has one of the weakest MU spreads in this game while Ike's is pretty darn good overall except having bad MUs like and . I'd say Dedede would be bottom 5 if it weren't for players like Big D and KingJames.

 

[Macedonian]

Ike looses to pika? This is news to me

 

[GhostUrsa]

Nidtendofreak I was thinking about it from a mechanics perspective more than a MU perspective, so shame on me for forgetting to take into account that half of Feelick's question.

Macedonian Unless something has changed since the last time I've been in tournaments (Been since the end of October for me. :-( ), Pikachu should still be at an advantage against Ike. Speed, recovery, decent power, gimp game make it harder for an Ike to keep up. Not nearly as much of a up-hill battle as Sheik, but still problematic.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Agreed with everything you said. Dedede probably has one of the weakest MU spreads in this game while Ike's is pretty darn good overall except having bad MUs like and . I'd say Dedede would be bottom 5 if it weren't for players like Big D and KingJames.

Ike is even against Pika or has a slight edge.

MK isn't as bad as San's match against Alb....albadongo....that Japanese player that used to play Pac-Man made it look. We lose it, but its not a MU where we get shut down either.

Ike's worst MUs are probably Sheik, ZSS, Fox, and MK, but none of them are worse than 40-60. I don't know if he has any other MUs in that range either, and out of those four I'd say at least ZSS has the potential to change into the 45-55 range with time, and the Fox MU always has a * beside it because he's just so light he gets completely hosed if he screws up. We're talking "getting grabbed at the edge around 60% can lead to him being edgeguarded and killed" hosed.

When it comes to picking up Ike as a secondary... its hard to say. You can reach a certain threshold fairly quickly with Ike, as its not as if he's like say Shulk or Olimar or another character where you need to lean something unique to the character. Can you learn how to space moves well, pivot grab, throw combos, and how to time Eruption? Great you have the fundamentals mostly down. Look into his one footstool combo if you have time and want to be able to potentially wrack up 40% damage at the start of each stock and practice getting the feel for his aerials.

However, Ike as a character heavily showcases your level of fundamentals. If you are really strong in one area it will show. If you're really weak in one area it will show. Outside of Eruption Ike is a very "honest" character: you don't have any cheese to fall back on and get you out of trouble outside of Eruption edgeguards which aren't the easiest thing in the world to land against some characters.

He's at least easy to pick up and test out in a tournament for secondary viability though.

 

[Prepare_Yourself]

Ike is even against Pika or has a slight edge.

MK isn't as bad as San's match against Alb....albadongo....that Japanese player that used to play Pac-Man made it look. We lose it, but its not a MU where we get shut down either.

Abodango and Zage are the Pac-Mans that make him look really good.

 

[Ekans647]

What some uses for eruption? I can never optimize it.

 

[Prepare_Yourself]

What some uses for eruption? I can never optimize it.

Edgeguard against telegraphed recoveries, especially if they're out of jumps.
Also, http://smashboards.com/threads/uses-for-eruption.404037/

 

[DarkStar64]

Kind of off topic but this is the social thread so I'll put it here: Someone with artistic ability needs to make a t-shirt design of Ike from South Park dressed up as our Ike with the back of the shirt saying "I Fight for my Fwends" Anyone who wants to make this I will pay you greatly for one lol

 

[Crelrn]

Kind of off topic but this is the social thread so I'll put it here: Someone with artistic ability needs to make a t-shirt design of Ike from South Park dressed up as our Ike with the back of the shirt saying "I Fight for my Fwends" Anyone who wants to make this I will pay you greatly for one lol

 

[Senliten]

Kind of off topic but this is the social thread so I'll put it here: Someone with artistic ability needs to make a t-shirt design of Ike from South Park dressed up as our Ike with the back of the shirt saying "I Fight for my Fwends" Anyone who wants to make this I will pay you greatly for one lol

Custom graphic t-shirts are overrated, challenge coins are where it's at. XD
Slam one of them down with Ike's face as Ike and you know you mean business.

 

[Macedonian]

Custom graphic t-shirts are overrated, challenge coins are where it's at. XD
Slam one of them down with Ike's face as Ike and you know you mean business.

I actually want to go to a tourney and just put a few pictures in front of me while I play the set, just so I can be like yea those are the friends I'm fighting for.

 

[Senliten]

I actually want to go to a tourney and just put a few pictures in front of me while I play the set, just so I can be like yea those are the friends I'm fighting for.

Needs moar waifu's.

 

[Prepare_Yourself]

Why am I one of the youngest people here? And by a lot...

 

[Lily♫]

Why am I one of the youngest people here? And by a lot...

I'm younger.
Not like age really means that much.