Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[ilikcereal101]

You guys have any advice with the marth and sheik matchup, I really struggle with the math match up but I can win the sheik match up most the time. Thx :D

 

[Eonn]

Is there any trick to re grabbing other spacies at low percent on DI away/behind? The first few throws feel impossible to regrab on.

Also, how do I tell if I did my waveshine properly? I usually end up with my opponent just out of my shine range and the combo counter won't increase (I'm wave shining falcon for practice)

 

[BRUJO~]

Is there any trick to re grabbing other spacies at low percent on DI away/behind? The first few throws feel impossible to regrab on.

Also, how do I tell if I did my waveshine properly? I usually end up with my opponent just out of my shine range and the combo counter won't increase (I'm wave shining falcon for practice)

You just need to memorize the exact moment when you can dash out of up throw. It comes with time and practice.

For the waveshine, it means your wavedash wasn't long enough. If you do a perfec length wavedash, you will end up in shine range of falcon. If you cannot consistently perfect waveshine, you can walk forward a bit after wavedashing to get in shine range.

 

[Eonn]

You just need to memorize the exact moment when you can dash out of up throw. It comes with time and practice.

For the waveshine, it means your wavedash wasn't long enough. If you do a perfec length wavedash, you will end up in shine range of falcon. If you cannot consistently perfect waveshine, you can walk forward a bit after wavedashing to get in shine range.

Thanks! I never bothered trying to dash forward and always let the animation finish completely.

And my wave shinjng is getting a bit better, I find it easier to let my stick return to neutral and then input a wavedash whereas before I was sliding my analogue stick and constantly failing or doing s poor WD

 

[bearsfan092]

Does anyone know of any resource that handles tech chasing as Fox on characters that get knocked down by shine? I'm thinking stuff like Gravy's Falcon tech chase treatment here at http://smashboards.com/threads/tech-chasing-like-a-man-complete-breakdown.382475/.

Just trying to get better punishes off of stray nairs and shines

 

[qpMONKEYMIKEqp]

Question about shine grabs. i was practicing my fox (secondary to my marth) and working on out of shine options like waveshines, shine upsmash, waveshine upsmash, sheild pressure, and i could feel big improvement but i can not get shinegrabs off? i can just waveshine grab but i want to be able to shinegrab. Idk if my timing is off but i would think the timing would be the same as a shine upsmash?

 

[BRUJO~]

Question about shine grabs. i was practicing my fox (secondary to my marth) and working on out of shine options like waveshines, shine upsmash, waveshine upsmash, sheild pressure, and i could feel big improvement but i can not get shinegrabs off? i can just waveshine grab but i want to be able to shinegrab. Idk if my timing is off but i would think the timing would be the same as a shine upsmash?

The jump>grab input has the same timing as a regular jump cancel grab iirc

 

[ilikcereal101]

I had and still have trouble with shine grab as well because I always hit the grab and jump button at the same time like Brujo said it is just like a JC grab

 

[Pάρί]

Does anyone know of any resource that handles tech chasing as Fox on characters that get knocked down by shine? I'm thinking stuff like Gravy's Falcon tech chase treatment here at http://smashboards.com/threads/tech-chasing-like-a-man-complete-breakdown.382475/.

Just trying to get better punishes off of stray nairs and shines

I have this question too, someone please answer this!

 

[BRUJO~]

Fox's downsmash can be amsah-teched, right?

 

[Stijn]

I don't really know if this place is still active, but I'd like to ask you Fox mains to critic my set against Remen. I've really been struggling against Falco and I hope some of you can help me out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfywc91WgBs

 

[gmBottles]

Fox's downsmash can be amsah-teched, right?

I think it can, but I'm not 100% sure. Maybe only at lower percents?

 

[~Twitch~]

Fox's downsmash can be amsah-teched, right?

Ohhhhhh yes it can. At least until 150% it can be and probably much longer

 

[tauKhan]

Yes, the dsmash has low enough kb angle that it's basically always possible to tech it; in fact you can tech it at so high kbs that you die anyway even if you manage to tech roll.

 

[Pάρί]

What's a good way to practice shine tech chasing (Following where opponent goes after shine) w/ fox?

 

[BRUJO~]

Yes, the dsmash has low enough kb angle that it's basically always possible to tech it; in fact you can tech it at so high kbs that you die anyway even if you manage to tech roll.

What about Fox nair?

 

[tauKhan]

Much more percentage dependent since it's sakurai angled (44° at high kbs on grounded enemy). Fox should still be able to amsah tech it at 185%(post hit) if I calculated correctly.

 

[TrevR]

Is there a place where I can post a video of my play and have it critiqued by somebody? I feel like I've seen a thread like that here, but I'm not able to find it right now. Can anybody help?

 

[CeLL]

Is it possible to cover a spacies' downward sweetspot with up B from onstage?

 

[JC Shine Studios]

Is it possible to cover a spacies' downward sweetspot with up B from onstage?

Angled ftilt, dsmash very close to the ledge, or trying to poke them out with bair are all solid options depending on their approach angle / distance from the stage.


Is it possible to punish Marth's dtilt with CC --> wavedash --> shine? If so, how airtight is it? If not possible at tipper range is it possible if the Marth spaces it poorly? What about OoS punishes? Thanks!

 

[Cres]

Angled ftilt, dsmash very close to the ledge, or trying to poke them out with bair are all solid options depending on their approach angle / distance from the stage.


Is it possible to punish Marth's dtilt with CC --> wavedash --> shine? If so, how airtight is it? If not possible at tipper range is it possible if the Marth spaces it poorly? What about OoS punishes? Thanks!

Ima just piggy back off this question, someone pls answer

 

[bearsfan092]

Angled ftilt, dsmash very close to the ledge, or trying to poke them out with bair are all solid options depending on their approach angle / distance from the stage.


Is it possible to punish Marth's dtilt with CC --> wavedash --> shine? If so, how airtight is it? If not possible at tipper range is it possible if the Marth spaces it poorly? What about OoS punishes? Thanks!

Definitely possible if spaced poorly because it happens somewhat frequently when both are dash dancing and both decide to do their running shines and dtilts. Heat of battle sometimes results in a misspaced dtilt.

My intuition says you won't realistically be getting it if Marth does it fully spaced. By the way, if you're able to call Marth's dtilt with CC, you can do it with drill too and combo out of it, so keep both in mind.

 

[JC Shine Studios]

the CC is reactionary

 

[SSB Pride]

Tips on improving Waveshining

 

[ilikcereal101]

hitting the with fox you have to press the air dodge button right after the jump button if you want a perfect wavedash and once you master wavedashing with fox it will be a breeze with marth.

 

[Pάρί]

Hey bois, what are your tech skill practice sessions? Id like to know to tweak my a bit.

Also how do you guys get that fire back in you? I've felt a little uninspired lately idk

 

[ilikcereal101]

It depends where I'm at I accel st wave shining so I don't practice that as much I mostly work on SH out of shine because that's what I struggle with

 

[DannyBoi]

Im new to Fox and Falco and i cant find how to get 17 degree angles... How do you do that?

 

[DannyBoi]

and Falco and i cant find how to get 17 degree angles... How do you do that?

 

[Tushy]

I've got a few questions if anyone could take the time to help.

1. Who can fox Waveshine into Waveshine?
2. What are good follow ups on characters you can't chain Waveshine on?
3. What are good setups to land shines?
4. What aerial(s) are best for shield pressure?
5. Does run grabbing instead of JC grabbing effect chain grabs on Fox/Falco?
6. What are some things I should and can practice alone with 20XX? (Explain how to practice it if you can.)
7. At low percents, what should I be approaching with?
8. What are some of the worst mistakes beginner-intermediate Foxes make?
9. When should double shines be used?
10. What are good edge guarding techniques? (On stage, from ledge, and off stage.)

Thanks in advanced to those who answer any of these.

 

[BRUJO~]

I've got a few questions if anyone could take the time to help.

1. Who can fox Waveshine into Waveshine?
2. What are good follow ups on characters you can't chain Waveshine on?
3. What are good setups to land shines?
4. What aerial(s) are best for shield pressure?
5. Does run grabbing instead of JC grabbing effect chain grabs on Fox/Falco?
6. What are some things I should and can practice alone with 20XX? (Explain how to practice it if you can.)
7. At low percents, what should I be approaching with?
8. What are some of the worst mistakes beginner-intermediate Foxes make?
9. When should double shines be used?
10. What are good edge guarding techniques? (On stage, from ledge, and off stage.)

Thanks in advanced to those who answer any of these.

1) Peach/Falcon/Ganon/Sheik/Mario/Doc/Bowser/Yoshi/DK/Link/Zelda/Samus/Ness. Also Marth, but you have to dash>jc shine, which is hard
2)Thunder's combo at percents where you can jab reset. Other than than, just tech chase like you would in any other situation.
3) Drill, nair, crouch cancel. Even just dash dance>shine is really good.
4) Depends. nair or dair probably though. Shine is obviously the best shield pressure tool. Also remember that when you pressure someone's shield, the goal is to either A) read that they are going to hold shield and get a grab, or B) read when they will use an oos option/what option they will choose, and punish it.
5)Always jc grab for cg's. Certain percents require it, it is better in every way as far as cg's are concerned.
6) http://smashboards.com/threads/falco-discussion-thread.256826/page-439#post-14739329. This question is a little too vague, what specifically do you want to practice?
7) nair if they aren't cc'ing, dair if they are cc'ing, dash dance shine or grab, spaced bair. Also, mix in fake approaches to bait, which can be done with a double jump feint, wd back, dash dance, circle jump, and many other strategies. THere is no one way to approach, it is about mix ups and recognizing what your opponent is doing so you know which approaches will work against their tendencies.
8) Predictability and inconsistency. Tech flubs are more common with fox than any other character. Just because Fox has amazing approach options, if you telegraph that you will approach you will be countered.
9) On shield when you think they will grab/jump oos after the first shine. At the edge, it sends them at a more sharply downwards angle than single shine does.
10)shine spike. Crouch cancel dsmash/shine spike against characters like luigi or marth. back air from the ledge. use fire fox edge stalling to maintain invincibility on the ledge. There are too many to count, giving a specific match up or situation would help someone tell you the most beneficial edgeguards for that situation.

 

[Pάρί]

Is it possible to do a turn around shine, on the second shine of a double shine?

 

[CeLL]

Is it possible to do a turn around shine, on the second shine of a double shine?

https://youtu.be/xwDHs6UXgR8?t=64 You can turn around during any shine but it delays your jump out of it by (iirc) 3 frames.

 

[Gearitz]

So I just started training as fox today and made some good progress I can do 20 shs in a row, 20 sh l-cancels, 10 shffls, and 3 wds.

But I had an idea for a daily training regiment till I get the fundamentals down.

20 sh and 20 sh l cancels for warm ups, 20 shffls, 5 wave lands, and wd across pokemon stadium back and forth.

What should I add to this or lengthen? I'm not looking to make this any easier on me I want to get good and fast no matter the amount of time or dedication it takes.

 

[~Twitch~]

So I just started training as fox today and made some good progress I can do 20 shs in a row, 20 sh l-cancels, 10 shffls, and 3 wds.

But I had an idea for a daily training regiment till I get the fundamentals down.

20 sh and 20 sh l cancels for warm ups, 20 shffls, 5 wave lands, and wd across pokemon stadium back and forth.

What should I add to this or lengthen? I'm not looking to make this any easier on me I want to get good and fast no matter the amount of time or dedication it takes.

I'd suggest instead of making it a stringent regimen that you should take note of what you do wrong in tourney matches or friendlies and build it on that. I just think you should build it more around your growth as a player rather than organization for the sake of organization although that is important

 

[Pάρί]

http://youtu.be/9q2dAueeGj8

Can someone explain to me how he does this stuff, and if it's useful in game?

 

[Gearitz]

I'd suggest instead of making it a stringent regimen that you should take note of what you do wrong in tourney matches or friendlies and build it on that. I just think you should build it more around your growth as a player rather than organization for the sake of organization although that is important

I already know my main problem is not using enough tech and being too aggressive I just don't feel confident in my tech. I just don't have the skill yet to play as aggressively as I want and I feel if I learn enough tech to pressure my opponent I can play aggressively and cause them to play how I want to so I can dictate pace.

 

[Kiusthugs]

how long did it take for you guys to get the gist of foxs short hop? im still having trouble.

 

[Gearitz]

how long did it take for you guys to get the gist of foxs short hop? im still having trouble.

For me it took one day I just did shs for hours though with every aerial I did a sh at least 100 times just to get the feeling I do it by pressing with the tip of my thumb and lightly drag across x it hurt till I built a callus there. I wouldn't recommend that unless you're gonna go crazy over it.

 

[Kiusthugs]

For me it took one day I just did shs for hours though with every aerial I did a sh at least 100 times just to get the feeling I do it by pressing with the tip of my thumb and lightly drag across x it hurt till I built a callus there. I wouldn't recommend that unless you're gonna go crazy over it.

Yeah, I try to restrict my thumb from putting too much pressure and I get some sort of a thumb cramp? But yeah it hurts for me to do it too