Frame Data Project - Second Try - The Beginning

[Yikarur]

spotdodge fo lyfe yo

also theyve always been called recovery moves yika. lol

also specials are nearly always separate from standard attacks because, well, they're special. I dont think Ive ever seen specials grouped with A attacks in any sort of technical context. same goes for grabs

never seen it called recovery moves ever, it does not even fit into the smash context (upB is a recovery move! ), I've always heard and use it as Get-up Options

and the "Opinion" Part Toomai asked for is not about spotdodge lol
it's

interruptable frames + animation length vs. Duration + in-depth information on the sub page instead

and

Up Throw vs. Up throw

:D

The aim of the wiki is to make it understandable for outsiders thats why I prefer the classic way ot calling it "Duration" instead of interruptable on and animation length.
Animation length etc. doesn't belong to pure frame data thats why I prefer putting onto the subpage.

Specials SHOULD belong below Standard Attacks, Specials are still standard moves of the game and shouldn't have techs and grabs inbetween.
imo:
Standard Attacks
- Jab
-Tilts
- Smashes
- Aerials
Specials
Grabs
Get-up Options + Tripping
Ledge Options
Tech Options

I always thought the reason special is so far apart is the listing in PSA, specials come very late in comparison to the rest.

 

[Toomai]

the classic way ot calling it "Duration"

I wasn't aware that the term "duration" had a 100% consistent interpretation across everywhere as to whether it means "interruptible on" or "animation length". As far as I'm concerned it's just flat-out ambiguous.

I would however be okay with having "duration" in the short numbers and "interruptible on" and "animation length" in the long numbers. We would however need to state what it means on a definitions page somewhere (which would be a good thing to have anyway).

 

[Yikarur]

every subpoint should get his own page with a brief explanation imo.

every physic point should get his own subpage with the given physics values in comparison for each character (like Max Air Speed with a list of every max air speed value in the game etc. )

I'm so hyped for this :3

 

[MonkUnit]

I thought duration meant the duration of the hitbox. IE: Frames 3-17.

Also, +1 to Up Throw instead of Up throw

 

[standardtoaster]

spot dooooooodge

 

[Yikarur]

I thought duration meant the duration of the hitbox. IE: Frames 3-17.

Also, +1 to Up Throw instead of Up throw

that was the terrible format of the old project.
we'll use this more common format :D
Duration means Duration of the move. (Duration+1 = FAF)

and yeay Up Throw support :D

 

[Yikarur]

so things you should change: (I would do it myself but I don't want to edit anything wrong accidently)
als
Standard Attacks -> Jab
Special below aerials
Interruptable on -> replaced with "duration" and remove the animation length column (doing both on the detailed subpage)
Sidestep -> Spotdodge (I would prefer writing air dodge airdodge but our termlist says air dodge, I need to address that)

I think we can start with filling the lines in when this template is finished hype

 

[Toomai]

Standard Attacks -> Jab

It looks kind of weird to see "jab" alongside "forward tilt", that's why the long version "neutral attack" is currently in use. It's not like you can't call it a jab anyway in prose sections.

Special below aerials

Fine you big baby.

Interruptable on -> replaced with "duration" and remove the animation length column (doing both on the detailed subpage)

Will use the wording "Minimum duration".

 

[Yikarur]

why minimum duration? sounds weird..
and Forward Tilt is the long form of "Ftilt"
Jab is not the abbrevation of "Standard Attack"

 

[Toomai]

why minimum duration? sounds weird..

Because the duration of a move differs depending on whether you interrupt it or not.

Jab is not the abbrevation of "Standard Attack"

It's not an abbreviation, no; it's a short form.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that since we're removing the interruptible on/animation length distinction from the character main pages, we now need subpages for all of a characters' get-up moves and dodges.

 

[Yikarur]

nothing wrong with subpages for each character.
and the duration doesn't differ.
The Duration of MKs dtilt is 15 frames, period. No one would argue about it, because you can do anything after the duration is over. The Animation has little to do with the frame data.

The Problem is only that the "IASA Frames" in Brawl can be cancelled into everything, making the IASA itself almost totally meaningless :/

 

[Toomai]

The Duration of MKs dtilt is 15 frames, period.

Then why is MK still in the down tilt action and still playing the down tilt animation for ten frames after that? The move doesn't end just because you can interrupt it with something; that's the entire point of the term "interrupt", to cut short the duration of a move.

 

[Yikarur]

you're so stubborn !
the Wiki should have general success thats why I want to use general accepted terms.
Minimum Duration looks ugly, makes the column too big for the one 2 digit number that will be there.
You could put in Duration*
with * explanation below or something like that.
like
*Duration marks the minimum duration the "IASA" frame of the move, while the move can be interrupted at any point with any move from that frame, the animation would continue if you don't interrupt the move

something like that below the general frame data.
besides thats you typed "minumum" for smashes

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Bumping to remind you guys this still exists. :madgrimer:

What's high on the priority list?

 

[Yikarur]

Tommai, I have no idea how I fill in the tables

 

[Yikarur]

Toomaaaaai
why is there a throw section for frame data? most throws are weight based, you can't put them in a table like that o:

 

[Toomai]

Because to get the frame data for weight-animated throws you still need the base values.

 

[Yikarur]

and what are the base values? and the table doesn't that these are base values

 

[Toomai]

For example, Mario's b-throw releases on frame 44 of the animation. The gametime this corresponds to is what's affected by weight. I will note this in the table.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

And another bump to remind you guys that this exists.

atm I'm slowly getting used to all this editing, it's actually quite fun!

 

[phi1ny3]

Hai guys, so I'm still alive, have a free window where I'm not under Academia's thumb, and I can finally get around to putting up the data for Lucario haha. So how would I get around to editing the wiki page again?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Hooray, help.

Spoiler

===Standard attacks===

For a more detailed breakdown, click on the move's name.

{{JabTable
|jabcount=3
|jab1hit=
|jab1next=
|jab1mindur=
|jab2next=
|jab2hit=
|jab2mindur=
|jab3hit=
|jab3mindur=
}}

{{TiltTable
|ftilthit=
|ftiltmindur=
|utilthit=
|utiltmindur=
|dtilthit=
|dtiltmindur=
|dashhit=
|dashmindur=
}}

{{SmashTable
|fsmashcharge=
|fsmashhit=
|fsmashmindur=
|usmashcharge=
|usmashhit=
|usmashmindur=
|dsmashcharge=
|dsmashhit=
|dsmashmindur=
}}

{{AerialTable
|nairautobefore=
|nairhit=
|nairautoafter=
|nairmindur=
|nairlag=
|fairautobefore=
|fairhit=
|fairautoafter=
|fairmindur=
|fairlag=
|bairautobefore=
|bairhit=
|bairautoafter=
|bairmindur=
|bairlag=
|uairautobefore=
|uairhit=
|uairautoafter=
|uairmindur=
|uairlag=
|dairautobefore=
|dairhit=
|dairautoafter=
|dairmindur=
|dairlag=
}}

{{GrabTable
|standhit=
|standmindur=
|runhit=
|runmindur=
|pivothit=
|pivotmindur=
}}
{{ThrowTable
|pummelhit=
|pummelmindur=
|fthrowrelease=
|fthrowmindur=
|fthrowweightbased=
|bthrowrelease=
|bthrowmindur=
|bthrowweightbased=
|uthrowrelease=
|uthrowmindur=
|uthrowweightbased=
|dthrowhit=
|dthrowrelease=
|dthrowmindur=
|dthrowweightbased=
}}

Copy paste that into the standard moveset part of the page. Quick explanation (though I was smart enough to figure it out pretty fast, so you should be able to too):

<move>hit is when the move has hitboxes
jabnext is the link interval
<move>mindur is the cooldown of the move, so put the last frame of cooldown, not the FAF
<smashattack>charge is the charge interval
<aerial>autobefore is basically the frame after the last autocancel frame (example, Lucario's nair's value for this would be 6)
<aerial>autoafter is the frame BEFORE the first autocancel frame (Again, Lucario's nair would be 38)

Hopefully that explains some stuff. :x