Flavorless Mafia II: Gave over. Who won?

[#HBC | Mac]

i have more to say on that point, but first I'd like to hear from maven about what he thinks of my points regarding scumRuy bussing Soup.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

It felt like you dropped the Maven read since when vult voted Maven you told him to move to soup cuz he's def scum. Plus you also brought up Zen as problematic. Would you say Maven was 2nd / 3rd scumread on your list at that time?

and lol pls don't get frustrated that I'm questioning you. if im town I kinda have to do this ****

Because Soup was skirting the whole game on this.

Maven at least had drive and direction.

Soup would get a wagon and then do something or die. If he didn't we lynch him and no loss to town, if he did something we could have something tangable outside of him vs Bardull.

I have a deep dislike of super inactive slots and I plan for end game situations.

Soup would have been a terrible spot to keep around based on his play alone.

Maven would at least bring something to the table and gave something more for me to think this over.

I'm getting annoyed because you think me trying to prioritize him over Maven was scummy.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I'm getting annoyed because you think me trying to prioritize him over Maven was scummy.

I mean I have to look for potential scum tells from both you and Maven since you guys are my only options lol.

prioritizing him isn't what I found scummy. Doing it without a clear reason why is what I had an issue with.

anyway, Ruy we can stop the back n forth. It's now completely clear what your defense of this is and we're just reiterating points.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

rando thought, it'd be cool to get stats on how often scum bus each other on this site.

 

[Vult Redux]

being wrong =/= being scummy -- likewise for right / townie.

my point was that you failed to join in on a potential flip to lynch Soup D1 because you were too focused on another player. it could have been deliberate.

And you also saved him D2 so it's a trend.

I never said wrong = scummy. and i don't think anything i said suggests that. i was ver wrong about Zen lol

 

[Vult Redux]

Maven89 #HBC | Red Ryu

just as a reminder this is Mac's answer to my criticizing his Zen hammer.

i literally said i wanted to reread him.

i directly asked you if you wanted to change to Soup.

YOU directly asked Ryker if he was down for your hammer, and he never replied.

I guess you accidentally forgot to announce your hammer and give people a chance to change their mind

oopsie!

i mean I can't really disagree with anything here.

but when I hammer I go all in.

anyway, I thought it was pretty clear that I wanted to vote soup instead by yknow actually voting soup and leaving Zen out of my scumreads. After you berated my reads in that post (like you guys have done to every read I made all game) I just resigned myself to going along with Xivii. I figured that since I was so wrong on Ryker maybe you guys do have a better sense of who the play is.

Bonus: he said this a couple posts later.

Soup is obvscum. He's clearly stopped paying attention to the game, and if he's town we should lose anyways

just to throw that out there....

#justiceforZen

 

[Vult Redux]

i feel like a biased debate moderator

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I see what you mean now., it could be deliberate that I chose other lynches over a potential soup lynch each day. Fair. My only defense there is the wifom that as scum, keeping Soup alive yesterday wouldn't have been worth me looking bad over that hammer. Also that as scum, it'd be weird for me to go out of my way to postpone Zen's lynch just to turn around and hammer him soon after.

yep, soup was obvscum.

despite what my hammer might imply, I started thinking that Soup was obvscum at the end of yesterDay -- right after he responded to my question about his reads with nonsensical reads.

but like I stated in previous posts -- at that point I had stopped caring about what my reads were and resigned myself to just voting Zen since I thought it's what literally everyone else wanted (specifically Ryker). but now you and ruy are giving me **** for hammering Zen when you both thought he was scum (much earlier in the day Vult, you yo8rself even specifically told someone they should hammer him).

so to recap:
what vult believes: Despite postponing Zen's lynch earlier in the day (in stark contrast to everyone else in Town). I hammered Zen because I as scum was worried that maybe Zen would escape his wagon (despite him stating multiple times that he was the best lynch). And I was worried that my super valuable scumpartner Soup would die instead.

the alternative (and true lol) possibility: I hammered zen for the reasons I stated. Because I was resigned after learning my Ryker read was wrong and just wanted to go along with Town. And because I was frustrated by the wifom of Zen's voting himself and because it appeared that he was trying to pull more information out of the masons.

 

[Vult Redux]

meh. can't say I think that Soup's valuable partner lol. i mean ofc he's valuable as a number but still

 

[Vult Redux]

Also that as scum, it'd be weird for me to go out of my way to postpone Zen's lynch just to turn around and hammer him soon after.

i don't think you get points for this at all

much earlier in the day Vult, you yo8rself even specifically told someone they should hammer him).

i mean i thought he forfeited so yeah

i think i dropped enough hints that I was thinking of changing my target /:

 

[Vult Redux]

interesting thought... i was pretty sure Zen had forfeited because i didn't have outside info that he was town. They were pretty convincing too <_<

mafia-aligned players who knew he was town would obviously not have confused his intentions there.

Maven's reaction:

Is there a joke here? or did Xivii seriously just post communications?

Confusion...

Mac's reaction:

@HBC | Ryker, not sure why you avoided my questions.

Who are your thoughts on the other scummers? Maven and I?

continues on as if nothing happen; even directs a question at Zen (second quote). Pretty clear he didn't buy the fake convo.



in this case I think Maven gets 0 points and Mac gets -4 #HBC | Red Ryu

 

[Vult Redux]

^ my writing skills are bad. in short, Maven's reaction to Zen posting the "scumchat convo" is more null leaning town and Mac's is scummy.

 

[Vult Redux]

at this point I'm just digging up random evidence so you all have it to consider. /: i just coincidentally find things that confirm my reads

 

[Vult Redux]

Though I can easily see scumRuy partnered with Soup making a light bussing post like this. At this point it's very likely that Gheb would be the lynch -- I mean Ruy already put Gheb at L-1. So as scum, it'd be pretty safe to shed suspicion on a mate without worry of him actually dying. It'd be an easy way to get towniebrownie points. He also doesn't directly push Soup here which also strengthens this point.

possible, I guess, but risky. deadline scramble with a lot of people not happy with a Gheb lynch means the target could shift to someone else really quickly.

mpov is pretty useful because I had a partner. So here it is: I knew for sure I had to express strong dissent from Ryker lynch even though it gave away our position. I played it safe. D1 losing your partner sucks. Scum (ie either you or Maven) could have played it safe too. Which is exactly what one of you did (assuming scum!soup).

In short, this alone is weak. not enough to suggest that he was bussing.

if soup flips Mafia Detective, then I even more strongly would doubt Ryu (or anyone) bussing him.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i knew it was fake because
1. I can see Zen pulling bs like that (as both town and scum)
2. so I checked the timestamps to see if they matched up with **** happening in thread

good point about mafia detective.

(though I think in theoretical perfect mafia play, the detective is useless after d1 anyways. so bussing d2 wouldn't be a big deal. Though i doubt soup + maven or ruy would have been thinking bout that)

 

[ranmaru]

Votecount 3.3

Red Ryu
Macman
Maven
Soup
Vult Redux

Not voting:
Red Ryu, Macman, Maven, Soup, Vult Redux

Important Links:
Game links and Vote Counts

Notes:
N/A

*= Currently being replaced
**= V/LA

With 5 players, it takes 3 votes to lynch
The deadline for Day 3 is October 8th, at 11:59 PM.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I think we are done at this point.

Maven89 Give your thoughts on Mac stuff so I can vote Soup please.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

5:00PM CST I am dropping a vote down no matter what.

 

[Vult Redux]

maybe we should lynch Mac and let Soup do the kill because he probably doesn't know who the Mason is LOL

 

[Vult Redux]

maven im so impressed you kept your masonry a secret this whole time

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Vote: Soup

Close enough to 5.

 

[Vult Redux]

vote: Soup

 

[Vult Redux]

the worst part of gonna be waiting 48 hours to go to the dumb old dead qt ughgughghgh

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Btw maven was veiwing this morning and didn't post.

Vult who is scummier right now to you, mac or Maven?

I dislike both slots.

 

[Vult Redux]

I don't like mentioning it but saw Mac view earlier and not post, also.

In your place I'd vote Mac. Not by a landslide though; Maven's slot is also bad.

 

[Maven89]

Yeah I don't have all time to make mafia posts

Quick version? I think Mac's case on Ryu busing Soup is weak. I don't like his answer about hammering Zen after believing Soup was Obvscum.

I'll get into details later when I'm free, it'll contain a Soup vote

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I did view earlier and not post. Am I supposed to say something in response to ruy saying he'll hammer?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Unvote

Going to wait a tiny bit long for that post from Maven.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I did view earlier and not post. Am I supposed to say something in response to ruy saying he'll hammer?

Final thoughts for tomorrow like direction etc?

 

[Vult Redux]

i can't believe the endgame is a player who has posted like twice, a player who has whined a lot, and a player who been been active...ly working against the town the whole game

i want gheb and bardull and zen back.

plz

 

[Maven89]

Maven89 what do you think about this.

Gonna be honest, I think it's a real weak case, and I'm drawing the opposite conclusion from it. Him pushing Soup real hard early day 2 makes it less likely for him to be scum if Soup is (which at this point is basically a given, unless it's you/Ryu in which case MVP to both of you). I don't think it lines up. He mentioned Soup as a scum read earlier, so it's not out of the blue. Plus, scum got Gheb lynched. You don't lynch Gheb then turn around and bus your partner D2 without some good reason, and I don't see any.

When in the game did Soup start being on your radar.

Around day 2 when everyone else started bringing him up

I might as well get around to the re-read since it looks like we're definitely having a Day 4, but I'm looking into Vult's clam that Mac agreed to hammer Zen to save Soup. That's an interesting potential.

So you can say I'm going into tomorrow 60%mac 40% ryu. Hopefully it'll be clearer when I re-read

Vote: Soup

 

[Maven89]

i can't believe the endgame is a player who has posted like twice, a player who has whined a lot, and a player who been been active...ly working against the town the whole game

i want gheb and bardull and zen back.

plz

Then maybe you shouldn't have lynched them! /whine

 

[Vult Redux]

i guess neither of them hammering means it's not a Mac/Maven team... meh

 

[Vult Redux]

Then maybe you shouldn't have lynched them! /whine

:V those are fightin words

ilu

 

[Vult Redux]

Maven if you lynch Ryu tomorrow i'm gonna be so mad.

i'm trusting you.....

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Vote: Soup

hammered.

Only thing I am mad about this game is not lynching Soup earlier.

 

[Vult Redux]

ryu if you're scum i'm going to fly to wherever you live and beat you up

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

ryu if you're scum i'm going to fly to wherever you live and beat you up

I'm not scum I promise this to the day I die.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

ok this is Brewyu talking but w/e.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I dunno with mac vs Maven both look bad to me, more so mac because he feels so forced trying to call me scum and things you pointed out.

uggggg, still Maven has been very not here and doing what he has.