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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

Sleepy Driz

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 24, 2014
Messages
62
Location
Gainesville, FL
So I was practicing my drill shine infinite today and I noticed after L canceling and holding down, I can flick my right thumb across B A and X and get a shine jump canceled by a short hop (the A is ignored since you're in shine) quite consistently. Does anyone else do this and do you think it's a viable way of doing Fox shffl's with shines in between quickly?
 

BRUJO~

Smash Apprentice
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Apr 24, 2015
Messages
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Location
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Can Fox tech chase puff on reaction with down throw? It seems like I can against cpu's, but I don't see anyone do it in real matches.
 

~Twitch~

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
4,106
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cullowhee, nc western carolina university
Can Fox tech chase puff on reaction with down throw? It seems like I can against cpu's, but I don't see anyone do it in real matches.
This is something you used to see foxes do back in the day but not as much now. M2k was doing it a little bit to hbox today at paragon iirc so you could check those vids out. But yeah puff's tech roll is sub par so it's pretty easy to react to in a match with a little experience.
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,349
Can someone tell me what shield di is and how to do it?
There are 2 types of shield di: Shield sdi and shield asdi, which both work similarly to their normal counterparts. For example to shield sdi right, you smash input right during shield hitlag. The differences are that shield [A]SDI moves you about half the length of the normal A/SDI and shield A/SDI is (naturally) restricted to horizontal values.
 
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bearsfan092

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 1, 2012
Messages
402
Upthrow tech chase on platform frame data help please.

Assume Battlefield, upthrowing opposing Fox/Falco onto platform with low damage (~20). I follow up with upair and miss due to side tech roll. One option is to dash attack tech rolls to the side. I don't know if this is strictly supported by the frame data, but a lot of things aren't but still see use.

My question: is it possible to get a grab instead? I do it a lot in actual matches, but my spidey senses are telling me that it might be due to the opponent being slow. I ask because grab leads to better punishes compared to dash attack. Trying it on 20XX CPUs, but it seems I'm getting a lot of my grabs because they do the getup-instant shine thing. That kind of reinforces my suspicion of it not being real, or that I'm slow.

Man I should really learn to analyze frame data.
 
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KingNinja

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
22
Location
Thomasville, NC
Can someone link me or show me how to shine out of sheild I have no idea how and I can't seem to find out how. And can somebody explain how its is useful
 

BRUJO~

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
165
Location
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Can someone link me or show me how to shine out of sheild I have no idea how and I can't seem to find out how. And can somebody explain how its is useful
It's easiest if you use c stick up to jump out of shield, cause then you can just immediately move your finger to the b button. You just have to shine on the fourth frame after you jump. Too early the shine won't come out, too late it will be airborne. Just practice and you'll get the timing.

Its useful because its fox's fastest hitbox that he can do out of shield, so its the fastest option to punish a laggy move on shield. Also, shine is a ridiculously great set up move against every character, so any way you can get a shine is good. Does that make sense?
 

KingNinja

Smash Rookie
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Messages
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Location
Thomasville, NC
It's easiest if you use c stick up to jump out of shield, cause then you can just immediately move your finger to the b button. You just have to shine on the fourth frame after you jump. Too early the shine won't come out, too late it will be airborne. Just practice and you'll get the timing.

Its useful because its fox's fastest hitbox that he can do out of shield, so its the fastest option to punish a laggy move on shield. Also, shine is a ridiculously great set up move against every character, so any way you can get a shine is good. Does that make sense?
Yes thank you that will help
 

BRUJO~

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
165
Location
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Yes thank you that will help
The hardest part for me was not getting the actual shine out of shield, it was learning to link it into a waveshine upsmash or thunders combo, thats where is is really hard but also the most useful
 

qpMONKEYMIKEqp

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Messages
38
Location
West Carrollton City, Ohio
I am have been playing fox more and his fundamentals are coming to me very fast and his speed really seems to fit my style of play and just feel fluid. I had some questions on some fox tech.

WaveShines: When i wave shine i slide my finger from B to X. When i am not hitting an opponent i can wave shine fine. but when i hit something i do not jump out of shine? am i sliding my finger too fast or slow? I know some people slide from b to Y or rock their finger between those buttons do jump out of shines. which is the best way to perform this. I do this method from watching westballz i think and after that i thought it was the easiest way for me to jump out of shine. B to Y doesnt feel right but if that the best way i will grind it.

short hop double laser: Its crazy to me how fast you have to throw out the laser after short hopping =P. is the best method for this just sliding from Y to B then hitting B again? idk why i have a problem with Y and B hah. My fingers get stuck on the buttons so maybe i should slide from Y to B lighter?

Sorry if im interrupting all the 20XX with my n00b questions =P
 

Dolla Pills

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
894
Location
Connecticut
I am have been playing fox more and his fundamentals are coming to me very fast and his speed really seems to fit my style of play and just feel fluid. I had some questions on some fox tech.

WaveShines: When i wave shine i slide my finger from B to X. When i am not hitting an opponent i can wave shine fine. but when i hit something i do not jump out of shine? am i sliding my finger too fast or slow? I know some people slide from b to Y or rock their finger between those buttons do jump out of shines. which is the best way to perform this. I do this method from watching westballz i think and after that i thought it was the easiest way for me to jump out of shine. B to Y doesnt feel right but if that the best way i will grind it.

short hop double laser: Its crazy to me how fast you have to throw out the laser after short hopping =P. is the best method for this just sliding from Y to B then hitting B again? idk why i have a problem with Y and B hah. My fingers get stuck on the buttons so maybe i should slide from Y to B lighter?

Sorry if im interrupting all the 20XX with my n00b questions =P
You are jumping too fast after shining because once you hit something you will go through a few frames of hitlag, so your jump input is mostly likely being eaten up during that time.

As for shdl I use claw so I can't really give advice on that.
 

BRUJO~

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
165
Location
PNW
I am have been playing fox more and his fundamentals are coming to me very fast and his speed really seems to fit my style of play and just feel fluid. I had some questions on some fox tech.

WaveShines: When i wave shine i slide my finger from B to X. When i am not hitting an opponent i can wave shine fine. but when i hit something i do not jump out of shine? am i sliding my finger too fast or slow? I know some people slide from b to Y or rock their finger between those buttons do jump out of shines. which is the best way to perform this. I do this method from watching westballz i think and after that i thought it was the easiest way for me to jump out of shine. B to Y doesnt feel right but if that the best way i will grind it.

short hop double laser: Its crazy to me how fast you have to throw out the laser after short hopping =P. is the best method for this just sliding from Y to B then hitting B again? idk why i have a problem with Y and B hah. My fingers get stuck on the buttons so maybe i should slide from Y to B lighter?

Sorry if im interrupting all the 20XX with my n00b questions =P
I think shdl is best with y>b, but easiest with tap jump
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,349
1. SHFFL
2. Hold up + slightly back on control stick
3. Press A after landing lag + at least 1 extra frame (required for the turn) has passed.

I also recommend learning the control stick angle that causes both turn and uptilt without jumping so that you can do fast turn uptilt from walk for example.
 
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Dextrose

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
38
Location
Michigan
Just a random question, but what is faster, run into shine (when inputted regularly, e.g crouch + b) or JC shine?
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,349
run -> shine hits immediately, run -> crouch -> shine is frame 3 (if perfect execution), run jump shine hits frame 4. Basically never do jump shine when already running, jump shine is useful for short distances out of dash.
 

CeLL

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
1,026
Location
Washington
http://gfycat.com/WearyJollyHerring

Is this just a normal waveshine? If not what's the difference? How do you do it? ((Someone told me this is a infinite, I just want confirmation if it or not))
That's just a normal waveshine, it combos into itself on a handful of characters. And yeah on Peach you can 0-death her with waveshines, though it can get hard if they SDI really well.
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,349
http://gfycat.com/WearyJollyHerring

Is this just a normal waveshine? If not what's the difference? How do you do it? ((Someone told me this is a infinite, I just want confirmation if it or not))
It's two shine wd into walk -> shine wd dash jump shine (to get behind peach) -> wd backwards turn dash jump shine wd shine.

The dash jump shine into wd back to reverse the direction is quite tricky, but otherwise just normal waveshines. Btw you can figure that stuff out yourself by playing the gif frame by frame.
 

sneako

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Messages
1
I've got a question about up throw up air on jiggs. Sometimes right after I perform an upthrow fox will crouch down almost as if he wavedashed into the ground(a poof of smoke is around him). Does anyone know why this is happening?
 

Pάρί

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
87
Location
San Antonio, Texas
Whats shadow boxing and how do I do it? (I need a clear definition) and how can it help my fox play?

Also how can I get better and up-throw up air? It just seems super hard doing it on Puff lol
 
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~Twitch~

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
4,106
Location
cullowhee, nc western carolina university
Whats shadow boxing and how do I do it? (I need a clear definition) and how can it help my fox play?

Also how can I get better and up-throw up air? It just seems super hard doing it on Puff lol
Shadow boxing in the clearest form is doing movement patterns alone, imagining how an opponent might react to what you are doing and taking steps to counter and just thinking like that infinitely.

For example, say you start with a dash back. Then you might imagine that your opponent responds with aggression or a shffl nair or grab or whatever but forward motion as the core. Then your next step would be a fh bair or a wd back shffl nair or something that might counter his approach. And it just keeps itself going with that mentality because there's always something you do that your opponent may have predicted and you just need to imagine what they might have done to counter your thoughts in response over and over again.

Uairing puff is difficult definitely. The biggest part of Uairing here though is keeping track of how you jump into her. At low percents a single fh into uair is the best way to do it usually and you can just keep Uairing at her because lol puff. But at mid-high percents it gets a lot trickier. Bthrow and fthrow and even dthrow can be much better throw options a lot of the time at higher percents just because it's unexpected and you can do a surprising amount of follow ups on these even and sdi won't screw you over as much. But if you have to uthrow uair at higher percents then it's best to either double jump and uair very far into puffs body or try and time a second hit uair which you would have to start near the beginning of the double jump usually.
 

Chainz

Sleepy Chainz
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What some good hand positions you guys use when multi shining? For me, I switch to the claw real quick, but still find it hard to land some clean multi shines. Is the claw the recommended way to do it? Or should I try out some other inputs?
 

BRUJO~

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
165
Location
PNW
What some good hand positions you guys use when multi shining? For me, I switch to the claw real quick, but still find it hard to land some clean multi shines. Is the claw the recommended way to do it? Or should I try out some other inputs?
I just use a normal hand position. It's not too hard to just move your thumb from y to b quickly
 

gmBottles

Fun Haver
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What some good hand positions you guys use when multi shining? For me, I switch to the claw real quick, but still find it hard to land some clean multi shines. Is the claw the recommended way to do it? Or should I try out some other inputs?
I just hold the controller normally and swipe quickly from Y to B. I used to switch to claw as well, but I realized that it is easier to just hold it regularly.
 

BRUJO~

Smash Apprentice
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I was watching Hax vs Vanz at Nebulous, and Hax had a really interesting combo (on peach if you dont know vanz)

He did uthrow>dair>utilt. I had considered using dair when they are in the air to continue combos, but never thought to use it out of uthrow. Obviously it will be sdi'able, so doing it predictably would be a bad idea, but if it was a mixup do you think anyone would realistically be able to sdi on reaction? Are there any Foxes that do this often? And is there a reason I don't frequently see it?

I would like to check to see what characters it will true combo on and at what percents/DI's, but I don't know how to find this out. Does anyone have tips for researching this?

If this is something that can be done reliably, it would be a fantastic resource. If the dair ends before either characters land, it would probably lead into an uptilt (because fox would land first, being the fastfaller). If both characters land during the drill, it would be like a grounded drill which could be followed by shine/grab/upsmash
 
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Chainz

Sleepy Chainz
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I was watching Hax vs Vanz at Nebulous, and Hax had a really interesting combo (on peach if you dont know vanz)

He did uthrow>dair>utilt. I had considered using dair when they are in the air to continue combos, but never thought to use it out of uthrow. Obviously it will be sdi'able, so doing it predictably would be a bad idea, but if it was a mixup do you think anyone would realistically be able to sdi on reaction? Are there any Foxes that do this often? And is there a reason I don't frequently see it?
If you do at random, then they probably won't catch on. For example, something I do on Battlefield. At the start of the match, if my opponent drops from the platform onto the main stage, I'll drop down and do a quick Illusion their way, then follow up with an up-tilt into something. Works everytime unless I **** up or do it too often on the same guy, lol.

It mainly depends on who you're playing against. Personally, I've never tried that up-throw into dair before. So I can't really say man. But from what i've been told, Up-throw into dair ain't really recommended.
 

~Twitch~

Smash Master
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Yeah generally if your opponent has competent sdi then this isn't gonna work. Usually when I do uthrow -> dair comboes I try to fall with the dair into a platform so I can edge cancel then instant aerial but I usually reserve that for friendly cheese lol or if I'm feeling really confident in a tourney match.

The only reason I can really imagine hax doing it is just him being out of practice or it being the heat of the moment bad decision. I don't recommend it.
 

gmBottles

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The only reason I can really imagine hax doing it is just him being out of practice or it being the heat of the moment bad decision. I don't recommend it.
Actually I think it was a great decision. Not that it's something you should try often of course, as everyone has said, however I do think it is good as a mixup. He probably knew that it would catch him off guard and he wouldn't SDI out in time.

Either that or Hax was just being Hax and tryna swag, that's definitely a possibility.
 

BRUJO~

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Wouldn't it be really hard to SDI it if you didn't see it coming? Maybe I underestimate people's reaction times...
 

Chainz

Sleepy Chainz
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Wouldn't it be really hard to SDI it if you didn't see it coming? Maybe I underestimate people's reaction times...
For lower level players, probably. But experienced players would more than likely react on the spot.
 

~Twitch~

Smash Master
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Well after uthrow people are generally in a defensive mode anyway so I think it's reasonable to say they'd be ready to sdi anything that was coming and react if it was a drill.

Also Idk I've tried uthrow drill a couple times and I usually can't get it to work even as a mixup. I just don't really like it. You guys can feel free to experiment tho I think it's a cool concept
 

jyh

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 25, 2015
Messages
3
What's the trick to grabbing the ledge with shine-turnaround up b? I can't do it consistently. My up b either ends up too high above the ledge or I get stuck turning around in shine.
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
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SDI is not even the only problem for the uthrow dair. Dair simply does too little stun with too long ending lag. For example dair utilt barely combos on peach (2 frame window). So in order for the combo to really work you would have to hit her quite low. But if you do that, she'll impact land from the dair and have frame advantage. You can't have much height at all after the last hit, or she'll be able to nair you before your utilt comes out.

It might still work in very specific conditions, but I don't think it could ever be very reliable.
 

BRUJO~

Smash Apprentice
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Does anyone have tips on how to get throw follow ups against falcon? Upthrow to set up tech chase on platforms, and upthrow bair/upair at high percents are my two go-to options. At low percents and when there is not a platform above me I feel like I'm not extending my punishment as far as I could. I get uptilt when he doesn't DI or DI's slightly, but I struggle to get meaningful follow ups on DI away at low percent. Also, if I do get the uptilt, what are good ways to continue a combo?
 
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