Frame Data Project - Second Try - The Beginning

[KayLo!]

^ Seconded. How do you wanna go forward with this, Yika? Don't let it die againnnn~

 

[Yikarur]

I'm waiting for the wiki :D

 

[KayLo!]

Well, gathering data has to come before the wiki anyway, so shouldn't we be working on that? At least figuring out what we have done and what still needs to be collected.

 

[Yikarur]

we need a platform where we can put in the gathered data.
Most things are already done.

we still need a format though =D
the advantage for a wiki is that we can list.. EVERYTHING woooooh.
I have so much illusion in my mind, I hope they can come true <__< xD

I'll make a new thread where we can gather data to put it into the wiki afterwards later.
still thinking about what we want to collect because one move alone can have a loooot of info

 

[KayLo!]

GDocs should be our initial gathering place imo. Easier and more organized than a thread, and then once the wiki's up (which could take a while at the rate it's going now), we can transfer all the info right over.

Exactly what data are we listing for each move? Once we answer that question, we can start bringing it all together in Docs so it'll be ready, organized, and most importantly, all in one place once the wiki's set up.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

exactly. find out exactly what we are gonna dis[play, get a google docs up to start gathering info -already have a few chars done between the members anyways- then people can start working on our own time to fill it in while the wiki gets set in place. lets do this :O

 

[Toomai]

Well personally I already have my move data set up in this format. It's a bit cramped though, so there are definitely better ideas.

The way I envision it, the setup would be something like this:

• First, pages such as [[Mario (SSBB)]]. It would list things like weight, falling speed, hurtboxes, dodge timing, etc.
• Under that, one page for each move, such as [[Mario (SSBB)/Forward smash]] or [[Mario (SSBB)/Side special]].
• Each page would have a table of "hard" data: damage, angle, knockback, timing, effect, and so on.
• Each page would probably also have a table of "soft" data: freeze frames, shieldstun, average KO percent, and that kind of post-calculation stuff. We could probably use parser functions to generate this automatically depending on how much experimental error there is.
• Chances are I'll throw my hitbox images up on the wiki, so they'd be there as well.
• For special moves and unusual standard attacks (and possibly every move, depending on interest), a block of text that explains its characteristics. Would include a table of relevant data values as well.

 

[Isatis]

We're 100% on a Wiki for this? Or no?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I'd prefer all wiki. Previous experience shows that it's better to do it direct to output format.

 

[Isatis]

http://www.siriusuplink.com/smashlab/index.php/Main_Page

 

[Yikarur]

mhhh
I thought about a table system.
not to put every move into a specific page.
like eh..

we have Mario
then we have frame data in table form.
then you can click on the move to get more in-depth information. (the individual move page)

got it? o:

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Set it up, and I'll start filling it in.

Leek Micropipette ftw

 

[rPSIvysaur]

how is this working out?

 

[Toomai]

In theory, things are set up enough that adventurous people can go in and start adding stuff by mimicking the format used on the existing pages. Probably the only setup thing left I need to do is activate image uploads, which probably none of you guys really need but I plan on using for hitbox images and miscallaneous eye candy.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

can anyone go in and just edit?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

*cough* so is this up and running?

 

[KayLo!]

I thought Yika might be the man to get it done, but I guess not!

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Ohhh, I didn't know there was a second project. I'm game for this, though it seems its future is uncertain. Is this going through?

 

[Stealth Raptor]

someone give me a spot to dump data and im ready to go

 

[Yikarur]

Patience, I'm super busy, my school career is in danger because of some stupid circumstances and stupid teachers and and and and and and and.
I come back to this when I feel safe ;___;
at least the roots are set now.

 

[Toomai]

can anyone go in and just edit?

Yup go ahead. Make an account first though.

Figure I'll put up some instructions here.

1. Don't have the link? Here ya go.
2. Make an account.
3. Make pages with data on them. Either use the Mario (SSBB) pages as a template (to get them either search or see Special:AllPages) or create a new page at Character (SSBB)/Raw data if you just want to put in numbers and let other people sort them out.
4. There are still some things left to be decided, like which frame bar format to use (both are currently in use on Mario's move pages). You can discuss them in this topic, make a new topic here, or use a talk page on the wiki.

Oh and we also need to decide if "Smash Lab Wiki" is a good enough name.

If "Smash Lab Wiki" isn't good enough for you we could do something spiffier like "Smash Bros. Knowledge Node", "Smash Lab Infobase", or even "Smashic Serendipity Centre".

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I like the bottom bar because it shows each single frame, but I think we should used filled boxes with outlines rather than x's and o's

 

[Stealth Raptor]

Yeah I likse the second one as its more practical but it looks a lot clunkier

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I like Smash Lab Wiki. Short sweet and to the point.

I also love that there's a leek in the logo. Makes me feel special.

I'm going to see if I can do ROB, ZSS, and TL soon. I gathered their frame data in the original project so I'll just stick to them.

I for one prefer the top frame bar, because it looks a lot sleeker and cleaner than the bottom one. Though, instead of x's and o's, coloured bars could be used instead to keep both the individual frame visualisation and the tidiness.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

will start filling samus in asap.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I like Smash Lab Wiki. Short sweet and to the point.

I also love that there's a leek in the logo. Makes me feel special.

I'm going to see if I can do ROB, ZSS, and TL soon. I gathered their frame data in the original project so I'll just stick to them.

I for one prefer the top frame bar, because it looks a lot sleeker and cleaner than the bottom one. Though, instead of x's and o's, coloured bars could be used instead to keep both the individual frame visualisation and the tidiness.

The bottom one is more robust. It more accurately represents the action. For example, using the pictoral sequences, we can visit each individual frame, find the exact frames from which inbetween occurs the charge and see the exact duration of hitboxes. It simply works better. Now the pictoral representations need a bit of work, but it's not hard at all, and it just works better.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Well, I agree that it more accurately represents the action. What I'm saying, however, is that the x's and o's look unnecessarily clunky. Their role could easily be filled in with simpler, colour-coded bars that take up less space and are less hard on the eyes, without sacrificing intuitiveness and readability.

 

[Toomai]

I'll see if I can produce something between "simple blocks of colour" and "distinct bricks of pics".

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Ok, well, here's kind of what I was thinking of.

{colsp=1}Colour|Meaning

|Lag

|Charge

|Hit

|Interrupt

So Mario's Down aerial's frame strip/bar/w/e would look like so-

I think it's still fairly readable, and if not, that can be solved by adding a small space between bars.

[collapse=spaced bar]

[/collapse]

 

[rPSIvysaur]

not very countable
I'll make something different

 

[DeLux]

Notation numbers on it for significant points?

 

[rPSIvysaur]

That would be tediously too much work IMO. We'd have to create images up to 100ish and most will hardly be used anyway :I

 

[Indigo Jeans]

By "notation numbers" he probably meant a number above whatever frame bar. That wouldn't be too hard, just a matter of spacing it correctly so the number and bar line up.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

In that case it will be easier, yes
Just make a graphic with a number line, above the squares

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Added in some notation.

Just to see what it looks like... and it looks iffy.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

that's so non-standard and needs lots of work

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Well of course it is. Hence the "Just to see what it looks like". It's just a mock up, something to try and work up from. :U

Here's a slightly cleaner mock up.

___5 7 9 1113_________25

The underscores and cramped look of the number could very easily be fixed in the wiki's editor I think.

 

[Toomai]

The underscores and cramped look of the number could very easily be fixed in the wiki's editor I think.

It's difficult, no matter what the interface is, to line up text with images. If you want to count frames in the strip - which I personally think isn't needed, since the numbers are in the table just above anyway - it would be possible to overlay a dot image over every tenth block or something.

EDIT: Tried to post this earlier but crashboards happened. New frame strip concept:

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I wasn't interested in counting frames in the first place, butt DeLux asked for numbers on significant frames, soooo I tried to do that. I was thinking the same thing, that people can look at the table then look at an unmarked strip and put two and two together, but w/e. As long as we get stuff done I guess.

 

[phi1ny3]

Well personally I already have my move data set up in this format. It's a bit cramped though, so there are definitely better ideas.

The way I envision it, the setup would be something like this:

• First, pages such as [[Mario (SSBB)]]. It would list things like weight, falling speed, hurtboxes, dodge timing, etc.
• Under that, one page for each move, such as [[Mario (SSBB)/Forward smash]] or [[Mario (SSBB)/Side special]].
• Each page would have a table of "hard" data: damage, angle, knockback, timing, effect, and so on.
• Each page would probably also have a table of "soft" data: freeze frames, shieldstun, average KO percent, and that kind of post-calculation stuff. We could probably use parser functions to generate this automatically depending on how much experimental error there is.
• Chances are I'll throw my hitbox images up on the wiki, so they'd be there as well.
• For special moves and unusual standard attacks (and possibly every move, depending on interest), a block of text that explains its characteristics. Would include a table of relevant data values as well.

This looks great, now I have a good idea of how the table should be set up.

Or are we not doing it this way?

Also, if I'm doing Lucario's, for damage, should I just put in the multipliers for aura, since clearly there's no set amount?