Flavorless Mafia: Game Over. Who won?

[#HBC | Nabe]

My draft is gone
but on the plus side this time it'll be good

 

[Fandangox]

CONTRADICTION FOUND.

LOADING SERVER

Hilariously enough, the server crashed after this post. Either way I was mistaken since J was reffering to Kary's last sentence not Honk's. I am still catching up, I will refrain from saying anything now until I am fully caught up so I can avoid looking like an idiot.

 

[rid****ulous]

My draft is gone
but on the plus side this time it'll be good

:ugh:

 

[rid****ulous]

Unvote

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So I guess we're basically waiting on Nabe, dabuz and Fanny to bring somthing to the table? Somebody tag me if anything imortant comes up.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Tryin to answer this generic 'hurr durr all your reads question' and it's a pain in my ass.

TOWN
Soup is clear.
Nich & Riddic both reading very townie on that Garg flip.
Gheb & Gorf i've been townreading since about page 6 and I don't really have any problems with them.
fromarsh i'm kinda on the fence about. Some of their posts read townie to me and others seem very null. Wouldn't put it past marshy to have messed with the PMs, either.
NOOSE GOES HERE
BW- dabuz - dabuz coming in with a page full of hate for J gives me some confidence, but not sure about him outside of that.
RR-fandango - I wasn't really feeling the early RR hate, but I feel like he dipped without posting any content, either.
Jake-Nabe - I liked Jake's opening post but it's just gone downhill since then. Definitely want more pressure on this slot.
SCUM

still have this itching feeling that i'm wrong about one of my townreads, but I can't put my finger on it, and it might be nothing. It's not worth worrying about til about Day 4 anyways so whatever.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

goddamnit why won't my k-pop music video load

 

[Nicholas1024]

I'll get back into this game tomorrow, Easter stuff and a tournament yesterday have pretty much sucked up all of my time this weekend.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I left my damn computer at my friend's house, so I will be mostly mobile this upcoming week. In short, don't expect monster posts and I'd appreciate a shortage of walls as well

 

[ranmaru]

Votecount 2.3

frozenmarsh751: Dabuz
Gorf
Kary
Soup
Rid****ulous:
Nicholas1024
Gheb_01
J: Soup, Frozenmarsh751, Gorf
Dabuz
Nabe
Fandangox

Not voting:
Kary, Nicholas1024, Rid****ulous, Gheb, J, Nabe, Fandangox

Notes:

*= Currently being replaced
**= V/LA

With 11 players, it takes 6 votes to lynch
The deadline for Day 2 is April 27th, at 11:59 PM.

 

[rid****ulous]

Ok, so after tossing it around with Orbo for a bit, we decided that dabuz stinks, and he's next in line after J.

His case on marshy is reachy as all hell, and reeks of scum trying to make something stick. He threw it out there, and is waiting for somebody to agree with him. He spent a minute trying to push marshy like a good boy, but gave up the push as soon as marshy refused to cooperate. He didn't go back through fromarsh's posts (which he read recently, by the way) and decide, "huh, maybe I was wrong" or "hey, look at this here! this supports my fromarshscum theory!", he just vanished.

He's not even being defensive in a townie sort of way. Marshy's initial suspicion of him was pretty goddamn weak, and really all he did was ask a question. I even gave dabuz an easy out when I said it was probably "just badwolf being badwolf". But instead, he blows it out of proportion, and scumreads fromarsh for it. It reads like scum who is hella nervous about having his slot tossed around as being scummy. He chose to aggressively shut it down by engaging fromarsh in a way he knew would result in marshy being his usual anti-town self.

FoS dabuz
you're next, buddy

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

His vote on Marshy makes no sense and the need to create unwarranted pressure on Frozen dosn't really make sense at all, it looks like a scumlord who kneejerked badly.

Being clear makes the game boring, nobody really needs to read me anymore and I'm just waiting to die now. I can still give out opinions and such but that's abuot it.

 

[frozenmarsh751]

sup bros frozen here

I have finals next week so don't expect to hear a ton from me this day phase

I did just finish rereading though, specifically reviewing scumgarg
I fully endorse marshy's vote on J. J is the best play today IMO

I also think that ridic, inglor, and nich all look much more towny as a result of garg's flip.

If anyone wants more specific explanations lemme know but gtg for now

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Damnit. Alright, I'm carrying the helm of July dying last night. J is scum. I am July's mason partner. There's no reason for me to not out this information right now as I hold no benefit of trying to out-guess scum.

Vote: J

I will be corroborating what me and July were talking about during the night phase, followed by somewhat of a case on J, if needed.

Uhh

Were there any sort of breadcrumbs or hints at this? It's not that I don't believe you based off a read on you, but if you haven't already please elaborate on how your role and her role worked so I can get a clear picture. Are you guys basically just a neighborhood?

HEY GUYS, IT'S EVERYONE'S FAVORITE (ALTHOUGH NOT AT ALL) PLAYER!!!!!! Still figuring out what to make of everything that happened from pages 11 onward...because I skimmed the first 10 pages, but i'd like to start off this day in a fun way.

Vote: J

Seriously, this guy and shouldn't live past toDay.

Spoiler

-443 Not reading that HUMONGOUS wall, someone TL;DR that for me. The point seems to be J is voting July and FOSing GArg
--Note skipping Garg to focus on July
-464 this turn around in tone when responding to Soup is Odd, J just ignroed all rebuttals to ask Soup his direction if J flips town...why ask Soup that?
--J doesn't follow up on this IIRC
-477 Give up post? Basically states her scum read on July was WRONG and wouldn't mind getting lynched to help lead town in the right direction? THat doesn't make sense for town to do, it's a nice AtE for scum though.
-483 Brings up some early RR play to show RR being scummy yet based on J's summary RR would be towny for doing what he did, and "appear to be townie", yet there's no reason what RR would be doign would be just "appearing to be townie" over actually townie.
--484 I feel like the read on RR is completely twisted in meaning and the little nudge towards Garg's wagon hop while skipping over him to vote RR in the next postis really slimy. What was bad about IR saying Honk doesn't have a single post IR that doesn't rub him the wrong way?
-493 Kary push which was also weak (came after FM's push on KAry)
-495 Pushing RR on his early Gorf pressure and calling that pressure scummy? Like really, I don't see scum RR in what's presented and I need to see if J gets anything from asking RR if he reads Gorf as scum.
-501 No solid scum reads, some solid town reads. Red flaaaaaaaag.
-503 Didn't J LIKE jakestan before? Why bring up a dislike now? Ummm, question
-506 Moving onto Gorf null after what rid**** said? J is trying to crowd please this game.
-507 Town reading Garg thinking he's newb town...umm...UMMM
--Super red flag because Garg flipped scum.
-508 What's with the sudden interest on Jakestan? Especially since IIRC the slot called for a replacement by this point? Why is J (at least implied) scum reading the slot now? Very slimy.
-512 Not getting exactly why J dislikes IR? I saw some questions in 510 but nothing that really screams to me as telling.
-513 basically asking July to stop tunneling J?
--Note July was killed despite not being the most obvtown of slots...possible way for scum J to silence her biggest pusher
-526 Kary wagon hop
-544 WHY DOES KARY'S FLIP HELP SOLIDIFY A READ ON FM?!
-545 Armchair critic and calling Gorf vs. RR SvT BUT without saying who is who or saying why.
--Sets up a mislynch, doesn't have to commit to a read and overall doesn't look like scum hunting.
-551 These questions just aren't that...good, thoughtful, doesn't look like J is really trying to read and scum hunt
-554 What's J getting out of this? I swear it looks like questioning stuff for the sake of it.
--I'm not reading the next few posts on these pages cause it looks like the same **** and i'm sure Gorf won't mind telling me what's wrong about J's posts
later on.
-605 Pushing Kary lynch

If anyone wants elaboration on any of these points about how J is scummy please ask because I just copy pasted my notes and cleaned them up a little.

Null on FM, he has some weak pushes and stances, not much else. @ frozenmarsh751 What are your reads? Why did you bring up that one BW post toDay instead of, IDK, near the time he posted it?

Townlean on Gorf, he's been doing stuff this game and it's an easy to follow trail. The only thing that btohers me is that Gorf seemed a little jumpy D1 in that he wentfrom defending Garg (as a null at the time) to trying to connect Garg on a scum flip to Gheb town. He also never had any stroooong stances but his pushes are still good and I can't see him on the same scum team as Garg so townlean. @ #HBC | Gorf Are you familiar with RR's meta?

Kary doesn't have enough content from page 11 onward to make a read. I will say that her opening about avoiding easy to ML players like BW and Soup while not good play, looks like townie intent because basically Kary wants to focus on looking for actual scummy play and not just weaker players playing poorly. As scum it doesn't make sense to limitthe pools of mislynches unless her scum partner is in there (which is a possibility, but less likely with only 1 scum left if Kary is scum). @ #HBC | Kary , have any of the players in your original pool of easy to ML become scum reads to you?

I was going to FOS Soup but then he claimed mason so he's townie unless someone CCs him. IIRC masons are confirmed townies, correct?

Rid*** was the first and hardest pusher of Garg, he'd have to be bussing Garg hardcore to be scum with him, so he's pretty much confirmed town in my book.

Nich helped push the Garg wagon with a case before the Garg wagon had a strong following, townpoints because of that but there isn't much else to say about the slot. @Nich Any thoughts
now that we have 2 flips?

@Gheb You voted Kary in 520, why did you drop that vote later on?

@ #HBC | Nabe gives thoughts on this game, any thoughts really.

RR's slot is null to me because his play has been complete RR meta to me (brash questions early on that only serve to get out of RVS but do it poorly, silly pushes, logic that doesn't make full sense), if it were anyone else I'd probably agree with the scumreads but eh, RR meta is RR meta. Fandango is replacing this slot I think? Would love to seeFandango's full read list.



"Oh ****, Dabuz replaced in BW's slot? Well now I gotta find a reason to dislike this slot by looking at BW's one post decently far back into D1" No but like really, why bring that post up now instead of IDK, around the time it was posted?

Idk if it's **** dabunz speaking but this post alone makes me consider lynching dabunz. His j piece is VERY hollow and that last assertion about fromar seems like some sort of petty crutch to lean on just in case his null read wants to turn into a scum read. **** dabunz.

Vote: J

J is L-1, no more votes unless you want to end the day.

We have more people to hear from before J dies.

This doesn't help either.

Vote: Frozenmarsh751

You're not avoiding my questions, specifically bringing up an olllld post the way you did.





You -could- look at Kary's intent that way, but as scum, really? I mean hell, as scum i'd personally loooooove to leave BW on the lynch table because he's such an easy ML to justify (no offense BW) Same with you because you get emotional in a bad way as town (flashbacks to FE:A), and then I forget who the last player in Kary's no lynch pool was...probs Jakestan the new guy? It's not like Kary saying that even accomplishes proactivity, in fact it's kind of the opposite because it's ignoring certain players. It doesn't even serve as fluff because it's making a claim and now Kary has to play with that claim in mind. So no, I don't think it serves to either provide fluff or look proactive.

Her post 652 was a hammer on Garg in spirit, IIRC was something along the lines of she is going to lynch later but there was still time for discussion in the day...then Garg self hammered as scum. *Sees you quoted that post* Yeah, it pretty much was a hammer on Garg because it's obvious Kary was going to hammer the slot. I think the more important thing is that Kary was fascinated with J yesterDay and didn't mention Garg until that 652, but with how little content Kary provided it's not like conclusions can be drawn yet besides the slot not wanting to commit to stances. I want to see more of her opinions toDay since she seems hard set on J (isn't everybody at this point?) but that's it.

WHADDAYA KNOW DABUZ SEEMS LIKE HE CHANGED HIS MIND!

Yea I like what town's doing, you're making me happy

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Were there any sort of breadcrumbs or hints at this? It's not that I don't believe you based off a read on you, but if you haven't already please elaborate on how your role and her role worked so I can get a clear picture. Are you guys basically just a neighborhood?

We're both just both vanilla town masons, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

EBWOP: It wasn't a neighborhood, and we had a QT from the very start of the game. We were confirmed to be aligned.

 

[rid****ulous]

Hey Frozen can you go into that gheb read a tad? Preciated

 

[frozenmarsh751]

Hey Frozen can you go into that gheb read a tad? Preciated

Alright so as you should know I've been thinkin we have scum between Honk and Inglor. Now with Honk claiming to be july's mason partner and garg treatment of inglor in general, I'm thinking theyre both town

Basically when I went through all of gargs posts he seemed to be legitimately trying to engage Inglor when they clashed. I know that's incredibly vague, so let me explain a bit. What I mean is that their interactions didn't seem scripted at all. They had an organic feel to them that is making me conclude that those two were absolutely not ever on the same page in terms of predictive knowledge relative to the other, which is a "not aligned" tell IMO.

An example of what I'm trying to get at is when Garg told Gheb by EBWOP that he [Gheb] should disregard Garg's most recent post that he [Garg] wrote in response to a post of Gheb's because he [Garg] posted it before he finished reading the thread entirely. Who writes a premature post in response to another player and then retracts it after realizing it was a kneejerk response unsupported by what was actually happening in the thread, when that player is your ****ing scum partner?

Is it beyond gheb and garg to fake something like that? Absolutely not. Do I think that's what actually happened? Absolutely not.

Not trying to say this clears Inglor at all, but that slot is off the table right now as far as plays go IMO

 

[#HBC | J]

Sorry guys, since it was easter weekend and I got my promotion at work accelerated too I have gotten a lot busier. Especially because I am working every day this week now from open to close. I won't have much time to post which is really lame. I will pretty much be down to one post a day/one hour of talking to others in live-update.

I am the doc, I protected FroMarsh last night because FrozenFlame was in the hydra+read marshy as town D1. My play has been abyssmal but people have to look more for PR tells>scum-tells.

Since Soup claimed mason, I will protect him toNight. I am here for a bit so if you need me, quote this post.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Unsure how to take J's doc claim, if we do take another direction I would advise Dabuz/Kary. I'll sit and think on it. I don't want to unvote quite yet but some actions J has made make more sense to me in the perspective of him being the doc, such as him slightly crumbing that he was going to claim and then we would lynch Kary, but in that same way..why give up then before J? You also stated that we could just lynch like you like that. Was that just an appeal and try to throw off the trail that you weren't important?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm fairly confident if J is actually what he says, @dabuz was just trying to spin a poorly executed reason to be on the wagon, but then realized he had to try and stay somewhat proactive and made a meager attempt to pressure FroMarsh, which still doesn't make sense for me to do so, not only in the same light I've covered but also the fact FroMarsh has been pretty that he wanted J dead, and it seemed like Dabuz was on the same agenda too; Gorf put it best in his #734.

 

[rid****ulous]

Need to discuss this claim with joker.

 

[rid****ulous]

Nah **** that, J is still dying, I don't buy the doc claim for a ****in second. D1 he was willing to give himself up for dead, where was this claim then? This is the act of a desperate man, and I aint buyin' the bull**** he's selling. This just makes me want to lynch him more.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

... I hate Doc claims.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

J's claimed doc before as scum but @Riddick do you agree with me on my sentiment of Dabunz if he is scum? Kary?

 

[ranmaru]

I also want to mention that I'll be having finals this week and next week as well. So I'll be trying my best to stay up to date.

 

[rid****ulous]

Wait, what? Dabuz is scummy, independent of J's flip. What he did actually makes a lot more sense as J's scummate, because if J was town, he would've been totes happy to sit on the J wagon, and not bother making that reachy play against fromarsh.

I wouldn't worry about J's claim guys, it's so ****ty. He protected fromarsh? Why? It sounds to me like he's just defaulting to a bull**** "Yea, I protected the veteran player guise" because it's believable. He could have, and should have, protected July, myself, or Nich, but July died. Now he's telling us who he's gonna protect tonight, and it's soup? Wtf kind of doc claims who he's gonna protect tonight? This whole claim was so hastily thrown together, it disgusts me. It belongs in the trash.

Vote: J

 

[#HBC | J]

Nah **** that, J is still dying, I don't buy the doc claim for a ****in second. D1 he was willing to give himself up for dead, where was this claim then? This is the act of a desperate man, and I aint buyin' the bull**** he's selling. This just makes me want to lynch him more.

Have you ever heard of an AtE ploy? Did it get pressure off me without claiming? Yes should be the answer to both.

 

[#HBC | J]

I am also bitter at this because the reasons I justified for FroMarsh protect were real, I still was going back and forth on July/FroMarsh for my protect. Seems I chose wrong as has been the pattern this game.

Ridick, you are tunneling me especially with your last post on who I should have protected. Usually when I am a doc/protector of some sort, I choose marshy because he is one of the few players I have faith in. Look at Sephiroth Mafia for an example. Also I would never have protected your slot, sorry.

Of course I am claiming who I am going to protect toNight, my protect, due to my play, is subject to town. Soup claimed TOWN MASON which is a cleared role due to July's flip, who should I protect other then a townie who is cleared by results and someone I had as a town-read yesterDay? You are reaching for a reason to call me scum after my claim because you want to choose not to believe it when the facts presented are not what you want to believe.

 

[#HBC | J]

This post is why Soup has gotten better as a player:

Unsure how to take J's doc claim, if we do take another direction I would advise Dabuz/Kary. I'll sit and think on it. I don't want to unvote quite yet but some actions J has made make more sense to me in the perspective of him being the doc, such as him slightly crumbing that he was going to claim and then we would lynch Kary, but in that same way..why give up then before J? You also stated that we could just lynch like you like that. Was that just an appeal and try to throw off the trail that you weren't important?

Bingo, name-o. I hate playing PR because you have to walk a line to be not NK'd but also try and not show you are important. I do weird things, Kittens vs. Domos would be a game I relate to being semi-similar in denying I have a PR to live/come out on top.

I want one of Dabuz/Fanny*Since Fanny replaced Ruy* toDay, personally. Mainly Dabuz because of his god-awful reach on me/FroMarsh.

Vote: Dabuz

I have some re-read notes during the night after GargScum flip and July/HonkTown. I may have time to post them later.

 

[#HBC | J]

Nah **** that, J is still dying, I don't buy the doc claim for a ****in second. D1 he was willing to give himself up for dead, where was this claim then? This is the act of a desperate man, and I aint buyin' the bull**** he's selling. This just makes me want to lynch him more.

Not really being desperate here. Mainly claiming because I am at L-1 and that is protocol when people are already saying "Just lynch J after X, Y, Z talk". I won't be here much of this day-phase so if I am lynched you guys will have the info that I am the doc so you guys can discuss the rest of the day with this angle in mind. Consider this Ridick, look at my play through a PR angle rather than a scum-angle, does it make more sense? I know it will be hard to get out of the tunnel mindset since you have been on m since yesterDay but for the game's sake, look at it a diffferent way.

 

[rid****ulous]

This is not tunneling, this is simply "me not buying your fake claim".

Gimme one good reason outside of "I'm the doc" that I should let you live? This doesn't erase all the scummy **** you've done.

"being doc" doesn't give you a free pass for your bad townread on jakestan

"being doc" doesn't make your back and forth with July look better

"being doc" doesn't explain away the convenient flip flopping on your Garg read

"being doc" doesn't justify the way you've played this game.

I'll take my chances without a doc, your slot needs to die.

 

[#HBC | J]

Am I saying any of those? No. If it helps you, continue to look at me. But don't let your ignorance hinder the rest of the game.

But I can quick-hit your points:

1.) People are wrong on town-reads, did you read later on when I re-evaluated? You say it's "bad" but that's mainly because you disagreed at the time.
2.) Okay?
3.) Convenient? That's a stretch to call it that. Especially because in the end I was adamantly defending Garg as a noobyTown read.
4.) It semi-justifies this. I know I haven't played the best, but it does justify a bit of my play.

I'll take my chances without a doc, your slot needs to die.

This, right here, is why I would never protect a slot such as yours. It shows you do not have the humility to admit you are wrong on a slot and push past it. This attitude loses games for towns 10/10 times due to arbitrary stubbornness.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I think you should at least consider the idea that you could be wrong. I'm doing a re-read right now because I definitely wouldn't want to lose a doctor let alone be so stubborn that I can't consider an alternative. J's actions aren't very indicative of either alignment here because he is put in a position where he could possibly be lynched, and that's something both town and scum will fight. I'm interested in your notes J, I'll be asking questions of myself and maybe looking more into Garg. If there's something I stay very weary about it's that Garg was very touchy-feely around his read of you, highlighted here:

and J has gotten a lot of negative attention because of the buddying up of JS, which I agree is odd, but a lot of people claim that to be a way he plays, so I'm gonna wait to formulate more on him.

This isn't anything you can answer yourself but I just want to throw it out there. This day will end up to be scarcely useless if J is actually town, and even if he's scum, lynching him blindly without squeezing information out of him isn't gonna help either.

 

[#HBC | J]

Whoa, wait a second, this is ORBO posting?

@ rid****ulous can you clarify this?

 

[#HBC | J]

I hate trying to read hydras, but wow if Orbo is doing the posting now, I am at a lose for words because I have never seen him play with any aggro, but PBJ I have seen play with aggro. Ow...head hurts.

Soup, I can't really answer why Garg would hold me at arm's length besides the fact that maybe he saw me as a power player since I have been here for a while. Other than that, beats me. I will get my notes out maybe tonight/tomorrow.

 

[rid****ulous]

Am I saying any of those? No. If it helps you, continue to look at me. But don't let your ignorance hinder the rest of the game.

But I can quick-hit your points:

1.) People are wrong on town-reads, did you read later on when I re-evaluated? You say it's "bad" but that's mainly because you disagreed at the time.
2.) Okay?
3.) Convenient? That's a stretch to call it that. Especially because in the end I was adamantly defending Garg as a noobyTown read.
4.) It semi-justifies this. I know I haven't played the best, but it does justify a bit of my play.



This, right here, is why I would never protect a slot such as yours. It shows you do not have the humility to admit you are wrong on a slot and push past it. This attitude loses games for towns 10/10 times due to arbitrary stubbornness.

Nah man, I don't need to "have humility" here because I'm not wrong, not because I lack the capacity. I'm not allowing your slot to live, it's as simple as that. Just because you're not saying the words "this justifies all the bad things I've done!" doesn't mean it's not what you're saying. I'm not being stubborn, I'm just making what I think is the right play. Your claim doesn't make you as valuable to me as you might like.

You were right yesterday, your slot is a distraction. I let you live then because I wanted Garg dead more, but now that Garg has flipped scum, you look worse than ever, and I'm happy to remove you from the game. You still haven't given me a reason outside of "because I'm the doc" that I should let you live. Your doc claim is the only redeemable thing about your slot. Conveniently, it's not verifiable. It's such a scummy claim, in and of itself. It does nothing but serve to save your life.

Your lynch provides useful info. It's a hell of a lot more useful than dabuz or Kary right now. In fact, if you somehow flip town, I daresay it looks pretty bad for Kary! With you alive, I see no compelling reason to lynch Kary, because you're a much better option.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I really wish more people would be dissecting Garg's flip instead of just going 'alright let's just lynch J'.

For example, I wanted to note that Ryu and BW are nulls because inactivity =/= scummy. I wanted to note that J isn't a good lynch yet because I don't think the buddy thing is immediately scummy. I don't know what to think of Kary's play but it's odd and definitely worth looking into. And lastly, Gorf is genuinely just null to me right now.

The difference of opinion here interests me, Garg boldly states that Kary is worth looking into it but again, he plays with his read on J, he doesn't explicitly state it either way and the 'isn't a good lynch yet' is far more indicative. I also want to note that Garg felt JS was null-town too, and hardly did much with that slot at all.

J, do you still think Kary could be scum?

 

[rid****ulous]

soup, Garg's flip is a huge part of why I want J dead today.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I know man. He's at L-1. You don't have to remind him that he's going to die, it's not like his claim just made everything better, but I'm reading through the thread at the moment and considering alternatives and actually looking into garg a bit more.