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You do realize that for fox this is the worst case scenario? He cannot waveshine her without activating the tumble animation. If you do a jab instead of an upsmash you can then followup with an upair (aka thundercombo)My best choice of approach is N-air shine. This owns ZSS at low percents. I also feel that if you waveshine her at low percents and your opponent doesn't tech you can up smash them just to keep the combo going and follow up. I suggest following up with a u-air, b-air, or n-air.
'cept boozerNair to Shine is a great option vs ZSS...
OH WAIT THAT'S FOX VS EVERY CHARACTER! Nair won't work because they CC? Mix it up and use Dair. GG
2.1 ike still gets put even in the same remote league as fox? I mean come on... I'm not gonna say he was bad or anything, but even his tourney results started to decline at the end of 2.1, go look at the thread for yourself. If that doesn't convince people he was generally overrated, what would?I'd love to see that character then. Of the Melee characters, no one hits that mark. 2.1 Lucario and Ike perhaps. Honestly about it. Someone is probably gonna say "BUT DK, BUT MARIO!" and they're just wrong lol
i dont think anyone has an advantage over him.Neko.... you're really underestimating Fox if you think there's any character in this game that has an advantage over him.
Are we talking about the same game here?well his aerials arent really laggy at all, first off. he can use a combination of his jab and up b to stay safe on shield, and both of those attacks lead straight into combos. alternatively he can space attacks very well to not get punished by fox's low grab range aerials, or he can just chew his shield up in general with bair or dair. all that spamming lasers is gonna do is fill up the bucket for GW, giving him yet another great defensive and offesnive option to overwhelm fox. GW could combo fox in melee, but his combos now are much more reliable and lead directly into kills and edgeguards any time that he lands one, and they take place at virtually any percent on fox. bottom line is that fox DOES have to get through the wall of GWs attacks. even if fox takes to his DD game and plays a more of a bait and punish game, hows he gonna dair or nair GW if GW can utlilt/ftilt those approches all day? GWs tilts have a lot less endlag than in melee (at least his ftilt does), and his smash attacks are also more effective as well. im not sayin this MU is a walk in the park for GW, dont get me wrong. but its not a walk in the park for fox either. GW is a whole different beast in PM than he is in melee. fox cant treat him the same because of how many options GW has opened up now, in between defensive, approach, and pressure tactics. the only asset that fox really out does GW in is his speed. GW has the same speed as falco, but a better WD. his projectiles isnt as universally applicable, but it does have a lot of use in detering foxes approach and approaching in return if fox wants to laser spam. bottom line is that all the things GW lacked in melee that made this MU so hard (and any other MU really) such as lack of approach options, lack of defensive options (plus a functioning shield), and lack of reliable, non laggy pressuring attacks have all been adressed. GW has a whole new set of tools, and this MU is not nearly the same as it was in melee.