Flavorless Mafia: Game Over. Who won?

[#HBC | Gorf]

Good luck staying alive @ #HBC | Nabe

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I actually busted my brothers laptop screen, so my non computer time is still going. I still strongly think that lynching the three replaced slots will offer us scum. I don't think Nabe is scum of the three but am willing to concede with his lynch since, hey, I may be wrong on jakestan. But I don't know where exactly I wanna look. Input would be lovely though from these slots

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Bromarsh and ridic are town via their play.
Kary and Nabistan are likely town through connections with J.
Fanny or dabuz die toDay.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Go town, get bodied scum.

 

[rid****ulous]

Bromarsh and ridic are town via their play.
Kary and Nabistan are likely town through connections with J.
Fanny or dabuz die toDay.

This is one of the few times I can say I agree with gheb.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

good to hear i'm finally getting credit for my hard carry of town my past two days

 

[Fandangox]

Here's where my head's at the moment:

Town
Rid****ulous
frozenmarsh751
Gorf
Kary
Nabe
Dabuz
Nicholas1024
Gheb_01
Scum


Ridickculous is the universal town read for good reason. He caught Garf hard, pinpointed J as scum, and has been interacting with all the slots and moving the game forward.

Frozenmarsh had few posts but most of them read town to me, his intent reads genuine to me, and coming off from being Marshy's partner on Rake's Canadafia His post don't raise any redflags to me atm.

Gorf's a tricky one. There's been some inconsistencies with his play (like his reaction to J's AtE and then telling July he didn't actually meant he townread J there) and he has been prone to changing votes too much as the thread moves along. However he has been interacting with pretty much all of the slots, also moving the game forward. His interactions with J and Soup in particular make me feel the slot is town.

Kary: I pretty much agree with Soup's #602 on that Kary's jump on J doesn't look like a partner interaction. I don't think these two slots are a team, but beyond that there's nothing this slot has done for me to town read it, just Null at the moment.

Nabe: Completely Null. On J's Jakestan adoration post, I don't think J would risk getting connected to a scumpartner in this manner, is risky and reads more to me like J trying to buddy JS for manipulation, like ridick pointed out. However the slot has been catching up for like 2 weeks, so the slots itself is really null. Does anyone more familiar with J's play would know if scum J would make a connection on his scumpartner the way he did with JS?

Dabuz: Dabuz asking Frozenmarsh why they brought up that Badwolf post at that time instead of when it was made makes sense to me, but the way he interpreted frozenmarh's post and how he reacted to Marshy avoiding to answer his question does looks really bad.

Nich: I love the logic that he used in early D1, and his case on Garg was pretty good... but I don't remember anything else this slot has done that has been substantial. The only meaningful interactions I remember are his Garg case and some questions to July. He called out Garg on his read having only townleans and nulls and not being helpful to town, and yet his last readlist is exactly like that. Of course 4 slots were inactive and 3 replaced out, so there's some justification. But I haven't seen Nich chip in much. Same question as with J's. Does anyone more familiar with his Nich's meta know if this is how he usually plays as town?

@ Nicholas1024 What are your scumreads right now?

IR: IR is who I think is most likely to be scum. His only push has been Honk early D1 and while he has been posting without having to be prompted to do so, he has been more of a background player after he stated he didn't see Honk's lynch happening D1. He voted Kary and Garg, but didn't really push them much. He previously stated dislike for those slots before voting them, so at least it is consistent. But his reason for voting these slots were very vague and just stating he would think the flips would be beneficial.

I am leaving to work on a bit, so won't be around for follow up until late at night.

 

[Fandangox]

I'm also disappointed that you seem to have nothing interesting to say. You got nothing to add other than the obvious? What about Gorf attacking your slot yesterDay?

To be perfectly honest I would have been scumreading Ryu had I not replaced into his slot. I don't see anything wrong with the way Gorf pushed Ryu D1. Hell even J's reason to vote Ryu (as opportunistic as they were) were valid.

 

[rid****ulous]

Can you bring up those reasons fand? (Wrt j and voting ryu)

 

[Fandangox]

Bolded I really do not like this. Ruy is not looking for scum actions, but anti-town/unhelpful reasons as to why to lynch people (namely Gorf in this situation). Why is he making it a point to look for anti-town/unhelpful>scummy for D1? Policies like this annoy me because it's just like lynching an inactive D1 and people hiding behind that to garner a lynch.

The thing that keeps me is that you keep saying Gorf is an "okay to vig slot" but why? I see no indication of this ever being this case or where he would be this game, or even if we were to go outside this game he isn't in the category of that.

Those were J's only two posts on voting Ryu, they are valid reasons, albeit short. Also pointing out Ryu mentioning Gorf was an okay vig to slot seemed good to me since Ryu never explicitly states why. Of course in hindsigh this looks different now since we know J was scum. I mostly brought it up as an indication of how I saw Ryu's play not J's if that's why you are asking.

On Gorf voting Ryu he has been on and off on that most of the game, but the particular post that stood out to me was when he pointed out Ryu's play was self centered, although I cannot seem find it.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Yea not good enough. Go harder on your scum reads cuz your Gheb reasoning is trash and false, your dabuz reasoning is generic, and your Nich reasoning is either contrived or massively skimmed.

But I'll let you try again.

 

[Fandangox]

How is it false? I mean I could be remembering wrong, since I haven't re-read since my initial catch up, but I don't remember any other push that slot made aside from Honk, hell I remember he stating he would "blatantly sheep" any wagon that appeared since Honk was not happening that phase.

Same with Nich, after his Garg's post he fell into the background and didn't provide much input, he was VLA at some point, but if I am remembering correctly it was a short one and he didn't say anything substantial after that.

I don't even know how can you use generic to describe a read, you mean vague? Dabuz has had few posts and Badwolf only had a single one. There's not much else I can say about the slot that Ridick and Soup haven't already pointed out.

Idk if it's **** dabunz speaking but this post alone makes me consider lynching dabunz. His j piece is VERY hollow and that last assertion about fromar seems like some sort of petty crutch to lean on just in case his null read wants to turn into a scum read. **** dabunz.

This doesn't help either.

WHADDAYA KNOW DABUZ SEEMS LIKE HE CHANGED HIS MIND!

Yea I like what town's doing, you're making me happy

You yourself seem to be scumreading Dabuz too, and agree with the sentiment that his marshy push was bad.

I honestly don't have much to say on this slot, I just agree with what you guys pointed out. The most I can say that hasn't been mentioned is that I don't really think his J vote looks bad in itself.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

generic - characteristic of or relating to a class or group of things; not specific.

Synonyms

general, common, collective,nonspecific, inclusive, all-encompassing, broad,comprehensive, blanket,

I'll accept your justification for lack of insight on dabuz though.

Well I assure that if you're town you are going to get to looking at Gheb and Nich's posts more. Their posting is not nearly as dry as you make it out to be.

 

[Nicholas1024]

It's more that after Garg, I've been pretty busy in real life. That combined with the fact that most of the slots here were either obvious town or replacing out/inactive meant that I had very little motivation to analyze the game. However, what I'm wondering is why you have my inactivity as scummy, and yet you have Nabe's inactivity as completely null. True, I haven't been the most active on D2, but I've at least posted.

Anyway, at the moment my reads mirror Gheb's. Ridiculous and Fromarsh are obvious town. Gheb/Gorf 's play has also been fairly townie, and while I haven't particularly liked Nabe/Kary's play (or lack thereof), their interactions with J make me think they're less likely to be scum. So at the moment, I agree that scum is probably between dabuz and Fand. I'm not particularly sure which it is though, I need to look back at the D1 interactions (considering everyone knew J was dead on D2).

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

uninformed opinion: nich is weird

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

He smells bad too

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@ #HBC | Nabe , who do you want to lynch?

@ frozenmarsh751 , same question?


Idk why people like fromarsh more than Gorf- what am I missing?

Also, I need to re-read the Jake side of the Jake-J interaction, b/c I don't understand why people are clearing Jake-Nabe off of it. Yeah, it was weird and forced, but does that make the slot town? If you were J and you got partnered with a total newbie, how would you handle it?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@ Fandangox : If you had to shoot one player right now, who would it be?

@ Dabuz : same question.

 

[Fandangox]

It's more that after Garg, I've been pretty busy in real life. That combined with the fact that most of the slots here were either obvious town or replacing out/inactive meant that I had very little motivation to analyze the game. However, what I'm wondering is why you have my inactivity as scummy, and yet you have Nabe's inactivity as completely null. True, I haven't been the most active on D2, but I've at least posted..

Cause Nabe literally has nothing to be scumread or townread for, he hasn't posted anything yet. Inactivity=/=scummy, its what you do with that activity whats important, I am saying your inactivity looks scummy to me cause I don't remember anything substantial you did after your Garg case. Gorf insists I am wrong on that, and granted, I haven't re-read since my initial catch up, but honestly I don't really remember anything of note you did except talk with July and call out J on something he said about Honk. I am gonna take a rain-check on that re-read cause I am not gonna do it tonight. Maybe tomorrow.

Also, I need to re-read the Jake side of the Jake-J interaction, b/c I don't understand why people are clearing Jake-Nabe off of it. Yeah, it was weird and forced, but does that make the slot town? If you were J and you got partnered with a total newbie, how would you handle it?

I am not 100% certain on it myself, that's why I asked people who know J's meta better to tell me if that's something J would do. No one has replied yet though.

@ Fandangox : If you had to shoot one player right now, who would it be?

As in a vig shot? Nabe.

 

[rid****ulous]

J will do things people dont expect just to do it as scum. He dayvigged his scummate d1 in inception mafia just to throw people off. You have to base his actions off the context and his flip

 

[Fandangox]

J will do things people dont expect just to do it as scum. He dayvigged his scummate d1 in inception mafia just to throw people off. You have to base his actions off the context and his flip

Well I mean you do have to do that in any situation, but knowing if it is something J would be used to do is part of the context seems it gives me a new perspective.

 

[Dabuz]

Spoiler

FINAL Votecount 1.14

frozenmarsh751
July
Gorf
Kary: J
Honk:
Rid****ulous
Nicholas1024
Gheb_01: Badwolf
J: Kary, Gheb
BadWolf*
Gargaglione: Rid****ulous, Nicholas1024, July, FrozenMarsh751, Honk, Gorf, Gargalione
Nabe: Red Ryu
Red Ruy*

Not voting:
Nabe


FINAL Votecount 2.5
frozenmarsh751:
Gorf
Kary
Soup
Rid****ulous:
Nicholas1024
Gheb_01
J: Soup, Frozenmarsh751, Gorf, Rid****ulous, Nicholas1024, Dabuz
Dabuz: J
Nabe
Fandangox

Not voting:
Kary, Gheb, Nabe, Fandangox

Interesting things to note:


Kary was on neither lynch (although she was basically on Garg's lynch considering Garg self hammered). However in and after 572 + 612, Kary was pressuring J because Kary was scum reading J, D2 Kary was pushing J but didn't vote because she didn't want to end the day early which is entirely understandable. Then there is the fact that J was voting KARY AND TRYING TO PUSH KARY'S LYNCH D1, considering J did the same D2 to me and i'm town, I think this is telling of Kary town.


Gheb was not on either lynch in spite of supporting both lynches. D1 IIRC he was pretty much fine with 4 different lynches? D2 he wanted J dead, so why not vote J?

Spoiler

All thinks considered, J does need to die. The info we gain from his flip alone is probably more useful than his presence, if not his doc ability too.

Just an example of his wanting J dead on D2, he never voted J however he never pushed anywhere but J so I'm not sure if he is scum trying to not bus his own partner with votes (although no counterpush means at best he was hoping another push would be available), or just townie who didn't want the day to end? However then I see this post which answers my question:

I can see where people are coming from about ending D2 soon but I really don't wanna give Nabe an excuse to keep up this stalling. That slot needs to suffer.

Now Gheb would probably be a town lean, but something that's bothering me is his 520 vote of Kary under the reasons that compared to Garg and Nabe, Kary gives the most connections. This comes right after a vote on Garg which snowballs into Nich's Garg case and in general the wagon looking a real possibility so scumGheb might have been trying to distract from a Garg wagon. However then i'm also torn because once the Kary wagon doesn't go through, he returns and votes J trying to push that wagon is seems. (Although not nearly as hard as Kary's). So IDK, Gheb i'm conflicted on and need to think about more.

J was on neither lynch (duh).

Fandango/ RR were not on either lynch, I don't remember much content coming from Fandango D2 and remember D1 RR playing to his meta which is null. I do know he had a slight push on J, but so did everyone D2, so meh

Nabe was on neither lynch. This slot also hasn't even tried to hide the fact he isn't providing content or making stances, reminds me of Luigi's mansion scum play.


Right now i'd pin Nabe most likely scum.

Fandango is next in line but he's more or less a null i'm not comfortable with due to low content.

Gheb is right after Fandango and might be higher priority but I need to think on this.

FM is null to me but it seems everyone else has him townie. I would like to know what town tells or posts FM has that make him read as townie since well, I just see a null. Seriously, someone bring up quotes or something to show the town read.

Everyone else falls somewhere between town lean and town read.

It's awesome we caught 2 scum but I feel catching the third scum is just hoping for the best by lynching nulls/ replacement slots because of not much content. :L


@ #HBC | Kary : Not answering your question.


The case on me regarding my Marshy vote is stupid BTW. Rid*** is claiming I had a "case" on Marshy about him not answering a question, when I never claimed to have anything but a null on him, but I did want an answer because he's null. I don't see why Marshy needed to purposefully avoid the question and that's annoying, me being annoyed + wanting an answer = vote. In retrospect I can see why it's bad play but it's being misinterpreted so hard. I forget if it was Soup or Rid*** who said I was trying to divert from a J lynch, and that's just stupid. My first set of posts were a summarized wall of why I think j is scum with a vote, my "case" on Marshy doesn't exist because I never made a case on anyone but J, if I wanted to try and divert a lynch, I'd come in with a scum read that isn't J instead of pushing the slot. However, I am still fine with my lynch because i'm understandably a null slot. I came into a game with little need for more content to be provided at the time and not much content left to evaluate so I can't blame town for seeing me as a null worth lynching but my goal is to find scum and I will try to until i'm dead.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@ Dabuz

The Garg lynch happened super fast, at a time I'm generally not on and was hammered by Garg himself.
Literally EVERYBODY was behind lynching J yesterDay and everybody would have voted him. I don't see how or why it matters to you who actually got to vote him in the end.

IR: IR is who I think is most likely to be scum. His only push has been Honk early D1 and while he has been posting without having to be prompted to do so, he has been more of a background player after he stated he didn't see Honk's lynch happening D1. He voted Kary and Garg, but didn't really push them much. He previously stated dislike for those slots before voting them, so at least it is consistent. But his reason for voting these slots were very vague and just stating he would think the flips would be beneficial.

What about that is scummy?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

vote fandangox

 

[rid****ulous]

@ Dabuz
What happened to the scumread you had on fromarsh? You had your vote on him all day yesterday.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

What happened was it was a lousy pressure vote that got (understandably) misconstrued by town. The last paragraph explains it in full, I know you skimmed that post hardcore but you gotta look for key words when you're skimming mang

 

[rid****ulous]

Why wait until today to address it?

 

[Dabuz]

Why wait until today to address it?

No reason to address it yesterDay when that would have distracted from a J lynch.

 

[frozenmarsh751]

sup *******

anyone who doesn't realize we're town by now is so scrub it hurts

like goddamn look at our paper trail, scum so ****in hardbodied

so basically we should kill any of the people who didn't vote yesterday, except your can swap Gheb out for dabuz

TODAYS LYNCH POOL:

Dabuz
NabeKary
Fandangox

Town reads in order of strength of read:

Nicholas1024
Rid****ulousGorf
Gheb_01

gotta chat with the other head to decide who we wanna hardbody first doe

 

[frozenmarsh751]

**** you formatting

TODAYS LYNCH POOL:

Dabuz
Nabe
Kary
Fandangox

Town reads in order of strength of read:

Nicholas1024
Rid****ulous
Gorf
Gheb_01

 

[rid****ulous]

No reason to address it yesterDay when that would have distracted from a J lynch.

Really? Is that why you completely disappeared from the thread for most of the day?

 

[Dabuz]

Really? Is that why you completely disappeared from the thread for most of the day?

If by disappeared, you mean not post for 2 days/ 70 posts, then yes. Do you ask because you don't believe my reasoning?

 

[rid****ulous]

I'm saying that everything about that "push" was scummy. Fromar was in no danger of being lynched in place of J so why not explore that avenue?

 

[Dabuz]

"Hey guys, I don't read FM as scummy but I want to look him because he's a null and the answer to my question may or may not say anything about his alignment."

"OMG DABUZ SO SCUMMY HIS PUSH IS BAD AND WE TOWN READ FM SO DABUZ MUST BE SCUM TRYING TO DISTRACT FROM J LYNCH TERRIBLY"

meanwhile in FM land...

*Posts more wonder woman deflection GIFs*

And i'm too lazy to read the first 10 pages + reread the next few just because a slot is null. There was also a nice wagon on a slot who I think is scummy and would love to see flip to get better reads so it's like, i'm not going to accomplish anything helpful to town in that scenario by posting.

 

[rid****ulous]

If it helps you, and you are town, and we were doing nothing but waiting to see if anyone was gonna do anything else (mainly you fand and nabe)
Why not post it?

Also I personally thought that your reaction to doing something that was null for marshy (ignoring a question) was the bad/scummy thing. You implied you thought his slot scum for what he was doing.

 

[Dabuz]

I'm not sure what you want me to say, I already explained why I did what I did. Posting my defense was pointless yesterDay and I felt like saying more on Marshy not answering could easily give me no read and would distract from a J lynch. I wasn't going to read back on a null so like, what else is there?

 

[rid****ulous]

Well I think it's scummy, and I already explained why. You made push on fromarsh, waited for somebody to agree, got nothing, so stayed silent. Now you just maintain that he's still null. That doesn't concern you? You refuse to go back and reread a null slot, on D3? How is that acceptable? You gotta get rid of those null reads, at this point. We've even got 2 scum lynches for you to work with. You're keeping a low profile.

You're doing the same thing with Nabe right now. You think he's scum? Do something about it.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Honestly, Riddick, reading back, can you not see that being a pressure vote on fromar out of frustration? I might have jumped the gun by saying that that's where he wanted to lynch, and honestly it's not pressure if you say it's pressure (even though he went at it in a wrong way, but wrong =/= scummy) so it's not far fetched to see his vote from a townie's POV. Aside from that and the generic read on J (and honestly what can one expect from a replaced slot at that point :/?) the slot hasn't quite been fishy, aside from the ever so obvious **** dabunz. In hindsight I DO like his monster post and it shows that he is objectively looking at the thread (albeit his method is mechanical, it DOES seem like he's keeping an open mind). I am opposed to lynching dabuz before fandango atm.

@ Dabuz why is nabe most likely to you? Is it strictly his lack of vote and refusal to actually play? What about jakestan's play corroborates your read cuz you are selling it to NOBODY that Nabe's play alone is what is scummy, cuz the luigis mansion correlation is false.

 

[Dabuz]

@ #HBC | Gorf Pretty much. I remember in Luigi's this is how he played as my scummate. Jakestan I don't have any comments on besides he said some stuff cause first 10 pages.

@ rid****ulous My motivation this game is low considering how far ahead town is and how many slots I can comfortably read as town. However Rid***, I will go back and read all the posts for my nulls (in a reasonable time frame) if you don't bother me with my vote on FM anymore and don't give me **** for needing motivation to read back.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@ #HBC | Gorf Pretty much. I remember in Luigi's this is how he played as my scummate.

(no, it isn't)