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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

KingNinja

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
22
Location
Thomasville, NC
So today I am quitting smash. My brother who is the only person I can play with is a complete jerk to me. Every day he makes fun of my skill and gameplay. I've been playing for about a year and a half. And I can no longer play with him because he has ruined the game for me by always putting me down. I just want to thank everybody on the fox thread that has answered my questions and been active and helpful. Thank you and goodbye
 

skylanc33r

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 30, 2015
Messages
2
Prepare yourselves for a bunch of questions lol...

-What is the importance of shield dropping w/ fox and what are my options with it?

-What is the best way to start adding mixups to my play? (I feel like i do the same combos most of the time)

-When is it good to up-smash out of shield?

-What can i follow-up with after i up-thow up-smash someone at low percent? (What is the best punish?)

-Is Cpt. Falcon the same weight as fox and falco? What are my options when I up-throw falcon at low to mid percents?

-What is the timing to powershield falcos lasers?

-What are the different ways to put pressure on someone in game? (Dash dance, lasers, etc)

-What are the most useful fox techs?

-How can i improve my neutral game and spacing with solo practice when playing fox?

-How do you guys warm up and mentally prepare for tournaments?

-When i shield falcos lasers, why is it good to wd OoS? If Falco is approaching with lasers and I shield them what should i do?

-Is shine turnaround bair on stage useful? What are some other good uses of shine turnaround?

Thanks :foxmelee::foxmelee::foxmelee:
 
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Comet7

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
1,027
Location
Somewhere over the rainbow
NNID
Comet7
Prepare yourselves for a bunch of questions lol...

-What is the importance of shield dropping w/ fox and what are my options with it?

it enhances your platform game and mobility. if people do something punishable on shield when you're on a platform, shield drop back air, forward air, and shine can hit them as you fall. you can also use shai drops (running shield drops) to do quick aerials near the ground if needed.

-What is the best way to start adding mixups to my play? (I feel like i do the same combos most of the time)

i'm not going to act like i'm a great player or anything, so don't take my word for gold. i'm also assuming that you mean mixups in your combos, since most people would likely think you're referring to mixups in neutral in any other context. i think recognizing your options and knowing how to piece them together is the key. keep other people's DI and ASDI, along with other things in mind when you do your combos, but when you figure out how to connect your moves, do whatever works.

-When is it good to up-smash out of shield?

when people do something really lag on your shield and you don't have better options. sometimes it could be better to waveshine until you can KO with up smash, sometimes you can get KO's if people are at a high enough %. you can also up smash OoS if you don't think people are being good enough with their shield pressure to prevent you from doing it.

-What can i follow-up with after i up-thow up-smash someone at low percent? (What is the best punish?)

it depends on the character, DI, and %. you can usually get an up air or back air easily. sometimes you may be able to get fair, nair, or shine to connect. you might even be able to get down tilt on fast fallers.

-Is Cpt. Falcon the same weight as fox and falco? What are my options when I up-throw falcon at low to mid percents?

fall speed and weight are different. captain falcon falls almost as fast as the spacies, but he's much heavier, so he'll die at higher %'s. i know up tilt can hit falcon. i think nair hits him as well. fox might have a chaingrab on falcon at some %'s, i'm not sure about this though. just so you know, falco is slightly heavier than fox.

-What is the timing to powershield falcos lasers?

when they're about to hit you. if you're moving toward the laser, you have a slightly longer window to powershield since you will still have momentum if you shield out of a run.

-What are the different ways to put pressure on someone in game? (Dash dance, lasers, etc)

using your dash dance to make people uncomfortable is good, as it makes your threat zones fluctuate. performing mixups and showing that you CAN do them will make people respect all of Fox's options. lasers are good as long as you do them when you aren't vulnerable.

-What are the most useful fox techs?

movement techs (shai dropping, wavedash, having control over dash dance lengths, shffl), jump canceled grab, waveshine, edge cancels, multishine, short hop double laser, doing anything out of shine, shine out of shield, pivoting, and being able to do the invincible ledgestall with firefox are all useful. since you seem to be new, just make sure your movement, jump cancel grabs, and waveshines into followups are decent. everything else is definitely useful, but not as necessary. HAVING GOOD DI (as well as shield DI and SDI) IS ALSO IMPORTANT.

-How can i improve my neutral game and spacing with solo practice when playing fox?

shadowboxing

-How do you guys warm up and mentally prepare for tournaments?

i practice my tech a bit before i go and do my best. i could go on about how somebody could do that, but it depends on the individual and playing the best you can is the most important part anyway.

-When i shield falcos lasers, why is it good to wd OoS? If Falco is approaching with lasers and I shield them what should i do?

i haven't used this much because i'm not that good. i've heard that it creates space between you and your opponent when you wavedash OoS in general, which prevents you from being stuck in your shield.

Thanks :foxmelee::foxmelee::foxmelee:
answers in bold
 
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tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,348
So I've been trying to use jab reset more recently, but i've noticed sometimes when I do jab with fox, the opponent just rolls up or does a get up attack. The timing for my input feels the same for when I get a jab reset, but why is it that sometimes they don't do a forced get up attack? Is it the percentage or what?
If the move you reset with inflicts 13+ frames of hitstun, the victim can perform any get up action. If it does 12 or less, he is forced to stand. Rolls can be input by just holding a direction, but contrary to what @Jim Morrison said, you can't just hold a button to do get up attack, you need to time it.
 

Kadano

Magical Express
Premium
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
2,160
Location
Vienna, Austria
And it can be as little a 1-frame window for the get-up attack A input. (If hitstun = 13 / 14 in Excel)
 
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tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,348
And it’s a 1-frame window for the get-up attack A input. (Was kind of implied from your post, but I think it’s possible to think that the timing window is > 1 frame.)
There's no way it's 1 frame window, it's super easy to do get-up attack after shine reset for example. It feels like a very large window to hit, maybe it's possible to input attack after 12 frames of DownDamage.
 
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Kadano

Magical Express
Premium
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
2,160
Location
Vienna, Austria
There's no way it's 1 frame window, it's super easy to do get-up attack after shine reset for example. It feels like a very large window to hit, maybe it's possible to input attack after 12 frames of DownDamage.
Hmm, admittedly I only tested with Marth’s jab at the first percent where it becomes an OTR on Fox. For that case, it was a 1fw. I’ll look into it some more.
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,348
I tested the situation a bit more, I think it's possible to cancel the hitstun into get-up action after DownDamage, but you'll be forced to stand only after hitstun. At least it's clear that you can get the get-up roll and get-up attack at different timings.
 

Spoice

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Messages
235
Location
England, Birmingham
NNID
snoopertrooper
Is there some sort of guide for pivots? I absolutely have no idea how to do it, and the whole concept is just foreign to me. I literally don't know a thing about it, and I was hoping somebody could either link me a guide to it, or just explain to me what pivoting is, how to do it, and how I can use it.
 

Soupeschleg

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
228
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
Is there some sort of guide for pivots? I absolutely have no idea how to do it, and the whole concept is just foreign to me. I literally don't know a thing about it, and I was hoping somebody could either link me a guide to it, or just explain to me what pivoting is, how to do it, and how I can use it.
when you're in dash (not run) and turn around to dash the other way, there's a frame where you're standing, so you can do any move you can normally do out of a standing position or jump or pretty much anything during that frame.
 

Spoice

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Messages
235
Location
England, Birmingham
NNID
snoopertrooper
when you're in dash (not run) and turn around to dash the other way, there's a frame where you're standing, so you can do any move you can normally do out of a standing position or jump or pretty much anything during that frame.
So I can grab, any smashes, jab, shine, and do tilt attacks?
 

Death Arcana

Rum is for Drinking
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
2,474
Location
nyuu? nyuu!!
3DS FC
3179-6169-5116
hey guys quick question
is a shine OoS actually canceling the jump squat animation like Usmash would
or is it waiting until the 1st frame after the jump squat? iirc 4th frame

ive heard different from many people, the latter would make it an airborn shine though?
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,348
You can't shine during jumpsquat, so shine oos is indeed aerial and frame 4 earliest. On flat ground you'll land frame 6 of frame perfect shine oos, so if you jump cancel it quickly, you'll double jump in the air.
 

Pάρί

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
87
Location
San Antonio, Texas
Is shine turnaround bair useful on stage?
I just watched the pew pew university on it, but i just want to clarify if it is or not.

Also, what pivots are useful for fox?
 
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Soupeschleg

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
228
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
Is shine turnaround bair useful on stage?
I just watched the pew pew university on it, but i just want to clarify if it is or not.

Also, what pivots are useful for fox?
I've had success in the past when my opponent is on a side platform and I'm center stage - running underneath them then shine turnaround fullhop bair to put them off stage
 

tauKhan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Messages
1,348
Is fox's waveshine/grounded shine knockback affected by normal DI? (Ignoring asdi and sdi)

I'm actually not sure
If the victim is on ground and he doesn't get knocked down by the shine, he can't Trajectory DI aka normal di, in any other situatiohn he can.
 

Comet7

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 2, 2013
Messages
1,027
Location
Somewhere over the rainbow
NNID
Comet7
Also, what pivots are useful for fox?
i've seen leffen do pivot jabs. pivot up tilt and pivot up smash seem like they could catch approaches if you see them coming. pivot up tilt could probably also be used to finish off the CG into other stuff at lower % than wavedash back up tilt. f smash can probably do the same thing except worse. i just thought of this; down smash might work to catch enemy foxes / falcos trying to sweetspot the ledge from above. the knockback angle would be way better than f tilt's but i don't know if it can work. pivot grab can be used in CGs, though it doesn't accomplish anything other than looking cool. it can also be used to catch some approaches if you're able to space yourself to land the grab and not get hit.
 

Quad-K

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
8
Location
Minnesota
Hey guys, I've been playing Melee for about a year and a half, and Fox for about a year. I'm still pretty bad and was wondering if anyone critique a video from a recent tournament: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5HiWQVXdjU

Falco is probably one of my worst match-ups (I get locked down in neutral a lot and feel like my DDing gets shut down) and I'm looking for stuff I can be doing better. We were both playing pretty nervous in the set and a lot of my bad habits came out (double jumping in neutral/platform drop bairs) and I shied away from more tech intensive options (double-shining/shine oos)
 

Pάρί

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
87
Location
San Antonio, Texas
Hey guys I had two questions i hope you guys can help me answer.
In tournament how do you guys keep your cool / stay focused during your matches?
I get so antsy/nervous at tournaments, and instead of focusing on the match my mind is just focused on not losing the games or telling myself not to lose.

Also what are some ways to train my fox in 20XX?
 

~Twitch~

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
4,106
Location
cullowhee, nc western carolina university
Hey guys I had two questions i hope you guys can help me answer.
In tournament how do you guys keep your cool / stay focused during your matches?
I get so antsy/nervous at tournaments, and instead of focusing on the match my mind is just focused on not losing the games or telling myself not to lose.

Also what are some ways to train my fox in 20XX?
Keeping cool under pressure is mostly something that is assured to come with time. Just keep competing and your emotions will get used to the environment.

But if that answer isn't enough you can take proactive steps to helping nerves by getting better sleep, eating better, meditating before a match or anything that you feel will successfully give your mind ease before a match.

What I like to do in 20XX is practice shine tech-chasing and follow ups on platform and just off of knockdown in general because that's something that I've struggled with for a long time. Uthrow chain grabs are good for practicing on 20XX because they'll give you many different di's off of throw and it's good practice IMO. You can also practice stuff like shield pressure and psing falco lasers if you set the commands correctly but it never really messed with that lol. 20XX is a great tool though and you should definitely use it.
 

Spoice

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 22, 2015
Messages
235
Location
England, Birmingham
NNID
snoopertrooper
Keeping cool under pressure is mostly something that is assured to come with time. Just keep competing and your emotions will get used to the environment.

But if that answer isn't enough you can take proactive steps to helping nerves by getting better sleep, eating better, meditating before a match or anything that you feel will successfully give your mind ease before a match.

What I like to do in 20XX is practice shine tech-chasing and follow ups on platform and just off of knockdown in general because that's something that I've struggled with for a long time. Uthrow chain grabs are good for practicing on 20XX because they'll give you many different di's off of throw and it's good practice IMO. You can also practice stuff like shield pressure and psing falco lasers if you set the commands correctly but it never really messed with that lol. 20XX is a great tool though and you should definitely use it.
Shine tech chasing? I don't think I've seen that in tournament. You think you could elaborate, or show a video of it in action?
 

Soupeschleg

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
228
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
jump cancelled upsmash? Personally, I use the control stick for it but there are a few options I suppose
I just quarter-circle up from left or right (depending on which way I dashed, obviously)
 
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