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Social "Friends being fought for!" Ike General Discussion

Arrei

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Also, is going offstage for an aerial ever better then using eruption to edgeguard? Been wondering since I have a habit of going offstage and trying to get a bair or dair.
It's good for mixups. Opponents might decide to start recovering high once they see you going for Eruption, which is a great time to go for Fair or Uair with their area coverage. Characters that can harass you from above with a projectile such as Mario, Dedede, or Pikachu may also try to use it to stuff your Eruption, but if you can predict it coming, using those projectiles also locks them into the animation for long enough to swat them with an Fair, as long you can maneuver well enough to avoid the projectile or destroy it with Fair's swing. And as always, a walk-off Fair is a formidable tool to pull out when your opponent isn't expecting it.

Plus Eruption is nigh useless against tether recoveries unless you get super lucky, so aerials would be your only edgeguard options then.
 

Macedonian

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Thank you especially for the point about eruption with tethers I had discovered that yet.
 
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Hey, gusy. Just wanted to say thanks. I got 3rd place in a friendly tournament, just 8 people, but it was intense. It was incredible to see Ike shine but I ultimately fell to, of all things, Charizard.

We used a variant of the Last Hero Standing format for Hearthstone, but, instead we secretly chose 3 mains which was only revealed a week before tournament date.

Too bad only 50% of the footage survived (my laptop ran out of memory). I'll upload it sometime this week if anyone is interested.

Players/Mains
Challonge results
 

predator_21476

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Hey guys I've been wanting to go to my first tournament for quite some time now and is there any suggestions you guys can make? Other than some usual things like don't expect to do well because i expect to get bodied. Also would anyone like to play against me because i'd like to see what i'm getting into because most of my friends are not great at the game.

Edit* I only own the wii u version.
 
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D

Deleted member 269706

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The freakin' SWF thread is blowing up with Ike debates. Is he good? Is he bad? There is so much misinformation about this character it's almost amusing.

Hey guys I've been wanting to go to my first tournament for quite some time now and is there any suggestions you guys can make? Other than some usual things like don't expect to do well because i expect to get bodied. Also would anyone like to play against me because i'd like to see what i'm getting into because most of my friends are not great at the game.

Edit* I only own the wii u version.
As an Ike player who goes to some weeklies, my advice is that for the beginning of a set, play a more defensive game. Get a feel for your opponent before you go in like you might normally. Make sure to space well and play really safe against characters with strong punish games. I'd offer to practice against you but I don't have a set-up :/
 
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Poopybutthole

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Do you guys believe that I could get far at tournaments just by solo maiming Ike. I don't mean like winning a national but just succeeding far and consistently make top 8 at regionals and such. Do Ryo / San / Ryuga go only Ike in tourneys? I know he has real MUs but since I'm not at that top level of play, do you think I could get away with solo maiming just by being the better player?
 
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san.

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Do you guys believe that I could get far at tournaments just by solo maiming Ike. I don't mean like winning a national but just succeeding far and consistently make top 8 at regionals and such. Do Ryo / San / Ryuga go only Ike in tourneys? I know he has real MUs but since I'm not at that top level of play, do you think I could get away with solo maiming just by being the better player?
I've had the most success going only Ike than mixing up characters.
 

Poopybutthole

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I've had the most success going only Ike than mixing up characters.
Hmm alright, I may just stick with Ike until I get better with him and this game overall and pick up a secondary in the future. Is your tactic kind of like a mix up that just makes it so the opponent has to adapt to a different play-style with your other character or is it more match-up base or both?
 

san.

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Hmm alright, I may just stick with Ike until I get better with him and this game overall and pick up a secondary in the future. Is your tactic kind of like a mix up that just makes it so the opponent has to adapt to a different play-style with your other character or is it more match-up base or both?
I use other characters mostly to develop my knowledge of the game and practice some things that I may not be able to with Ike very often. Other than that, it's difficult to have your secondary perform better than your main.
 

Poopybutthole

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I use other characters mostly to develop my knowledge of the game and practice some things that I may not be able to with Ike very often. Other than that, it's difficult to have your secondary perform better than your main.
I tend to do that as well in terms of learning multiple characters but than it kind of hurts me since I never find one solid main and learning all the match-ups and fully discovering a single character. Very true though about that, I'll just see when I get to that top level of play if ever one day, thank you for your input Sans. :)
 

SimplyClutchh

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I was waiting for the Youtube videos to be uploaded, but I'm guessing it probably won't be uploaded anytime soon. Anyways, here's the Twitch link to my first tourney win I posted about earlier. About 40 people participated.

http://www.twitch.tv/alaskagamers/v/20581171#

Time stamps:
Vs. Mario : 2:35:00 (Winner's Semi-Finals)
Vs. DK/C. Falcon (Winner's Finals): 3:00:00
Vs. Falco/C. Falcon/DK (Grand Finals): 4:36:00

Some pretty close matches! Overall, I was pretty happy with my play here, but feel free to give me some tips. Hopefully I can grab another one soon. Thanks again to you all here in the Ike boards!
 
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Poopybutthole

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I was waiting for the Youtube videos to be uploaded, but I'm guessing it probably won't be uploaded anytime soon. Anyways, here's the Twitch link to my first tourney win I posted about earlier. About 40 people participated.

http://www.twitch.tv/alaskagamers/v/20581171#

Time stamps:
Vs. Mario : 2:35:00 (Winner's Semi-Finals)
Vs. DK/C. Falcon (Winner's Finals): 3:00:00
Vs. Falco/C. Falcon/DK (Grand Finals): 4:36:00

Some pretty close matches! Overall, I was pretty happy with my play here, but feel free to give me some tips. Hopefully I can grab another one soon. Thanks again to you all here in the Ike boards!
First of all congratulations on your first tournament win, especially with that Ike representation! Good job and I hope to do the same in my city soon as well. My advice is going to be more directed towards your play-style and less of Ike because my Ike is pretty new itself. It's kind of repetitive because you made pretty much the same mistakes throughout the next three games but yeah those were the bigger things I've noticed.

Game 1: You actually didn't do that bad and I think it was a mixture of that guy playing kind of badly too, he seemed like he didn't really know how to fight versus Ike and really rarely did he charge his FLUDD at all. On the other hand the biggest thing I noticed is your edge-guards. You seemed a little to hopeful of this guy messing up his recoveries and did Forward Smash even though he technically wasn't in an angle to even land on top of the stage and could just slide up on the BF wall and sweetspot the ledge, I would say the same for Eruption too and how reliant you were on it. A few times you could've simply just gone for ledge trump to Back Air instead of F-Smash and then there were times when the Up B hit you through the ledge and it interrupted your Erruption, IIRC it's kind of a distance specific thing too as to whether or not it will hit through so it's kind of more of knowing when if the Up B will interrupt you and just remembering that you can just wait on stage and read the enemy's get-up option.

Another minor thing I noticed was that nice little string you did in the beginning with the Down Tilt to Forward Airs but by the third time the guy actually blocked it and punished you for it. I just think that was at the point where you should've just mixed it up cause it was kind of like the "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" type of deal. Of course it's kind of hard to think about that in a real match though but I just find it necessary to point out the little things as well.

Game 2: If I recall correctly Down Tilt -> Forward Air doesn't work from like 0 - 25%. You got the Down Tilt twice but both times he air dodged it until the third time when he was actually in a percent where the Down Tilt would put him in enough hit stun for Forward Air. Probably at the heat of the moment due to it working on Game 1, you probably forgot that you had platforms to help you pull it off in that first match. IIRC Down Tilt -> B-Air at lower percents.

I noticed you doing that Eruption stuff again on the ledge too when this guy is basically almost always perfect recovering and sweetspotting the ledge, you just gotta ledge trump or get ready to read a get-up. Both in game 1 and game 2 you got a grab at 0% and it seemed like instinctively pummeled for some reason to which they just broke out of it. You should keep in mind of percent based punishes, you were both at 100% on first stock and he was on the ledge and you ran towards him with a Dash Attack, a really obvious option that the guy predicted and punished you for, IIRC he got a Back Throw on the ledge but it didn't kill you because he didn't pummel but he did end up getting you with U-Smash.

Overall second game it seemed you were tilting pretty hard. You Side B-ed into his shield and got punished, you got hit by his Down Throw to Up Smash at high percents by air dodging when you could've just jumped away I'm pretty sure. You kept pummeling at low percents and him breaking out of it, and correct me if I'm wrong but you Forward Threw at low percents instead of going for a Up Throw or Down Throw combo to help you rack up percent but it seemed you desperately wanted to get him off-stage for a potential gimp which it didn't really do much since he was at low percents nor did you take advantage of your stage control when throwing him off.

Overall this match you seemed to be playing pretty recklessly. You're getting hit by a lot of Fireballs like you were playing wifi Mario and couldn't properly power shield. You let him recover for free all the time and never read his get-up options or ledge trumped and you kept trying to do stuff with D-Air (which Up B beat you out every single time) and Eruption which either is timing or simply doesn't work versus a player who can properly sweetspot Mario's Up B which it isn't to hard tbh, his recovery is really good. You kept doing low percent back / forward throws for stage control even though it wasn't doing much for you and you were probably way better off just going for Up Throw / Down Throw to Forward Air to help you get caught up in percents with him (NOT FOR SURE, you were at high percents so rage may have affected it but he was at low percents)

Game 3: You basically were destroying this guy, I could tell this guy was either nervous or pretty new to Mario cause he never does Up Throw -> D-Air -> Forward Air at 0% and always go for D-Throw Up Tilt which you obviously escaped each time. Again for the second time you went for a risky Dash Attack on the ledge which wasn't as obvious as in the second game cause you could have done Dash Grab considering how close his shield was to breaking but you gotta keep in mind either Dash Attack / Grab is spot dodgeable and he only at 55% so he punished your Dash Attack. You could've went for a safe Down Tilt / Forward Tilt poke on his shield to force a reaction instead of going for Dash Attack and putting you in a position right next to him.

For the most part it's the same thing I have to say in terms of edge guarding this game. I could tell on the second stock when you were at really high percents you were choking. You kept doing predictable get-up options which was recovering above him to avoid Up Smash which he read three times and overall he just kept reading all your options and continuously threw you off the stage but luckily this guy didn't pummel enough for Back Throw kills and you barely survived most of the time and eventually got D-Throw kill. I could tell in the end the Mario was REALLY scared though and respecting you.
 
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Mario766

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D-Tilt into F-Air at low percents only work if they don't air dodge or if they jump.

You can hard read the air dodge and N-Air their landing for a free extra follow-up.

I'm actually doing a lot of thinking on cover landings and how Ike can maximize punish bad defense options and I'll post my findings when I get some concrete info.
 

Poopybutthole

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D-Tilt into F-Air at low percents only work if they don't air dodge or if they jump.

You can hard read the air dodge and N-Air their landing for a free extra follow-up.

I'm actually doing a lot of thinking on cover landings and how Ike can maximize punish bad defense options and I'll post my findings when I get some concrete info.
Awesome I've never considered doing Neutral Air instead of Forward Air, do post your findings whenever you get around to it! On the other hand yea the D-Tilt to F-Air I feel like anyone who knows the MU will probably make the mistake of jumping to avoid it but for the most part people always air dodge.
 

Mario766

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I don't agree. A lot of people just jump because if they air dodge after the down tilt, they take landing lag from it because they are too low to the ground. Static Manny vs Ryo shows this. Ryo does a lot of F-Airs because he assumes Manny will jump, not air dodge to avoid the landing lag. This lets him get the F-Air because it comes out just slow enough so it doesn't true combo, but hits during the jump animation of the double jump, where you can't do an action due to being locked in the jump squat animation. This gets you hit during your jump, takes it away and puts you in disadvantage.
 

Poopybutthole

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I don't agree. A lot of people just jump because if they air dodge after the down tilt, they take landing lag from it because they are too low to the ground. Static Manny vs Ryo shows this. Ryo does a lot of F-Airs because he assumes Manny will jump, not air dodge to avoid the landing lag. This lets him get the F-Air because it comes out just slow enough so it doesn't true combo, but hits during the jump animation of the double jump, where you can't do an action due to being locked in the jump squat animation. This gets you hit during your jump, takes it away and puts you in disadvantage.
Interesting I haven't done it of that way, I really should watch some matches of Ryo and stuff as well.
 

SimplyClutchh

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Awesome, thanks for the advice! Yeah, wasn't sure what type of solid follow-up to do after dtilt at low percents, but reading the air dodge and nairing seems great to cover that option also. Edge guarding is one of my weaker points, and I always forget ledge trumping is an option when I'm playing in-tourney. I barely have time to hit the lab nowadays, but I'll try to keep improving.
 

Poopybutthole

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Awesome, thanks for the advice! Yeah, wasn't sure what type of solid follow-up to do after dtilt at low percents, but reading the air dodge and nairing seems great to cover that option also. Edge guarding is one of my weaker points, and I always forget ledge trumping is an option when I'm playing in-tourney. I barely have time to hit the lab nowadays, but I'll try to keep improving.
You did great, and we're in the same boat in terms of weak edge guarding. Just something you gotta keep working on, I love our motivation! :^) If I ever get to it I'll probably watch your next two sets sometimes today and I'm try to look past more than just the basic stuff like edge guarding and more specific habits I noticed or neutral game. Looking out for that type of stuff will help me a lot too just cause I'm not great at analyzing play yet so I'll try it with your matches.
 
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AN(M)ist

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Attention Ike boards, another sword user with a big sword is now entering the smash arena.

Now excuse me while i spend the rest of the day drooling.
 

Champ Gold

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Attention Ike boards, another sword user with a big sword is now entering the smash arena.

Now excuse me while i spend the rest of the day drooling.
And he's still isn't better than our man Ike.


We still gonna prove dominance
 

Troykv

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Too many swordsmen xD

Cloud is a cool adition (also, makes sense, an iconic character from one of the biggest franchises and with actual legacy... even with Nintendo... and even talking about Cloud/hisgame himself... *Insert FFVII originally was a 64 game*).
 

Arrei

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Honestly, it annoys me very much that Cloud is a guy with a big sword who gets a blade beam special. But I suppose I can't complain too much when Eruption is actually a useful move in this Smash.
 

Quickhero

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Honestly, it annoys me very much that Cloud is a guy with a big sword who gets a blade beam special. But I suppose I can't complain too much when Eruption is actually a useful move in this Smash.
I wanted a character that at least had multiple weapons to stand out from the rest of the swordsman. Someone like Dante, Lloyd, Zero, I would've been pumped as hell for any of them. I suppose Cloud is cool, but he's not as cool as any swordsman I really had on my mind. :(
 

Troykv

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Honestly, it annoys me very much that Cloud is a guy with a big sword who gets a blade beam special. But I suppose I can't complain too much when Eruption is actually a useful move in this Smash.
Well, at least this could make easier that Ike can gets a Blade Beam Special Custom Move in the Next Smash xD
 

e105beta

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Honestly, it annoys me very much that Cloud is a guy with a big sword who gets a blade beam special. But I suppose I can't complain too much when Eruption is actually a useful move in this Smash.
Tell me about it. Sakurai decides that a blade beam doesn't fit with Ike's playstyle, which is arguably untrue to the character, but now that we're in fan service DLC mode Cloud comes in with big hits with a long sword and a friggin blade beam.

Urgh.
 

-RedX-

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Blade Beam + a usable Dsmash at first glance + sick multi-hit attack is already making me salty in regards to how appealing Cloud is so far.
 

Crelrn

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I never thought I'd see the day where I would consider a secondary.
You and me both. Depending on how he plays I may even considering switching to him. Ike will forever be in my heart, though!
 

Maik93

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I just hope that Cloud won't take away Ike's spot in the meta as the swordsman with the huge range.
He got a projectile, is fairly fast and has reasonable killing power from what the trailer shows.
And there is the whole Thing with his Limit-meter...
 

Arrei

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I think people in the Cloud analysis topic were noting his reach isn't particularly huge for having such a big sword. His jab being a kick instead of a punch is going to make it a really good spacing tool though, I think.

Seeing his Dair, though, it makes me wish they'd just give Ike a usable spike all over again.


Speaking of which though, was having Cloud demonstrate his Omnislash on a Black Knight Ike a reference to something? Knowing the final boss of FF7, I expected it to be Fierce Deity Link instead.
 
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xXIke-SamaXx

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I think people in the Cloud analysis topic were noting his reach isn't particularly huge for having such a big sword. His jab being a kick instead of a punch is going to make it a really good spacing tool though, I think.

Seeing his Dair, though, it makes me wish they'd just give Ike a usable spike all over again.


Speaking of which though, was having Cloud demonstrate his Omnislash on a Black Knight Ike a reference to something? Knowing the final boss of FF7, I expected it to be Fierce Deity Link instead.
I think it's a decleration of war against Ike, or a reference the Ike is being hit with a huge nerf bat...
 
D

Deleted member 269706

Guest
Not saying that I'm dropping Ike for Cloud...but I am definitely picking that man up. He has a spike on his Fair for crying out loud. And he has projectiles. And multihits. And some crazy ass gimmick that makes him ridiculously good. This man has everything that Ike has ever needed.
 

the king of murder

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@Everyone who drops Ike for Cloud.....

Traitors.

Don't come back when it turns out Cloud is just a crappy low tier.

nah just kiddin. Have fun with him.

But seriously, the only thing Ike and Cloud have in common is a big sword. Visually and charachter wise, they are so different.
 

Mario766

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Ragnell still out-ranges Buster Sword, mostly because Cloud likes to use the back side of the blade for ?????? reasons and his hitboxes are rather wonky as they don't linger, they are instant.
 
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