thanortinzak
Smash Apprentice
Look, I have already given an indepth analysis of how ALL of MK's moves can be countered here.
What more do you want?!? Seriously. Stop using "MK is Broken" as an excuse for mediocrity.
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Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
- Status
What more do you want?!? Seriously. Stop using "MK is Broken" as an excuse for mediocrity.
AtotheZ
Smash Lord
Too funny 
Exia 00
Smash Champion
SFA3 max ? Fun game, it just kills my hands lol
Frank West
Smash Apprentice
a pile that'd probably contain the majority of your posts on this subject no doubt.
Especially if you're going to try to sit here and tell me MK doesn't give the cast a harder time than Snake by a large margin.
Yes. It's been out for sometime now.
but yeah this is about MK and Brawl. I just don't understand why this poll was not posted in one of the tourney rooms or atleast in the brawl tactical discussion. I guess Marc has his reasons :embarrass
Snake gives a lot of low/mid tiers a harder time IMO. So do D3 and Falco for obvious reasons. MK is just "broken" because he has an incredibly deep tool set that allows him to answer everything and ultimately have no bad matchup, he's not everyone's worst matchup or anything.
SoupaSonic
Smash Journeyman
I don't think he should be banned since he is beatable, it might be really hard but it's possible. I've beaten a MK with my Sonic (he wasn't too good, more decent than good). It's not like his mach tornado is unbreakable, and he's a light weight too. People just need to learn how to fight against him right and stop complaining when they lose, I don't start Johning when I lose to a MK. I think that if you think he's too good then you should pick him up, or maybe even Diddy (I think I heard that he's at a slight advantage or it's not a bad match up or something) So yeah, don't ban him since Kinzer is right too, all other high tiers will dominate otherwise so we'll kinda be in an endless banning whirlpool.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
No, he actually doesn't.
Snake maybe doesn't have as many advantages as Meta Knight has, but he gives more characters a hard matchup than Meta Knight.
Meta Knight does not "****" more than 5 characters in Top, High or Mid Tier, and even those 5 characters are actually debatable.
Except, of course, you want to say Captain Falcon or Samus would become viable without Meta Knight. lawls.
Shade_
Smash Ace
I vote for the ban. I don't believe that banning him will… balance the game, but it will be "more" balanced without him. It would also clear the stage for the many characters that have a one sided match stacked against them when facing MK. Snake, DDD, and the other high teir characters do have an advantage on the rest of the cast. But not nearly as much as MK has on them.
Yes he is beatable, there are many characters that can beat him. And the character imbalance between you're character and Meta Knight can be made up with technique and skill. But the amount of difference needed to make up this gap between bad match ups, and bad match ups against MK are very apparent. As a link Player, I rather fight against Snake than a MK? Samus, Mario, Luigi, Pit players, who would they rather fight, Snake or MK? Maybe this is just me, but as a low, mid teir player, I'd much rather fight the latter of the high teirs, than face MK with most of my characters.
The skill difference is also more apparent in Team Battles for tournaments. If a Good Marth, and a Good wolf are on a team in a tournament. And their opponents are DDD and Snake, they will probably feel this match will be very difficult, but it is definitely up for grabs for either side, and the play field will be about even. What if the opponents are Wario and Rob? They can still probably muster a victory assuming all players are competent. Now let’s change 1 character in both of the opposing teams. Lets say DDD and MK. Now the Wolf and Marth team will probably rethink their character choices. What about Wario and MK? Again, they will have to think about if they should change characters or not. Rob and MK? Snake and MK? What about Marth and MK? Meta Knight by himself changes the balance of a team to an extent that no other character can. One example of a neutral team that suffer from this situation would be, Luigi and Wario vs DDD and Snake, in the DDD team, change either one of those characters to MK, and the difference in how hard the match will be is obvious. I think the majority of the players that do not use MK would be better off if he was not there. The characters seen at tournaments would be slightly more versatile. Even if all the MKs switched to Snake, or DDD, other characters that do better against those characters than they did MK would be seen at tournaments more.
Yes he is beatable, there are many characters that can beat him. And the character imbalance between you're character and Meta Knight can be made up with technique and skill. But the amount of difference needed to make up this gap between bad match ups, and bad match ups against MK are very apparent. As a link Player, I rather fight against Snake than a MK? Samus, Mario, Luigi, Pit players, who would they rather fight, Snake or MK? Maybe this is just me, but as a low, mid teir player, I'd much rather fight the latter of the high teirs, than face MK with most of my characters.
The skill difference is also more apparent in Team Battles for tournaments. If a Good Marth, and a Good wolf are on a team in a tournament. And their opponents are DDD and Snake, they will probably feel this match will be very difficult, but it is definitely up for grabs for either side, and the play field will be about even. What if the opponents are Wario and Rob? They can still probably muster a victory assuming all players are competent. Now let’s change 1 character in both of the opposing teams. Lets say DDD and MK. Now the Wolf and Marth team will probably rethink their character choices. What about Wario and MK? Again, they will have to think about if they should change characters or not. Rob and MK? Snake and MK? What about Marth and MK? Meta Knight by himself changes the balance of a team to an extent that no other character can. One example of a neutral team that suffer from this situation would be, Luigi and Wario vs DDD and Snake, in the DDD team, change either one of those characters to MK, and the difference in how hard the match will be is obvious. I think the majority of the players that do not use MK would be better off if he was not there. The characters seen at tournaments would be slightly more versatile. Even if all the MKs switched to Snake, or DDD, other characters that do better against those characters than they did MK would be seen at tournaments more.
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
2ndSteel should get an infraction from flaming and spamming.
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
Hey! Falcon MK isn't so bad, actually.
SoupaSonic
Smash Journeyman
Spade fox is right, I have more of a hard time facing hard snake than a good Meta Knight, and that's with all of my many mains.
Imainlowtier
Smash Cadet
I voted pro-ban. I tried to read the anti ban's argument in the OP... but it wasn't compelling enough
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
Well it was an example. Exchange Falcon with Ganondorf, if you want.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
fixed for thruthiness
also, wow, at the astro nomically fast growth of this thread
me too. i d rather face mk.
The same can said for Snake and in the end even some Mid to Low tiers go even or close to even with him. The same can't be said for MK.
gantrain05
Smash Master
i can see where kinzer is coming from, and i personally do not have many troubles with MK as a peach main, i do however think that making over half the cast pretty much unviable and the other half not even having an even matchup with him is more than enough for a ban in my eyes. yeah you have to really outplay MK to win, but honestly imo, you have to be a much better player than the MK in order to win. as soon as the metas learn all the character matchups its not going to be a very fun game, i can say for certain that over half the MK's i've beaten is because of matchup inexperience, i play MK all the time, they don't play alot of peach.
also, i would like to say that people DO need to stop *****ing about MK and learn to fight him because he most likely won't be banned anyway.
i also think the anti ban side doesn't have much of an argument either. both sides are just spewing insults at each other. the game is still too new to know whats going to happen.
also, i would like to say that people DO need to stop *****ing about MK and learn to fight him because he most likely won't be banned anyway.
i also think the anti ban side doesn't have much of an argument either. both sides are just spewing insults at each other. the game is still too new to know whats going to happen.
last post aids
Clai
Smash Lord
Ganondorf doesn't have it awfully bad, either (relatively speaking; we have far worse matchups to worry about than Metaknight). For all purposes, though, I get what you're trying to say.
gantrain05
Smash Master
ganon vs falco = lol
ganon vs diddy = lol
ganon vs DDD = lol
ganon vs olimar = lol
MK isn't as bad as those matchups even tho MK is probably 70-30/75/25 lol
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
Uhm, yes, it can? There are some Mid and Low Tier characters that are only slightly disadvantaged or even with him.
Snake has many more "****" matchups than Meta Knight has. Or at least a similar amount.
Meta Knight is not giving "the whole cast" or "the majority of the cast" problems, because Low Tier isn't really viable to begin with - with or without Meta Knight - and most High and Mid Tier characters have far worse matchups than Meta Knight.
True, if he gets banned they have one disadvantaged matchup gone, therefore they are more viable.
But saying that Meta Knight makes the whole cast unviable is an outright lie, and while it's true he makes some characters less viable, but all of these characters have mathchups just as bad as Meta Knight (if not even worse).
But making them unviable? That's false.
da K.I.D.
Smash Hero
why is there som many posts in this thread, I thought the Op was supposed to have all of the arguments in it, so why is there still 50 (proly more) different WoTs in this thread
DUCKAtl
Smash Apprentice
thank u
no johnsI just want to see him banned because everyone I play against has switched to him. All of their truly interesting mains were getting wrecked by other MKs, so they picked him up as a secondary and have recently switched. It's getting boring as **** to play anymore, when all you have to fight is the same **** character over and over again. I haven't been to a brawlfest in weeks because I know exactly what it's going to be like ;.;
Brawl was more fun before everyone started meatriding MK, and that's truly the only reason I don't like him. I want to play against the other 35 characters in the cast
not really, maybe if you practiced more than you do spending time on forums like a fanboy you would be better
sigh
Llumys
Smash Champion
Why are there so many posts in this thread by people who joined in July 09?
Laijin
Smash Hero
Because not everyone can be old school like me ;o
AtotheZ
Smash Lord
I don't think everyone read the OP
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
Snake has more **** match ups 60:40 are better, most characters on the roster are 60:40 vs MK maybe 70:30 is the worst vs Ganon. I would of expected you to know this.
DUCKAtl
Smash Apprentice
hah, i joined june. but if your going by date joined, it doesnt matter cause like a freakin Asian maniac video game addict that knows more bout brawl than any other person could join today
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
It was to read both sides, discuss, and debate will ensue. They just wanted to to strongly consider their arguments before someone* blatantly votes.I don't think everyone read the OP
Flamingo
Smash Lord
ROFL M2K plays more freaking Melee than brawl IN BRAWL tournies. At HERB2 Last weekend during POOLS where it counts he was playing melee (not to practice it.. the melee tourny already happened the day before) until everyone else was done with their matches and then sat down and played 8-10 straight. M2K pretty much only plays the day before and the days of tournies. Banning MK isn't going to make him go god mode at Melee.
AtotheZ
Smash Lord
I didn't "blatantly vote"
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Didn't say you did. It was a description... I should be more specific as that was you in a general sense.
I'm not saying that MK makes the whole cast unviable, I'm just pointing out that he does indeed have more "****" matchups than Snake does or at least a similar amount. He tops this off by not really having much if any even matchups though, unlike Snake who has plenty as well as some disadvantages even if they might be slight. Also, tbh not much mid to low tier characters go near even with MK. Even is like 55:45ish in my book and face it, most characters in those tiers are either 60:40 or worse against him.
AtotheZ
Smash Lord
Its all good, but I was just saying a lot of people didn't read the OP, I mean, a lot of people were in the thread asking if they could change their vote
Eazy23
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,383
Simple question for all.
Are the better players winning? In any fighter, the better player should be winning matches. In your personal experiences, are the mks that are beating you...better than you?
I have lost to some metas who are simply better than me, and some who clearly are not. I'm genuinely curious as to how the rest of the community feels on this issue.
Are the better players winning? In any fighter, the better player should be winning matches. In your personal experiences, are the mks that are beating you...better than you?
I have lost to some metas who are simply better than me, and some who clearly are not. I'm genuinely curious as to how the rest of the community feels on this issue.
Johnny Citrus
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2009
- Messages
- 109
Mk is a problem because he can't be counterpicked. A lot of diddys for example might say luigi is their worst match up not mk but at least they can secondary Dedede for this match up.
Snake can be counterpicked metaknight can't be.
Snake can be counterpicked metaknight can't be.
Clai
Smash Lord
Replace Diddy with the Ice Climbers (and Sheik, but she's not seen too often) and you've got it right. I used to be awful against MK to the point where I used a different character to fight it. Recently, I have been starting to use Ganon against MK and realized he truly isn't that terrible (I do a heck of a better job with Ganon now than the character I used to fight MK the whole time, lol).
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