Frame Perfect vs. The World

[Nihonjin]

good my plan worked

but in reality the only thing imo to beat a FP fox is a FP falco.

Well played Sir Troll..

 

[King Funk]

I think that nothing but perfect DI and SDI + insane techs by Perfect Fox would make it nearly impossible to kill him. But first you have to hit him. >_>

 

[Strong Badam]

god this thread is ********.

 

[Gea]

Good luck grabbing. (Not to mention he'd wiggle out instantly)

Pretty sure there is a limit to the amount of inputs so he can only wiggle out "perfectly," not instantly. And there is grab break lag so someone else can grab him. Just saying.

 

[Nihonjin]

^Same thing at low percentage. And to be in the position to regrab him the situation where he's grabbed in the first place would have to be perfect for the team fighting him. My guess is that it won't be 999 out of 1000 times.

 

[metalreflectslime]

Win

This is easy guys.

Here's my solution: Final Destination, m2k(fox), mango(jiggs), hungrybox(jiggs). It requires the assumption that the CPU will always either shine or powershield fox lasers. Judging by level 9's, that isn't a bad assumption; the perfect CPU will probably take after its brethren and attempt to powershield.

m2k as fox spams lasers at the cpu fox. If he responds by shining, continuous lasers will trap him in the shine, so mango and hungrybox can grab rest. If he responds by powershielding, mango/hungrybox grab then rest.

Yes?

The supercomputer frame perfect Fox won't PS if it isn't the safest option. Amsah wins this thread. No questions.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

this thread alone is why amsah should be in the mbr

 

[KirbyKaze]

Amsah *is* in the MBR.

And I still think 3v1 is ezmode without friendly fire if you just take 3 Falcos.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

i never said he wasnt in the MBR

 

[Kanelol]

>implying he has time to even grab a hand of needles

I see what you did there

In unrelated news, a bunch of nerds in this thread are overestimating what a frame perfect CPU could do

no matter how fast it is, it's still a cpu, a ******** gorilla could outthink it

 

[Pi]

"Kniht, are you taking into account the fact that three human player can't work together absolutely perfectly?"

^No He's not.

He's arguing three people could coordinate attacks to exploit a 5 frame window that might or might not show itself.

I don't even understand where you're coming from any more

a 5 frame window would have to be shown for any type of offensive action that the fox does.

Whether or not the two other people are in a position to punish it is a different story.

And yes I was taking into account they can't work together perfectly, ty for assuming I'm ignorant though. My example about counting down was to point out that even non frame perfect actions would be more than enough to get a hit or a grab off on the fox.

Point being?

What are you talking about, the point being that if he hits anyone with a shine, there is 5 frames of input lag, plus hit lag, as someone sarcastically pointed out earlier in the thread a marth swinging his sword around wildly could hit that window.


The only, imo, and easiest way (hardest for humans to counter) for the fox to win this matchup, is to grab the ledge, and hold it. Abuse invincibility frames to counter any approach the 3 others make

Being on the stage leaves him too vulnerable, with no invincibility frames to abuse, shine is not as broken as you make it out to be (not saying it isn't amazing), you can't shine on every frame.

And watching those videos, a bunch of uncoordinated CPU's getting shine separated because they threw out attacks, wasn't as helpful as I thought, seeing as how anyone can point out different scenarios that would have gotten the fox hit (more).

If the fox was programmed to only attack when it was 100% safe, meaning, judging proximity of characters, knowledge of hitboxes & timings and spacings of moves, and every thing. He would never attack.

Attacking first is never safe.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

and with 3 people basically all of the fox's options could be covered.

 

[Nihonjin]

I don't even understand where you're coming from any more

a 5 frame window would have to be shown for any type of offensive action that the fox does.

Whether or not the two other people are in a position to punish it is a different story. <--- By a different story you mean the most important part, right?

And yes I was taking into account they can't work together perfectly, ty for assuming I'm ignorant though. My example about counting down was to point out that even non frame perfect actions would be more than enough to get a hit or a grab off on the fox.

You don't understand how a frameperfect Fox works. It will not attack you if that means leaving itself vulnerable to attack. But as soon his opponent is a pixel to far to punish him (meaning he'll get phantom hit) he'll take that opening.

What you're suggesting is that one three people coordinate an attack to literally cover all his options to the pixel, then move forward in that formation and use one of the players as fodder to force him to shine, then have the other two players use that 5 frame window to grab him and regrab him as he wiggles out.

It's impossible to pull off consistently. We cannot see pixels, we cannot see frames.

What are you talking about, the point being that if he hits anyone with a shine, there is 5 frames of input lag, plus hit lag, as someone sarcastically pointed out earlier in the thread a marth swinging his sword around wildly could hit that window.

He would not shine if a Marth is within range to punish it.

The only, imo, and easiest way (hardest for humans to counter) for the fox to win this matchup, is to grab the ledge, and hold it. Abuse invincibility frames to counter any approach the 3 others make

Camping the edge with a frame perfect Fox is the easiest way to get yourself gimped. You cannot gimp something that doesn't make mistakes and edge stalls aren't perfect. You cannot abuse invincibility because you're not invincible 100% of the time, he will kill you in the frames you're not.

Being on the stage leaves him too vulnerable, with no invincibility frames to abuse, shine is not as broken as you make it out to be (not saying it isn't amazing), you can't shine on every frame.

You're very very ignorant sir.

And watching those videos, a bunch of uncoordinated CPU's getting shine separated because they threw out attacks, wasn't as helpful as I thought, seeing as how anyone can point out different scenarios that would have gotten the fox hit (more).

The Fox is frame perfect, but makes human errors.

If the fox was programmed to only attack when it was 100% safe, meaning, judging proximity of characters, knowledge of hitboxes & timings and spacings of moves, and every thing. He would never attack.

Attacking first is never safe.

Yes, because obviously three people can cover every single option to the pixel at all times.

How do you suggest they do this? Two behind him one in front? Two infront of him one behind? All 3 infront of him? I'll tell you how he'll murder everything. (And I'm now assuming it's on FD with platforms because that would make things a million times worse for team Human.)

 

[Metal Reeper]

Top pro's could do it, one grab, unless the fox can mash out perfectly O.o NOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Beat!]

3 Captain Falcons.
All three taunt at the same time.
Fox explodes.
Win.

 

[Frame Perfect]

has anyone else noticed how kniht spelled backwards is think? and also i don't usually lose when playing with both hands.

 

[PB&J]

amsah for president

 

[Nø Ca$h]

a jiggs can cover every option on one side all while being too far to hit

2 puffs, one on each side = box of pain. fox does any thing other than DD and he gets baired.

 

[metalreflectslime]

Team Human

If the fox was programmed to only attack when it was 100% safe, meaning, judging proximity of characters, knowledge of hitboxes & timings and spacings of moves, and every thing. He would never attack.

What combination of characters in mind would you have that can cover every vital pixel and frame used by 3 top human players?

You seem to forgot to take into account that the Fox can see pixels and frames which humans cannot.

Also there needs to be some sort of rule set here. Is it 4 stocks each with an 8 minute time limit or is it untimed? Is team attack on?

 

[Metal Reeper]

3 Mango's couldnt handle 1 perfect fox.

 

[Masmasher@]

no because the computer would still jab in place all day

i believe this answered the question lmao

 

[Violence]

4 stock, 8 minute time limit, items off, friendly fire on.

 

[samsonites101]

Frame perfect SDI? He could just like tech anything anywhere because he could SDI on every single frame of hitlag. He'd like literally never die I think.

 

[lazy man]

This topic would make a really good basis for an Action Replay video.

The video could recreate all of the strategies mentioned in the topic with a simulated perfect fox and simulated humans, or even simulated computers using the strategies perfectly.

It would also be interesting to see what single character is the best frame perfect character, or to explain visually why certain matchups are stalemates.

In response to the question posed by the topic: If it is possible to beat a frame perfect fox with 3 frame perfect characters, then it is possible to beat a frame perfect fox with 3 humans, even if it's a small probability.

To the above post: I'm pretty sure it's impossible to survive an Up smash from a fox at 300% even using frame perfect SDI. (I'd like to be proved wrong with a video)