Floaty Purposes [MEWTWO GENERAL]

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Rikana you have your wish. I'm done with Ivysaur.

 

[Rikana]

Ivysaur is a plague.

 

[ph00tbag]

Glad that confusion is a reflector rather than a deflector, now.

 

[MetaKnight0]

ill be honest i don't really care how strong or how weak Mewtwo is in the released official version. that being said if mewtwo still possesses similar hitbox/weight/floatiness issues that he did in Melee, he's not gonna be a top tier character on release. which is a good thing because right now he looks like an absolute offense monster

 

[NH Cody]

Hi I never really played project M before except once 3 years ago when it was in its early stages. I really will try to get into the game just for Mewtwo though.

 

[Nguz95]

Hi I never really played project M before except once 3 years ago when it was in its early stages. I really will try to get into the game just for Mewtwo though.

Welcome brother. You're in for one hell of a ride.

 

[NH Cody]

Thank you Nguz. I'm just wondering though, what criteria do the developers use to decide whether to make a character worse off in the next game update? For example, if I practice mewtwo 24 hours a day every day, then go to a tourney and by some miracle never drop a game to anybody, will they be able to distinguish between "oh mewtwo is broken he pasted everybody at the tournament" and "mewtwo only won because that guy outplayed his opponents"

 

[CORY]

they look at if character traits "break the rules" of smash.

for example, 2.1(?) lucario could essentially always get a force palm on you if he hit your shield. that means you can't ever shield against lucario. that breaks a big rule of smash.

2.5(or whatever build it was) sonic could be non commital on EVERYTHING. he could start an approach, wait to see your reaction, then decide if he liked it or not. if he didn't, he could stop his approach and change or restart the neutral game. it broke a rule of smash.

if m2 doesn't break any rules like that, they'll leave him alone (maybe the nerftweaks, but he won't be hammered like the aforementioned characters).

 

[Shadow Huan]

ill be honest i don't really care how strong or how weak Mewtwo is in the released official version. that being said if mewtwo still possesses similar hitbox/weight/floatiness issues that he did in Melee, he's not gonna be a top tier character on release. which is a good thing because right now he looks like an absolute offense monster

those were the biggest problems with Mewtwo in Melee. the floatiness is fine, and the hurtboxes have already been tweaked a bit from what I understand. but it he is still the same weight I feel like I should call foul. he is heavier than Charizard in the pokemon games isn't he?

it disappoints me that some of these look to be TAS, but the model is amazing and movement is smooth. and the Teleport tricksies are boss.

I said it in the other thread, but I will refrain from complaints or further compliments until I get to play him. so far so good I guess? lol

 

[hamyojo]

they look at if character traits "break the rules" of smash.

for example, 2.1(?) lucario could essentially always get a force palm on you if he hit your shield. that means you can't ever shield against lucario. that breaks a big rule of smash.

2.5(or whatever build it was) sonic could be non commital on EVERYTHING. he could start an approach, wait to see your reaction, then decide if he liked it or not. if he didn't, he could stop his approach and change or restart the neutral game. it broke a rule of smash.

if m2 doesn't break any rules like that, they'll leave him alone (maybe the nerftweaks, but he won't be hammered like the aforementioned characters).

When Sonic broke the rules of Smash it broke PM for awhile.

My new dream is for Mewtwo to be the new Sonic <3

 

[lukifer]

those were the biggest problems with Mewtwo in Melee. the floatiness is fine, and the hurtboxes have already been tweaked a bit from what I understand. but it he is still the same weight I feel like I should call foul. he is heavier than Charizard in the pokemon games isn't he?

In the intro paragraph on the Mewtwo character page they mention a "weight adjustment", so presumably he'll be heavier now.

 

[Shadow Huan]

so it does lol.

this should be interesting in the lab

 

[NH Cody]

I understand. I just hope that even if he is really good, even the best, that they keep him that way. he deserves to be top tier after suffering in low tier for so long

do we have any idea when the mewtwo update will come out?

 

[Nguz95]

edit: way too late lol
Mewtwo can't be bad with that teleport man. His combo options look like Lucas on steroids right now. He is going to shake up the game big time, mark my words.

 

[foxygrandpa]

I like mewtwo but in no way does he deserve to be better than the rest of the cast. This game is about balance. If I know my character better than the opponent, I shouldn't lose to someone just because their mewtwo or sonic. In my opinion, mewtwo will probably still be able to be knocked out easy, like metaknight was.

But I don't know about you guys, but I'm a huge pichu fan. I hope that pichu is added, and that he obliterates the cast completely, He really deserves it after being such low tier in melee.

 

[Nguz95]

I like mewtwo but in no way does he deserve to be better than the rest of the cast. This game is about balance. If I know my character better than the opponent, I shouldn't lose to someone just because their mewtwo or sonic. In my opinion, mewtwo will probably still be able to be knocked out easy, like metaknight was.

But I don't know about you guys, but I'm a huge pichu fan. I hope that pichu is added, and that he obliterates the cast completely, He really deserves it after being such low tier in melee.

...What? I think Mewtwo will definitely be a lighter character. After seeing the tools he was given, I can't really think otherwise. However, the site does say his weight has been adjusted, so I think he will be right in between Ganon and Melee Mewtwo in terms of weight. That offsets his large hurtbox enough that he doesn't get owned by weak moves at low % anymore.

 

[NH Cody]

but pichu is a weak pokemon. mewtwo is the SUPER POWERFUL BEING and it would make more sense for him to be strong in project m.

 

[Kally Wally]

but pichu is a weak pokemon. mewtwo is the SUPER POWERFUL BEING and it would make more sense for him to be strong in project m.

This ain't Pokemon.

 

[Nguz95]

This ain't Pokemon.

We don't need 8 pokemon in a smash game imo. 7 is pushing it anyways. Also, the new costume engine just begs for a Pichu over Pikachu.

 

[CardiganBoy]

Sexy FAir all the way!!

 

[Nguz95]

The new shadow claw animation looks amazing. I can't get over how cool the blue trails are.

 

[CardiganBoy]

The new shadow claw animation looks amazing. I can't get over how cool the blue trails are.

Yeah, always loved that move.

 

[Kally Wally]

We don't need 8 pokemon in a smash game imo. 7 is pushing it anyways. Also, the new costume engine just begs for a Pichu over Pikachu.

I was more referring to the "Mewtwo is powerful in Pokemon, therefore he should be powerful in Project M" sentiment. But I agree, if M2 wasn't a Melee vet, I'd roll my eyes pretty hard at his inclusion.

Not so sure about the Pichu costume thing, since Pichu is smaller and would need smaller hurtboxes, which in turn would make him mechanically different. I guess he could be a scaled-up Pichu, but that just seems wrong.

 

[NH Cody]

well idk about you guys but I am super excited for this. even if he's only a mediocre character, we can innovate with him and come up with strategies to throw opponents off guard.

 

[Yurya]

Well the fastest way to develop Mewtwo's metagame would be to release him as brokenly good so everyone has a strong incentive to want to learn him.
Especially seeing how he doesn't seem intuitive with Hover and all.
Anyway awesome announcement and I like how MewTwo was announced as the second clone.

 

[SmashShadow]

What I wanna know is the changes to his jab! That stuff was jank as hell in Melee. Is it still a mash?

 

[NH Cody]

Well the fastest way to develop Mewtwo's metagame would be to release him as brokenly good so everyone has a strong incentive to want to learn him.
Especially seeing how he doesn't seem intuitive with Hover and all.
Anyway awesome announcement and I like how MewTwo was announced as the second clone.

that's very insightful, I completely agree. it would be for the best to release him as a good char

 

[Arcalyth]

After playing with him at The Big House 3, I have to say that Mewtwo is amazing. Super fun, makes me feel like a badass

Carrying people off-stage with bair+hover is fantastic. His combo potential is insane. He does mildly lack solid approach options and is at a pretty significant defensive disadvantage in the air so it doesn't seem like he's broken like was anticipated in this thread.

On the ground, teleport forces you to move (i.e. you cannot teleport in place from a grounded teleport). However you can SH teleport toward the ground to emulate a teleport-in-place. I've gotten a few kills from grounded teleport>fsmash but I'm not sure if those were fluke kills or not, as it seems like there's a fair amount of time after teleporting on the ground before you can act... In the air, though, spacing out teleport>shadowclaw or teleport>uair to finish a combo is sick, especially after exhausting hover. Still flying...

Much to any Melee Mewtwo player's joy, you can still pull people through the stage with Confusion, and it's even more effective now because the throw launches your opponent up and in front of you, which will stage spike if you pull someone through the stage. Of course this is mitigated by teching the throw, but it's still awesome.

Mewtwo's mobility feels more or less like Melee, except he can hover now. He has a relatively slow run speed that's made up for by a long wavedash. He has a decent tech chase game at low percents but he seems to profit most from all of his combo/hitsting setups, including his throws.

Dash attack and Dsmash have hitboxes that last longer. Dsmash has a nice linger to it that reaches until the end of the animation. Dash attack lasts longer too (I think), closer toward the end of the animation. Bthrow has less KB than in Melee, but Uthrow kills /significantly/ earlier. I was getting kills from 110-120%+ with Uthrow.

Mewtwo's recovery is godlike. Long DJ, or free hover, into a long teleport that has a variety of hitboxes at the end. Have fun. His edgeguarding is also godlike and his combos form into his edgeguard game seamlessly.

Fully charged Shadowball moves hella quick. Close to a charged Samus blaster shot, if not a little faster. He also charges it faster. It still retains its utility in recovery by shooting a shadowball backward, but it's not as dramatic of a momentum shift.

Mewtwo is fairly easy to combo. He's a little heavier than in Melee.

That's about all I've got for now after playing him for an hour or two... get hype, Mewtwo is sick.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Who else is gonna be practicing peach's float cancels until mewtwo is available
gonna need a base to build off, of course his hover and his respective aerials won't work exactly the same but at least it'll start the mental framework for the whole "my aerials are completely 'lagless" thingy

 

[Shell]

The exact attributes / timings of each aren't 100% the same so I wouldn't try to train peach's muscle memory into your hands or anything.

EDIT: Arcalyth's impressions are pretty much accurate but to my knowledge the U-throw and B-throw stats should be the same as melee... I'll look into that.

 

[DrinkingFood]

well like i said, it's more for a framework, not for straight muscle memory
i've never played with peach much, and any other character has notable landing lag on most or all aerials, it's actually pretty foreign to me that I could act almost instantly out of starting an aerial so close to the ground, it's really more about working out the muscle memory of l-canceling everything and the lag after each aerial being much slower, then working back in the scenarios where it's okay or not okay to try to l-cancel something and the smaller amount of landing lag that results from a float cancel
sure, i don't expect to master his hover cancels before he even comes out, it's just the best I can do in my/our dire situation of a lack of available mewtwo:m

 

[ItalianStallion]

Thank you Arcalyth for that write up. Mewtwo looks like he'll be balanced, and I'm glad I got a firsthand impression from a tester.

I'm excited that Mewtwo's Moonwalk looks as smooth as it did in Melee. I loved Moonwalking to wavedashing with Mewtwo. Now I'm going to be moonwalking, to wavedashing, to hovering, to teleporting, to aerials. I'm just going to keep doing that all over the stage until my opponent beats me. But I'll look super bad*** so I won't mind the loss.

 

[Shadow Huan]

it you wavedash into the moonwalk in melee he goes further lol

so long as he is actually an effective character with more than two good kill moves lol

 

[SmashShadow]

YOU'RE ALL DOOMED!!!!
(don't nerf plz)
-m2k

The top comment on that video.

 

[Shadow Huan]

gotta say after sleeping on it, he might play a little like a smash version of Scorpion from Injustice. what with the Teleport combos. which could be very awesome...

and gives me mire hope than Taj playtesting him to be honest.

actually, since like Taj I am also used to playing the terribad Melee Mewtwo, don't listen to me either

 

[NameChange]

You know what I want to see?
That awesome arm fold when he loses

 

[hamyojo]

Candy pink Mewtwo skin pls

 

[| Kailex |]

Glorious purple texture too, and maybe one with tatoos for no particular reason

 

[Nguz95]

Spoiler

After playing with him at The Big House 3, I have to say that Mewtwo is amazing. Super fun, makes me feel like a badass

Carrying people off-stage with bair+hover is fantastic. His combo potential is insane. He does mildly lack solid approach options and is at a pretty significant defensive disadvantage in the air so it doesn't seem like he's broken like was anticipated in this thread.

On the ground, teleport forces you to move (i.e. you cannot teleport in place from a grounded teleport). However you can SH teleport toward the ground to emulate a teleport-in-place. I've gotten a few kills from grounded teleport>fsmash but I'm not sure if those were fluke kills or not, as it seems like there's a fair amount of time after teleporting on the ground before you can act... In the air, though, spacing out teleport>shadowclaw or teleport>uair to finish a combo is sick, especially after exhausting hover. Still flying...

Much to any Melee Mewtwo player's joy, you can still pull people through the stage with Confusion, and it's even more effective now because the throw launches your opponent up and in front of you, which will stage spike if you pull someone through the stage. Of course this is mitigated by teching the throw, but it's still awesome.

Mewtwo's mobility feels more or less like Melee, except he can hover now. He has a relatively slow run speed that's made up for by a long wavedash. He has a decent tech chase game at low percents but he seems to profit most from all of his combo/hitsting setups, including his throws.

Dash attack and Dsmash have hitboxes that last longer. Dsmash has a nice linger to it that reaches until the end of the animation. Dash attack lasts longer too (I think), closer toward the end of the animation. Bthrow has less KB than in Melee, but Uthrow kills /significantly/ earlier. I was getting kills from 110-120%+ with Uthrow.

Mewtwo's recovery is godlike. Long DJ, or free hover, into a long teleport that has a variety of hitboxes at the end. Have fun. His edgeguarding is also godlike and his combos form into his edgeguard game seamlessly.

Fully charged Shadowball moves hella quick. Close to a charged Samus blaster shot, if not a little faster. He also charges it faster. It still retains its utility in recovery by shooting a shadowball backward, but it's not as dramatic of a momentum shift.

Mewtwo is fairly easy to combo. He's a little heavier than in Melee.

That's about all I've got for now after playing him for an hour or two... get hype, Mewtwo is sick.

I didn't know he would be at Big House 3. That's awesome! Thank you for the writeup Rikana. I have a few questions for you hough. Don't feel like you have to answer every one. I'm sure you didn't test all of these in the short time you had with Mewtwo. Thanks again!

1. Was he invincible during teleport? At what moment did the invincibility start?
2. Could you hover cancel immediately after an aerial teleport?
3. Did teleporting into the ground from the air have any landing lag?
4. How fast could you double jump cancel aerials?
5. Could you do rising and falling DJC aerials like Lucas and Ness?
6. How long was hover?
7. Was the tip of his ftilt strengthened at all?
8. Did dsmash's hitboxes go below the stage?
9. Did Mewtwo retain Lucario's wall cling?
10. How much was his dash and run speed buffed?

 

[Archangel]

I'm not gonna lie, If mewtwo ends up better than every other character by a significant margin I wouldn't care. He should've been broken since 2001. It's kinda what was expected considering how dominant he was as a pokemon back then.