For Glory mode was not made for the competitive community

[Acadian Flycatcher]

Smash has always been played in two ways. For fun, and as a grudge match.
Everyone and their dogs knows this.

For Glory mode exists as an alternative way to Smash aside from the free for all fests.
"Casuals" have 1 v 1 matches with no items all the time. Everyone who has played Smash Bros. has played 1 v 1.
We thrive off the 4 for all item chaos, but that's not all we do.

Final Destination has always been the go to stage to settle a quarrel.
64 had many options, but there was never a stage that had the same effect as Final Destination did when it was finally playable in Melee.
It is the most fair and basic stage. It's a straight line.
And now we have the option of enjoying the Final Destination stage in other Nintendo universes.

I can't believe people are upset about Sakurai offering this mode.
I actually read a comment where someone was offended that Sakurai thinks competitives only play Final Destination.

Sakurai didn't think "oh this will shut the competitive Melee players up."
He realized that basic 1 v 1 matches are a huge part of Smash Bros., and he gave us that option.
An option that was pretty damn popular even before competitive Melee started gaining traction.

There's no way Nintendo "forced" Sakurai to "cater" to the competitive players. That's just ludicrous.

Chimera, you're completely missing the point.

For Glory is a more serious mode where "**** gets real," there's no distractions, losses are recorded, and everythings done in a neutral stage.

That doesn't mean the game mode was made specifically for the tournament-going, competitive players that practice every day and looks for new strategies to improve their play, it's just that, a more "serious" game mode, which even casual players like to play. (I would know, as I'm basically a casual player, and I even prefer one-on-one itemless fights in most situations.)

Every single multiplayer mode in Smash mode involves some form of competition, that doesn't mean it was made for the competitive community. Competition between friends is fun too, and extremely common.

 

[Chimera]

The name is "For Glory". It's the closest thing you can get to without just naming it "For Competion." You're objectively wrong.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

The name is "For Glory". It's the closest thing you can get to naming it "For Competion." You're objectively wrong.

Every Smash Bros. game is a "competition".

Every match is a "competition".

Road hockey is a competition.
But playing road hockey isn't the same as "competing" when playing in the NHL.

Same goes for Smash Bros.
You are "competing" against your friends.
But you aren't transporting your controllers in a safe and doing it competitively.

 

[Senario]

Plus the most balanced stage is not FD at all. It is battlefield. Even nintendo knows this.

 

[TheGoldMan]

If the competitive scene didn't exist, I highly doubt For Glory would exist either.

 

[Chimera]

Every Smash Bros. game is a "competition".

Every match is a "competition".

Road hockey is a competition.
But playing road hockey isn't the same as "competing" when playing in the NHL.

Same goes for Smash Bros.

You play for fun, you compete for glory. You're arguing against the English language right now.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I don't think anyone is upset at its existence at all, people would just like for there to be a Battlefield option as that's considered the most balanced stage, even by Nintendo themselves as we see at the Invitational and Comic-Con. Even if it's only there for grudge matches as you say, Battlefield will still prove the best for that exactly because it is the most balanced. Grudge matches are competitive, so you're kind of contradicting yourself here actually.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

You play for fun, you compete for glory. You're arguing against the English language right now.

Yeah everyone plays Smash Bros. that way.

For Glory wasn't made because Sakurai specifically wanted to give something to the competitive Melee scene players.

 

[Farorae]

The For Glory mode was definitely made with competitive players in mind. Also there was absolutely no way that Sakurai could make a mode that would please every single competitive player.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

I don't think anyone is upset at its existence at all, people would just like for there to be a Battlefield option as that's considered the most balanced stage, even by Nintendo themselves as we see at the Invitational and Comic-Con. Even if it's only there for grudge matches as you say, Battlefield will still prove the best for that exactly because it is the most balanced. Grudge matches are competitive, so you're kind of contradicting yourself here actually.

I think I need to be more clear.

For Glory is a competitive mode for playing Smash Online. (Me playing my friends 1 v 1 is competitive. But that doesn't mean we are competitive Smash players. We don't go to tournaments, or have different controllers for all the characters.)

But it wasn't made specifically for the competitive Melee tournament players.

They didn't sit down and say "oh we have a mode for the casuals and a mode for the pros."
They decided "okay we have a fun mode and a personal mode."

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I think I need to be more clear.

For Glory is a competitive mode for playing Smash Online.

But it wasn't made specifically for the competitive Melee tournament players.

I will give you that, it was made for the upcoming competitive Smash 4 community. You're missing the keyword "Melee" in your OP. It's a way for people that like to play Smash 4 competitively to prove themselves online, that's why it records losses too, only the best man will get a high Global Smash Power in this mode.

 

[Chimera]

Yeah everyone plays Smash Bros. that way.

For Glory wasn't made because Sakurai specifically wanted to give something to the competitive Melee scene players.

Stop generalizing the competitive scene as "Melee players." It's nonsensical. The mode was made for competitive play. Competitive players play competitively. Therefore, your theory is objectively wrong.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

Stop generalizing the competitive scene as "Melee players." It's nonsnsical. The mode was made for competitive play. Competitive players play competitively. Therefore, your theory is objectively wrong.

Me and my friends are playing 1 v 1 on Final Destination.
We are playing competitively.
But we aren't competitive players because of that.
We don't go to tournaments to fight top players from around the country.
We fight each other in our basement, for competition.

M2K is a competitive Smash Bros. player who goes to tournaments to compete for money.
I am a Smash Bros. player who competes against my friends, for glory.

And I'm using Melee generalization because that is the most dominate community on this forum and the one with the biggest competitive scene right now.

 

[Chimera]

Me and my friends are playing 1 v 1 on Final Destination.
We are playing competitively.
But we aren't competitive players because of that.
We don't go to tournaments to fight top players from around the country.
We fight each other in our basement, for competition.

What's your point? If you play for glory, than you are playing competitively. If competitive play is your thing, for glory was made for you.

M2K is a competitive Smash Bros. player who goes to tournaments to compete for money and glory
I am a Smash Bros. player who competes against my friends, for glory.

Fixed. In bold.

And I'm using Melee generalization because that is the most dominate community on this forum and the one with the biggest competitive scene right now.

Generalizations are dumb. Don't do it. You're better than that.

The fact of the matter is that the mode was designed for competitive play. There is no fathomable way to then say the mode was not designed for competitive players. That's exactly who is was made for by virtue of its function.

 

[RascalTheCharizard]

We already know this. Many people have pointed out that For Glory was inspired by Brawl's online play.

Final Destination has always been the go to stage to settle a quarrel.

Citation needed. Pretty sure me and my mates pick Big Blue and Temple when we get salty.

 

[Ehn Jolly]

Yeah, pretty sure the basic language of For Glory is working against you here. Unless you want to split hairs saying "it doesn't fit MY definition of competitive", you need to accept that it's the 'competitive' side of the online spectrum.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

What's your point? If you play for glory, than you are playing competitively. If competitive play is your thing, for glory was made for you.

Fixed. In bold.

Generalizations are dumb. Don't do it. You're better than that.

The fact of the matter is that the mode was designed for competitive play. There is no fathomable way to then say the mode was not designed for competitive players. That's exactly who is was made for by virtue of its function.

Alright.
I don't know how else to explain this but here it goes.

For Glory was made for competition, and yeah I guess two people playing for competition are competitive players.
But there's a different between me and my friend competing in my basement, then from all these people that gather at official tournaments to compete for money.

If they made For Glory SPECIFICALLY for the tournament, competitive, M2K, etc. scene, then they would have structured it differently.
They would have made Battlefield options for stages as well, they would have offered counter picks, best 2 out of 3, allowed for other "legal" stages.

But they didn't.
Why?
Because it wasn't made specifically for M2K, EVO, esports, etc. players.

It was made for the everyday Smash Bros. fan who loves to have 1 v 1 matches to compete against people for bragging rights.

 

[Khao]

Chimera, you're completely missing the point.

For Glory is a more serious mode where "**** gets real," there's no distractions, losses are recorded, and everythings done in a neutral stage.

That doesn't mean the game mode was made specifically for the tournament-going, competitive players that practice every day and looks for new strategies to improve their play, it's just that, a more "serious" game mode, which even casual players like to play. (I would know, as I'm basically a casual player, and I even prefer one-on-one itemless fights in most situations.)

Every single multiplayer mode in Smash mode involves some form of competition, that doesn't mean it was made for the competitive community. Competition between friends is fun too, and extremely common.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

Chimera, you're completely missing the point.

For Glory is a more serious mode where "**** gets real," there's no distractions, losses are recorded, and everythings done in a neutral stage.

That doesn't mean the game mode was made specifically for the tournament-going, competitive players that practice every day and looks for new strategies to improve their play, it's just that, a more "serious" game mode, which even casual players like to play. (I would know, as I'm basically a casual player, and I even prefer one-on-one itemless fights in most situations.)

Every single multiplayer mode in Smash mode involves some form of competition, that doesn't mean it was made for the competitive community. Competition between friends is fun too, and extremely common.

THANK YOU!

 

[Nielicus]

One thing people seem to forget

Being competitive =/= Always going to tournaments

At my house, we play 1v1s when we want a clean match and to possible get revenge but we play to win nonetheless

EDIT: Tbh IDEK if what I said made sense lol, I just woke up and I'm a derp

 

[Chimera]

Chimera, you're completely missing the point.

With respect, I think y'all are both missing the way English works

For Glory is a more serious mode where "**** gets real," there's no distractions, losses are recorded, and everythings done in a neutral stage.

So, a competition?

That doesn't mean the game mode was made specifically for the tournament-going, competitive players that practice every day and looks for new strategies to improve their play, it's just that, a more "serious" game mode, which even casual players like to play. (I would know, as I'm basically a casual player, and I even prefer one-on-one itemless fights in most situations.)

You don't have to be tournament-going player to be a competitive player. They are not one in the same.

Every single multiplayer mode in Smash mode involves some form of competition, that doesn't mean it was made for the competitive community. Competition between friends is fun too, and extremely common.

Correct. Competition occurs outside of tournaments. This mode was made for it.

Alright.

For Glory was made for competition, and yeah I guess two people playing for competition are competitive players

Done. That's my point.

But there's a different between me and my friend competing in my basement, then from all these people that gather at official tournaments to compete for money.

The only difference is that you're in your basement, and they are not.

If they made For Glory SPECIFICALLY for the tournament, competitive, M2K, etc. scene, then they would have structured it differently.

Competitive players and frequent tournament goers are not the same thing.

They would have made Battlefield options for stages as well, they would have offered counter picks, best 2 out of 3, allowed for other "legal" stages.

There's no way to please all competitive players. Have you seen how divided this forum is? You're just speculating based on opinions you've heard from the community.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

With respect, I think y'all are both missing the way English works

So, a competition?

You don't have to be tournament-going player to be a competitive player. They are not one in the same.

Correct. Competition occurs outside of tournaments. This mode was made for it.

Done. That's my point.

The only difference is that you're in your basement, and they are not.

Competitive players and frequent tournament goers are not the same thing.

There's no way to please all competitive players. Have you seen how divided this forum is? You're just speculating based on opinions you've heard from the community.

I'm done.
Take from this thread what you will.
There are mountains easier to budge than you

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

This discussion again? For Glory is obviously not intended as an appeal to tournament players. It's meant for the "hardcore" players who only play FD without items because they take the game super seriously and think that's how tournament players play the game. Basically, most people who think they're pro at the game before discovering the actual competitive scene. We all know or knew that one guy who forces everyone to play on FD because it's "the only 100% fair stage".

Final Destination was probably chosen because that was the most played stage over Brawl's online modes. Simple as that. Sakurai noticed how much people played on it, and assumed that most players see it as the go-to stage for competition. FD's prominence in the Japanese metagame may have influenced the decision as well, but the mode is very clearly not meant to appeal to tournament players so much as hyper-competitive "casual" players.

 

[WishOn]

Hey, I'll only be happy when Poke Floats is the For Glory stage. Sakurai can't please us all.

 

[MajorMajora]

Flycatcher, I'm glad someone agrees with me. While from a sheer "technical" point of view, you could argue for both battlefield and final destination, but I always saw final destination as the "definitive smash stage" that was just a straight up 1v1. That's what it's for. it's for glory. Yes, that is technically "competitive', but it sure as hell doesn't directly imply MLG.

And about everyone saying Battlefield is more balanced, while I'm no expert, even i understand both Battlefield and FD are "counter picks" to certain characters. Either choice would have problems, so he chose the one that was the most iconic, or so I guess. It also could've been due to rigorous testing that decided that FD was more balanced between the whole roster than Battlefield is, and we haven't played enough of the game to know this, though this is in the realm of conjecture.

 

[Khao]

With respect, I think y'all are both missing the way English works

So, a competition?

You don't have to be tournament-going player to be a competitive player. They are not one in the same.

Correct. Competition occurs outside of tournaments. This mode was made for it.

Done. That's my point.

The only difference is that you're in your basement, and they are not.

Competitive players and frequent tournament goers are not the same thing.

There's no way to please all competitive players. Have you seen how divided this forum is? You're just speculating based on opinions you've heard from the community.

The point is not that it's not a competition, but that it wasn't made as a means to make the competitive community happy, it's not that hard.

Even For Fun is a competitive mode.

You're not even wrong, you're just arguing against something that nobody's even saying.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I will give you that, it was made for the upcoming competitive Smash 4 community. You're missing the keyword "Melee" in your OP. It's a way for people that like to play Smash 4 competitively to prove themselves online, that's why it records losses too, only the best man will get a high Global Smash Power in this mode.

I hate to bring reality to yet another poster who is unaware of this, but Global Smash Power is completely unaffected by your performance in For Glory. GSP is singularly affected only by your single player mode records/performances, so technically GSP is indicative of nothing, from a 1v1 competitive standpoint.

The closest to "rankings" we're going to get is comparing W/L ratios. We'll probably have a thread listing people based on W/L % (weighted by number of matches and/or requiring a limited # of matches minimum to qualify ex. 100 or whatever). We will probably have to require some form of proof as people can lie about it too.

I just gave myself a thread idea...called it!

 

[Pyra]

Sure it was.

If I made a doll and gave it to some kid that hated dolls, they might not like it and it might not suit what they'd prefer, but I still made it for them.

I'm sorry for not taking this seriously.

 

[NoiseHERO]

That semantics battle tho.

Where is the real competition! On the Keyboard or the Controller! D:

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Platforms can in turn favor others a lot stronger than FD can.

The reason FD becomes a "not balanced" stage are grab shinanigans.

 

[Hayzie]

All this **** over some modes that actually pleases kinds of people.

I'm out.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Platforms can in turn favor others a lot stronger than FD can.

The reason FD becomes a "not balanced" stage are grab shinanigans.

Which we've already covered in a wealth of topics has been modified (along with projectiles) so I can't possibly understand how that's still an argument.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Personally, I prefer battlefield to every other stage. For me it truphs FD in both practicality and looks. Not to mention I'm tired of operas themed battles. I'm thankful for Glory gives us the option to listen to other pieces.

If there was a battlefield option it would honestly be perfect even without stock.

 

[Chiroz]

The name is "For Glory". It's the closest thing you can get to without just naming it "For Competion." You're objectively wrong.

Actually the mode has an inner matchmaking ranking, meaning higher position (even if you can't tell) than others, which is exactly what "glory" means.

If the competitive scene didn't exist, I highly doubt For Glory would exist either.

Ok, I'll go ahead and say this on the 4th thread now.

FD was picked 9 out of 10 times in online Brawl. Analyze this data, let this sink in.

In CASUAL online Brawl, there was a stage which was picked 9 TIMES more than every single other stage COMBINED.

As a designer who wants to make decisions based on what players like and do, I can assure you with 100% certainty that "For Glory" would have probably existed no matter if there was a competitive scene or not.

You need to remember casuals believe FD is the most balanced stage (whether it be true or not), which means over 95% of the community believes so (EVEN IF IT AIN'T TRUE).



Just ask yourself this. If you have an online mode for a game, and that mode is dominated 9-1 by 1 stage, whereas every other stage is fighting for less than 10% of the game, wouldn't it make sense to just separate the stage from every other stage so that people who want to play on another stage don't have to wait 10 games just to get to play what they want?

 

[Morian]

For Glory mode were designed with the competitive japanese community in mind.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

I never thought I'd see people complain about how random online matches are set up. Guys, if you don't like For Glory just swap friendcodes wuith people here and set your own rules.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

I never thought I'd see people complain about how random online matches are set up. Guys, if you don't like For Glory just swap friendcodes wuith people here and set your own rules.

You give the internet too much credit.
Even when you give it what it wants, it still complains.

 

[Chimera]

The point is not that it's not a competition, but that it wasn't made as a means to make the competitive community happy, it's not that hard.

It's a mode designed specifically for competitive players. That is exactly what it means to "make the competitive community happy.

 

[Dracometeor]

I hate to bring reality to yet another poster who is unaware of this, but Global Smash Power is completely unaffected by your performance in For Glory. GSP is singularly affected only by your single player mode records/performances, so technically GSP is indicative of nothing, from a 1v1 competitive standpoint.

The closest to "rankings" we're going to get is comparing W/L ratios. We'll probably have a thread listing people based on W/L % (weighted by number of matches and/or requiring a limited # of matches minimum to qualify ex. 100 or whatever). We will probably have to require some form of proof as people can lie about it too.

I just gave myself a thread idea...called it!

I just have to comment on your thread and W/L idea. It doesn't work.

Considering that For Glory uses a hidden ranking system for matching players , using W/L is not a good method of judging how good someone is. Since you will be playing against higher ranked players it will be much harder to win. Compared to the guy playing against 5 year olds. It just doesn't work out, MAYBE if the system also matches based on W/L ratio but otherwise it's a shot in the dark.

For example look at League of Legends. I'm Silver 1 and my win ratio is at 60%. However if you look at alot of diamond ranked players they won't all have 60%+ W/L ratios. Because they have a harder time against better players then I do against my Silver buddies. W/L doesn't mean everything when you consider rankings and hidden matchmaking.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

You give the internet too much credit.
Even when you give it what it wants, it still complains.

I'm an optimist.

I think the idea is cool. If you want a more competitive style of random match because you hate items or something, it's a perfectly good mode. No one will ever use it for serious competition. Guys, it's just for randoms.

Also, as an aside here, lately I've begun thinking that Sakurai is wrong. The most played stage isn't FD; It's Smashville.