Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[sadistic]

I have 20xx hack pack, I just don't know how to go about doing a short hop

Or if there are some special settings in the 20xx that help with this?

This is unrelated to 20xx, but have you tried the slide technique? Basically you just slide your finger off x or y for a short hop, rather than pressing it down. Some people think it's inconsistent, but I've got it down pretty good.

 

[The Hoff]

This is unrelated to 20xx, but have you tried the slide technique? Basically you just slide your finger off x or y for a short hop, rather than pressing it down. Some people think it's inconsistent, but I've got it down pretty good.

I can do it but it makes follow up button pressing slower. Like doing a shuffle with this would be impossible Or extremely hard yes?

 

[Gunslinger]

Just move your hands faster. When I first picked up Fox I could never short hop consistently. The more time you put into all of Fox's tech, and the more you dedicate yourself to him, the easier all of his techniques will become. You only have a few frames to get your finger off the jump button, so don't be too frustrated. It's just one of those things you have to practice, there's not much of a cheat or hidden technique to it. It's just about getting your finger off the jump button before he jumps.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

What are some good stages for the Luigi MU?

 

[The Hoff]

Just move your hands faster. When I first picked up Fox I could never short hop consistently. The more time you put into all of Fox's tech, and the more you dedicate yourself to him, the easier all of his techniques will become.

Awesome, yeah I'll just keep with it. Thanks.

 

[Doser]

Could someone please link me to a post (or posts) that explains how to do the slight DI on marth's chaingrab, as well as how to best DI his up-tilts?

Thanks.

 

[Ryan1016]

What are the best options against a crouch canceling Samus? I seem to always get punished by a down smash when I try to put pressure on my friend. I try to waveshine him a lot but seem to mess up because the distances he travels on the ground changes so much.

 

[CeLL]

If you waveshine someone off the edge and slide off backwards from your wavedash momentum, can you bair them?

 

[Bones0]

If you waveshine someone off the edge and slide off backwards from your wavedash momentum, can you bair them?​

Yes, as long as they don't FF to the ledge or FF past it to avoid it.

 

[MarsFool!]

What are some good stages for the Luigi MU?

Avoid flat stages. I usually ban FD or stadium. Battlefield to be honest.

 

[ERayz]

What are the best options against a crouch canceling Samus? I seem to always get punished by a down smash when I try to put pressure on my friend. I try to waveshine him a lot but seem to mess up because the distances he travels on the ground changes so much.

There are two things I like to do against CC happy Samuses, or players in general.

1- Drill instead of Nair at low %
or
2- Aerial --> Shield, then punish their whatever move they do.

Don't abuse of #2, though

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Can falco chain grab fox with his downthrow?

 

[CeLL]

Can falco chain grab fox with his downthrow?

Until somewhere around 35% or something Fox can only escape with a frame perfect shine.

 

[Death Arcana]

is there a thread on everything there is to know how to cg a spacie with fox?
specifically the ditto

 

[CeLL]

is there a thread on everything there is to know how to cg a spacie with fox?
specifically the ditto

Just uthrow and then run the way they DI and JC grab.

 

[S.D]

Could someone please link me to a post (or posts) that explains how to do the slight DI on marth's chaingrab, as well as how to best DI his up-tilts?

Thanks.

No link but I'll just tell you.

The trick to the slight DI is to push the control stick UP and then slightly tilt it left or right. Pushing it directly up makes the input much less finicky then trying to slightly angle it horizontally.

The best DI you can get on the t utilt is directly behind marth and slightly down.
If you smash DI it correctly you can escape regrab (and pretty much any follow up bar techchase) at about 40% +

 

[Gunslinger]

I generally have extremely good tech skill when I'm on point, I'm able to hax$ multishine people's shields. I have generally pretty good observation skills and pick up on people's teching, getup, approach, and recovery habits after a few games. However, I'm extremely inconsistent. Especially for long tournaments, I find it hard to mentally keep up my game of outguessing my opponent while simultaneously keeping master control over Fox. For instance, the last tourny I went to I won against everyone except 1st seed in my pool, then got 2-0'd in bracket (note the pools and bracket were on different days). I reckon the endurance for both tech and mind games comes with experience (I've been playing for 9 months), but is there any advice any of you guys have to be more consistent technically and mentally?

 

[Bones0]

Until somewhere around 35% or something Fox can only escape with a frame perfect shine.

Fox can ASDI down to land cancel then shine out at any percent.
Source

 

[CeLL]

Fox can ASDI down to land cancel then shine out at any percent.
Source

Yes but isn't it a one frame window, assuming Falco's regrab is frame perfect?

 

[Bones0]

Yes but isn't it a one frame window, assuming Falco's regrab is frame perfect?

Yeah, but it's not like doing the grab frame perfect is easier than the shine. It's essentially a frame war where Falco gets a regrab if he wins (meh), and Fox gets a knockdown (gg).

 

[Spluvin]

Just uthrow and then run the way they DI and JC grab.

Between what percentages is the chaingrab inescapable?

 

[CeLL]

Between what percentages is the chaingrab inescapable?

http://www.ssbwiki.com/Fox_(SSBM)/Up_throw#Chaingrab_on_fastfallers
Written by Kadano.

 

[g_f]

I generally have extremely good tech skill when I'm on point, I'm able to hax$ multishine people's shields. I have generally pretty good observation skills and pick up on people's teching, getup, approach, and recovery habits after a few games. However, I'm extremely inconsistent. Especially for long tournaments, I find it hard to mentally keep up my game of outguessing my opponent while simultaneously keeping master control over Fox. For instance, the last tourny I went to I won against everyone except 1st seed in my pool, then got 2-0'd in bracket (note the pools and bracket were on different days). I reckon the endurance for both tech and mind games comes with experience (I've been playing for 9 months), but is there any advice any of you guys have to be more consistent technically and mentally?

people told me the moment techskills flub is the moment you stop doing fancy stuff and just grab

 

[Gunslinger]

people told me the moment techskills flub is the moment you stop doing fancy stuff and just grab

Good advice, but one of my most missed techs is the JC grab lol

 

[g_f]

i feel you man! anyway in that case i think getting down jc grab perfectly should be your top priority during training. try some dash -> shield stop -> a (basically shieldgrab out of a dash), i guess it is just as fast as jc grab if executed perfectly (possibly faster?), just do not press l+a at the exact same time or you'll get a running grab. remember you can also aerial straight into a grab (nair grab is a thing at low %s, drill grab almost always, also grab if you hit a shield), jab grab (maybe jab -> shield -> a if you can't really jc the jab), tomahawk grab, cross up with an aerial or even empty full jump (vs peach, puff, ics, samus, just mix up with full jump cross up bairs if they grow bold, works like a charm) -> turn around grab; walk up grab (!!!) really isn't a thing in neutral but you'll see colbol do it many times against a falco that's been popped in the air already by some random stuff (utilt, dtilt, dash attack) and isn't going really far. just use your focus for figuring out a creative way on how to get the grab, and it'll be easy piece from there since it's just a matter of upairing / utilting / usmashing. when pressured turn your back to the opponent and put up a wall with things you'll hardly flub: utilts, spaced bairs, wd back ftilt, more utilts. also possibly look at your surroundings: evading to the top plat is always an option under pressure, just do not stand still once up there. once the pressure is off of you, techskills will be back as well!

 

[Gunslinger]

i feel you man! anyway in that case i think getting down jc grab perfectly should be your top priority during training. try some dash -> shield stop -> a (basically shieldgrab out of a dash), i guess it is just as fast as jc grab if executed perfectly (possibly faster?), just do not press l+a at the exact same time or you'll get a running grab. remember you can also aerial straight into a grab (nair grab is a thing at low %s, drill grab almost always, also grab if you hit a shield), jab grab (maybe jab -> shield -> a if you can't really jc the jab), tomahawk grab, cross up with an aerial or even empty full jump (vs peach, puff, ics, samus, just mix up with full jump cross up bairs if they grow bold, works like a charm) -> turn around grab; walk up grab (!!!) really isn't a thing in neutral but you'll see colbol do it many times against a falco that's been popped in the air already by some random stuff (utilt, dtilt, dash attack) and isn't going really far. just use your focus for figuring out a creative way on how to get the grab, and it'll be easy piece from there since it's just a matter of upairing / utilting / usmashing. when pressured turn your back to the opponent and put up a wall with things you'll hardly flub: utilts, spaced bairs, wd back ftilt, more utilts. also possibly look at your surroundings: evading to the top plat is always an option under pressure, just do not stand still once up there. once the pressure is off of you, techskills will be back as well!

Some good knowledge here. I'm not sure if drill grab is a true combo, but I love doing it lol. Literally so many of my combos/reads are dropped because I miss the JC grab (strangely enough shinegrabbing is 10x easier for me than just a raw JC grab), so I'll definitely try your dashing shield grab. Your other grab combo/mind game suggestions are really smart too, nothing is better than a tomahawk grab. What you say about the top platform is true, minus the fact you give up stage positioning, but I love going to platforms. When I waveland on them real crispy I get all my momentum back even if I just got jankily gimped. Honestly my main problem is when I fight higher leveled opponents further in bracket I just start playing like an idiot (double jumping for no reason, not mixing up movement, always running in with telegraphed nairs, etc). I know what to do in situations, but against people I have trouble consistently beating I just freeze up. The mental aspect of Smash has always been hard for me, and when I get into my own head my tech just disintegrates (I start full-jumping, missing l-cancels on shield, standing laser, basically every noobie Fox mistake). Two top level players always wear their emotions on their sleeve (Hbox and M2K), I don't know how they stay so consistent (probably because they don't main Fox lol). I need to find a way to really quickly get myself back into the game and adapt faster. I'll definitely apply your advice to my neutral game though!

 

[FoxeR]

Any tips on Fox's shuffle nair timing ?

I am still struggling to do this correctly and shine afterwards especially when I hit my target. A large percentage of the time dair comes out. Other times I do it correctly and then the shine wont come out for some reason. What are the ways to avoid this ? What order do you guys press your buttons.

 

[Gunslinger]

Any tips on Fox's shuffle nair timing ?

I am still struggling to do this correctly and shine afterwards especially when I hit my target. A large percentage of the time dair comes out. Other times I do it correctly and then the shine wont come out for some reason. What are the ways to avoid this ? What order do you guys press your buttons.

If dair is coming out it sounds like you're fast falling before you hit A. If shine isn't coming out you're either not hitting it fast enough or not l-canceling. The order is short hop -> nair -> fast fall -> l-cancel -> shine. Shffling your aerials and shining consistently is something that just comes with practice honestly

 

[FoxeR]

If dair is coming out it sounds like you're fast falling before you hit A. If shine isn't coming out you're either not hitting it fast enough or not l-canceling. The order is short hop -> nair -> fast fall -> l-cancel -> shine. Shffling your aerials and shining consistently is something that just comes with practice honestly

I got different advice on r/melee and now I dont know which is correct. Heres what the guy on r/melee said.

There really isn't much to tell you besides keep working on it, and if you approach with nair you want the attack to come out as late as possible so jump, fastfall, nair, l cancel, shine. The best way to get a true feel for the timing on input is to get to practice mode and slow time to half-speed! It's so good!

So which one is correct? Fast fall before or after I hit A or are both correct but just
situational ?
?

 

[tauKhan]

@ FoxeR Sh ff nair is the fastest way to get low nair into immediate land. It's much more difficult to perform than simply delayed nair ff though. @Hax would probably tell you to learn sh ff nair, but I don't know whether it's worth it to put much practice time into it. However I think full jump ff low nair is definitely useful tech to learn.

Not even possible to sh ff nair lol.

 

[Gunslinger]

I got different advice on r/melee and now I dont know which is correct. Heres what the guy on r/melee said.

There really isn't much to tell you besides keep working on it, and if you approach with nair you want the attack to come out as late as possible so jump, fastfall, nair, l cancel, shine. The best way to get a true feel for the timing on input is to get to practice mode and slow time to half-speed! It's so good!

So which one is correct? Fast fall before or after I hit A or are both correct but just
situational ?
?

My b, you should FF before you nair to get a really fast, low attack. The timing between the ff and the nair is extremely quick though. They're like, almost simultaneous.

 

[Diana's Safe Landing]

Marth down throws fox at the ledge and now Fox is off stage, what are all of Fox's recovery options?

1) Sweet spot the ledge with double jump is an option but I feel like if Marth times a forward smash correctly its impossible(?) to sweetspot. Is double jumping to grab ledge a good option to mix up here?

2) Double jump backward then either illusion onstage, illusion to the ledge, or shorten illusion sweetspot. I feel like Marth can react to illusion on stage and illusion to ledge pretty easily. Depending on where marth is standing he can also cover shorten sweetspot with the same move that would cover the on stage illusion?

3) Double jump backward and start firefox then either go high, go straight at them, or go to the ledge. Can Marth react with a fair in this situation, as in run offstage and swat the start up frames? I feel like I get away with these three options the most but I only play like three marths so I'm wondering if they could react to this option as well.

4) Instant double bair/nair/uair/dair. I think this can work well depending on your percent and how you DId if they expect you to sweetspot with your jump and you instead attack it could catch them off guard.

Fox's recovery is insanely broken so I'm probably missing a lot of options but which ones are the safest to go for and the hardest for marth to cover? Mixing up is always ideal but I guess I want to mix up optimally. Also whats the best way to DI the downthrow?

 

[tauKhan]

@ Diana's Safe Landing You should never die to fsmash when near the ledge, it's 8 frames window to sdi ledgetech tipper, and sour spot you can asdi tech to very high percents.

 

[Diana's Safe Landing]

@ Diana's Safe Landing You should never die to fsmash when near the ledge, it's 8 frames window to sdi ledgetech tipper, and sour spot you can asdi tech to very high percents.

I usually don't get tippered.. but you think eating the fsmash close to the stage for a ledge tech is a good option?

 

[tauKhan]

Yeah, just x/y walltech jump into immediate sideb, and you only eat 10/20 %. Also there' the possibility that you don't get hit. But always be ready to tech when sweet spotting.

 

[Spluvin]

Falcon would work, but honestly I think it's just better to stick to your guns, literally. As much as a "hard counter" FD is for Marth and Peach v Fox, it's not unwinnable. If you laser camp them and play real safe/gay, they're gonna get real desperate for that grab, and it's super telgraphed. Falco is another idea, Mango always goes Falco against M2K on FD. Besides, you really only need to worry about this in 3/5 sets, and it's only 1 game for them. You still have PS for both, YS for Peach, and DL for Marth. People who main Fox shouldn't even worry about secondaries tbh. Just because Charizard loses to Blastoise doesn't mean Charizard can't win and that you should've just picked Bulbasaur from the beginning, he can evolve into Mega Charizard Y and solerbeam that *****. You just gotta mega evolve.

I agree that sticking to fox and might be the best in practice (this is what I still do). The thing is though that I want a secondary and thought I may as well pick one that aids me in my worst matchups. I do at the moment think that the best answer to peach and marth on FD is to have a pocket marth.

 

[Berble]

when marth does the dthrow near the ledge then does dtilt to cover tech away, in place and no tech then reacts to tech in with grab whats (if there is one) the best option? is it escapable with certain di?

 

[tauKhan]

I got different advice on r/melee and now I dont know which is correct. Heres what the guy on r/melee said.

There really isn't much to tell you besides keep working on it, and if you approach with nair you want the attack to come out as late as possible so jump, fastfall, nair, l cancel, shine. The best way to get a true feel for the timing on input is to get to practice mode and slow time to half-speed! It's so good!

So which one is correct? Fast fall before or after I hit A or are both correct but just
situational ?
?

@ Gunslinger
Oops, I was ******** for not doing more research when I first responded to the question. It's not even possible to sh ff -> nair. Taken from the fox frame data thread:

SH Earliest FF: 12
SH FF air time: 15

So if you ff as high as possible (frame 12), you can then do nair frame 13 the earliest, but you've already landed on frame 16* when the hitbox would come out. So you're supposed to nair and then immediately ff. This way you leave only 1 aerial frame after hitting even if you nair just before you can ff.

*It's possible that doing the nair delays your landing by 1 frame, but I don't think that's the case. I tried to sh ff nair in 1/4 slow motion, but still could never get that hit, so at least it's not viable.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

Does the Platform Waveland from the ledge on Yoshi's have invincibility frames on the whole thing? ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_yFsZquT8o 3:22)

 

[CeLL]

Does the Platform Waveland from the ledge on Yoshi's have invincibility frames on the whole thing? ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_yFsZquT8o 3:22)

I am interested in this and also the one on BF.