SCOTU
Smash Hero
In what looks to be an ongoing series of character discussions, I invited the Fox Back room to a discussion on the Fox vs MK matchup.
Members present:
SCOTU (SCOTU42)
Dojo. (Anthony2231)
Overswarm (Ragnark1)
718_ROOKI3 (ZB x ROOkie)
Lightning93 (LIGHT9393)
Zhamy (JZ Sez)
A6M Zero (A6MZeroSmash)
M@V (M@V)
Colaya (Colaya1990)
Synopsis:
MK and Fox have similar KO power, but MK has the ability to gimp fox for early kills.
For Fox to win, he must shoot a few lasers to force the MK to approach, deal with the approach somehow, and keep running away.
Fox doesn't really have too many options to deal w/ MK's approach, but dashing towards the MK approach, and shielding/dodging and attempting to punish is the best bet.
If MK gets ahead of fox in percent, he can plaink, which fox has litterally no good responses to.
as far as stages go, MK is fine on any stage, but Halberd is the best bet for fox. Low ceiling, good firing range for laser, can recover through the stage, making him a bit harder to gimp.
Overral consesnus either 70:30 or 65:35 in favor of MK. Probably 68:32.
Full Chat:
Members present:
SCOTU (SCOTU42)
Dojo. (Anthony2231)
Overswarm (Ragnark1)
718_ROOKI3 (ZB x ROOkie)
Lightning93 (LIGHT9393)
Zhamy (JZ Sez)
A6M Zero (A6MZeroSmash)
M@V (M@V)
Colaya (Colaya1990)
Synopsis:
MK and Fox have similar KO power, but MK has the ability to gimp fox for early kills.
For Fox to win, he must shoot a few lasers to force the MK to approach, deal with the approach somehow, and keep running away.
Fox doesn't really have too many options to deal w/ MK's approach, but dashing towards the MK approach, and shielding/dodging and attempting to punish is the best bet.
If MK gets ahead of fox in percent, he can plaink, which fox has litterally no good responses to.
as far as stages go, MK is fine on any stage, but Halberd is the best bet for fox. Low ceiling, good firing range for laser, can recover through the stage, making him a bit harder to gimp.
Overral consesnus either 70:30 or 65:35 in favor of MK. Probably 68:32.
Full Chat:
Code:
8:28:03 PM Anthony2231: MK vs Fox time eh?
8:28:09 PM SCOTU42: yeah
8:28:16 PM SCOTU42: i'm sending out invites to everyone now
8:28:23 PM Anthony2231: Sounds good.
8:28:25 PM ZB x R00kie: Whatz good yall
8:28:42 PM JZ Sez: Still waiting on people, it seems.
8:28:59 PM SCOTU42: yeah, i'm just inviting the whole fox group
8:29:19 PM ZB x R00kie: That's good
8:29:33 PM JZ Sez: I assume we'll probably do introductions once everyone gets here.
8:29:57 PM SCOTU42: that was my assumption as well
8:30:04 PM SCOTU42: i also have no real way of knowing who's coming
8:30:20 PM ZB x R00kie: Thats ight
8:30:22 PM LIGHT9393: is this for the metaknight discussion?
8:30:33 PM SCOTU42: this is for the MK discussion
8:30:41 PM LIGHT9393: okay when shall we start?
8:30:48 PM LIGHT9393: it's good I was on.
8:30:54 PM SCOTU42: when it looks like no more ppl are joining
8:31:08 PM JZ Sez: Hm, Kheldar went idle.
8:31:14 PM LIGHT9393: i was just watching FLAMEDASH in action
8:31:18 PM SCOTU42: oh god
8:31:26 PM LIGHT9393: A6M's video
8:31:32 PM LIGHT9393: freaking amazing
8:31:38 PM LIGHT9393: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EywoFXvCv28
8:31:43 PM LIGHT9393: i couldnt take it
8:31:47 PM SCOTU42: don't get me started on how stupid that vid is lol
8:31:48 PM JZ Sez: It's funny stuff, but I'm going to push for focus.
8:31:56 PM LIGHT9393: alright im ready
8:31:57 PM JZ Sez: Stay on topic, please.
8:32:04 PM SCOTU42: ok, who've we got here now?
8:32:06 PM SCOTU42: intros?
8:32:13 PM SCOTU42: Obviously, I'm SCOTU
8:32:14 PM LIGHT9393: what shall we start on first?
8:32:22 PM JZ Sez: First, we wait for more people.
8:32:25 PM LIGHT9393: I'm Lightning93
8:32:33 PM ZB x R00kie: Obviously im Rookie...live in NY
8:32:49 PM Anthony2231: I'm Dojo from Texas.
8:32:57 PM JZ Sez: Zhamy from NorCalifornia.
8:33:10 PM LIGHT9393: I live in California
8:33:13 PM LIGHT9393: Bay Area
8:33:13 PM SCOTU42: I'm from Michigan, btw
8:33:22 PM JZ Sez: ****, seriously, Light?
8:33:24 PM Anthony2231: You all Fox mains?
8:33:27 PM ZB x R00kie: **** we got the whole country in one chat
8:33:35 PM JZ Sez: Apparently, everyone but you, Dojo.
8:33:43 PM Anthony2231: Ah, ok.
8:33:47 PM JZ Sez: Also, your MK is hilariously good. Just throwing that out.
8:33:47 PM ZB x R00kie: Yea I main fox and fox only in tourny
8:33:56 PM Anthony2231: Hah, thank you.
8:34:03 PM ZB x R00kie: Dojo...the metaknight?
8:34:06 PM LIGHT9393: I'm a Fox main
8:34:17 PM SCOTU42: I second Fox and main MK
8:34:19 PM LIGHT9393: Zhammy you live in bay area?
8:34:30 PM Anthony2231: Yeah thats me. XD
8:35:21 PM ZB x R00kie: Yea I 2nd marth but im convinced fox can actually take an entire tourny
8:35:32 PM JZ Sez: Pikachu wut.
8:35:38 PM Anthony2231: Hehe.
8:35:39 PM ZB x R00kie: People call me crazy in NY but I've proved it
8:35:44 PM SCOTU42: kinda looks like people are not comming anymore. If anyone knows someone else's AIM that's online, let us know
8:35:45 PM ZB x R00kie: Pika *********
8:35:51 PM ZB x R00kie: Lmao
8:36:00 PM JZ Sez: M@V?
8:36:25 PM SCOTU42: M@v's not online, and won't be for another hour or something?
8:36:27 PM JZ Sez: Ah.
8:36:45 PM JZ Sez: Seems to be about it, then.
8:36:50 PM SCOTU42: i guess we have enough ppl then
8:36:55 PM ZB x R00kie: Werd
8:36:58 PM SCOTU42: sucks when it's overcrowded anyways
8:37:10 PM SCOTU42: I guess we should start with the most basic stuff
8:37:16 PM JZ Sez: I was hoping for another MK or two, but whatever. Should be good.
8:37:24 PM SCOTU42: well, i got Dojo <_<
8:37:31 PM SCOTU42: want me to ask OS?
8:37:32 PM ZB x R00kie: Werd
8:37:45 PM SCOTU42: clearly OS isn't as good as Dojo
8:37:47 PM JZ Sez: If you want, but I think we're fine. It's DOJO.
8:37:53 PM SCOTU42: yeah
8:37:54 PM JZ Sez: I mean, seriously. It's DOJO.
8:37:55 PM SCOTU42: that's what i thought
8:38:13 PM JZ Sez: Basics of the matchup, then?
8:38:22 PM SCOTU42: so, you guys agree that MK has an advantage on Fox?
8:38:27 PM JZ Sez: Yes.
8:38:29 PM Anthony2231: ^^
8:38:30 PM SCOTU42: or do you think it's even/ fox adv?
8:38:53 PM JZ Sez: I don't think anyone thinks it's Fox advantage.
8:39:07 PM LIGHT9393: at best its even
8:39:10 PM JZ Sez: At least, I hope not. That would save us a lot of arguing.
8:39:11 PM SCOTU42: Fenrir must not be online then
8:39:17 PM JZ Sez: LOL
8:39:27 PM ZB x R00kie: I would call it 55-45 MK
8:39:38 PM SCOTU42: hold on
8:39:51 PM SCOTU42: before we start throwing out numbers, i think we should go over the basics of the matchup
8:39:54 PM JZ Sez: I think reasoning should come before numbers.
8:39:56 PM SCOTU42: the things that make the numbers
8:40:11 PM LIGHT9393: ability to kill
8:40:13 PM LIGHT9393: ?
8:40:33 PM SCOTU42: Fox's Usmash out of shield does do a fair job of KOing MK over the top, his weakest death zone
8:40:36 PM SCOTU42: however
8:40:41 PM ZB x R00kie: Mk dies at 100 flat with di from a new upsmash
8:40:58 PM SCOTU42: if by flat, do you mean, none, or horizontal?
8:41:04 PM JZ Sez: Kill ability favors MK, if only slightly. Gimp wise? MK wins by miles. At high percents? Fox doesn't do too badly, but MK has a bunch of options too. Fox is light as hell.
8:41:14 PM ZB x R00kie: No I mean 100%
8:41:24 PM M@V: Yo
8:41:27 PM JZ Sez: Who is this?
8:41:27 PM M@V: its M@v
8:41:29 PM JZ Sez: Ah.
8:41:29 PM ZB x R00kie: Bad di mk dies at 97
8:41:29 PM JZ Sez: Hey.
8:41:37 PM JZ Sez: Introductions again?
8:41:43 PM JZ Sez: I'm Zhamy.
8:41:49 PM M@V: was at chillis. Yum
8:41:53 PM JZ Sez: Scotu42 is obviously Scotu.
8:42:03 PM JZ Sez: Anthony2231 is Dojo (Yes, that Dojo)
8:42:10 PM JZ Sez: Rookie is rookie, light93 is lightning.
8:42:19 PM M@V: Hey dojo honored you can join us.
8:42:25 PM Anthony2231: No prob.
8:42:30 PM SCOTU42: I've renamed all my contacts so when i post the chatlog, it'll look like our swf names
8:42:34 PM M@V: can you make it to CO4?
8:42:37 PM JZ Sez: Okay.
8:42:38 PM M@V: COT4?
8:42:43 PM JZ Sez: Back to kill ability?
8:42:47 PM Anthony2231: Looking good so far. :-)
8:42:52 PM Anthony2231: Lets stay on track though.
8:43:12 PM SCOTU42: ok, so Fox KO's MK at around 100 on neutral stages w/ usmash
8:43:22 PM M@V: Mind if i invite a friend of mine? hes as smart as I am with matchups
8:43:27 PM SCOTU42: who?
8:43:32 PM LIGHT9393: yes, and he has a grab release for that upsmash too
8:43:33 PM ZB x R00kie: Yoshis 107
8:43:41 PM M@V: guy named Colaya, hes actually with me xD
8:43:42 PM ZB x R00kie: Yoshis has the highest rook
8:43:53 PM ZB x R00kie: Wait
8:44:00 PM ZB x R00kie: The grab release has a down side
8:44:03 PM JZ Sez: ?
8:44:04 PM SCOTU42: yeah, invite him
8:44:24 PM M@V: ok he will be on in a bit.
8:44:27 PM ZB x R00kie: Im sure u all know that fox doesn't pick up mk off the florr
8:44:31 PM Anthony2231: Mk can be grab released directly to the floor.
8:44:41 PM ZB x R00kie: No he cant
8:44:45 PM Anthony2231: So grab release to Upsmash won't happen.
8:44:49 PM ZB x R00kie: Listen
8:44:57 PM ZB x R00kie: It can if....
8:45:10 PM ZB x R00kie: The player presses the jump input as they try to release
8:45:20 PM ZB x R00kie: Which causes air release
8:45:28 PM LIGHT9393: yep
8:45:33 PM JZ Sez: Yes indeed.
8:45:39 PM ZB x R00kie: If no jump input is registered then no air release will occur
8:45:51 PM SCOTU42: you're saying on the grabee, right?
8:45:53 PM ZB x R00kie: I got upset when I found that out
8:45:59 PM ZB x R00kie: I was testin and found it
8:45:59 PM LIGHT9393: lol
8:46:08 PM LIGHT9393: it only works if the player is off the floor
8:46:08 PM ZB x R00kie: Yes
8:46:11 PM JZ Sez: Yeah.
8:46:13 PM SCOTU42: cause the best way to break out of a grab is to mash back and forth on the cstick
8:46:16 PM LIGHT9393: which has been previously stated
8:46:24 PM SCOTU42: assuming you have cstick = smash
8:46:39 PM LIGHT9393: does the c-stick activate a jump release as well?
8:46:45 PM SCOTU42: no
8:46:48 PM JZ Sez: Not if you're mashing back/forth
8:46:51 PM ZB x R00kie: No
8:46:56 PM SCOTU42: and it takes assloads of frames off the grab length
8:47:02 PM SCOTU42: ASSLOADS
8:47:09 PM SCOTU42: so it's efficient, and doesn't force airbreak
8:47:39 PM LIGHT9393: so then in brief the grab release is not reliable
8:47:46 PM Anthony2231: ^
8:47:51 PM JZ Sez: Really, landing Usmash is just as difficult on MK as it is on any other character.
8:47:53 PM LIGHT9393: but we can still get smashes in with a nicely aimed d-air
8:47:58 PM ZB x R00kie: Well hope ur mk opponent is stupid
8:47:59 PM LIGHT9393: of course
8:48:00 PM JZ Sez: There are no real tricks that Fox has specifically against MK
8:48:08 PM ZB x R00kie: And hope for a air release
8:48:26 PM M@V: dont forget all of fox's upsmash options though: Running upsmash, boost smash, JC upsmash, dair upsmash, etc
8:48:32 PM LIGHT9393: his up-tilt lock seems to propel meta-knight at convenient angles
8:48:59 PM LIGHT9393: leads nicely into another grab
8:49:05 PM SCOTU42: the dashing shield> JC usmash is like, the only safe way to land a usmash against MK
8:49:09 PM SCOTU42: sometimes dashing usmash
8:49:26 PM ZB x R00kie: And since air release isn't guaranteed my best thought is to pummel into down throw cuz it does the most damage from the throws
8:49:28 PM JZ Sez: MK has the advantage in killing, especially gimping.
8:49:33 PM M@V: Boost smash is the strongest, but its easy to see coming
8:49:41 PM LIGHT9393: does up-smash trade with an up-b?
8:49:51 PM JZ Sez: Usmash trades with the weak hit of Shuttle Loop.
8:49:52 PM LIGHT9393: hyphen smash?
8:50:01 PM JZ Sez: Sorry, outprioritizes.
8:50:03 PM SCOTU42: never call it a hyphen smash again.
8:50:07 PM LIGHT9393: lol
8:50:09 PM JZ Sez: But that's never going to happen.
8:50:19 PM JZ Sez: Or rarely, at least.
8:50:36 PM SCOTU42: ok, Fox can start comboing MK off the dair into a usmash faster than most characters, but at higher percent for dair>dsmash than most characters
8:50:39 PM LIGHT9393: I usually refer boost smashing to the "snake silde" tech
8:50:50 PM LIGHT9393: yes
8:51:02 PM SCOTU42: well, the smash lab is going to release an official terms list, where none of those terms appear XD
8:51:12 PM LIGHT9393: lol
8:51:12 PM SCOTU42: well, Boost Smash is in it
8:51:25 PM LIGHT9393: and that refers too a sliding up-smash?
8:51:31 PM M@V: yeah.
8:51:34 PM JZ Sez: I find that Dair>Dsmash is less reliable with very good DI from the MK player.
8:51:41 PM M@V: its when you cancel a dash attack into an upsmash
8:51:44 PM JZ Sez: It just doesn't kill like it feels like it should.
8:51:44 PM SCOTU42: anywyas, Fox can't dair>dsmash MK until over 60%
8:51:57 PM M@V: whenever you see someone sliding and chaging an upsmash, its a boost smash
8:52:03 PM M@V: chargeing*
8:52:07 PM LIGHT9393: alright
8:52:22 PM SCOTU42: previously known as "DACUS" or "Snakedashing"
8:52:29 PM SCOTU42: or "Mortar Sliding"
8:52:32 PM SCOTU42: but this is off topic
8:52:36 PM LIGHT9393: yes yes many terms
8:52:39 PM SCOTU42: dair>dsmash blows
8:52:43 PM SCOTU42: against MK
8:52:55 PM SCOTU42: it's practically worthless
8:53:02 PM ZB x R00kie: Nooooooooooo
8:53:07 PM LIGHT9393: due to mk's easy recovery correct?
8:53:10 PM ZB x R00kie: Its good
8:53:11 PM JZ Sez: It's not worthless.
8:53:19 PM ZB x R00kie: Hear me out real quick
8:53:22 PM M@V: Yeah you could kill MK MAD early with boost smash
8:53:23 PM M@V: but
8:53:27 PM M@V: its far too risky
8:53:35 PM JZ Sez: The horizontal trajectory doesn't screw his recovery at all, it's more difficult to land (longer), but it still does a decent amount of damage at that percent and resets spacing if you need it.
8:54:04 PM SCOTU42: Dair>Dsmash STARTS comboing with a fresh dair full hits at 54% BEFORE the dair
8:54:05 PM ZB x R00kie: Dair to dsmash possible shield poke now mk is off the map...standing laser as he recovers to get a couple lasers off...refreshes move set now whip his ***
8:54:38 PM SCOTU42: ok, i guess it's not bad
8:54:44 PM JZ Sez: It's not worthless, by any means.
8:54:47 PM SCOTU42: what i meant was that it's not particularly applicable
8:54:52 PM LIGHT9393: you still have to take in cosnideration how to restart your approach
8:54:55 PM JZ Sez: But it's not "good" in the sense that Fox has other options that are "good."
8:55:07 PM SCOTU42: i mean, for sure, when it works, do it
8:55:11 PM JZ Sez: Worthless would be something like Dair>Fsmash.
8:55:16 PM SCOTU42: but it doesn't work for a very large range of %s
8:55:22 PM LIGHT9393: at which percent is d-air>upsmash land/
8:55:25 PM LIGHT9393: ?
8:55:29 PM JZ Sez: Does Dair>Dsmash change the matchup numbers? No.
8:55:36 PM M@V: Pretty high I thinl
8:55:37 PM JZ Sez: IIRC, 87%+ or some silly number like that.
8:55:40 PM LIGHT9393: but it is not worthless
8:55:43 PM M@V: but dont forget if they trip
8:55:44 PM SCOTU42: it's 71
8:55:46 PM JZ Sez: I haven't studied my numbers in forever.
8:55:50 PM M@V: 100% guaranteed kill
8:56:06 PM SCOTU42: at 71% fresh dair, all hits, usmash combos at 71% before hit
8:56:13 PM SCOTU42: which means that it's really like 90
8:56:22 PM SCOTU42: at which point, it does KO
8:56:25 PM M@V: key word: All hits
8:56:32 PM JZ Sez: What about from the MK side?
8:56:42 PM JZ Sez: Shuttle Loop, Nair, Dsmash, and gimps.
8:56:46 PM M@V: Down smash is pretty early
8:56:47 PM M@V: but
8:56:49 PM SCOTU42: MK has this nice little KO combo called the dsmash > dair
8:56:54 PM M@V: I usually get owned by gimps
8:56:56 PM LIGHT9393: his d-smash sends us at a weird and gimpable angle
8:57:02 PM JZ Sez: Which do the worst to Fox; which are salvagable?
8:57:12 PM JZ Sez: Dsmash, I find, completely ***** Fox's recovery to hell and back.
8:57:16 PM M@V: Gimping is by far the best method to kill fox
8:57:22 PM SCOTU42: well, yeah
8:57:26 PM SCOTU42: but you need the fox offstage
8:57:38 PM SCOTU42: aerial shuttle loop and dsmash have that more than covered
8:57:39 PM M@V: Dsmash is the best way to do that
8:57:50 PM ZB x R00kie: Just mindgame a rising fair
8:57:56 PM JZ Sez: Firefox becomes basically worthless below the stage. Rising Fair is your best bet.
8:57:58 PM ZB x R00kie: Best bet
8:58:04 PM JZ Sez: Rookie and I think alike. <3
8:58:14 PM M@V: theres only so much you can mindgame
8:58:35 PM JZ Sez: Shine stalling isn't worthless here, but it's less so than you'd imagine. MK can just scoot up to you and whack you some more.
8:58:38 PM LIGHT9393: also MK's throws travel across the stage correct?
8:58:49 PM JZ Sez: Dash->grab?
8:58:49 PM JZ Sez: Yes.
8:59:07 PM SCOTU42: oh yeah, his dthrow and fthrow totally set you up for gayage
8:59:12 PM Anthony2231: ^
8:59:25 PM JZ Sez: Fthrow?
8:59:26 PM LIGHT9393: yeah shine stalling hasn't served me as well as i could have hoped for in the past
8:59:27 PM Anthony2231: From dthrow we can do alot of **** to get you offstage
8:59:35 PM JZ Sez: Dthrow is just ****. It always is.
8:59:45 PM ZB x R00kie: Did anyone know that firefox dair and nair and beat tornado?
8:59:45 PM LIGHT9393: i've seen people able to chain a d-throw?
8:59:56 PM ZB x R00kie: Can* beat tornado
8:59:57 PM SCOTU42: dair is inconsistant at beating tornado
8:59:59 PM JZ Sez: Yes, but Dair isn't reliable.
9:00:01 PM M@V: I want to point out from my experience: GTFO the ledge asap if your on it
9:00:07 PM JZ Sez: Dropping a Nair is your best bet.
9:00:07 PM Anthony2231: I can do a nair and if you airdodge it, I can footstool a dair and it's trajectory will send you off at an angle
9:00:12 PM M@V: Mk has so many ways to stage spike you it isnt even funny
9:00:13 PM Anthony2231: And I can follow up from there
9:00:30 PM ZB x R00kie: Yes GTFO the ledge is right
9:00:32 PM Anthony2231: With fair dair nair
9:00:33 PM ZB x R00kie: We do think alike
9:00:36 PM JZ Sez: Long story short: Stay onstage if at all possible, don't try the stupid edgeguarding stuff.
9:00:39 PM ZB x R00kie: Nice
9:00:52 PM M@V: play it safe edgeguarding: blaster
9:00:58 PM SCOTU42: Fox basically HAS to let MK get back to the stage
9:01:02 PM Anthony2231: ^
9:01:05 PM M@V: dont risk eating a backwards shuttle loop.
9:01:06 PM ZB x R00kie: Never recover below a stage against mk
9:01:06 PM Anthony2231: Don't chase him
9:01:09 PM JZ Sez: What scotu said.
9:01:12 PM Anthony2231: Ever.
9:01:14 PM ZB x R00kie: Or mk dair will **** u
9:01:16 PM Anthony2231: Offstage.
9:01:17 PM LIGHT9393: stay away from the edge also while mk recovers
9:01:26 PM ZB x R00kie: Just laser
9:01:33 PM JZ Sez: What trades/beats glide attack?
9:01:35 PM ZB x R00kie: On stage
9:01:43 PM M@V: When you chase MK offstage, Your entering his realm and giving him a massive advantage
9:01:43 PM Anthony2231: Nair trades with it.
9:01:44 PM JZ Sez: Also, I will BRB. Have to do "real life" stuff.
9:01:44 PM LIGHT9393: his tornado and loop can catch you off guard if you're lasering
9:02:04 PM LIGHT9393: if you're too close to the edge that is
9:02:06 PM SCOTU42: Nair is the best option against glide attack usually
9:02:12 PM SCOTU42: or usmash
9:02:21 PM M@V: I try to stay away from mk gliding
9:02:22 PM LIGHT9393: i usually try for the upsmash
9:02:26 PM M@V: I dont even risk it
9:02:38 PM SCOTU42: well, often times you're in the air against a gliding MK
9:02:39 PM M@V: let him fly by and pew pew pew him
9:02:42 PM SCOTU42: so you have to nair
9:02:56 PM LIGHT9393: if you can learn to time it right i'm sure you can trade with it
9:03:06 PM M@V: or airdodge if possible
9:03:15 PM M@V: but watch for a followup if you do
9:03:21 PM SCOTU42: NAIRDODGE?!?!?
9:03:25 PM Anthony2231: Yeah. Airdodging it can be dangerous.
9:03:35 PM SCOTU42: /bad puns
9:03:38 PM M@V: like i said , be ready for a followup
9:03:38 PM ZB x R00kie: I challenge glide all the time bcuz upsmash cancels it
9:03:48 PM M@V: ESPECIALLY if MK is near the ground
9:04:00 PM LIGHT9393: yes exactly
9:04:03 PM Anthony2231: Try forcing a glide attack.
9:04:12 PM M@V: one of my favorite things to do whenever i play mk is the glide attack cancelled into anything
9:04:43 PM Anthony2231: If you shield the shuttle loop, get in his face with the nair. You'll either hit him out of glide, or if it trades he enters free fall and you can follow up.
9:04:53 PM SCOTU42: how about we move on to approaching now?
9:05:07 PM M@V: dont
9:05:13 PM Anthony2231: ^
9:05:21 PM M@V: that simple. DONT
9:05:23 PM Anthony2231: Fox can't approach MK. Simple as that.
9:05:33 PM SCOTU42: MK's approach on fox <_<
9:05:34 PM M@V: blaster like a mad man to get him to you
9:05:46 PM SCOTU42: actually usually blastering exactly once is enough.
9:05:58 PM M@V: Mk approaches, just about anything. SH fair, sh dair, glide attack, tornado
9:06:05 PM M@V: etc.
9:06:16 PM SCOTU42: MK mainly uses the tornado when you're in the air/platform
9:06:26 PM SCOTU42: it's not really a general purpose approach, that i'm aware of
9:06:41 PM M@V: ive seen people try it, so be readu woth your nair
9:06:46 PM M@V: ready with*
9:06:50 PM ZB x R00kie: Shdl till he appraoches
9:06:55 PM M@V: ^
9:06:57 PM SCOTU42: well, fox doesn't really have any DPs to beat tornado if he shields it
9:06:58 PM M@V: pretty much
9:07:04 PM M@V: Upsmash
9:07:14 PM SCOTU42: usmash isn't a DP <_<
9:07:24 PM SCOTU42: it'd be broken if it were lol
9:07:29 PM M@V: lol true
9:07:35 PM M@V: forgive me, but DP=?
9:07:36 PM SCOTU42: well, it'd be a lot more like the shuttle loop, actually
9:07:39 PM SCOTU42: Dragon Punch
9:07:43 PM M@V: ah
9:07:44 PM SCOTU42: invincible until it hits
9:07:49 PM M@V: my bad
9:07:59 PM SCOTU42: i.e. marth up-b or MK, grounded up b
9:08:02 PM M@V: The main thing ive noticed with tornado punishing
9:08:09 PM SCOTU42: jiggs' rest XD
9:08:13 PM M@V: Say mk trys to tornado you in the ait
9:08:16 PM M@V: air*
9:08:22 PM M@V: you get out before its over
9:08:27 PM M@V: You get a free upsmash
9:08:33 PM SCOTU42: sorta...?
9:08:41 PM SCOTU42: you don't really fall fast enough
9:08:42 PM M@V: Unless he lands on a platform
9:08:54 PM M@V: only if you get out early
9:09:00 PM SCOTU42: and only from the side
9:09:01 PM M@V: if you get stuck in it, you cant punish
9:09:04 PM SCOTU42: which is stupid
9:09:12 PM LIGHT9393: and the best way to escape a tornado in general would be?
9:09:20 PM SCOTU42: smash DI Upwards
9:09:23 PM SCOTU42: up/out
9:09:27 PM SCOTU42: up/side*
9:09:28 PM Anthony2231: up diagonally
9:09:29 PM M@V: actually, if your directly in the center of the tornado
9:09:36 PM LIGHT9393: as diagnolly
9:09:38 PM M@V: shine works O_o
9:09:44 PM LIGHT9393: oh nice to know
9:09:54 PM M@V: you have to be like directly in the top part though
9:10:07 PM SCOTU42: that's like, less consistant than the dair lol
9:10:07 PM LIGHT9393: well at least it gives you a better option
9:10:25 PM M@V: shine is one of your fastest moves
9:10:29 PM LIGHT9393: how often will a metaknight be approaching with tornado however?
9:10:30 PM M@V: what is it like 304frames?
9:10:35 PM M@V: 3-4?
9:10:37 PM SCOTU42: 3
9:10:44 PM SCOTU42: it might be a dp, not sure
9:10:50 PM SCOTU42: haven't actually tested it yet
9:10:53 PM M@V: frame 1 is
9:10:56 PM SCOTU42: my equipment's at school
9:10:57 PM M@V: Ive seen it
9:11:11 PM M@V: i think frame one is invincibility
9:11:12 PM SCOTU42: frame 2 would have to be as well
9:11:21 PM SCOTU42: and i'm not sure about frame 2
9:11:23 PM M@V: dont quote me on it.
9:11:33 PM M@V: Check it out when you get back scotu
9:11:34 PM Anthony2231: Lol you guys have your frames down. XD
9:11:42 PM M@V: Thank scotu for that
9:11:49 PM SCOTU42: I am like head of the smash lab <_<
9:11:57 PM LIGHT9393: lol
9:12:03 PM M@V: And I only know the frames for shine and uptilt, foxs two fastest moves
9:12:09 PM M@V: 3 and 4 =P
9:12:09 PM SCOTU42: Jab
9:12:12 PM M@V: and jab
9:12:15 PM M@V: sorry lol
9:12:18 PM LIGHT9393: jab?
9:12:22 PM LIGHT9393: oh beat me too it
9:12:25 PM LIGHT9393: to*
9:12:25 PM SCOTU42: jab is frame 2, utilt and shine are 3
9:12:31 PM JZ Sez: What did I miss?
9:12:32 PM M@V: ZSS jab frame one o.o
9:12:36 PM LIGHT9393: so jab is the fastest option
9:12:44 PM SCOTU42: ok, we don't really care aobut this frame data right now
9:12:52 PM Anthony2231: Back to approaches.
9:12:52 PM M@V: lol yeah, back on track
9:12:52 PM JZ Sez: Why are we talking about frame data?
9:12:57 PM LIGHT9393: does anybody shield-cancel their jabs into a grab
9:12:58 PM M@V: no approaches
9:13:01 PM SCOTU42: so how does fox deal with MK's approach?
9:13:03 PM JZ Sez: Also, I'm missing Starcraft because of this, so stop wasting my time.
9:13:09 PM JZ Sez: Fox shields. Lots of it.
9:13:16 PM M@V: With fox, you dont approach. its that simple. Working on how mk approaches fox
9:13:33 PM SCOTU42: and what fox can do about MK's approaches
9:13:38 PM LIGHT9393: you can also trade moves if you don't want to be shielding the whole time
9:13:39 PM SCOTU42: which, from what I can tell, isn't much
9:13:44 PM LIGHT9393: which moves can be traded?
9:13:44 PM Anthony2231: Say I sh fair what do you do?
9:13:55 PM LIGHT9393: I would probably shield
9:13:57 PM M@V: Shield
9:13:57 PM JZ Sez: SH Fair is probably met best with a sliding shield.
9:14:01 PM Anthony2231: Then?
9:14:02 PM JZ Sez: If you can predict it.
9:14:04 PM SCOTU42: assuming the MK WoP's the fair, and autocancles it, there isn't anything
9:14:20 PM M@V: depending how close mk gets
9:14:23 PM JZ Sez: If you get off the sliding shield, then you're close enough to try to beat out something or grab. Otherwise, you run away.
9:14:25 PM M@V: you might shieldgrab
9:14:30 PM LIGHT9393: that f-air could lead to a possible grab or d-smash so i would get out of there
9:14:30 PM M@V: but most mks will space it just right
9:14:35 PM Anthony2231: ^
9:14:49 PM SCOTU42: that's what i meant by WoP (Wall of Pain)
9:14:49 PM JZ Sez: I have yet to see a good MK mess that up consistently, and on a punishable level.
9:15:04 PM Anthony2231: Ok say i shfair just out of your range, autocancel to dtilt then shuair
9:15:05 PM M@V: its like foxs fair
9:15:10 PM LIGHT9393: and how well does f-air follow up?
9:15:14 PM M@V: you can hit their shield, but back up
9:15:17 PM Anthony2231: I've got like all of foxes options covered right there.
9:15:18 PM M@V: so you dont get punished
9:15:25 PM JZ Sez: Basically.
9:15:41 PM JZ Sez: Question, does Nair/Bair clank/trade with Fair?
9:15:47 PM JZ Sez: Fox's Nair/Bair with MK's Fair
9:15:48 PM SCOTU42: the only thing fox can do about MK's approach is run>shield TOWARDS the MK
9:15:57 PM JZ Sez: Sliding shield is good stuff.
9:15:57 PM SCOTU42: Fair doesn't Clash for MK
9:16:03 PM JZ Sez: ****, never mind, then.
9:16:03 PM M@V: my friend, colaya from smashboards
9:16:08 PM Colaya1990: hello.
9:16:11 PM JZ Sez: No shorthopping "mindgames."
9:16:12 PM JZ Sez: Hello.
9:16:21 PM M@V: Hes knows we are at already, so yeah
9:16:24 PM Anthony2231: Scotu pretty much said it
9:16:47 PM JZ Sez: Sliding shield is too good.
9:16:48 PM Anthony2231: You can run towards them as they're approaching and shield/dodge, and hope you can follow up.
9:16:50 PM JZ Sez: Read: Only option.
9:17:01 PM Anthony2231: ^
9:17:06 PM SCOTU42: reading is the only thing that good players do anyways
9:17:08 PM LIGHT9393: i think we've been over this enough
9:17:24 PM SCOTU42: ok, next part: Camping. Fox doesn't Camp Mk.
9:17:27 PM SCOTU42: moving on
9:17:30 PM Anthony2231: Lmao
9:17:30 PM JZ Sez: LOL.
9:17:32 PM SCOTU42: Planking
9:17:32 PM JZ Sez: Too true.
9:17:35 PM M@V: haha
9:17:37 PM SCOTU42: MK camps fox
9:17:39 PM ZB x R00kie: Lmao
9:17:40 PM JZ Sez: Yeah, I was going to ask about that.
9:17:41 PM LIGHT9393: lol
9:17:42 PM M@V: pew pew pew doesnt come through
9:17:44 PM M@V: this time
9:17:46 PM ZB x R00kie: No
9:17:47 PM M@V: :-(
9:17:50 PM JZ Sez: Planking *****.
9:17:59 PM JZ Sez: Fox is even worse than Falco at dealing with planking.
9:18:12 PM M@V: And Falco is rendered near useless by it
9:18:16 PM SCOTU42: does sliding nair work against planking?
9:18:22 PM SCOTU42: that's like, risky as hell
9:18:30 PM SCOTU42: but might work
9:18:37 PM JZ Sez: Well, you're going to lose anyway.
9:18:41 PM JZ Sez: Might as well try it.
9:18:43 PM JZ Sez: Lulz.
9:18:48 PM SCOTU42: that's a bad mentality
9:18:52 PM JZ Sez: I was joking.
9:18:56 PM ZB x R00kie: I got one..
9:19:01 PM JZ Sez: **** internet and sarcasm not going through.
9:19:09 PM SCOTU42: Nair should beat shuttle loop from that angle
9:19:23 PM Anthony2231: What about uair
9:19:23 PM SCOTU42: but the MK could do like, nair/uair, and you're *****
9:19:28 PM Anthony2231: ^
9:19:36 PM JZ Sez: Yeah.
9:19:41 PM ZB x R00kie: If mk is planking and playing with the ledge...try runnin up the mk and suddenly shield to force a shuttle loop and then upsmash him
9:19:55 PM JZ Sez: Sliding shield into shuttle loop?
9:19:57 PM JZ Sez: Interesting...
9:19:59 PM SCOTU42: doesn't work on some stages (FD)
9:20:01 PM Colaya1990: Does all of MK's aerials beat all of Fox's aerials in priority?
9:20:06 PM SCOTU42: yeah
9:20:07 PM Anthony2231: Yep
9:20:09 PM M@V: hey scotu
9:20:10 PM SCOTU42: cause MK's airs don't clash
9:20:10 PM Colaya1990: Thought so. -_-
9:20:19 PM M@V: A6MZeroSmash invite him
9:20:25 PM SCOTU42: he's on now?
9:20:30 PM M@V: yeah
9:20:30 PM JZ Sez: ****ing disjointed hitboxes.
9:20:32 PM M@V: its not letting me do it
9:20:36 PM M@V: for some reaason
9:20:44 PM Anthony2231: Whos A6M
9:20:51 PM M@V: another fox
9:20:53 PM JZ Sez: Another Fox.
9:20:58 PM Anthony2231: Ah ok.
9:20:58 PM LIGHT9393: he is a fox main
9:21:10 PM SCOTU42: one that doesn't get along w/ me for some reason
9:21:12 PM JZ Sez: We could use some more MKs, but we have Dojo. I'm not going to stop harping on that.
9:21:18 PM Anthony2231: Lol
9:21:25 PM M@V: i tryed calling umbea
9:21:30 PM M@V: umbra*
9:21:31 PM JZ Sez: Fox boards drama whooo.
9:21:32 PM M@V: real good pa mk
9:21:44 PM JZ Sez: Planking basically screws over Fox.
9:21:46 PM M@V: he is where most of my mk experience is from
9:22:00 PM JZ Sez: He's got a few "surprise" options, but no solid answers.
9:22:31 PM M@V: ugh its not letting me invite a6m :/
9:22:32 PM JZ Sez: Is there anything else to be said about it?
9:22:39 PM SCOTU42: i already invited A6M
9:22:47 PM JZ Sez: We seem to have a running shield into shuttle loop, and Nair.
9:22:56 PM SCOTU42: A6M's not on MSN either
9:23:05 PM M@V: its A6MZeroSmash
9:23:08 PM M@V: is his aim
9:23:09 PM ZB x R00kie: If u force a planking mk to shuttle loop with a shield bait mk is forced to take the upsmash cuz if mk glide attacks he'll fall straight off the map
9:23:40 PM M@V: Be careful, MK can reverse shuttle loop onto a lot of stages
9:23:42 PM JZ Sez: Also, just read scotu's comment about Usmash = DP, and I loled.
9:23:46 PM M@V: and laglessly follow it up
9:23:52 PM JZ Sez: If only.
9:23:55 PM ZB x R00kie: I play shadow umbra dmbrandom ninjalink and d1 all the time
9:23:56 PM Anthony2231: If I sit on the edge at all I'll pull off jump uair jump fair pulling away, then I'll grab again.
9:24:21 PM JZ Sez: Over shuttle loop?
9:24:22 PM SCOTU42: there, got another MK
9:24:24 PM LIGHT9393: so it's basically a losing situation for fox
9:24:25 PM Anthony2231: Oh and he can reverse sl on typically any stage.
9:24:34 PM JZ Sez: Any reason why you'd choose uair/fair over shuttle loop/
9:24:35 PM JZ Sez: ?
9:24:38 PM JZ Sez: Because it's safer, or...?
9:24:44 PM Anthony2231: Sl can be punished.
9:24:46 PM M@V: its faster>
9:24:58 PM JZ Sez: Introductions around again?
9:25:01 PM RAGNARK1: Yo.
9:25:01 PM M@V: and shuttlle loop gets easy to see
9:25:07 PM Anthony2231: Exactly
9:25:18 PM M@V: Hi. Scotu resend A6M an invite he said he didnt get it
9:25:20 PM Anthony2231: Besides if I stay offstage you'd have to be silly to come chase me off.
9:25:24 PM LIGHT9393: sl can be edgehugged correct?
9:25:34 PM RAGNARK1: what is sl / si ?
9:25:35 PM RAGNARK1: shuttle loop
9:25:37 PM JZ Sez: Shuttle Loop
9:25:37 PM RAGNARK1: or short illusion
9:25:38 PM RAGNARK1: ?
9:25:41 PM RAGNARK1: ah
9:25:53 PM JZ Sez: And you are...?
9:25:53 PM RAGNARK1: well whoever said "shuttle loop gets easy to see" is theory crafting
9:25:55 PM ZB x R00kie: SL can be
9:25:56 PM RAGNARK1: and broke a rule
9:26:03 PM ZB x R00kie: I've done it
9:26:13 PM RAGNARK1: whenever your entire defense agaisnt a move is boiled down to
9:26:18 PM RAGNARK1: "I'll call him on it"
9:26:21 PM RAGNARK1: when you are recovering
9:26:25 PM JZ Sez: Seems like it requires some ridiculous frametight hogging.
9:26:28 PM RAGNARK1: it is still very much in his hands
9:26:29 PM JZ Sez: And we're talking about planking.
9:26:38 PM RAGNARK1: what about it?
9:26:40 PM ZB x R00kie: It is frame tight
9:26:45 PM RAGNARK1: MK can do it to Fox, Fox can't do it to MK
9:26:49 PM ZB x R00kie: But
9:26:52 PM LIGHT9393: the thing is how often would we see a mk continue his sling if the fox is in aerial range?
9:26:55 PM ZB x R00kie: U gotta have balls too
9:26:56 PM JZ Sez: Yeah. We're talking about possible solutions.
9:26:56 PM RAGNARK1: MKs don't shuttle loop when planking either
9:27:02 PM JZ Sez: We discussed that.
9:27:03 PM ZB x R00kie: I aint scared of SL cuz I got good di with fox
9:27:07 PM RAGNARK1: hit away from the edge, u-air, jump and nair
9:27:09 PM JZ Sez: Dojo covered it up there.
9:27:13 PM LIGHT9393: oh yes i remember
9:27:18 PM RAGNARK1: you autograb ledge and autohit out of invincibility
9:27:23 PM LIGHT9393: not much at all i'm assuming
9:27:28 PM JZ Sez: I aint scared of SL cuz I got good di with fox <--LOL, rookie
9:28:02 PM A6MZeroSmash: there we go
9:28:08 PM SCOTU42: finally
9:28:21 PM ZB x R00kie: Its truw jzsez
9:28:27 PM JZ Sez: I bet it is.
9:28:29 PM M@V: he finally makes it lol
9:28:29 PM ZB x R00kie: True*
9:28:35 PM ZB x R00kie: Haha
9:28:41 PM SCOTU42: i'll brb
9:28:49 PM JZ Sez: Okay.
9:29:07 PM A6MZeroSmash: who else is waiting for the SBR to get their **** together so we can post our essays
9:29:08 PM JZ Sez: Planking basically is MK laughing at Fox for however long, agreed?
9:29:08 PM A6MZeroSmash: lol
9:29:17 PM RAGNARK1: Your essays?
9:29:28 PM M@V: hey in speaking of planking counters
9:29:30 PM LIGHT9393: yeah in essence
9:29:39 PM M@V: if shine DOES have invinciblity on frames 1 and 2
9:29:43 PM M@V: could that work?
9:29:46 PM RAGNARK1: ....no
9:29:49 PM Anthony2231: Doubtful
9:29:50 PM JZ Sez: No.
9:29:53 PM A6MZeroSmash: it does have invincibilty though
9:29:58 PM RAGNARK1: >_>
9:30:02 PM RAGNARK1: what are you guys trying to do?
9:30:02 PM LIGHT9393: its not reliable enough
9:30:05 PM JZ Sez: It wouldn't stop the planking.
9:30:08 PM RAGNARK1: If you have to reach that far
9:30:10 PM RAGNARK1: you're toast
9:30:13 PM JZ Sez: Yeah, we know.
9:30:18 PM Anthony2231: Lol
9:30:24 PM RAGNARK1: you want to stop planking 100% of the time?
9:30:27 PM M@V: iJust throwing out ideas
9:30:30 PM RAGNARK1: You can do it with vitually any character
9:30:32 PM JZ Sez: We've already agreed Planking screws Fox more than it screws Falco, and Falco gets ****ed like hell.
9:30:37 PM RAGNARK1: run up to the edge and shield
9:30:38 PM RAGNARK1: BAM
9:30:43 PM RAGNARK1: you have a 100% advantage
9:30:45 PM JZ Sez: Yeah, Rookie mentioned it.
9:30:51 PM JZ Sez: We're thinking if there's anything else.
9:30:53 PM RAGNARK1: this doesn't stop them from doing anything
9:30:56 PM RAGNARK1: but it forces them to act
9:31:01 PM RAGNARK1: they don't act? Just roll away
9:31:04 PM RAGNARK1: repeat
9:31:19 PM SCOTU42: so if MK gets a stock up, it's GG
9:31:25 PM Anthony2231: I just wait til their shield lowers then poke at their feet with a fair. :P
9:31:27 PM RAGNARK1: no
9:31:29 PM SCOTU42: actually, he doesn't really need to get a stock up
9:31:31 PM RAGNARK1: it's GG when MK and Fox are even
9:31:34 PM JZ Sez: Percent up.
9:31:35 PM JZ Sez: Lulz.
9:31:42 PM RAGNARK1: It's not run up to the edge and shield forever
9:31:48 PM RAGNARK1: it's run up, shield, and then react to their reaction
9:31:49 PM Anthony2231: Doesnt have to be.
9:31:56 PM RAGNARK1: most good MKs will just drop and u-air
9:31:59 PM RAGNARK1: since they can't be punished for that
9:32:06 PM RAGNARK1: some will jump and fair
9:32:15 PM LIGHT9393: So really Fox has nothing advantantageous over MK then?
9:32:17 PM RAGNARK1: regardless, you are shielding
9:32:24 PM RAGNARK1: you just let go of shield and grab the edge
9:32:24 PM JZ Sez: Obviously, there's ways around it, but realistically - how likely is it that Fox is going to find a solid, RELIABLE answer to planking?
9:32:33 PM LIGHT9393: not often
9:32:34 PM RAGNARK1: I just told you one
9:32:34 PM RAGNARK1: run up
9:32:35 PM RAGNARK1: shield
9:32:37 PM RAGNARK1: react to reaction
9:32:37 PM ZB x R00kie: Gather all ur patience together if facin a plank...basically
9:32:53 PM RAGNARK1: the reason grabbing the edge is so good is because it puts you at an advantage
9:32:55 PM M@V: lighting thats why this matchup has been projected in the 35:65 range...not too much fox has....
9:32:56 PM ZB x R00kie: I said that already
9:32:59 PM RAGNARK1: when you are on the edge
9:32:59 PM M@V: lets keep going though
9:33:06 PM RAGNARK1: your opponent has to do something to you first
9:33:08 PM A6MZeroSmash: Fox does better than every other non-top tier character other than diddy and yoshi against MK
9:33:09 PM RAGNARK1: if they run up and shield
9:33:15 PM RAGNARK1: well, YOU have to do something first
9:33:24 PM RAGNARK1: advantage for being on the edge is lost
9:33:30 PM M@V: Do explain A6m?
9:33:38 PM JZ Sez: Whoa, whoa, that's a ton to cover.
9:33:42 PM JZ Sez: I suggest we keep going topic by topic.
9:33:44 PM M@V: Bowser got the grab release
9:33:44 PM A6MZeroSmash: every character has the same weaknesses against Metaknight
9:33:48 PM RAGNARK1: Fox can dish it out
9:33:50 PM RAGNARK1: but Fox can't take it
9:33:56 PM RAGNARK1: that basically sums it up
9:33:57 PM A6MZeroSmash: exactly
9:33:58 PM SCOTU42: so basically, fox can't deal with planking
9:34:03 PM A6MZeroSmash: but no other character can dish it out
9:34:03 PM RAGNARK1: fox can't deal with MK
9:34:08 PM RAGNARK1: planking is not really an issue
9:34:11 PM RAGNARK1: anymore than anything else
9:34:16 PM M@V: Fox is a high risk high reward character in one sentence
9:34:25 PM M@V: go mad combos, but can get punished HARD
9:34:31 PM A6MZeroSmash: every non-top tier character has the same failure against metaknight, but Fox can atleast dish it out
9:34:31 PM A6MZeroSmash: mot cant even do that.
9:34:38 PM A6MZeroSmash: most*
9:34:38 PM Anthony2231: Lol plenty can.
9:34:39 PM RAGNARK1: yeah
9:34:47 PM A6MZeroSmash: pssh
9:34:48 PM RAGNARK1: most characters have decent KO potential
9:34:56 PM Anthony2231: Fox has typically nothing on MK.
9:34:57 PM RAGNARK1: most character have decent damage
9:35:02 PM RAGNARK1: Fox has u-smash at low %
9:35:04 PM RAGNARK1: but that's abouti t
9:35:05 PM RAGNARK1: :\
9:35:08 PM Anthony2231: ^
9:35:11 PM Anthony2231: That IS it.
9:35:14 PM A6MZeroSmash: Fox's basic combos still work on MK
9:35:15 PM M@V: ^
9:35:16 PM SCOTU42: so basically, we've got MK ****** fox on approach, with fox having only one reasonable option w/ little mixup, fox getting ***** in edgeguards, and it being roughly close with KO power (non gimp), and MK edge camping that fox can't deal with
9:35:17 PM RAGNARK1: no, he has laser
9:35:17 PM A6MZeroSmash: if you start them
9:35:18 PM RAGNARK1: that counts to
9:35:23 PM LIGHT9393: so whats the area that needs the most discussion on?
9:35:28 PM A6MZeroSmash: Drill will still lead into jab-grab
9:35:33 PM A6MZeroSmash: utilts still combo into upsmash
9:35:43 PM A6MZeroSmash: drill -> jab -> dthrow -> lasers
9:35:46 PM JZ Sez: Scotu: Any other topic we need covered?
9:35:46 PM A6MZeroSmash: good for about 20%
9:35:49 PM Anthony2231: It's not hard to stay away from dairs.
9:35:52 PM JZ Sez: Or should we go into specifics, and then recap?
9:35:54 PM RAGNARK1: yeah....
9:35:55 PM Anthony2231: I can just pull back a fair.
9:35:58 PM RAGNARK1: dairs were avoided in melee
9:36:00 PM RAGNARK1: brawl is not harder
9:36:04 PM Anthony2231: And you fall into it.
9:36:12 PM RAGNARK1: not to mention you can shield after the dair if they don't space it properly
9:36:15 PM A6MZeroSmash: we don't //approach// with drills
9:36:16 PM Anthony2231: ^
9:36:17 PM A6MZeroSmash: you guys dont get that
9:36:18 PM A6MZeroSmash: ><
9:36:20 PM RAGNARK1: ...and MK can u-tilt
9:36:22 PM Anthony2231: You can't approach.
9:36:22 PM RAGNARK1: or short hop u-air
9:36:25 PM RAGNARK1: or tornado
9:36:30 PM M@V: A6M
9:36:30 PM RAGNARK1: or shuttle loop
9:36:30 PM RAGNARK1: or u-smash
9:36:32 PM RAGNARK1: or nair
9:36:34 PM M@V: it doesnt matter what your apporach with
9:36:35 PM RAGNARK1: or retreating fair
9:36:36 PM M@V: you cant here
9:36:40 PM RAGNARK1: or retreating bair
9:36:44 PM Anthony2231: Lol
9:36:44 PM M@V: mk slaps you silly if you do
9:36:51 PM A6MZeroSmash: MK is mean
9:36:56 PM Anthony2231: :-)
9:36:57 PM RAGNARK1: If Fox wants to win
9:36:59 PM SCOTU42: MK is a total *****
9:37:01 PM Anthony2231: :-D
9:37:01 PM RAGNARK1: he does two things
9:37:04 PM RAGNARK1: 1.
9:37:06 PM RAGNARK1: laser
9:37:18 PM SCOTU42: I don't even think fox can use the laser for anything good
9:37:20 PM RAGNARK1: 2. run away a lot until he's at kill %, then u-smash when possible
9:37:23 PM A6MZeroSmash: if Fox wants to win, he camps and plays as tight as sickneningly possible
9:37:24 PM RAGNARK1: he uses it to make MK approach
9:37:27 PM SCOTU42: MK crosses the stage before fox can fire 4 bolts
9:37:27 PM LIGHT9393: your approach i non-existant, therefore your combos are hard to set up although they do a decent amount of damage
9:37:31 PM LIGHT9393: is*
9:37:33 PM RAGNARK1: he doesn't spam laser
9:37:36 PM RAGNARK1: he shoots two or three
9:37:38 PM RAGNARK1: then waits for MK
9:37:41 PM A6MZeroSmash: Fox plays MK like Game and Watch, except he can't punish anything
9:37:43 PM Anthony2231: Even then.
9:37:57 PM SCOTU42: great, you hit MK w/ 3 lasers
9:38:02 PM SCOTU42: now what?
9:38:03 PM JZ Sez: 6% delicious.
9:38:05 PM RAGNARK1: it depends
9:38:05 PM LIGHT9393: you have fairly good kill moves, but the ability to connect and acquire the percentage needed is limited
9:38:07 PM A6MZeroSmash: MK vs. Fox is like Ganon vs. Fox. but the other way around
9:38:08 PM SCOTU42: you have to deal with his apporach
9:38:09 PM RAGNARK1: if he doesn't do anything
9:38:10 PM RAGNARK1: do it again
9:38:14 PM A6MZeroSmash: Fox can't do anything to MK unless MK makes a mistake
9:38:15 PM RAGNARK1: you hit him with more lasers
9:38:17 PM A6MZeroSmash: simple as that
9:38:20 PM RAGNARK1: if he runs towards you or rolls towards you
9:38:28 PM RAGNARK1: then you do something about his approach
9:38:32 PM A6MZeroSmash: Fox needs to make half as many mistakes as the MK does, and punish all of MK's.
9:38:34 PM RAGNARK1: or just illusion through him after he starts an aeiral
9:38:35 PM A6MZeroSmash: that's basically it
9:38:38 PM RAGNARK1: and laser again
9:38:51 PM A6MZeroSmash: also
9:38:53 PM SCOTU42: and fox isn't even that great at that, OS =/
9:39:00 PM A6MZeroSmash: i made my post for the fox discussion
9:39:00 PM RAGNARK1: no, but it is what he has
9:39:06 PM A6MZeroSmash: ftr
9:39:11 PM M@V: Fox is goodbut not spectacular
9:39:13 PM RAGNARK1: one trick that does work against most MKs
9:39:20 PM Anthony2231: That's OS?
9:39:21 PM M@V: high mid tierish
9:39:22 PM RAGNARK1: is for Fox to make MK jump twice
9:39:22 PM JZ Sez: ?
9:39:23 PM RAGNARK1: yes
9:39:24 PM RAGNARK1: Overswarm
9:39:25 PM RAGNARK1: <--
9:39:25 PM Anthony2231: Oh ok.
9:39:32 PM RAGNARK1: if Fox can make MK jump twice
9:39:33 PM A6MZeroSmash: Fox is bottom of mid-tier
9:39:33 PM M@V: Holy crap
9:39:36 PM RAGNARK1: and then fastfall
9:39:41 PM A6MZeroSmash: just cause he's a solid secondary
9:39:42 PM M@V: I didnt realize that was you overswarm xD
9:39:42 PM RAGNARK1: he can be in a good position for a fair
9:39:46 PM JZ Sez: Oh, lol.
9:39:48 PM RAGNARK1: I try not to parade it around
9:39:50 PM Anthony2231: Me either, lol.
9:39:51 PM JZ Sez: I didn't realize it was OS.
9:39:59 PM RAGNARK1: it helps when people disagree with you 99% of the time
9:40:01 PM SCOTU42: didn't i say, "I got OS in here"?
9:40:04 PM RAGNARK1: then realize "Oh hey, you're overswarm"
9:40:08 PM JZ Sez: LOL
9:40:08 PM RAGNARK1: and then agree with you 99% of the time
9:40:09 PM LIGHT9393: lol
9:40:11 PM Anthony2231: Lol
9:40:14 PM M@V: Lol
9:40:14 PM RAGNARK1: helps you find out which people are tools
9:40:21 PM SCOTU42: true dat
9:40:22 PM M@V: I dont care if im talking to the king of siam
9:40:26 PM M@V: i voice my opnion
9:40:28 PM RAGNARK1: you should
9:40:30 PM RAGNARK1: respect royalty
9:40:32 PM M@V: =P
9:40:37 PM M@V: you know what i mean.
9:40:38 PM RAGNARK1: especially the king of siam
9:40:39 PM JZ Sez: I suck scotu's ****. I mean, what.
9:40:43 PM JZ Sez: But back on topic.
9:40:44 PM RAGNARK1: anyway
9:40:56 PM RAGNARK1: Fox has nothing in the matchup but punishing
9:41:05 PM A6MZeroSmash: who the **** is OS
9:41:07 PM RAGNARK1: you want to go for dairs as often as possible in the begining
9:41:07 PM A6MZeroSmash: :/
9:41:08 PM Anthony2231: Lmao
9:41:10 PM Colaya1990: xD
9:41:10 PM JZ Sez: LOL
9:41:12 PM M@V: LOL
9:41:15 PM A6MZeroSmash: which one of you, I mean
9:41:16 PM A6MZeroSmash: lol
9:41:18 PM A6MZeroSmash: I wasnt listening
9:41:19 PM RAGNARK1: try to figure out if it works against htat particular MK
9:41:23 PM JZ Sez: Ragnark1
9:41:24 PM LIGHT9393: So does that mean we are ready for matchup nubmers?
9:41:28 PM RAGNARK1: if it does, you've got a good game going on
9:41:28 PM A6MZeroSmash: k
9:41:28 PM M@V: Oversawm quick off topic, whens the fox update coming out?
9:41:32 PM RAGNARK1: it has
9:41:32 PM JZ Sez: It just did.
9:41:32 PM A6MZeroSmash: matchup, 65:35
9:41:39 PM JZ Sez: While we were talking.
9:41:43 PM RAGNARK1: if the MK is smart enough to avoid the dair
9:41:45 PM M@V: oh rally? lol i have a wrtieup waiting for it
9:41:49 PM JZ Sez: So do the rest of us.
9:41:49 PM M@V: lemme go see, my bad
9:41:50 PM Anthony2231: Your boned
9:41:53 PM A6MZeroSmash: posted my writeup already
9:42:00 PM RAGNARK1: then you've just gotta laser
9:42:03 PM RAGNARK1: and hope the MK is aggressive
9:42:05 PM RAGNARK1: and you can punish
9:42:08 PM A6MZeroSmash: eh, depending on how sloppy the MK is you can get your damage with grabs
9:42:10 PM JZ Sez: Laser doesn't even do that much.
9:42:11 PM A6MZeroSmash: exactly
9:42:11 PM SCOTU42: OS, you'd better have titled the thread "The SBR Laughs at Fox" like i said lol
9:42:16 PM RAGNARK1: u-smash out of shield, fairs if the MK jumps twice, grabbing poor spacing
9:42:16 PM A6MZeroSmash: he didnt
9:42:17 PM A6MZeroSmash: lol
9:42:20 PM A6MZeroSmash: and they didnt, actually
9:42:21 PM JZ Sez: He didn't, unfortunately.
9:42:26 PM JZ Sez: We're not talking about sloppy MKs, A6M
9:42:28 PM A6MZeroSmash: the SBR seems to have a decent opinion of him
9:42:32 PM A6MZeroSmash: I know you're not
9:42:41 PM SCOTU42: from what i hear, the SBRs opinions of fox vary wiely
9:42:47 PM SCOTU42: widely*
9:42:49 PM RAGNARK1: Fox is a pocket character
9:42:50 PM RAGNARK1: nothing more
9:42:55 PM RAGNARK1: mainig Fox is a good way to never make top 3
9:42:58 PM M@V: Scotu
9:43:00 PM Anthony2231: ^
9:43:04 PM RAGNARK1: because all it takes is one kid playing ZSS or Pikachu
9:43:04 PM M@V: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=211021
9:43:05 PM RAGNARK1: and you lose
9:43:09 PM M@V: the sbr thread
9:43:15 PM A6MZeroSmash: pssh, zss is the worst of his counters
9:43:16 PM A6MZeroSmash: -_-
9:43:17 PM JZ Sez: Pikachu, ZSS, delicious.
9:43:20 PM SCOTU42: A certain Anther...
9:43:23 PM Anthony2231: Anything else over this topic.
9:43:25 PM M@V: No
9:43:26 PM A6MZeroSmash: Sheik and pika **** fox more than zss does
9:43:28 PM M@V: Pika sheik
9:43:32 PM SCOTU42: actually sheik *****
9:43:33 PM JZ Sez: ZSS isn't really THAT good against Fox.
9:43:36 PM M@V: ZSS isnt as bad
9:43:38 PM JZ Sez: Sheik destroys more.
9:43:44 PM RAGNARK1: are you kidding?
9:43:45 PM M@V: Sheik 30-death combo *cries*
9:43:45 PM SCOTU42: we're not talking about shiek, ZSS, Pik
9:43:46 PM A6MZeroSmash: zss's chain does less than FALCOS
9:43:49 PM RAGNARK1: ZSS has an infinite on Fox
9:43:53 PM SCOTU42: GUYS
9:43:54 PM SCOTU42: MK
9:43:56 PM JZ Sez: LOL
9:43:59 PM JZ Sez: Scotu's right.
9:44:06 PM SCOTU42: I think we can talk about some stages now
9:44:17 PM RAGNARK1: Corneria and Halberd
9:44:20 PM RAGNARK1: low ceilings = win
9:44:22 PM SCOTU42: Personally, I find that Pipes is a good stage for fox in the matchups
9:44:23 PM RAGNARK1: corneria is great for MK though
9:44:26 PM SCOTU42: low ceiling
9:44:28 PM Anthony2231: I ban halberd and camp fin on corneria. Then what.
9:44:30 PM JZ Sez: I figure we should discuss neutrals as well.
9:44:30 PM RAGNARK1: Pipes is a bad choice
9:44:31 PM SCOTU42: NO horizontal ko
9:44:45 PM RAGNARK1: MK can easily kill you just as you can kill him...
9:44:54 PM RAGNARK1: except he has an easier time tech chasing
9:45:02 PM RAGNARK1: and you can ONLY ko him vertically
9:45:08 PM RAGNARK1: he can't kill you however
9:45:15 PM SCOTU42: hm, i suppose he can edgecamp the left
9:45:20 PM RAGNARK1: add the blocks saving his life when you DO land your golden u-smash
9:45:25 PM RAGNARK1: and it gets sour for Fox fast
9:45:30 PM RAGNARK1: since MK is hitting him with KO moves left and right
9:45:41 PM RAGNARK1: while you're praying for an u-smash that isn't under the blocks that will stop him
9:45:43 PM RAGNARK1: >_>
9:45:51 PM SCOTU42: fair actually ***** on pipes for fox though
9:46:01 PM SCOTU42: it'll cut through the blocks, and KO at stupid percents
9:46:31 PM JZ Sez: Pipes can go either way, really.
9:46:53 PM SCOTU42: idk, i think pipes is better than neutral for fox, anywyas
9:47:03 PM JZ Sez: It's not an extremely good pick, but I wouldn't call it a bad one by any means.
9:47:20 PM RAGNARK1: Just go Halberd
9:47:23 PM SCOTU42: i dont' think corneria's a good pick
9:47:27 PM RAGNARK1: you get more opportunities to laser
9:47:34 PM RAGNARK1: and the ceiling is low
9:47:42 PM SCOTU42: if "just go halbred" is your strategy, then MK's strategy is going to be "ban halbred"
9:47:43 PM RAGNARK1: you can also recover through the stage
9:47:49 PM RAGNARK1: no
9:47:51 PM RAGNARK1: MKs don't need to
9:47:53 PM RAGNARK1: they can still win there
9:48:01 PM RAGNARK1: it's just Fox's best bet
9:48:05 PM RAGNARK1: doesn't mean it is a threat to MK
9:48:09 PM JZ Sez: What about neutrals?
9:48:16 PM SCOTU42: well, MK gets to ban something
9:48:20 PM JZ Sez: FD, Battlefield, Smashville, Yoshi's Island?
9:48:20 PM SCOTU42: why not ban his best bet?
9:48:39 PM ZB x R00kie: Mks ban fd on me all the time
9:48:39 PM LIGHT9393: would platforms help in any way?
9:48:51 PM SCOTU42: battlefield platforms would be bad
9:48:52 PM JZ Sez: And if Halberd is the CP for Fox, like you claim it is, OS, then it'll be banned.
9:48:58 PM LIGHT9393: it seems as if mk can juggle to easily
9:48:59 PM SCOTU42: smashvilles are kinda ok
9:48:59 PM JZ Sez: Platforms like on Battlefield = GG Fox.
9:49:07 PM RAGNARK1: Jzsez
9:49:13 PM RAGNARK1: this is assuming MKs play well on all stages
9:49:19 PM RAGNARK1: you know what I ban when I play as MK?
9:49:22 PM JZ Sez: I don't.
9:49:26 PM RAGNARK1: me neither
9:49:29 PM JZ Sez: Sweet.
9:49:30 PM RAGNARK1: it changes every time I sit down
9:49:32 PM RAGNARK1: because it doesn't matter
9:49:34 PM JZ Sez: LOL
9:49:37 PM RAGNARK1: I normally ban BF or FD
9:49:41 PM RAGNARK1: just because they're boring and I don't like them
9:49:45 PM RAGNARK1: but if I forget and ban something else
9:49:54 PM RAGNARK1: they get excited and take me there
9:49:57 PM RAGNARK1: but I still do well there
9:50:02 PM Anthony2231: I love BF.
9:50:04 PM M@V: yeah banning stages vs mk doesnt do much
9:50:05 PM RAGNARK1: it's just a preference thing when MK bans a stage, really :\
9:50:09 PM M@V: he has to many good ones....
9:50:11 PM JZ Sez: Battlefield is definitely advantage MK, thouhg.
9:50:12 PM JZ Sez: *though.
9:50:17 PM RAGNARK1: Sure, I'll ban a stage if someone LIKES it
9:50:20 PM Colaya1990: uh...
9:50:21 PM M@V: I usually ban weegii mansion to avoid whorenado ****
9:50:23 PM RAGNARK1: I ban FD against FD kids all the time
9:50:26 PM Colaya1990: What about Luigi's mansion?
9:50:33 PM Anthony2231: It really is just preference.
9:50:41 PM LIGHT9393: luigi's mansion is a tornado fest waiting to happen
9:50:43 PM RAGNARK1: but I don't HAVE to ban anything
9:50:50 PM RAGNARK1: you guys still get wrecked by that?
9:50:52 PM Colaya1990: Oh wait. I thought we were talking about what stages to ban AGAINST MK. xD
9:50:54 PM RAGNARK1: smash DI last hit
9:50:58 PM RAGNARK1: left or right
9:50:59 PM M@V: best stages to ban vs MK: Lylat and Luigis mansion
9:51:00 PM RAGNARK1: end tornado ****
9:51:05 PM M@V: just because they are so bad for fox
9:51:07 PM LIGHT9393: thats the thing, but ARE there certain stages that would offer fox more of an advantage
9:51:08 PM JZ Sez: Lylat is always a stage to ban.
9:51:19 PM JZ Sez: ****ing slanted ground.
9:51:23 PM LIGHT9393: i keep on hearing it doesn't matter
9:51:33 PM SCOTU42: lylat has silly MK heigh platforms
9:51:36 PM M@V: i always ban Weegiis, mainly because I dont feel like dealing with tornados
9:51:37 PM LIGHT9393: oh yes i have sd in a tourney due to that before
9:51:51 PM M@V: if weegiis isnt allowed
9:51:53 PM M@V: then lylat
9:52:04 PM M@V: CP halberd as mentioned
9:52:13 PM M@V: corneria is good for fox, but amazing for mk
9:52:15 PM SCOTU42: ok, i think we've got stages covered
9:52:16 PM LIGHT9393: and if that is banned?
9:52:18 PM RAGNARK1: yes
9:52:24 PM RAGNARK1: if you really want to mess with MK
9:52:26 PM RAGNARK1: take him to Green Greens
9:52:29 PM M@V: your vertical advnatages isnt as good as mks horizontal on corneria
9:52:29 PM LIGHT9393: lol
9:52:31 PM JZ Sez: **** that stage.
9:52:33 PM Colaya1990: lol.
9:52:35 PM Colaya1990: Pew the bombs.
9:52:42 PM M@V: I ban that stage >_>
9:52:42 PM RAGNARK1: more like hang around the bombs a lot
9:52:43 PM JZ Sez: I hate Green Greens.
9:52:45 PM RAGNARK1: and hope MK gets hit
9:52:45 PM SCOTU42: OH GOD GREEN GREENS
9:52:47 PM LIGHT9393: i like the apples
9:52:49 PM M@V: What about pirate ship?
9:52:49 PM SCOTU42: I LOVE GREEN GREENS
9:52:58 PM JZ Sez: It's a good stage, I'm sure, but I /hate/ it.
9:52:58 PM M@V: cant you go for the water if he comes to edgeguard?
9:53:18 PM SCOTU42: MK doesn't need to "come to edgeguard"
9:53:20 PM Anthony2231: I can dair you into the ship and it spikes you.
9:53:21 PM Anthony2231: XD
9:53:25 PM JZ Sez: Water?
9:53:25 PM ZB x R00kie: **** yall mentionin a whole bunch of stages ny banned
9:53:27 PM LIGHT9393: thats what i thought
9:53:27 PM JZ Sez: Water won't save you.
9:53:33 PM M@V: dont get THAT close to the ship dojo
9:53:34 PM ZB x R00kie: Completely
9:53:35 PM M@V: xD
9:53:54 PM SCOTU42: NY needs to be more liberal like the MW lol
9:54:03 PM JZ Sez: Surprises me that NY still does so well with all these silly stage bans
9:54:03 PM LIGHT9393: lol
9:54:03 PM JZ Sez: XD
9:54:04 PM M@V: Fox should be getting back on the ship right as he starts going under the very front of the ship
9:54:11 PM ZB x R00kie: I heaar dat
9:54:22 PM M@V: I love pirate ship for some reason, even though its borderline ban
9:54:31 PM LIGHT9393: it doesn't help much with the macthup however
9:54:38 PM M@V: the only thing i can see on it
9:54:41 PM M@V: is the water
9:54:48 PM M@V: but there are better stages
9:55:03 PM JZ Sez: Obviously, we should be CPing New Pork City on Metaknight.
9:55:03 PM LIGHT9393: yeah at least you can't get gimped as easily although i'm sure bad things can happen
9:55:06 PM JZ Sez: Read: Are we done with stages?
9:55:13 PM M@V: How about norfair? I saw that stage fly around a bit in the cp/ban guide
9:55:25 PM M@V: might as well put it on the table
9:55:29 PM LIGHT9393: doesnt seem like it zhammy
9:55:31 PM SCOTU42: I think we're pretty much done in general, unless anyone has anything else to discuss
9:55:36 PM JZ Sez: I'm not a big fan of Norfair in general.
9:55:41 PM LIGHT9393: same
9:55:42 PM Colaya1990: Flamedashing.
9:55:46 PM M@V: LOL
9:55:51 PM JZ Sez: But I think that's a playstyle twitch rather than general agreement.
9:55:51 PM A6MZeroSmash: A6M's Flamedashing vif
9:55:52 PM SCOTU42: leave Flamedashing outta this chat.
9:55:53 PM A6MZeroSmash: vid*
9:55:53 PM A6MZeroSmash: xD
9:55:58 PM LIGHT9393: dont... most foxes cant handle it
9:56:04 PM JZ Sez: Flamedash is funny as a joke, but not now, please.
9:56:06 PM M@V: Flamedash jokes LATER
9:56:10 PM A6MZeroSmash: didn't you see my guide!? FLAMEDASHING EVEN HITS METAKNIGHT
9:56:11 PM M@V: serious time now
9:56:12 PM A6MZeroSmash: sorry, done
9:56:16 PM SCOTU42: Guys
9:56:18 PM A6MZeroSmash: done!
9:56:28 PM SCOTU42: i guess the last thing to do then
9:56:35 PM SCOTU42: is maybe put a number on this matchup
9:56:37 PM A6MZeroSmash: 68:32
9:56:41 PM Anthony2231: lol
9:56:41 PM SCOTU42: wtf
9:56:42 PM JZ Sez: 65:35.
9:56:45 PM JZ Sez: wtf A6M
9:56:46 PM Anthony2231: Lmao
9:56:47 PM SCOTU42: a x5 number
9:56:55 PM M@V: im calling it 65:35 MK
9:56:58 PM A6MZeroSmash: it's worse than 65:35, not as bad as 70:30
9:56:59 PM JZ Sez: 70:30 leans too close to hard counter range, which MK is not.
9:57:00 PM A6MZeroSmash: serisly
9:57:02 PM A6MZeroSmash: 68:32
9:57:04 PM M@V: 99:1 fox with flamedash
9:57:07 PM M@V: J/K
9:57:14 PM SCOTU42: i think MK vs Fox IS a hard counter
9:57:15 PM A6MZeroSmash: I am dead serious with 68:32
9:57:19 PM Anthony2231: Ditto
9:57:23 PM Anthony2231: I believe its 70/30
9:57:23 PM SCOTU42: that's the Xiivi matchp a6m
9:57:25 PM M@V: seriously 65:35 MK
9:57:29 PM A6MZeroSmash: maybe 67.5 : 32.5
9:57:33 PM SCOTU42: i think probably 70:30
9:57:33 PM A6MZeroSmash: :P
9:57:34 PM JZ Sez: 60:40 isn't good enough to justify the options that MK has on Fox.
9:57:34 PM M@V: a couple small things fox has
9:57:42 PM M@V: but mainly MK owns u
9:57:49 PM M@V: so im calling 65:35 MK
9:57:54 PM LIGHT9393: so then 65:35
9:57:56 PM A6MZeroSmash: can we please call it 68:32
9:57:57 PM A6MZeroSmash: xD
9:57:57 PM Colaya1990: Might be a good idea to use.... Whatever character you use whenever you face a Pika/Shiek... Against MK.
9:58:01 PM JZ Sez: Eh, Fox still has enough to put up a fight, but otherwise, MK does destroy stuff.
9:58:12 PM SCOTU42: 70:30 isn't unwinable, but like OS said, you pretty much have to just laser a few times, and run away, and that's your best shot
9:58:13 PM A6MZeroSmash: yeah, at least Fox makes mk try
9:58:14 PM A6MZeroSmash: 65:35
9:58:15 PM LIGHT9393: so then what did we learn from this discussion?
9:58:26 PM M@V: MK *****?
9:58:30 PM A6MZeroSmash: that MK is going to get banned
9:58:30 PM SCOTU42: we knew that
9:58:31 PM M@V: oh wait...
9:58:33 PM RAGNARK1: guys
9:58:35 PM M@V: we know that.
9:58:38 PM JZ Sez: 70:30 is still eh.
9:58:38 PM SCOTU42: MK is not going to get banned.
9:58:45 PM JZ Sez: MK won't get banned; sorry OS
9:58:54 PM M@V: Probably not, but we can hope
9:58:54 PM RAGNARK1: Your numbers
9:58:55 PM LIGHT9393: :'(
9:58:57 PM RAGNARK1: are arbitrary
9:58:59 PM SCOTU42: yes
9:59:00 PM SCOTU42: they are
9:59:04 PM A6MZeroSmash: 62:38
9:59:04 PM RAGNARK1: and I'm part of the group that decides whether or not he'll be banned
9:59:06 PM RAGNARK1: so I know hwere that is
9:59:07 PM RAGNARK1: :p
9:59:10 PM JZ Sez: But it's a general reference.
9:59:13 PM RAGNARK1: no
9:59:14 PM RAGNARK1: it isn't
9:59:20 PM A6MZeroSmash: 68:32 ?
9:59:20 PM RAGNARK1: If you say it is 70:30
9:59:21 PM JZ Sez: For the people who look at the matchup discussion?
9:59:22 PM JZ Sez: Yes.
9:59:27 PM RAGNARK1: and I say it is 60:40
9:59:31 PM RAGNARK1: but we mean the same thing
9:59:36 PM RAGNARK1: that's not general reference
9:59:36 PM RAGNARK1: >_>
9:59:38 PM M@V: it all depends
9:59:44 PM M@V: what you consider a "hard" coutner
9:59:44 PM JZ Sez: We're looking at consistency across the Fox board matchup thread.
9:59:52 PM A6MZeroSmash: 67:33 then
9:59:54 PM JZ Sez: In general? Yes, they're abitrary.
9:59:59 PM M@V: i consider 70:30 hard counter
10:00:12 PM M@V: when i made the matchup thread
10:00:12 PM Anthony2231: Ok, well this is generally done. Nice talking to you guys.
10:00:12 PM SCOTU42: I wish Ankoku were here. He'd probably explode about matchup numbers XD
10:00:17 PM Anthony2231: I'm outty.
10:00:22 PM JZ Sez: Thanks, Dojo.
10:00:23 PM SCOTU42: Thanks for contributing
10:00:24 PM A6MZeroSmash: 70:30 is a character that seems to be designed to beat another character
10:00:26 PM Anthony2231: No prob.
10:00:30 PM JZ Sez: Does Ankoku have something against matchup numbers?
10:00:30 PM M@V: Dojo
10:00:31 PM A6MZeroSmash: 60:40 is a solid advantage for one side
10:00:33 PM Anthony2231: Yo
10:00:33 PM A6MZeroSmash: therefore
10:00:33 PM JZ Sez: Eh, I'll just ask him later.
10:00:35 PM A6MZeroSmash: 65:45
10:00:36 PM A6MZeroSmash: er.
10:00:37 PM M@V: You going to COT4?
10:00:38 PM A6MZeroSmash: 65;35*
10:00:41 PM Anthony2231: Yeah, I'll be there.
10:00:44 PM SCOTU42: Ankoku's actually heavily into rating matchups by numbers
10:00:49 PM M@V: Nice, can i MM you?
10:00:51 PM M@V: =P
10:00:52 PM Anthony2231: Sure thing.
10:00:55 PM Anthony2231: Just ask me there.
10:00:58 PM M@V: cool.
10:01:00 PM Anthony2231: And we'll get whatever settled.
10:01:01 PM SCOTU42: when is COT4?
10:01:08 PM M@V: Im coming from state college
10:01:10 PM A6MZeroSmash: Psssst, Dojo
10:01:16 PM M@V: so its a short hop for me
10:01:21 PM JZ Sez: M@v, do it for $50 Ganon against his MK, if you win, I'll pay you double.
10:01:26 PM LIGHT9393: well it seems as if everything has been confirmed and re-confirmed enough
10:01:33 PM M@V: OKAY!!!!(pffft yeah right)
10:01:40 PM M@V: Old manondorf....lol
10:01:52 PM A6MZeroSmash: Dojo should send me a recording of him playing Yoshi.
10:01:58 PM JZ Sez: So basically, for numbers: 65:35 - 70:30.
10:02:02 PM M@V: I know! Dojo, $50 mm, Im pikachu your Fox
10:02:03 PM SCOTU42: ALRIGHT! Thanks guys for coming together and discussing this stuff
10:02:06 PM M@V: sound good?
10:02:08 PM M@V: xD
10:02:08 PM A6MZeroSmash: like I said, 68:32
10:02:16 PM LIGHT9393: lol most of it was repeat but your welcome
10:02:26 PM M@V: hed probably still win lol
10:02:28 PM LIGHT9393: thats how discussion goes
10:02:33 PM SCOTU42: it was, but it hadn't been done before in chatroom w/ good MKs afaik
10:02:35 PM JZ Sez: I know A6M was joking about the 68:32 stuff, but it's really close to there, if not completely. But no one will put that down because it's stupid.
10:02:36 PM A6MZeroSmash: i got here at the very end and I have a feeling I didnt miss anything
10:02:36 PM A6MZeroSmash: xD
10:02:43 PM A6MZeroSmash: I was NOT joking about 68:32
10:02:44 PM A6MZeroSmash: ffs
10:02:45 PM A6MZeroSmash: ><>
10:02:46 PM M@V: I have it as 65:35 in the matchup guide right now....
10:02:49 PM JZ Sez: Yeah, Dojo and OS cleared some things up.
10:02:53 PM M@V: is it staying as that?
10:02:54 PM SCOTU42: just make it 70:30
10:03:00 PM A6MZeroSmash: no, it's not 70:30
10:03:06 PM A6MZeroSmash: scotu, this is why I dont like you
10:03:06 PM A6MZeroSmash: :/
10:03:10 PM SCOTU42: that's closer to 68:32 anyways
10:03:19 PM M@V: ^5:35, 70:30 its not much of difference...
10:03:20 PM JZ Sez: I'm going to argue for 65:35 based on what we have in comparison to other matchups.
10:03:22 PM M@V: **** either way
10:03:31 PM LIGHT9393: this is a matter of preference not rules right now
10:03:34 PM JZ Sez: If we're looking for something to put on M@V's chart?
10:03:43 PM M@V: btw, im overhauling the chart
10:03:43 PM A6MZeroSmash: 70:30 is too much of a psychological number than 68:32
10:03:45 PM JZ Sez: It seems more a 65:35. Look at the other matchups on there.
10:03:47 PM SCOTU42: what other matchups do you have?
10:03:52 PM M@V: expect a new one soon
10:04:07 PM SCOTU42: like, pika, and sheik are both higher than 70:30 against fox
10:04:15 PM SCOTU42: so i don't see why that conflicts w/ this
10:04:18 PM M@V: Pika I have as LOL , no seriously
10:04:22 PM LIGHT9393: mentally speaking 65:35 seems reasonable
10:04:28 PM A6MZeroSmash: pika is 75:25
10:04:33 PM A6MZeroSmash: sheik is 80:20
10:04:40 PM A6MZeroSmash: IC is 70:30
10:04:41 PM M@V: you think sheiks worse?
10:04:42 PM A6MZeroSmash: Imo
10:04:42 PM JZ Sez: Weegi is 65:35, Sheik is 25:75, Kirby is 35:65.
10:04:44 PM A6MZeroSmash: yeah
10:04:45 PM SCOTU42: sheik is worse
10:04:48 PM LIGHT9393: but if you really want to stay within the perimeters as numbers go 70:30 is the way to go
10:04:51 PM M@V: I think its the other wat around
10:04:52 PM A6MZeroSmash: sheik can 0-death
10:04:53 PM A6MZeroSmash: pika cant
10:04:59 PM M@V: pika>sheik>ZSS
10:05:05 PM M@V: vs fox imo
10:05:07 PM LIGHT9393: anybody think MK is harder than weegee?
10:05:09 PM A6MZeroSmash: Sheik > pika > ic >zss
10:05:12 PM A6MZeroSmash: ZSS is a soft counter
10:05:16 PM SCOTU42: guys
10:05:16 PM JZ Sez: MK is a bit harder than weegee.
10:05:18 PM SCOTU42: not now
10:05:18 PM M@V: i think Luigi and MK
10:05:21 PM JZ Sez: Lulz
10:05:23 PM M@V: are both the same
10:05:24 PM M@V: vs fox
10:05:26 PM SCOTU42: i think we're done w/ MK
10:05:27 PM LIGHT9393: so then 70:30
10:05:29 PM M@V: Aerials **** you
10:05:29 PM JZ Sez: Scotu is handling us like little kids.
10:05:30 PM A6MZeroSmash: **** MK.
10:05:31 PM SCOTU42: people agree?
10:05:32 PM M@V: in both
10:05:38 PM LIGHT9393: i agree either way
10:05:43 PM A6MZeroSmash: does anybody here value scotu's opinion?
10:05:45 PM SCOTU42: Done w/ MK?
10:05:45 PM A6MZeroSmash: j/w
10:05:53 PM A6MZeroSmash: ....
10:05:54 PM A6MZeroSmash: lolno
10:05:55 PM JZ Sez: Why wouldn't you?
10:05:55 PM A6MZeroSmash: xD
10:06:00 PM M@V: I guess.... I think its more 65:35, but its **** whicheever way you look at it...
10:06:02 PM A6MZeroSmash: because he's frusterating
10:06:06 PM SCOTU42: Ok, Discussion for MK is officially over
10:06:18 PM SCOTU42: i've got other stuff to do, so thanks guys, and I'll ttyl
10:06:22 PM A6MZeroSmash: that's as long as I can handle talking to-
10:06:22 PM A6MZeroSmash: YAY
10:06:25 PM A6MZeroSmash: leave
10:06:25 PM JZ Sez: Thanks to everyone for participating.
10:06:26 PM A6MZeroSmash: srsly
10:06:32 PM M@V: so 70:30 it is..
10:06:36 PM A6MZeroSmash: ....no
10:06:38 PM A6MZeroSmash: -_-
10:06:39 PM M@V: Ill update out matchup guide tomorrow
10:06:44 PM LIGHT9393: so then 70:30>VS MK>65:35
10:06:51 PM M@V: While Im here...
10:06:57 PM A6MZeroSmash: God ****...I can't stand SCOTU
10:07:00 PM M@V: any suggestions for the next CP/Ban discussion
10:07:09 PM A6MZeroSmash: uhh,
10:07:10 PM A6MZeroSmash: Olimar
10:07:19 PM M@V: Soic is strill pretty heavy
10:07:23 PM M@V: in discussion
10:07:27 PM M@V: so its staying for now
10:07:41 PM LIGHT9393: we never did Mario
10:07:44 PM A6MZeroSmash: anyways
10:07:49 PM LIGHT9393: but I haven't been having trouble with him
10:07:53 PM A6MZeroSmash: SCOTU thinks Fox sucks cause he sucks *** with Fox
10:07:56 PM A6MZeroSmash: ttyl
10:08:02 PM LIGHT9393: hey A6M
10:08:03 PM ZB x R00kie: Haha
10:08:05 PM LIGHT9393: oops nvm
10:08:12 PM ZB x R00kie: He's right
10:08:15 PM M@V: A6M
10:08:21 PM M@V: just dont
10:08:21 PM ZB x R00kie: Yea
10:08:33 PM LIGHT9393: *sigh*
10:08:40 PM ZB x R00kie: Anyway
10:08:41 PM JZ Sez: Eh, let him be.
10:08:47 PM ZB x R00kie: Werd
10:08:52 PM M@V: wait a sec
10:08:58 PM ZB x R00kie: What's next ?
10:09:01 PM M@V: what did i say in thear a6m attacked scotu?
10:09:03 PM M@V: O wait
10:09:06 PM M@V: 1st. It was a friendly
2nd. Scotu almost won
3rd. It was one match
4.Let me see you write up that monster of a guide made by him. Just because someone plays fox mediocre doesn't mean they dont know a lot about him. And who says hes a mediocre fox? he could of just had a bad match. And also, why are you trying to attack a helpful member of the community? You can't deny his contributions. Hate to break your bubble, but one vid doosn't make your argument valid. Its like when Hylian posted a Vid of him beating M2k in friendlies.
10:09:06 PM JZ Sez: Actually, I think that's it, Rookie.
10:09:07 PM ZB x R00kie: For fox?
10:09:16 PM JZ Sez: Scotu planned only MK, really.
10:09:19 PM M@V: thats what i said
10:09:24 PM M@V: and owned his ***
10:09:27 PM JZ Sez: Unless you want to grace us with more advice.
10:09:32 PM JZ Sez: Since you never post on the boards.
10:09:38 PM JZ Sez: :(
10:09:40 PM M@V: A6ms gon
10:09:43 PM M@V: gone*
10:09:48 PM JZ Sez: Why don't you post on the boards, Rookie? We love you. (No homo.)
10:09:54 PM M@V: zhamy you should really post more, just not in fox boards
10:10:01 PM JZ Sez: I'm too lazy.
10:10:03 PM M@V: Your one of the smartest posters i know
10:10:08 PM JZ Sez: But I probably should.
10:10:13 PM ZB x R00kie: Oooooooooo so today was jus a mk disscussion?
10:10:18 PM JZ Sez: Yeah.
10:10:20 PM M@V: yeah
10:10:25 PM ZB x R00kie: **** I love fox too much to stop there
10:10:27 PM JZ Sez: Hell if we're running the entire gauntlet of characters.
10:10:30 PM M@V: We should do G&W or marth next
10:10:30 PM JZ Sez: Hahahahahaha.
10:10:31 PM ZB x R00kie: Haha
10:10:36 PM M@V: I can do **** vs Colays marth
10:10:42 PM M@V: yah you heard me
10:10:49 PM ZB x R00kie: I love fighting marth
10:10:54 PM ZB x R00kie: Melee!!!
10:10:54 PM M@V: I know your reading this sam
10:10:56 PM Colaya1990: <_<
10:11:12 PM M@V: ^
10:11:14 PM JZ Sez: Rookie, do you still play Melee?
10:11:15 PM M@V: that mans marth
10:11:16 PM LIGHT9393: does anyone else feel like Fox just took it up the butt?
10:11:19 PM M@V: owns my fox XD
10:11:20 PM JZ Sez: Regularly/competitively, I mean.
10:11:37 PM ZB x R00kie: Yea
10:11:42 PM LIGHT9393: mk leaves a bad taste in my mouth...
10:11:43 PM ZB x R00kie: I play melee
10:11:56 PM JZ Sez: Wicked.
10:12:00 PM M@V: My best Mk character is probably Zelda
10:12:10 PM M@V: all the spacies suck vs mk
10:12:22 PM M@V: Wolf eats it, fox eats it
10:12:27 PM ZB x R00kie: Fox got the best bet to me
10:12:33 PM M@V: mk just need to plank vs falco
10:12:34 PM M@V: no falco does
10:12:40 PM M@V: but planking screws him
10:12:43 PM ZB x R00kie: Na ****a chain grab
10:12:58 PM ZB x R00kie: Fir flaco sux
10:13:03 PM ZB x R00kie: Fire*
10:13:11 PM LIGHT9393: lol why we were at it we should have done DK
10:13:44 PM M@V: I have to try Zelda more vs MK...
10:13:52 PM LIGHT9393: oh wait i think im the only one here going to participate in sundays tourney
10:13:57 PM LIGHT9393: i need to prepare for it
10:14:02 PM M@V: im going to an airsoft game
10:14:08 PM LIGHT9393: lol i heard
10:14:10 PM M@V: and you all know my opnion of wifi...
10:14:13 PM M@V: anyeay
10:14:16 PM LIGHT9393: lol yeah
10:14:16 PM M@V: anyway*
10:14:20 PM JZ Sez: WiFi is hilarious ****.
10:14:28 PM M@V: it completely wrecks my fox playstyle
10:14:32 PM LIGHT9393: not for Fox...
10:14:34 PM JZ Sez: I pulled a 0-150-death combo in high latency lag.
10:14:34 PM ZB x R00kie: Me too
10:14:39 PM M@V: I use wolf, since I can spam like a madman with him
10:14:39 PM JZ Sez: XD
10:14:40 PM LIGHT9393: it takes me a while to get used to
10:14:41 PM ZB x R00kie: **** wifi
10:14:42 PM M@V: =P
10:14:46 PM M@V: i play like a homo on wifi
10:14:50 PM M@V: because i dont care
10:14:54 PM M@V: xD
10:15:06 PM M@V: or i bring out falcon
10:15:17 PM LIGHT9393: I LUVS THE FALCON
10:15:17 PM M@V: because falcon punch is easy to land
10:15:23 PM M@V: OMG
10:15:24 PM ZB x R00kie: Fawkown wifi
10:15:25 PM M@V: Check this out
10:15:31 PM ZB x R00kie: !!!
10:15:35 PM JZ Sez: !!!
10:15:39 PM LIGHT9393: oh wait i need to upload some vids
10:15:51 PM M@V: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WjKHlslpWY
10:15:53 PM JZ Sez: Light, we should meet up sometime. So you can record my trash as hell Fox.
10:15:57 PM M@V: friendly at my tourney
10:16:00 PM M@V: EPIC
10:16:14 PM M@V: i wasnt in it, but still
10:16:24 PM JZ Sez: Oh ****.
10:16:30 PM Colaya1990: lol.
10:16:31 PM JZ Sez: This is like Ultimate Falcon Match all over again.
10:17:05 PM LIGHT9393: lol
10:17:07 PM LIGHT9393: i love it
10:17:38 PM LIGHT9393: oh yeah zhammy we should totally meet up
10:17:38 PM LIGHT9393: that'd be great
10:17:57 PM JZ Sez: Around where do you live?
10:18:08 PM LIGHT9393: lol here look at this
10:18:08 PM LIGHT9393: its my falcon video i thought it was funny
10:18:08 PM LIGHT9393: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHDnodE1Vwo
10:18:08 PM LIGHT9393: the first part was funny because all you saw was the boke
10:18:15 PM ZB x R00kie: The only true fox main in NYC...I fight nothin but top tiers
10:18:20 PM ZB x R00kie: I love it
10:18:28 PM JZ Sez: Represent.
10:18:32 PM ZB x R00kie: Lmao
10:18:44 PM ZB x R00kie: I hear dat
10:19:03 PM M@V: im going to COT4
10:19:10 PM M@V: I still main fox
10:19:12 PM ZB x R00kie: Me too
10:19:17 PM M@V: but i play a bunch of others
10:19:17 PM JZ Sez: There are no really high level Fox players here.
10:19:19 PM M@V: your going?
10:19:21 PM ZB x R00kie: Im goin str8 fox the whole tourny
10:19:29 PM M@V: We have to ditto
10:19:31 PM M@V: :O
10:19:33 PM M@V: im adding your aim
10:19:40 PM ZB x R00kie: Yes!
10:19:42 PM JZ Sez: Rookie, you're playing against ZSS/Sheik/Pikachu CPs?
10:19:53 PM M@V: I got Zelda/sheik for that
10:19:55 PM JZ Sez: You are ****ing awesome.
10:20:00 PM LIGHT9393: anybody know why i got ejected?
10:20:04 PM M@V: dunno
10:20:09 PM M@V: Im trying to get my falco good
10:20:10 PM ZB x R00kie: Dunno
10:20:14 PM M@V: Falco is too pro
10:20:15 PM LIGHT9393: whos awesome what'd i miss?
10:20:20 PM ZB x R00kie: And yes
10:20:24 PM LIGHT9393: lol
10:20:35 PM ZB x R00kie: If I get zss pika and shiek in my bracket im goin fox still
10:20:48 PM M@V: ZB
10:20:49 PM JZ Sez: You'll probably win unless Anther shows up.
10:20:50 PM ZB x R00kie: Fox is too real...
10:20:53 PM M@V: im going in to win
10:20:54 PM JZ Sez: XD
10:20:56 PM M@V: dunno about you
10:20:57 PM M@V: >_>
10:21:00 PM ZB x R00kie: Werd
10:21:21 PM M@V: I should just main space aniimals
10:21:24 PM ZB x R00kie: I play against snakeee yall know who he is right?
10:21:25 PM M@V: I play them all xD
10:21:50 PM ZB x R00kie: He's considered the zss in the country
10:21:54 PM JZ Sez: Hahahahaha yeah.
10:21:56 PM LIGHT9393: alright guys i g2g
10:21:59 PM M@V: k ttyl
10:22:02 PM JZ Sez: See you, Light.
10:22:03 PM ZB x R00kie: Peace
10:22:04 PM M@V: ZSS isnt THAT bad
10:22:05 PM LIGHT9393: i hoped you liked the falcon vi
10:22:07 PM LIGHT9393: vid*
10:22:14 PM LIGHT9393: or hope rather
10:22:20 PM M@V: the dsmash is easy to get to avoid
10:22:28 PM ZB x R00kie: I practice with snakeee alot
10:22:31 PM LIGHT9393: bye
10:22:34 PM ZB x R00kie: He even admits it
10:22:42 PM M@V: Im going to start trying zelda vs mk
10:22:44 PM M@V: see how that goes
10:22:50 PM M@V: My MK is OK
10:22:52 PM ZB x R00kie: If he can't land the lock then fox got the advantage
10:22:53 PM JZ Sez: **** that, I'm going to play gay pansy Marth against MK.
10:22:54 PM M@V: but it wont win me dittos
10:23:02 PM JZ Sez: Always.
10:23:04 PM M@V: Mk is marths worst matchup...
10:23:07 PM M@V: XD
10:23:07 PM JZ Sez: I know.
10:23:09 PM JZ Sez: XD
10:23:16 PM JZ Sez: But I'm too lazy to learn 3 characters.
10:23:23 PM M@V: YOu know about the fast fall fairs right?
10:23:27 PM JZ Sez: Yeah.
10:23:28 PM M@V: they work good vs mk
10:23:42 PM M@V: I play too many people...
10:24:01 PM M@V: Spacies, Zelda/sheik, peach, samus, ganon, falcon
10:24:13 PM M@V: Lucario kinda, DDD kinda, Mk kinda
10:24:21 PM JZ Sez: I main Fox and secondary Marth, I play everyone else for lulz in one handed friendlies against my friends.
10:24:23 PM ZB x R00kie: Wtf?
10:24:26 PM JZ Sez: I'm no Chu Dat, ghough.
10:24:27 PM JZ Sez: *though.
10:24:28 PM JZ Sez: :(
10:24:33 PM ZB x R00kie: Oh ok
10:24:50 PM M@V: Ninjalink...lol
10:24:53 PM M@V: everyone
10:24:55 PM M@V: he plays
10:25:08 PM ZB x R00kie: Here's the ctach
10:25:11 PM JZ Sez: That Chu Dat one-handed v. Hugs video still makes me laugh.
10:25:14 PM ZB x R00kie: Catch
10:25:18 PM JZ Sez: ?
10:25:19 PM ZB x R00kie: Check this
10:25:51 PM ZB x R00kie: NL play almost everyone but even tho it seems he is nasty with a lot of characters he really isnt
10:25:58 PM M@V: hey i havent heaed anything but
10:25:58 PM ZB x R00kie: I will not knock him tho
10:26:05 PM M@V: is Ken still playing?
10:26:06 PM ZB x R00kie: We are good friends
10:26:11 PM M@V: i know he was busy with survivior
10:26:14 PM JZ Sez: Ninjalink is no Azen lulz.
10:26:14 PM ZB x R00kie: He got **** characters
10:26:16 PM JZ Sez: 39 mains wut
10:26:16 PM M@V: but what about now
10:26:32 PM M@V: Lol frneir
10:26:35 PM ZB x R00kie: Rob,zelda,diddy,marth,
10:26:44 PM ZB x R00kie: NLs best
10:26:54 PM M@V: "theres only one match I know I was going to lose going in , and that was against Azen at MLG"
10:27:01 PM M@V: Good old fenrir
10:27:15 PM JZ Sez: M@v, you might want to correct your response to SBR's stuff.
10:27:19 PM JZ Sez: "
-Get the $$$$ off me. Shine comes out in four frames. It is fox’s best move to get someone off of him."
10:27:21 PM JZ Sez: 3 frames.
10:27:27 PM M@V: i wrote it a while back
10:27:32 PM M@V: i should edit it shouldnt i xD
10:27:40 PM JZ Sez: And Fair can be SDIed out of, unfortunately.
10:28:14 PM JZ Sez: You know, it seems like NorCal has pretty trash players lately.
10:28:18 PM JZ Sez: No one's really that good at Brawl.
10:28:19 PM JZ Sez: :/
10:29:07 PM M@V: by the way
10:29:21 PM M@V: you know the top 2 for fox in the character rankings?
10:29:29 PM JZ Sez: ?
10:29:32 PM M@V: <-----yours truly =P
10:29:32 PM JZ Sez: All you?
10:29:37 PM JZ Sez: Nice, M@V.
10:29:47 PM M@V: The top 2 and one of the top 8s
10:29:50 PM M@V: are me
10:29:52 PM JZ Sez: WHY ISN'T THAT A FIRST PLACE?
10:29:59 PM M@V: dude...
10:30:01 PM JZ Sez: YOU'RE SLACKING. PLAY MORE. WORK HARDER.
10:30:03 PM M@V: i got...owned...
10:30:05 PM M@V: LOL
10:30:13 PM M@V: i got ***** 6-0 in the finals
10:30:16 PM M@V: by a mk
10:30:19 PM JZ Sez: Holy ****.
10:30:22 PM JZ Sez: That bad?
10:30:26 PM M@V: I couldnt do jack ****
10:30:36 PM M@V: He played falco twice, but he barely won
10:30:39 PM M@V: then he went mk
10:30:43 PM M@V: i got *****
10:30:47 PM JZ Sez: LOL
10:30:53 PM M@V: i still got $100 bucks though =P
10:31:01 PM JZ Sez: True.
10:31:03 PM ZB x R00kie: Hahaha
10:31:15 PM M@V: yeah, that left a bad taste in my mouth
10:31:37 PM M@V: my winners finals matches are up though
10:31:43 PM M@V: and vs that falco...
10:31:49 PM M@V: holy crap was he good.
10:31:52 PM ZB x R00kie: what state
10:32:04 PM M@V: My tourney was in PA
10:32:05 PM JZ Sez: Penn.
10:32:09 PM M@V: but some ppl came from ohio
10:32:15 PM M@V: and 1 or two from maryland
10:32:24 PM M@V: 34 brawl entrants
10:32:24 PM JZ Sez: I missed the big NorCal tourney. **** me.
10:32:26 PM JZ Sez: <_<
10:32:27 PM JZ Sez: >_>
10:32:32 PM M@V: I got 2nd :-)
10:32:40 PM JZ Sez: M@v, you any good at Melee?
10:32:42 PM ZB x R00kie: I got all that
10:32:50 PM JZ Sez: I think I forgot how to L-Cancel, I haven't played in so long.
10:32:55 PM Colaya1990: .....
10:33:00 PM JZ Sez: Sh.
10:33:04 PM M@V: 1.) Byaa! (Metaknight)
2.) M@v (Fox)
3.) ithrowthings (Sonic)
4.) Bowz (Falco)
5.) Phoenix Dark (Sonic)
5.) GW jumpman (R.O.B)
7.) Brad King (Snake)
7.) L (Snake)
9.) Camalange (Sonic)
9.) Vario (DDD)
9.) Skipper (Metaknight)
9.) Kawaii (Fox)
13.) Greg(Lucario)
10:33:06 PM JZ Sez: Don't tell anyone.
10:33:10 PM M@V: rsults for top 10
10:33:16 PM M@V: 3 sonic lmfao
10:33:17 PM JZ Sez: So many sonics.
10:33:18 PM JZ Sez: Seriously.
10:33:32 PM M@V: want to know why sonics 10th in the rankings?
10:33:36 PM M@V: this tourney lmao
10:33:40 PM JZ Sez: LOL.
10:33:40 PM ZB x R00kie: U gotta play blue kai and malcom
10:33:51 PM ZB x R00kie: Blue, kai, and malcom
10:33:51 PM M@V: a fox got 9th too
10:33:54 PM M@V: good ****
10:33:59 PM ZB x R00kie: Oh excuse me
10:34:11 PM ZB x R00kie: Blue, wes, kai, and malcom
10:34:16 PM JZ Sez: Wes still plays?
10:34:19 PM ZB x R00kie: Best 4 sonic on the east coast
10:34:20 PM JZ Sez: THE Wes?
10:34:27 PM ZB x R00kie: Hell yes
10:34:34 PM ZB x R00kie: That ***** *****
10:34:39 PM ZB x R00kie: Yea samus wes
10:34:44 PM ZB x R00kie: Mains sonic
10:34:49 PM JZ Sez: ****.
10:34:51 PM M@V: so many sonics came to mine
10:34:53 PM ZB x R00kie: Me and him train alooooooot
10:34:54 PM JZ Sez: I haven't heard about him in forever.
10:34:59 PM M@V: hell
10:35:00 PM ZB x R00kie: Werd
10:35:04 PM M@V: kinzaer was supposed to come too
10:35:09 PM ZB x R00kie: Fox vs sonic is the ****
10:35:09 PM M@V: kinzer*
10:35:15 PM ZB x R00kie: So fast
10:35:18 PM M@V: did you watch my 2 sonic matches
10:35:20 PM M@V: in the tourney?
10:35:29 PM JZ Sez: Yeah, I watched them.
10:35:29 PM M@V: One was the winners final
10:35:30 PM ZB x R00kie: Na I'll watch em tomorrow...
10:35:33 PM M@V: its all abotu punishing
10:35:35 PM JZ Sez: I was surprised they took so long.
10:35:40 PM ZB x R00kie: Im on my sidekick
10:35:40 PM M@V: Thats basically all I did...
10:35:42 PM JZ Sez: Seriously, I expected 1:30 matches.
10:35:48 PM JZ Sez: ****, seriously, Rookie?
10:35:48 PM M@V: waiting for them to miss me
10:35:50 PM JZ Sez: You type FAST
10:35:53 PM M@V: and screw up
10:37:37 PM ZB x R00kie: U talkin bout the sidekick
10:37:43 PM ZB x R00kie: ?
10:37:48 PM ZB x R00kie: Hahaha
10:37:51 PM M@V: heh
10:37:56 PM JZ Sez: Yeah.
10:38:01 PM ZB x R00kie: Haha
10:38:06 PM ZB x R00kie: Werd
10:38:12 PM M@V: Why the hell do i take a video game so seriously?
10:38:15 PM M@V: lol
10:38:17 PM ZB x R00kie: Kickin it to too many *****es on this ****
10:38:28 PM ZB x R00kie: I got the answer
10:38:43 PM M@V: **** im a nerd. oh well
10:39:00 PM ZB x R00kie: Just like the way I do...I like the fam...the rep...the skill...the money...the accomplishments
10:39:05 PM JZ Sez: Dude, why do some people take sports so seriously?
10:39:08 PM JZ Sez: They're sports nerds.
10:39:10 PM ZB x R00kie: Fame*
10:39:11 PM M@V: lol
10:39:14 PM JZ Sez: Why do some people take chess so seriously?
10:39:17 PM JZ Sez: They're chess nerds.
10:39:19 PM ZB x R00kie: Hahaha
10:39:20 PM JZ Sez: Nothing wrong with it.
10:39:23 PM M@V: Lol chess
10:39:27 PM M@V: Im ok at it
10:39:27 PM ZB x R00kie: That's funny
10:39:45 PM M@V: heck, Ive won almost $200 at smahs so far
10:39:50 PM JZ Sez: Chess teaches you good stuff about fighting games.
10:39:54 PM M@V: 3rd doubles, 1st doubles, 2nd singles
10:40:02 PM M@V: 3 payouts for me
10:40:09 PM M@V: btw, fox olimar is a **** team
10:40:55 PM JZ Sez: Although I claim most of my experience from playing Street Fighter 3 and more traditional fighters.
10:41:12 PM M@V: Smash is the only fighter i like
10:41:14 PM M@V: Btw.
10:41:23 PM M@V: played smash 64 yesterday
10:41:29 PM M@V: Fox rocks.
10:41:43 PM ZB x R00kie: Smash is the only fighter to recreate king of the hill
10:41:52 PM Colaya1990: I like Soul calibur and Bloody Roar. xD
10:41:56 PM JZ Sez: Fox needs his Fsmash back.
10:42:02 PM Colaya1990: OH.
10:42:05 PM Colaya1990: Power stone.
10:42:07 PM JZ Sez: Does no one here play traditional fighters?
10:42:11 PM M@V: his fsmash in 64...is like wolfs in brawl...
10:42:17 PM M@V: i was like WHOAH
10:42:25 PM Colaya1990: Has anyone played Powerstone......
10:42:26 PM JZ Sez: No blockstrings? No shield pressure? No okemi?
10:42:28 PM JZ Sez: I've played Powerstone.
10:42:30 PM JZ Sez: IT ROCKS
10:42:34 PM Colaya1990: Yes, it does.
10:42:58 PM Colaya1990: It rocks pretty **** hard.
10:43:21 PM JZ Sez: But you'll never see that played competitively.
10:43:28 PM Colaya1990: Duh.
10:43:31 PM Colaya1990: Items....
10:43:32 PM Colaya1990: xD
10:43:41 PM Colaya1990: Make up the entire fight.
10:44:05 PM JZ Sez: Yep.
10:54:32 PM M@V: well im heading out guys
10:54:34 PM M@V: ttyl
10:54:48 PM ZB x R00kie: Peace
10:54:51 PM M@V: colyas going back to college on sunday, gotta whip him a couple times before he goes
10:54:52 PM M@V: =P
10:55:01 PM ZB x R00kie: Nice
10:55:12 PM M@V: anyway, im out
