For Glory mode was not made for the competitive community

[Renji64]

I don't think anything this game is intended for the competitive players. I think nintendo has been doing things for that crowd not sakurai.

 

[pizzapie7]

It's a mode designed specifically for competitive players. That is exactly what it means to "make the competitive community happy.

It's designed for people who want to play "competitively."
It's not designed for the competitive community.
This isn't rocket science.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

It's a mode designed specifically for competitive players. That is exactly what it means to "make the competitive community happy.

you have to be doing this on purpose by now... there is no way you can be legitimate.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

I don't think anything this game is intended for the competitive players. I think nintendo has been doing things for that crowd not sakurai.

Because there's only ever one way to compete, am I right?

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I just have to comment on your thread and W/L idea. It doesn't work.

Considering that For Glory uses a hidden ranking system for matching players , using W/L is not a good method of judging how good someone is. Since you will be playing against higher ranked players it will be much harder to win. Compared to the guy playing against 5 year olds. It just doesn't work out, MAYBE if the system also matches based on W/L ratio but otherwise it's a shot in the dark.

For example look at League of Legends. I'm Silver 1 and my win ratio is at 60%. However if you look at alot of diamond ranked players they won't all have 60%+ W/L ratios. Because they have a harder time against better players then I do against my Silver buddies. W/L doesn't mean everything when you consider rankings and hidden matchmaking.

This is a very good point, it helps to know the ranking system. I'll have to think about it a little more but I think there's a means for which it is still valid.

Despite that missing key information I still think a list will happen, it may not definitive due to some missing bits of information but it's better than nothing, you know?

 

[Chimera]

It's designed for people who want to play "competitively."
It's not designed for the competitive community.
This isn't rocket science.

People that want to play Smash Bros. competitively ARE the competitive community. This isn't rocket science.

 

[StarLight42]

I feel this thread was made specifically to piss off competitive players.

 

[Senario]

I feel this thread was made specifically to piss off competitive players.

Yeah....it has some serious undertones. I ain't even mad tho. For me fighting games in general are meh in netplay, sometimes they have bad netcode and sometimes you can tell that little bit of lag messed you up a bit thanks to your internet connection.

There are a few standouts with crazy good Netplay like Blazblue but...that is a sprite/2D anime style based game and have a lot less going on than a 3D character model game (Sprite/2D anime styled games are awesome btw, not sure why people are veering away from it since it is perfectly ok and good looking. Old Street fighter, old marvel, Guilty gear, so on and so on.)

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

I feel this thread was made specifically to piss off competitive players.

To be honest it was because of a comment in a thread I read a couple of days ago.

"It's offensive that Sakurai thinks competitive players only fight on Final Destination."

The smugness and audacity of that comment stuck with me.
That person honestly thought For Glory was catered specifically to the tournament/EVO crowd.

I was shocked people had this mindset, and have read countless comments complaining about the whole For Glory in general.
So I made a thread about how it is made for more "serious" gameplay, which has been present in every Smash game, even in casual play.

 

[Gameboi834]

People that want to play Smash Bros. competitively ARE the competitive community. This isn't rocket science.

Wow. You don't need help being needlessly hypocrtical and stubborn.

Not all people who play Smash competitively are a part of the specific Smash competitive community that we all clearly know the boundaries of. A community in this discussion's context is "a feeling of fellowship with others, as a result of sharing common attributes, interests, and goals". I can play Smash as a competition with my friends and play to win, but I'm not feeling any fellowship with Mang0 when I do it and I certainly don't play with my friends in the hopes of being the best or beating several dozen or even hundreds of people. Those are two separate competitive communities. For Glory was not made specifically for people who frequent the pro scene.

 

[pizzapie7]

To be honest it was because of a comment in a thread I read a couple of days ago.

"It's offensive that Sakurai thinks competitive players only fight on Final Destination."

The smugness and audacity of that comment stuck with me.
That person honestly thought For Glory was catered specifically to the tournament/EVO crowd.

What's wrong with that statement? Prior to recently even on this very website, people on both sides of this argument have said back and forth that For Glory was made with competitive play in mind. If you thought that (which a poster who didn't know better had no reason not to) wouldn't you be offended at the fact that he didn't even care enough to research how the competitive scene works? It's a huge misunderstanding, nothing more.

 

[StarLight42]

Yeah....it has some serious undertones. I ain't even mad tho. For me fighting games in general are meh in netplay, sometimes they have bad netcode and sometimes you can tell that little bit of lag messed you up a bit thanks to your internet connection.

There are a few standouts with crazy good Netplay like Blazblue but...that is a sprite/2D anime style based game and have a lot less going on than a 3D character model game (Sprite/2D anime styled games are awesome btw, not sure why people are veering away from it since it is perfectly ok and good looking. Old Street fighter, old marvel, Guilty gear, so on and so on.)

I'll go out of the way to say that i'm NOT a competitive smasher, but I do hope the best for the competitive community.

However, if I was, the thread wouldn't hurt me at all, I'd think most competitive players would not want to play For Fun or Glory, mostly because online lag will still be a bit present, and also because ...you won't know who you are playing!

I think Smash online (besides VS Friends) is more of a casual thing to begin with that people play for ****s n' giggles, but it's nice to see Sakurai went the extra mile.

 

[「 Derk 」]

Pretty much sums up this entire thread so far...

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Yeah....it has some serious undertones. I ain't even mad tho. For me fighting games in general are meh in netplay, sometimes they have bad netcode and sometimes you can tell that little bit of lag messed you up a bit thanks to your internet connection.

There are a few standouts with crazy good Netplay like Blazblue but...that is a sprite/2D anime style based game and have a lot less going on than a 3D character model game (Sprite/2D anime styled games are awesome btw, not sure why people are veering away from it since it is perfectly ok and good looking. Old Street fighter, old marvel, Guilty gear, so on and so on.)

Recently did some tests with a friend using Mario Kart 8.

I like in Tokyo, Japan & he lives in New York, USA.

Keep in mind that neither of us were using a hardwire for the Wii U, we were both wirelessly connected to our routers.

We went in to Battle Mode and basically experimented with a variety of things while on Skype. We would get up next to each other and perform actions while stating on Skype the exact moment in which we performed them, such as hopping or throwing an item.

"1, 2, 3, HOP"

"1, 2, 3, THROW"

Something to that effect.

To our surprise, there was basically a humanly unnoticeable amount of lag in terms of when he or I would execute an action, and the other player would actually see it get executed on their screen.

We came away from that session feeling pretty damn confident in what our Smash 4 experience is going to be like, despite the fact we live on opposite sides of the world.

I imagine if connection with the Wii U is that smooth between Tokyo and New York, that there is very little to worry about in terms of the net play quality. I imagine folks' internet connection quality makes a difference too, but if you have an awful and horrible internet connection then I wouldn't be complaining to Nintendo about your online experience being laggy or horrible. Me and my friend in this circumstance had quite acceptable connections.

However, this is all anecdotal and different people have a different affinity for the amount of frames of lag that are present. Sometimes a person may not notice anything while another will feel like it's unplayable, but I tend to be one of those "sensitive" type players and I came away quite impressed with the results of our experiments.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

What's wrong with that statement? Prior to recently even on this very website, people on both sides of this argument have said back and forth that For Glory was made with competitive play in mind. If you thought that (which a poster who didn't know better had no reason not to) wouldn't you be offended at the fact that he didn't even care enough to research how the competitive scene works? It's a huge misunderstanding, nothing more.

Well it was on the whole topic of "if they made Final Destination versions for stages, why not make Battlefield versions as well?"

And I understand in the "competitive community (tournaments/evo)" Battlefield is regarded as the superior "neutral" stage.
Which is exactly why this isn't catered directly to the "competitive community (tournaments/evo)" crowd.

It would defeat the purpose to make Battlefield versions as well.
Final Destination has always been that go to stage to settle an argument.
There's more of a thrill when you challenge them to 1 v 1 on Final Destination with no items.
It's a flat platform. There's no where to run, no where to hide. Just you and your opponent.
I understand it doesn't offer the most balanced gameplay in terms of competitiveness (which doesn't have anything to do with my initial argument) but Final Destination itself has a much bigger reputation for a grudge match.

Battlefield is that classic, balanced stage, but Final Destination is so bare that it's literally you and another person, nothing else.
That's what they were trying to capture with For Glory mode.
It's that one destination most go to to settle a score.
Then they decided to add variants so people still get that same experience, but they don't miss out on the other universes Nintendo has to offer.

 

[StarLight42]

Pretty much sums up this entire thread so far...

I'm not trying to argue, i'm just letting the OP know that if he was trying to offend competitive smashers I don't think it worked. I'm neutral towards the whole thing.

 

[LancerStaff]

Plus the most balanced stage is not FD at all. It is battlefield. Even nintendo knows this.

So far, anyway. FD probably would of been used in the tournaments if it was, yaknow, there. FD will likely be SSB4's Smashville since the game is being balanced around it.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

I'm not trying to argue, i'm just letting the OP know that if he was trying to offend competitive smashers I don't think it worked. I'm neutral towards the whole thing.

If it was my intention to offend the competitive community there would be no ambiguity.
I'm no stranger to insults and I'm sure plenty in this thread could attest to that.

I was just simply raising the concern that this mode isn't specifically catered to that community.

 

[StarLight42]

If it was my intention to offend the competitive community there would be no ambiguity.
I'm no stranger to insults and I'm sure plenty in this thread could attest to that.

I was just simply raising the concern that this mode isn't specifically catered to that community.

Then why else would it even be considered?

(Ignoring the fact that competitive smashers likely don't play online, from at least that I have heard)

Casual smashers shouldn't care if items are on because they don't know who they are playing in the first place.

To be honest it was because of a comment in a thread I read a couple of days ago.

"It's offensive that Sakurai thinks competitive players only fight on Final Destination."

The smugness and audacity of that comment stuck with me.
That person honestly thought For Glory was catered specifically to the tournament/EVO crowd.

I was shocked people had this mindset, and have read countless comments complaining about the whole For Glory in general.
So I made a thread about how it is made for more "serious" gameplay, which has been present in every Smash game, even in casual play.

This post kind of made it apparent you were just trying to offend competitive smashers because of that statement.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Plus the most balanced stage is not FD at all. It is battlefield. Even nintendo knows this.

Just to clear one thing everyone has forgotten, here's what's going on.

Favorite Amercian Competitive Tourney Stage: Battlefield
Favorite Japanese Competitive Tourney Stage: Final Destination

I'm sure many of you are ignorant of this, but the Japanese competitive scene favors Final Destination to Battlefield and that's the scene that's basically right next door for Sakurai to look at.

So guess what stage he chose~?

That's all there is to it. Nothing more, nothing less.

And that's all I'm going to say in here, because this is ridiculous. (Not you, Senario. I just chose your post to reply to.)

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

Then why else would it even be considered?

(Ignoring the fact that competitive smashers likely don't play online, from at least that I have heard)

Casual smashers shouldn't care if items are on because they don't know who they are playing in the first place.

Because people are getting upset over the fact that Sakurai has not replicated the genuine tournament/competitive style Smash.
When he wasn't going for that in the first place.

 

[Senario]

Recently did some tests with a friend using Mario Kart 8.

I like in Tokyo, Japan & he lives in New York, USA.

Keep in mind that neither of us were using a hardwire for the Wii U, we were both wirelessly connected to our routers.

We went in to Battle Mode and basically experimented with a variety of things while on Skype. We would get up next to each other and perform actions while stating on Skype the exact moment in which we performed them, such as hopping or throwing an item.

"1, 2, 3, HOP"

"1, 2, 3, THROW"

Something to that effect.

To our surprise, there was basically a humanly unnoticeable amount of lag in terms of when he or I would execute an action, and the other player would actually see it get executed on their screen.

We came away from that session feeling pretty damn confident in what our Smash 4 experience is going to be like, despite the fact we live on opposite sides of the world.

I imagine if connection with the Wii U is that smooth between Tokyo and New York, that there is very little to worry about in terms of the net play quality.

However, this is all anecdotal and different people have a different affinity for the amount of frames of lag that are present. Sometimes a person may not notice anything while another will feel like it's unplayable, but I tend to be one of those "sensitive" type players and I came away quite impressed with the results of our experiments.

Well to me it is a matter of preference for fighting games, I simply don't play them online unless my buddy is close enough plus the netcode is really good. Some games are entirely all about the frames and even a few frames off can spell doom or missing something. Smash Melee is like that if it had netplay considering how it works out with just the lag on Newer TVs compared to CRT ones. (I'm sure it is noticable on Brawl too thanks to the input type of the wii) Fighting games are guilty of this minimal lag being a problem more than any other types games.

Usually Mario Kart isn't as intensive on being all that accurate unless you were in time trials. That said wouldn't skype have the same amount of lag as the Mario Kart game itself? Not that Mario Kart is known for bad netcode, it actually has some of the best netcode I know of. Really doesn't matter, when/if I get the game I won't play online anyway.

 

[pizzapie7]

Just to clear one thing everyone has forgotten, here's what's going on.

Favorite Amercian Competitive Tourney Stage: Battlefield
Favorite Japanese Competitive Tourney Stage: Final Destination

I'm sure many of you are ignorant of this, but the Japanese competitive scene favors Final Destination to Battlefield and that's the scene that's basically right next door for Sakurai to look at.

So guess what stage he chose~?

That's all there is to it. Nothing more, nothing less.

And that's all I'm going to say in here, because this is ridiculous. (Not you, Senario. I just chose your post to reply to.)

He chose the stage because of how often FD was picked in the online free for all mode. Which was incredibly often. There's no proof saying that it has anything to do with the Japanese scene. I don't know why people keep bringing this up.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Well to me it is a matter of preference for fighting games, I simply don't play them online unless my buddy is close enough plus the netcode is really good. Some games are entirely all about the frames and even a few frames off can spell doom or missing something. Smash Melee is like that if it had netplay considering how it works out with just the lag on Newer TVs compared to CRT ones. (I'm sure it is noticable on Brawl too thanks to the input type of the wii) Fighting games are guilty of this minimal lag being a problem more than any other types games.

Usually Mario Kart isn't as intensive on being all that accurate unless you were in time trials. That said wouldn't skype have the same amount of lag as the Mario Kart game itself? Not that Mario Kart is known for bad netcode, it actually has some of the best netcode I know of. Really doesn't matter, when/if I get the game I won't play online anyway.

Don't know about you but I am sick to death of playing myself at Smash, and no matter what the setting is, time or stock, metal mode, I want the option to fight other human brains without waiting for tournaments or organizing community events.

To be able to just hit a button and get a human opponent without items no matter what the stage or the ruleset is...it is a blessing in more ways than one, and I can't imagine why you'd purchase the game and ignore that opportunity.

 

[Silent Hell]

Or he could have just narrowed it down to FD&BF. But anyway this thread has mostly been an argument in semantics. Either way, I'm sure both parties know what the opposition means when they say competitive scene or whatnot so trivializing the argument with Equivocation is objectively wrong. :O

 

[Chimera]

Wow. You don't need help being needlessly hypocrtical and stubborn.

Uh, how am I hypocritical?

Not all people who play Smash competitively are a part of the specific Smash competitive community that we all clearly know the boundaries of. A community in this discussion's context is "a feeling of fellowship with others, as a result of sharing common attributes, interests, and goals". I can play Smash as a competition with my friends and play to win, but I'm not feeling any fellowship with Mang0 when I do it and I certainly don't play with my friends in the hopes of being the best or beating several dozen or even hundreds of people. Those are two separate competitive communities. For Glory was not made specifically for people who frequent the pro scene.

If the statement was: "For glory wasn't made for tournament goers" I'd say "Duh, thanks for making this obvious statement and waste of a topic." However that wasn't the statement. It was

For Glory mode was not made for the competitive community

That statement is simply wrong.

You don't have to love or feel some sort of connection to every smash player to be competitive, I'm not sure what you're even talking about with that one. It also doesn't matter if there are FIFTY competitive communities, "For Glory" was made for them. There's no way around this, stop trying, and stop taking offense that you may be a competitive player. It's ok. There's nothing wrong with it.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

Or he could have just narrowed it down to FD&BF. But anyway this thread has mostly been an argument in semantics. Either way, I'm sure both parties know what the opposition means when they say competitive scene or whatnot so trivializing the argument with Equivocation is objectively wrong. :O

But the point wasn't to create a mode where you fought on Battlefield variants in order to offer the most balanced play.
It was to face off on a no holds bar grudge match on the most popular stage to do it on.
Final Destination has a much bigger reputation as being that "**** just got real stage".
Battlefield has that "neutral" reputation.

 

[pickle962]

EDIT: Shame on the competitive community! Be ****ING GLAD we even HAVE the option to play itemless 1v1's on legal stages! Oh and with friends has ALL the options you could want for your matches

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

Uh, how am I hypocritical?

If the statement was: "For glory wasn't made for tournament goers" I'd say "Duh, thanks for making this obvious statement and waste of a topic." However that wasn't the statement. It was


That statement is simply wrong.

You don't have to love or feel some sort of connection to every smash player to be competitive, I'm not sure what you're even talking about with that one. It also doesn't matter if there are FIFTY competitive communities, "For Glory" was made for them. There's no way around this, stop trying, and stop taking offense that you may be a competitive player. It's ok. There's nothing wrong with it.

You are ignoring everything myself and many others have said by focusing on the denotation of the word "competitive."
Even you understand the connotation of the phrase "competitive community."
Yet here you are still arguing on how the title of the thread is phrased... after all these comments...ignoring all the content...

When someone says "can I go to the washroom" you are the first person to say "I don't know, can you?"
That's what you're doing right now and it's gone too far.

Now you'll probably nitpick about how I used the words "denotation" and "connotation".

 

[StarLight42]

This thread is so slly, have you asked Sakurai if it was made for the competitive community or just the same casuals?

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

Shut up and be glad we even HAVE an option to play 1v1's with NO ITEMS and NO RANDOM BS on stages occurring! Oh and there's even MORE options for customizing matches if you play with your pals! Sorry if this comes off as rude, but if you are going to whine about something, I'd suggest something more practical/legit like starving disease carrying youngsters in Africa

I'm not whining about the mode itself, I'm just whining about how the competitive community is whining about it because they assumed it was made specifically for them.

 

[Senario]

Don't know about you but I am sick to death of playing myself at Smash, and no matter what the setting is, time or stock, metal mode, I want the option to fight other human brains without waiting for tournaments or organizing community events.

To be able to just hit a button and get a human opponent without items no matter what the stage or the ruleset is...it is a blessing in more ways than one, and I can't imagine why you'd purchase the game and ignore that opportunity.

Do you always have to make sure you are "right"? I'm just saying I don't particularly care for it as it pertains to fighting games so it doesn't matter to me. =/

Great! Bravo, Champagne! High fives! Slow clap. you have won this "argument".

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

This thread is so slly, have you asked Sakurai if it was made for the competitive community or just the same casuals?

if you think "just some casuals" never once in their life played 1v1 no items then you are woefully misinformed.
actually that's how most casuals play.
we just don't to the extra research you all do and practice everyday to find new techniques to improve.

 

[LancerStaff]

Or he could have just narrowed it down to FD&BF. But anyway this thread has mostly been an argument in semantics. Either way, I'm sure both parties know what the opposition means when they say competitive scene or whatnot so trivializing the argument with Equivocation is objectively wrong. :O

Having both FD and BF opens the floodgates to people begging for Smashville and YI and the like. Simply narrowing it down to the absolute minimum ensures that A: At least one type of player, the ultra-conservative, is happy. B: They don't have to deal with stage legality. C: Every character will play the same way every time because there's only the one stage. And D: People won't win because the RNG picked the stage that favors their character.

 

[Deleted member]

I never thought I'd see people complain about how random online matches are set up. Guys, if you don't like For Glory just swap friendcodes wuith people here and set your own rules.

Welp, you said it. This x9000.

 

[Chimera]

You are ignoring everything myself and many others have said by focusing on the denotation of the word "competitive."
Even you understand the connotation of the phrase "competitive community."
Yet here you are still arguing on how the title of the thread is phrased... after all these comments...ignoring all the content...

When someone says "can I go to the washroom" you are the first person to say "I don't know, can you?"
That's what you're doing right now and it's gone too far.

Now you'll probably nitpick about how I used the words "denotation" and "connotation".

Are you explaining how I am hypocritical? Because if so, I'm pretty sure that's the word I'll be "nitpicking" about next.

I'm not ignoring anything, your thread is just a petty, and overall bad thread. Don't be mad at me because of your failure.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

Are you explaining how I am hypocritical? Because if so, I'm pretty sure that's the word I'll be "nitpicking" about next.

I'm not ignoring anything, your thread is just a petty, and overall bad thread. Don't be mad at me because of your failure.

I don't understand how you can stay committed to this rouse after all these hours.

 

[Chimera]

I don't understand how you can stay committed to this rouse after all these hours.

Do you mean ruse?

 

[LancerStaff]

if you think "just some casuals" never once in their life played 1v1 no items then you are woefully misinformed.
actually that's how most casuals play.
we just don't to the extra research you all do and practice everyday to find new techniques to improve.

I never turned items off until about five years ago. None of my friends were particularly interested in fighting mono-a-mono either. Even with just two players we'd always turn on CPUs.

 

[Acadian Flycatcher]

Do you mean ruse?