Fox - Guide and Discussion Thread

[SSBPete]

you never specified it was on training mode!

 

[TANK64]

If they're getting comboed off the edge they DI toward the stage.

and if they're on Saffron, they DI away from the holes.

PWND!

(assuming we're talking about "stand" here)

 

[Sangoku]

Tell me how you would try to double shine someone when he's off the edge?

If double shining to something is actually possible you have to make things in your favor, which means the opponent should be the most "into" Fox before the first shine, not off the edge or other random things.

Whether he would DI the second shine is irrelevant (and I didn't do it off stage since I wanted to make a combo, so I thought it was obvious enough), since the question was about double shine cancels.

Please make sense next time.

 

[SSBPete]

i'd say it were possible if DK was slightly above fox, right in the middle

maybe being on an incline would make a difference too, say sector z, but thats just a guess

 

[TANK64]

@Sangoku, lol please get more mad next time...

I wasn't even addressing you. I was obv addressing that it is possible for training mode dummies to actually DI (not exactly a common occurrence but still). It's trivial and I was bringing it up as a joke more than anything.

And yea. you could start after walking half way into DK like you said "into," or the above thing seems like it would work also idk.

-Side note, Fox can shine grab DK with no dash. Super easy and fun. Can combo into or if the grab is off a edge.

I never have seen someone do it, so I assume most people don't know.

 

[Sangoku]

Pete: yeah in fact I think the best is having DK's feet into Fox's head. That's what I meant by into. I should have said in the same vertical plane or something. That's why having the first hit of uair helps.

Tank: sorry if I sounded mad, but you still shouldn't have assumed it .

Didn't know about the shine grab, do you also need to pop up DK first? Or do you need to be on the edge of the stage?

 

[TANK64]

Tested it:

If it's of an edge, DK can be standing or already popped up.

If it's on flat ground, it won't combo on standing DK- but popped up, you can shine>grab grab before he hits the ground

Side note: off the edge is a lot less chance of messing up. That's what I would stick with when using it. On platforms and off the edge stuff. And if DK is to far away from the edge, there's always shine>dash>grab/shine>dash>upSmash.

*runs to test shine>upSmash practicality on DK*

 

[ballin4life]

shine usmash is EZ on dk. try it on falcon

 

[TANK64]

^^you're right.

Not as spammable as Shinegrab, but useful if you're already too close to edge and DK is in that weird position above you

- and looks cool

and Falcon is too hard lol. (Maybe good for a training mode combo )

/predictable post, but didn't want to not answer...so there.

 

[Mahie]

How about practical stuff like shine lands and shine dancing?

Also do you guys ever use dair apart from the standing tech punish situation? I feel like any other use is escapable/punishable/avoidable.

 

[SSBPete]

^funny spikes

 

[TANK64]

^seriously. 2good.

@Funk, point blank shine grab on DK is very practical. That's why I brought it up, because I've never seen someone else do it.

also, who's playing fox these days, everyone? no one?

 

[SSBPete]

i'm now officially a fox main

my god have mercy on my soul

 

[Metà]

has anyone ever done a shine --> grab? seems like it might work, but idk

 

[ballin4life]

has anyone ever done a shine --> grab? seems like it might work, but idk

not sure if trolling


@Tank fox is for noobs i don't play him any more. it's all about FALCON now

 

[asianaussie]

what happened to your brief foray into LINK

 

[ciaza]

real men main samus

is it safe to say that everyone who is posting today is dateless for valentines day?

 

[Metà]

not sure if trolling


@Tank fox is for noobs i don't play him any more. it's all about FALCON now

i legitimately don't know why it wouldn't work. i mean like, what if you're on a sloped platform or something? if stupid **** like shine d-smash can work, why not shine to grab under the right conditions?

sorry i suck LOL

 

[asianaussie]

no, that's not what he meant...just look three or four posts above your post

 

[ballin4life]

what happened to your brief foray into LINK

ongoing. i need to break the habit of using usmash. when i play CPUs it works and it's a good combo move but it sucks against real people (ok, if you combo into it it might be ok but i'm talking about how i spam it to start combos LOL)

basically i'd need to practice link against real people to get any better

i legitimately don't know why it wouldn't work. i mean like, what if you're on a sloped platform or something? if stupid **** like shine d-smash can work, why not shine to grab under the right conditions?

sorry i suck LOL

what AA said. it's mentioned literally 2 posts above yours and about 5 times on this page of the thread.


other note: my shine utilt was on a CPU ... possibly the result of wonky CPU DI? I can't replicate it in training mode. someone TAS plz kthx

 

[Mahie]

@SSBPete : I meant situations where Dair is an optimal option. "funny spikes" don't sound too good to me.

Who's the best US Fox by the way? Just wondering.

 

[TANK64]

Shine>falling dair off of a platform when they're really close to you (so fair/nair will send them behind you). Just ff so you don't try to use all the hits. Just a real quick drill>jab/grab or whatever.

Unless you meant something stand-alone, not in combo. (Approaching a parry happy Yoshi...)

Could have sworn I had made this post yesterday. Guess I'm dream posting again o__O.

 

[Battlecow]

is it safe to say that everyone who is posting today is dateless for valentines day?

NOT ME

da-dadedadedaaaa de daaaa de daaaa

Felt like I needed to share that.

 

[ballin4life]

NOT ME

da-dadedadedaaaa de daaaa de daaaa

Felt like I needed to share that.

yeah but that makes sense:

I'll be blunt here- every woman I've every been with has stated, in no uncertain terms, that I am the best lover she's ever had. Also, I spent most of my very young childhood (3-9 years old) watching hard-core pornography. Coincidence? I think not. I also think that my own kids deserve the same joy and fulfillment that this has brought me, and your kids do too.

 

[Battlecow]

Bahahahaha

I totally forgot that post

I cannot believe to this day how seriously they took me.

 

[Mahie]

Shine>falling dair off of a platform when they're really close to you (so fair/nair will send them behind you). Just ff so you don't try to use all the hits. Just a real quick drill>jab/grab or whatever.

Unless you meant something stand-alone, not in combo. (Approaching a parry happy Yoshi...)

Could have sworn I had made this post yesterday. Guess I'm dream posting again o__O.

That sounds really easy to DI out of.

But I agree that it ***** Parry happy Yoshies. I had forgotten about that use, haven't played Sheer in forever.

 

[TANK64]

Shine>falling dair off of a platform when they're really close to you (so fair/nair will send them behind you). Just ff so you don't try to use all the hits. Just a real quick drill>jab/grab or whatever.

That's why I said the ff, so it's super fast, and not a slow/all hit drill.

Just don't miss the z-cancel on the ff dair

I've had success with this as a follow up, as opposed to fair/bair/nair- where they almost certainly are going behind you- which leads to maybe a techchase or back to neutral ground.

I'd say try it out, and see what you get.

 

[Battlecow]

Best US fox is isai (duh)

Best US fox main? uh... hard to say, so many people play fox and pika and falcon or any combination thereof. I believe Firo and sensei could be safely considered fox "mains" in the truest sense of the word. Star King mains... probably pika, right? If it's fox, then he's in the running too; his fox is good.

Fox's dair spike is pretty optimal in some situations IMO-although I never see it used at high levels so maybe not. They can't LDI it, which is a point in its favor, and it's pretty guaranteed in certain situations--but you usually have other fairly failsafe options in those situations as well, so yeah.

 

[TANK64]

Yea I was thinking Sensei for "fox main."

and of course there's Isai and StarKing. They are good at this game.

and yea fox doesn't have bad moves. Just good ones, and then even better ones lol.

@Ballin', you're right- I've been Falconified

@Pete, All these "Yoshi Mains" turning fox >___>

@Meta, lolol wtf dude.

 

[ballin4life]

Bahahahaha

I totally forgot that post

I cannot believe to this day how seriously they took me.

yeah i would say your troll-fu is strong, but trolling the debate hall is the equivalent of beating up a five year old ...



anyway so I played Fox vs Jiggs on DL today and got 3 stocked. still don't understand why everyone thinks this matchup is huge fox advantage. Basically what he did was use the DL platforms to stay above me the whole time and then try to dair -> combo -> gimp. Now, this guy I was playing is actually pretty good (better than me with a lot of the characters), but my Fox won every other match except that one (did win by 1 stock against Jiggs on Hyrule, but had to come back from being down 3 stocks to 1).

I am starting to think also that I'm better with Falcon considering that I mostly dominated with Falcon (besides getting 4 stocked once in DL falcon dittos). Falcon just feels way easier to play.

 

[clubbadubba]

ballin my guess would be you're impatient in fox vs jiggs. jiggs has a really tough time approaching fox, so if you are just patient as fox its tough for jiggs to win.

 

[SSBPete]

if your fox is losing to a jiggs you're not using enough lasers

@tank - yoshi can't beat falcon/fox/pika and kirby to some extent so my only choice was to fight fire with fire

 

[Battlecow]

Who were you playing ballin'?

IDK about that MU anymore. I play almost no jiggs these days, so I don't think I get an opinion.

 

[asianaussie]

if your fox is losing to a jiggs then you're not using the B button enough

pete your yoshi is just hella weird, you should have way more trouble with kirby than fox and probably falcon, i remember when my fox would like 4 stock your yoshi and then you would 4 stock my kirby next game >_<

 

[ballin4life]

@Pete - what good are lasers against someone who is always on the top platform on DL?

@battlecow - guy from school, played him a few times 2 years ago, then he hit me up to play again today.

 

[clubbadubba]

point of lasers is to make him approach you. If he wants to sit on top of dl you could go to one side jump up and shoot lasers until he comes to you. If he sits there and tries to jump and avoid lasers you're bound to hit some pew pews eventually.

 

[ballin4life]

what is the good of making him approach me - in particular what do I do against approaches from above?

on DL I don't have room to maneuver to set up a horizontal combo

 

[clubbadubba]

at some point he has to come down. Make him miss his dair and then capitalize. If you do get dair'd, just DI out of it. There is a reason that you rarely see high level jiggs players resort to floating high and trying to dair.

 

[Mahie]

@Tank : I really don't think that would work, FF or not. I'd grab you out of that, it's not like I've never used Dair in my life, you know, I'm just starting to think it's pretty useless, like all the other drills. FF Nair/Fair/Bair would be much better, or FF one hit Uair. If you're going for a shine, just do :

Shine -> Shield Drop -> Fair or something.
or
Shine -> Shield Drop -> Laser -> Whatever.

@Ballin : If she's on either side platform, get on the other one, if she's on the top one, get on either side platform and space some aerials/lasers.
Shine Landing will help you get to her quicker, and if you hit her with it, well, she'll go back down, if you don't, you'll get to shield pressure her or grab instantly, which means you can probably at least get some lasers and a couple aerials before she lands again.

 

[TANK64]

alrighty BRO.