Flavorless Mafia II: Gave over. Who won?

[#HBC | Mac]

I like that you're thinking about it less in a Ryker way and more of a player way, because I haven't really thought too hard about his questioning. Maybe that's a problem I'm having with the room, but I digress. I still disagree with it though only because that type of behavior from Ryker isn't exclusive, as other players have been doing it too, say Maven and Ruy for example. I just don't think this is concrete enough to solidify a different feeling towards Ryker despite him being down my throat, because the only other line of logic you have is that smaller interaction in RVS with Zen, which has not occured to me as useful or important at all, rather just minuscule RVS stuff. What do you think of Maven/Ruy btw?

I'd lynch Ruy or Maven, I think I alluded to this already but I can clearly say it again if you want. I don't really have a readslist (I never do) and it's more about who I think are good lynches and who I think are bad lynches.

I don't want to lynch Zen, Gheb, Mac, or Vult. Everyone else I would be okay with.

The problem I am facing right now is that you have people trying to grab the center of attention, and in this case, Zen is the one at the center. I try to not think about things in a manner where my reads are constantly shifting to the room just because somoene is big and obnoxious about it, even if I townread the person. I think the reasoning in my head towards Gheb at this very point in time is a lot more sensible than Zen, who tends to have behavioral and read-induced mood swings from time to time. Gheb has been sensible and for the most part logical throughout the whole day and It'd be a waste to just lynch him over semantics, which is what I feel right now. I am not the holy gheb derfender in this case, I just believe there is bigger fish to fry.

Ruy's content is acceptable but it is at the expense of him not really getting his hands dirty, spending more time making observation to what's going around instead of getting involved. Maybe this makes me a hypocrite as that is my approach right now, but I still don't understand why this is suddenly town from everyone. My meager observations on Ruy have equated to me feeling like he has nothing interesting to say, or particularly thoughtful. It doesn't take much brainpower to look at something and tell people how you feel, nor is it necessarily indicative of town. A mafia textbook defintion would be coasting and I also just really feel like Ruy would find something more to stick to but instead has been overall passive.

Maven I have problem with for somewhat of the same reason, only that his opinions remain stagnant and I don't see them progressing. It's almost funny in how they are polar opposites where Ruy is spending his time intaking every single detail going on and Maven is centering himself on one singular person and detail, only mostly posting about it. I don't believe the two are scum together but everyone else in my eyes is a lot better than both, even if it is again strange how their approaches are inherently different. My open question to Maven and to people is why Maven is not looking at other people that Zen has talked to or interacted with, which is basically almost everyone. He instead is making the same guttural mistake of trying to call people out on contradictions or fallacy logic or whatever it is that seems like a hot topic instead of something that sticks. The same goes for anyone who has really done that because I think that it all boils down to a matter of interpretation, and even then, the discrepancies being pointed out aren't all too damning in my eyes.

this is incredibly frustrating

 

[ranmaru]

Votecount 3.2

Red Ryu
Macman
Maven
Soup
Vult Redux

Not voting:
Red Ryu, Macman, Maven, Soup, Vult Redux

Important Links:
Game links and Vote Counts

Notes:
N/A

*= Currently being replaced
**= V/LA

With 5 players, it takes 3 votes to lynch
The deadline for Day 3 is October 8th, at 11:59 PM.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

OK Ruy, this is the reason I initially scumread you as partners with soup yesterDay (after Ryker claimed)

Stop dancing around Soup, he is playing worse than 2/3 of those players.

Vote: Soup

Xivii is his scummate whiteknighting him.

@#HBC | Ryker give me a read on zen then help me lynch Soup.

When Soup had done less than me and people are calling him town something is wrong here.

Why are we trying to lynch Ryker?

Soup needs to die ASAP.

Vult is town.

Mac help me out here.

so that's what i got for tonight. let's start there.

vote maven

Change to Soup, he must die.

#HBC stand together and lynch the scum that is Soup.

This was basically your first stream of posts after the Day started. I couldn't understand why you were soooo sure about soup. Your D1 play was way more reserved and then all of a sudden D2 you come out with this mostly unexplained, super hard push on soup.

Your reasoning seemed to be that soup hadn't done anything this game. While not a bad reason, inactivity didn't feel like a big enough reason to merit such a hard push out of nowhere.

I guess can you explain your thought process here and why you were so gung-ho on soup going?





Also, I just noticed this right now:

Maven, Soup and you[Me, mac] would be my top 3 picks, one is pushing Zen non stop with what I am not sure of him trying to read the slot over tunneling like you are. Soup is lurking hardcore, even worse than I am. You because 3rd wheel and I find you my least favorite of Ryker/Mac/Bardull.

This was near the end of D1.

What happened to your maven read going into D2? Why did your read on soup completely overshadow it to the point that you weren't ok with a Maven push? (shown below)

so that's what i got for tonight. let's start there.

vote maven

Change to Soup, he must die.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Maven89 , it's annoyingly hard to find much to work with about your slot. D1 you basically only defended Gheb and D2 there wasn't much more besides you pushing Zen. I do find it gross that your slot hasn't contributed more in terms of reads on players or pushes on anyone.

You scumRead Zen since D1 -- but I'm curious, what did you think of Ryker's reasoning for ZenScum yesterDay?

What are your current reads on Ruy and I? (you don't gotta like read up or anything, just give me whatever vague thoughts you have currently)

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Also just generally, why were you so committed to defending Gheb D1?

 

[Maven89]

I thought the push on Gheb was really, really dumb, made no sense and had no textual evidence, I didn't feel their quotes back up their positions at all. I still don't feel there was ever any reason to lynch Gheb. There was basically two stages to it, Xivii's early push on Gheb that made me scum read Xivii, then the second push for the same reasons that got Gheb lynched. The fact that Xivii would push the same points again, and that it worked, blew my mind. I still don't understand it.

So I decided Xivii needed to die for that because it was gross as ****. Xivii coming in and fake-quoting mafia communications was also gross as ****, as was his blatant mason baiting, which even now I'm not sure wtf he was going for. It wasn't until Xivii died and flipped town that I realized I had been tunneling way too hard on the Gheb push. But my gut said there's no way town pulled off a terrible mislynch for no reason without mafia support.

Other person that kept catching my eye was Vult, who jumped back and forth constantly on everything in this game. Soup was the third, I avoided most of his posts but based on other people and what I re-read he's done nothing of value the entire game.

So coming into this, with Xivii dead and town, I assumed the scumteam was probably Vult/Soup. But then it turns out Vult was mason, which was very frustrating because it meant I've been wrong on almost everything except Gheb, which I couldn't do anything about. So I try to get Soup to post and he clearly doesn't care about the game anymore. I've played with Soup many times, he's acted very scummy as town, he's one of the only people who I never feel confident lynching no matter what he's done because 50% of the time he seems to be town anyways. Finding out that he blatantly doesn't care about the game is even more frustrating .

So right now I'm wanting to lynch Soup and deal with everything later. Last thing I want is to get very involved in the game based on Soup only to find out he's town and was just phoning it in, ending the game and leaving all my effort wasted.

If you want to know between you and Ryu? If I had to pick one right now it'd probably be Ryu, just off the fact that I find it unlikely you'd tunnel Ryker the entire game as scum, especially after no one else took it up. There's the small possibility you hammered yesterday to try and save the game from turning to Soup, but I'd have hammered Xivii in your place so I don't feel that's likely at all. Overall I feel you've come off honest, I also know you're a good mafia player so you could be faking all of this, but right now I don't see a strong reason to scum read you. I also remember you pushed against the Gheb lynch, which is a point in your favor.

I don't have a strong reason to scum read Ryu either, but I also can't think of any reason to town read him.

So that's basically where I'm at. I realize I've been focusing way too much on certain people to the extent of everyone else. If you guys need me to contribute more before we lynch Soup, I could re-read entirely off the idea Soup is scum to try and find a partner, but I'd really rather do that after Soup was lynched and we know if the game will continue so I won't feel dumb and wasted.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

K ty

What were your thoughts on the reasoning behind Ryker's push yesterDay on Zen

 

[Maven89]

I had to look those up. I'm guessing you're talking about https://smashboards.com/threads/fla...-08-2016-11-59pm.441616/page-15#post-21464562

It's all based on Xivii being scum with Soup. I thought it was valid to look at after Xivii died, but I wasn't pushing Xivii over Soup connections, I was pushing him based on his Gheb push. I don't think I thought too much about it other then "this is useful after we get Zen lynched". As he turned out to be town I don't see much value in it.

 

[Vult Redux]

i guess i'll wait

 

[Vult Redux]

the fact that Xivii would push the same points again, and that it worked, blew my mind. I still don't understand it.

Deadline scramble. /:

which I remember criticizing you on. #HBC | Mac and #HBC | Red Ryu I wrote up a post early d2 that came down on Maven hard for his near-deadline behavior. Just eview that and take it into consideration tomorrow.

if you want to know between you and Ryu? If I had to pick one right now it'd probably be Ryu, just off the fact that I find it unlikely you'd tunnel Ryker the entire game as scum, especially after no one else took it up.

Remember that he also pressured Ryker the most to claim prematurely. /:

And he used some ****ty points to push Ryker. He called up Gheb's and Bardull's scumreads on him and incorporated that into his case.

 

[Vult Redux]

Maven89 who did you think the masons were around D2? and early D3?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

what exactly did you mean by this? you were looking into a potential maven / mac team?




I don't think Maven is town any longer.

i think you overrate the value to scum of lynching Zen before soup.

I still think it'd be weird for me as scum to draw so much attention to myself with such a hammer. Especially given that literally everyone in the game, save Ryker and Maven (who had me as null), thought I was town. I also think it's unlikely that as MacScum I would go and ask Maven to unvote Zen so we could consider Zen's claim idea and then after going through that effort turn around and hammer him.

Also I find it incredibly weird that I'm getting so much **** for this hammer when literally everyone was down with Zen scum besides me (Vult even tried to get Ruy [i think it was Ruy] to hammer Zen yesterDay). Especially odd given that you guys want to end toDay early despite the fact that barely anyone has talked about **** as opposed to d2 where a considerable amount of discussion happened

still got some thoughts i wanna post

Looking between you and Maven on being scum since I don't like how either of you just quick ended the day when Vult asked for content and I made it clear I would rather support a Soup Lynch.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I also wanted Ryker's in thread thoughts on a lot of the players at large before anything got dropped.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

this is true, soup should not have lived this long, Maven should not have lived this long. lynching Gheb and Zen was a huge mistake because they at least have content that tie them to other slots, and are willing to actually post.



What exactly did you mean by this? Side with you guys on what specifically

(also fwiw Ruy I'm not tryna single you out with these questions, you just have more content to work with then Maven)

Me and Vult who are both town and trying to get **** done when everyone was doing pretty much nothing.

 

[Vult Redux]

I also wanted Ryker's in thread thoughts on a lot of the players at large before anything got dropped.

fwiw ryker's last words to me where that he doesn't like Mac's hammer, thought Ryu seemed aggressive, Soup looks like ****, and Maven is Mavem.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Me and Vult who are both town and trying to get **** done when everyone was doing pretty much nothing.

what specifically though -- "get **** done"? Trying to confirm this wasn't just an empty statement. I think a bunch of town was doing a lot.

anyway, the most important question i asked you was about your soup push, which is the biggest thing that makes me worry about your slot.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Looking between you and Maven on being scum since I don't like how either of you just quick ended the day when Vult asked for content and I made it clear I would rather support a Soup Lynch.

well obv at least one of us is scum from your townPOV

i was asking if you were looking at us as a team

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Deadline scramble. /:

which I remember criticizing you on. #HBC | Mac and #HBC | Red Ryu I wrote up a post early d2 that came down on Maven hard for his near-deadline behavior. Just eview that and take it into consideration tomorrow.

yea I had the same issues with his EoD behavior

Remember that he also pressured Ryker the most to claim prematurely. /:

And he used some ****ty points to push Ryker. He called up Gheb's and Bardull's scumreads on him and incorporated that into his case.

you still haven't explained to me whats wrong with mason claiming. I still think it's a good thing to do now and I'll think it's a good thing to do after the game ends. Zen was town and he also thought that. If no mason claimed yesterday, then it's HIGHLY likely either you or Ryker would have died anyway. If one of you didn't die than I'd potentially have had to deal with a scumteam ccing your slots, and I since I already had a hard-on for ryker scum, I might not have sided with you guys.

and yea i was tryna get ryker lynched. i thought he was scum and unlike the other ppls that seemingly were doing nothing this game, I worried that he'd actually be able to get a way with it. the fact that other ppl in town agreed with Ryker scum just validated the read a bit more imo

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Vult Redux after Ruy responds, can you tell me why you're so confident in RuyTown

 

[Maven89]

Maven89 who did you think the masons were around D2? and early D3?

I had no real thoughts on it until end of Day 2, when I figured the other mason was probably Ryu due to the way he responded to Xivii's question. I didn't look too into it.

Deadline scramble. /:

which I remember criticizing you on. #HBC | Mac and #HBC | Red Ryu I wrote up a post early d2 that came down on Maven hard for his near-deadline behavior. Just eview that and take it into consideration tomorrow.

Yeah that case was bull****. I pushed hard against Gheb, attempting to say I didn't do enough is ridiculous. You and everyone else are the ones that didn't do enough, not me. If I didn't convince you it's because you weren't open to being convinced.The Gheb push was nonsense. I did everything I could to showcase that. Everyone decides to stop reading or playing the game, so I'm supposed to throw someone randomly under the bus I'm not sure is scum? Your push came off as you refusing to accept responsibility for the horrible Gheb push so you try to throw it at someone else, and you threw it at the one person who spoke against it the entire time. There's a good reason I was scum reading you.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

woah woah woah maven, i spoke against the gheb push hard too.

 

[Vult Redux]

Yeah that case was bull****. I pushed hard against Gheb, attempting to say I didn't do enough is ridiculous. You and everyone else are the ones that didn't do enough, not me. If I didn't convince you it's because you weren't open to being convinced.The Gheb push was nonsense. I did everything I could to showcase that. Everyone decides to stop reading or playing the game, so I'm supposed to throw someone randomly under the bus I'm not sure is scum? Your push came off as you refusing to accept responsibility for the horrible Gheb push so you try to throw it at someone else, and you threw it at the one person who spoke against it the entire time. There's a good reason I was scum reading you.

it's more that you disappeared at a critical time even though you said you'd be present. We really could have used town!you there saying you would vote Soup; that didn't happen. If you had been there Ryker/Me/you/Bardull could have flipped the vote

 

[Vult Redux]

iirc (correct me if I'm wrong) Mac WAS present at deadline and did throw out compromise suggestions. imo he gets points for that.

 

[Vult Redux]

I think Ryu is town because the night kill makes a lot of sense when you consider that mafia are vvery very very motivated to hunt masons at night. Also his reads have been better than both of yours

 

[#HBC | Mac]

oh right, it's because of that bardull/ryu mason night kill logic that i still don't fully understand.

wrt reads, fair enough. though as scum it's easy to have the right reads lol. plus the fact that many confirmed townies scumread ryker / you should make it more understandable / less scummy that we had scumreads on you guys.

 

[Vult Redux]

nvm I just read the end of D1 and you both sucked. Neither of you talked about Soup even though I and Ryker and Ryu and Bardull suggested it. Mac tunneled Ryker and Maven tunneled me/Zen.

no offense but if whoever's town between the two of you votes Ryu tomorrow it'd be ridiculous. one of you is scum.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

OK Ruy, this is the reason I initially scumread you as partners with soup yesterDay (after Ryker claimed)













This was basically your first stream of posts after the Day started. I couldn't understand why you were soooo sure about soup. Your D1 play was way more reserved and then all of a sudden D2 you come out with this mostly unexplained, super hard push on soup.

Your reasoning seemed to be that soup hadn't done anything this game. While not a bad reason, inactivity didn't feel like a big enough reason to merit such a hard push out of nowhere.

I guess can you explain your thought process here and why you were so gung-ho on soup going?





Also, I just noticed this right now:


This was near the end of D1.

What happened to your maven read going into D2? Why did your read on soup completely overshadow it to the point that you weren't ok with a Maven push? (shown below)

I wanted to pressure/lynch Soup because I was getting sick of him sitting in a corner and doing nothing all game while mudslinging people for doing the same thing he was. In addition I got no idea where his direction was much when he did post and I found myself not liking what he posted.

I was gun-ho because it was a slot that absolutely should have not lived to a lylo situation.

This is why I was so angry you guys lynched Zen, because Soup needed to go ASAP.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

well obv at least one of us is scum from your townPOV

i was asking if you were looking at us as a team

No.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

what specifically though -- "get **** done"? Trying to confirm this wasn't just an empty statement. I think a bunch of town was doing a lot.

anyway, the most important question i asked you was about your soup push, which is the biggest thing that makes me worry about your slot.

Me and Vult were trying to make content today and make sure people weren't just sitting til deadline to do anything.

Soup flip told me about Zen and I would have something to go on with content.

You/Maven/Soup in lylo is absolutely what I didn't want.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I wanted to pressure/lynch Soup because I was getting sick of him sitting in a corner and doing nothing all game while mudslinging people for doing the same thing he was. In addition I got no idea where his direction was much when he did post and I found myself not liking what he posted.

I was gun-ho because it was a slot that absolutely should have not lived to a lylo situation.

This is why I was so angry you guys lynched Zen, because Soup needed to go ASAP.

why did soup have to go more than Maven? why did you drop your read on Maven between d1 and d2

 

[#HBC | Mac]

nvm I just read the end of D1 and you both sucked. Neither of you talked about Soup even though I and Ryker and Ryu and Bardull suggested it. Mac tunneled Ryker and Maven tunneled me/Zen.

no offense but if whoever's town between the two of you votes Ryu tomorrow it'd be ridiculous. one of you is scum.

being wrong =/= being scummy -- likewise for right / townie.

though I will reread the end of D1 wrt Ruy pushing soup. when I read yesterday, I didn't think he pushed soup very strongly (and it seemed like soup was just on of his lynch suggestions in addition to maven, others) but I might be misremebering.



fwiw, if right now I HAD to choose who I'm voting tomorrow I think if it'd be Ruy. I'm still not understanding what motivated him to start pushing soup so strongly at the beginning of D2 as opposed to other slots he scumread at the end of D1. He keeps holding onto the "I really wanted Soup to go first" and "Soup was so scummy because of activity" but I feel that it doesn't adequately explain him completely dropping his Maven read.

maybe i'm being ridiculous Vult Redux, but I'm tryna work this out

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

why did soup have to go more than Maven? why did you drop your read on Maven between d1 and d2

I never dropped it I prioritized Soup over him. Soup needed to go because it was a virtually blank slot skirting by with barely any activity.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

being wrong =/= being scummy -- likewise for right / townie.

though I will reread the end of D1 wrt Ruy pushing soup. when I read yesterday, I didn't think he pushed soup very strongly (and it seemed like soup was just on of his lynch suggestions in addition to maven, others) but I might be misremebering.



fwiw, if right now I HAD to choose who I'm voting tomorrow I think if it'd be Ruy. I'm still not understanding what motivated him to start pushing soup so strongly at the beginning of D2 as opposed to other slots he scumread at the end of D1. He keeps holding onto the "I really wanted Soup to go first" and "Soup was so scummy because of activity" but I feel that it doesn't adequately explain him completely dropping his Maven read.

maybe i'm being ridiculous Vult Redux, but I'm tryna work this out

OMFG, I didn't drop the read, I went for Soup because he wasn't doing jack **** and barely getting by on limited content.

Why would you want a slot like that in lylo?!

Zen would at least have something to him and have some trail to read into. Soup I wanted gone because he wasn't doing anything and when he did post he gave nothing.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

being wrong =/= being scummy -- likewise for right / townie.

No but if those reads make sense and they have been pushing better directions, that tends to more likely be a townie vs someone who is consistently wrong and makes every single wrong push which is also what scum wants.

Scum wants town to be wrong, town wants town to be right.

Town can be wrong, but you can understand why.

You seem to have serious problems with me for being right. (Hint hint, I was wrong about Gheb)

 

[#HBC | Mac]

for reference these are Ruy's last posts of D1, less than 3 hours before deadline.

Reading up.

I get the issue with the passiveness I have put out this game, I get it. It's something I would do as scum at times, which goes to show I need to be more proactive in mafia games as of late. Still something to work on later for now focusing on here.

Still down to lynch Gheb, I came around when I read Zen's case on him with everything in context. I have flip flopped on him but this also has to do with the fact I've been reading back and with with him and Zen on what I thought made sense from a town perspective.

#HBC | Mac I don't like how you have been playing in terms of your Ryker read. More so where it came from and how you have been pushing it, but half of it I can see you doing as either alignment. I don't have a strong urge to lynch you, not over other slots. I find you to be on par with Ryker for at the end of the game kind of lynch. Might switch around with Bardull in there as well but I'm pretty sold on Vult and Zen being A-OK with me right now.

Maven, Soup and you would be my top 3 picks, one is pushing Zen non stop with what I am not sure of him trying to read the slot over tunneling like you are. Soup is lurking hardcore, even worse than I am. You because 3rd wheel and I find you my least favorite of Ryker/Mac/Bardull.

from this post it seems like his scumread priorities are equally Maven and Soup. Like I mentioned earlier, I don't really see why between D1 and D2 he started prioritizing Soup so heavily over Maven.

Vote Gheb

L-1

You thinking it is that likely that I am scum?

to ryker (prolly not relevant rn but posted it for completeness' sake)

I don't get the defense of Soup, I didn't like him during him vs Bardull and he's doing a lot of the same beats I am while not quite voting as much as I did.

What in particular stands out to make him more townie?

This is what I assume Vult Redux is referring to when he says Ruy suggested soup as an alternative.

Though I can easily see scumRuy partnered with Soup making a light bussing post like this. At this point it's very likely that Gheb would be the lynch -- I mean Ruy already put Gheb at L-1. So as scum, it'd be pretty safe to shed suspicion on a mate without worry of him actually dying. It'd be an easy way to get towniebrownie points. He also doesn't directly push Soup here which also strengthens this point.

Maven89 what do you think about this.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

OMFG, I didn't drop the read, I went for Soup because he wasn't doing jack **** and barely getting by on limited content.

Why would you want a slot like that in lylo?!

Zen would at least have something to him and have some trail to read into. Soup I wanted gone because he wasn't doing anything and when he did post he gave nothing.

yea I get why you're saying you thought Soup was scum. I agree with all this.

and yes you've made it very clear toDay that you wanted Soup to go first and didn't want him in lylo. I get that

No but if those reads make sense and they have been pushing better directions, that tends to more likely be a townie vs someone who is consistently wrong and makes every single wrong push which is also what scum wants.

Scum wants town to be wrong, town wants town to be right.

Town can be wrong, but you can understand why.

You seem to have serious problems with me for being right. (Hint hint, I was wrong about Gheb)

@bolded: kinda, it's not exactly that I have problems with you being right. it's more that your confidence on your SoupRead skyrocketed from D1 to D2. and I'm trying to understand why that happened. Why you went from not really pushing soup that hard D1 to pushing him really hard at the beginning of D2 (while disregarding your other scumread).

 

[#HBC | Mac]

OMFG, I didn't drop the read, I went for Soup because he wasn't doing jack **** and barely getting by on limited content.

It felt like you dropped the Maven read since when vult voted Maven you told him to move to soup cuz he's def scum. Plus you also brought up Zen as problematic. Would you say Maven was 2nd / 3rd scumread on your list at that time?

and lol pls don't get frustrated that I'm questioning you. if im town I kinda have to do this ****

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Other person that kept catching my eye was Vult, who jumped back and forth constantly on everything in this game. Soup was the third, I avoided most of his posts but based on other people and what I re-read he's done nothing of value the entire game.

When in the game did Soup start being on your radar.

So that's basically where I'm at. I realize I've been focusing way too much on certain people to the extent of everyone else. If you guys need me to contribute more before we lynch Soup, I could re-read entirely off the idea Soup is scum to try and find a partner, but I'd really rather do that after Soup was lynched and we know if the game will continue so I won't feel dumb and wasted.

you don't have to do this. only reason i'm doing it is so I can see Vult's thoughts about what I'm thinking before he dies.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

yea I get why you're saying you thought Soup was scum. I agree with all this.

and yes you've made it very clear toDay that you wanted Soup to go first and didn't want him in lylo. I get that



@bolded: kinda, it's not exactly that I have problems with you being right. it's more that your confidence on your SoupRead skyrocketed from D1 to D2. and I'm trying to understand why that happened. Why you went from not really pushing soup that hard D1 to pushing him really hard at the beginning of D2 (while disregarding your other scumread).

People didn't like me being passive day 1.

It was a problem with my play and I needed to fix it. I went hard aggro to fix that because I get meta wise people think me being passive is being scummy.

That is why I jumped up and went at Soup. Everyone had a problem with my day 1 being passive, I went at the slot I thought really needed to die, Soup.

Why would I go at Maven who had something of value in content? Or you who might have changed direction aftercare the Mason.

I was angry at both you and Maven for the hammer because I didn't want the day to end and I wanted a different direction.

I went gun-ho yo fix my passivity issue. Which was a concern even I admitted about myself. I even Bair called Zen scum to get him to talk and discuss Soup to help me figure out if he was just wrong or legitimately his mate.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

People didn't like me being passive day 1.

i've been waiting for you to say this

hm