Flavorless Mafia: Game Over. Who won?

[rid****ulous]

@Gorf: I'm on J, I switched my vote after red**** asked me if I would be willing to support a J lynch and I said yes.

Also I just noticed the formatting of my #469 got messed up, there is even more back and forth between J and I in that final quote in my post.

just wanted to mention, I didn't ask you that.

 

[#HBC | J]

J if you are town (which that response is making me think) you are a total flamer. Go ahead and re evaluate but that is a really peculiar way of going about admitting you were wrong to say the least.

I'll take the hit, just give me a bit to read some things again.

By flamer, you mean incredibly gay, correct? I can't tell anymore and you've said it a bit this game.

 

[#HBC | J]

Even if this is RVS

What does this vote do for you?

Vote: Gorf

Over connecting yourself to other players?

Answer my question

Ruy why are you even saying the things you're saying. What the hell do you expect to find out about me voting NL? What the hell do you expect to find from asking ******* who BWolfs mate is? Your Garg question is fine but that's why you need to shut the **** up, cuz you're clogging the thread and will surely continue if not stopped, regardless of alignment.

Hey @July wanna be friends?

Getting people out of RvS and getting this rolling.

Why vote No lynch?

Why did Garg change votes?

How legit is Gheb being and is something fruitful gonna happen there?

Let's get rolling.

The combination of these posts so close together puts me at pause. Ruy skips the RVS and goes straight into seriousness with his vote and questions Gorf's NL vote. Gorf asks what he expects to get out of the NL questioning and Ruy just backs out saying that he is trying to get RVS rolling, but instead of dropping it continues to push it as serious. The tone of these posts seem off to me and also forced as trying to generate discussion to seem towny. Everyone was focusing on the Kary situation at the time and this pretty much got left in the dust.

*Hind-sight J*

What I should have done instead of talk about Kary: Push this avenue more.

 

[#HBC | J]

Pg. 3

Ruy and kary has scum, maybe both

Ruy's characteristic scum meta comes to mind when I see him posting, asking questons that he won't follow up on that go nowhere as a means to look town

Kar is too centralized on his own image, not willing to take risks and not willing to get his feet wet, instead of contesting me when I called him out on his play, he only asserted his point as a means to appeal to me; his fos on gorf makes no sense and he hasn't bothered to explain it

Gorf is acting like gorf, and unless somene can tell me why its scum gorf, I do not care about him at all

Looking at this post from Honk. I actually am finding myself really agreeing to the logic found in here. Mainly the fact of Ruy or Kary being scum. The thing that stops me on Kary is the fact that Kary is very weird for me and I have trouble pinpointing him every game we play. So far from re-reading D1, this is the post I like the most. Gorf was justified in what he was saying regardless of alignment, but I still have a gut hard-on town-read on his slot. (biases from actually being further in the game) Still the fact that IR comes in and says that this slot does not have a "single" post that doesn't rub him the wrong way is not sitting well with me.

The hell?

Where do you see me acting like this and what exactly stuck out as this being definitive?

You should care about Gorf, if he plays deliberately anti-town/unhelpful he is a great D1 lynch. Don't care if it matches his meta.

Bolded I really do not like this. Ruy is not looking for scum actions, but anti-town/unhelpful reasons as to why to lynch people (namely Gorf in this situation). Why is he making it a point to look for anti-town/unhelpful>scummy for D1? Policies like this annoy me because it's just like lynching an inactive D1 and people hiding behind that to garner a lynch.

Vote: Honk

Garg literally was just a hop-on vote after Gheb/Gorf voted. -points for Garg.

*side-bar*

Soups' antagonising of Gheb is still horrible regardless of alignment. It was just uncouth and childish. Even if he don't like how someone plays in a game, at least show common courtesy.

 

[#HBC | J]

Unvote
Vote: Red Ryu

For now, I am still reading, but that's where I want my vote while I continue looking at things.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

J, I gotta go to bed now and I mean this @ヽ(*・ω・)ﾉ♪ as well.

I get why you guys are looking at me, stop and look at why I did what I did, this is something Soup for some odd reason refuses to address me on and I keep asking him to look at me in the face on this.

Are my questions well founded and valid at that point. No ****ing way they are, they are ****ing useless at this point.

My intent was not to make an incriminating case and say haha caught you scum.

My intent was to jump start town and get the game going, not to blend and pose bogus questions to hide myself. I don't give a **** if you guys have a problem with me there, because you guys are not looking at it at all right.

I'm was never trying to fake ****.

I got a PM/Melee/Brawl/Cactaur Pancake tournament tomorrow so I'm going to bed.

I never tried to force **** like this and I am sick of a a uselss ok to vig slot like Gorf saying I am scummy without giving a damn reason why and trying to keep his head as low as possible. Honk who I am damn sure is town at this point and people jumped on Soup for ****ty reasons and J who I am more likely to side with being scum right now. J's initial town read of JS really did rub me the wrong way, but I wasn't sure which way to lean on it since J will do this but the timing on a reread doesn't look right at all.

I'm waiting on Nabe at this point, This is really were if I decide to vote on J or not. idk if J is town or not but I am damn sure a town read on Jake as no where near anyways close to warranted this game.

 

[frozenmarsh751]

i kind of want to just body karebear and call it a day

 

[#HBC | J]

The thing that keeps me is that you keep saying Gorf is an "okay to vig slot" but why? I see no indication of this ever being this case or where he would be this game, or even if we were to go outside this game he isn't in the category of that.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Unvote

Hey Nabe, I know your busy but I do want your input from as little as you have read, if not skimmed.

I still want your slot dead, but I wanna see more into your head here and you are here now.

Can you be a bro to me and help me out?

 

[#HBC | J]

So yeah, I think this is classic town-Soup at the moment.

Quick hit: How do you know Soup's meta if I may ask? Last I remember, I don't recall you playing with Soup in the past.

 

[rid****ulous]

i kind of want to just body karebear and call it a day

that literally sounds like the worst option on the table. I'm not saying I townread Kary, but on what planet is he a better lynch than Garg?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The thing that keeps me is that you keep saying Gorf is an "okay to vig slot" but why? I see no indication of this ever being this case or where he would be this game, or even if we were to go outside this game he isn't in the category of that.

Seriously read what he has done this game, if he tried to push someone outside of semi Honk he explained it, though briefly, why he wanted the slot dead. He hasn't tried to advance town, hint why I voted him first and chose him to start the game off.

Voting No Lynch doesn't do town ****.

You''re not trying to advance town, you're not trying to make anything happen. So he was doing it for ****s and giggles, or he is scum. That is why I chose him he did something that has a clear town or scum situation.

Past that he has done more, I'll give him that. But overall I can't really pass him at best of null at worst scum-lean. He's not actively trying to get **** done he's here putting his vote where he pleases without accountability.

I'm just as guilty for not putting a vote down, I freely admit this. Though I will saw with full ATE mode on, I've been practicing Smash and working on school. I've been trying to get good at Melee and Brawl more than ever on limited sleep and a lot of school work shoved at me. I get why people have been looking at me, I don't blame them at all.

Looking here though, Gorf though. He has been here, but when he has been here what has he done? It's more blank than people than people really should remember. He really has not done a whole lot and that worries me.

 

[#HBC | J]

If I may, Kary is not a bad lynch. He has kind of disappeared during the time the pressure began to mount up on me and Garg and hide in the background to inactivity land. He still has a lot to answer regarding slots questioning him and his early D1 play is sketch as hell upon re-read.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

i kind of want to just body karebear and call it a day

Ya know, I kind of care about the Kary slot, but of the lynches possible I see him as a bad option.

Why him atm?

I do see reasons to dislike him but I see him being more valuable and also not really that scummy.

 

[#HBC | J]

Gorfdammit Ruy.

Stop. I seriously want to have a scum-read on someone, but emotion ****s me up beyond believe and I like your honesty in your last post. I will adamantly disagree with you on Gorf not doing anything, but the rest of your reasoning makes sense from your perspective. I just simply disagree with you that voting NL = reasons for lynching. It feels like you are tunneling on the slot with that as your main proponent and trying to throw things that stick to Gorf being scum. Do you still feel Gorf is scum to you?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Ok I am seriously going back to V/LA status.

Bye.

 

[#HBC | J]

Ok I am seriously going back to V/LA status.

Bye.

Just one last thing, please.

GorfScum, y/n? Further explanation can wait till you come back.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Gorfdammit Ruy.

Stop. I seriously want to have a scum-read on someone, but emotion ****s me up beyond believe and I like your honesty in your last post. I will adamantly disagree with you on Gorf not doing anything, but the rest of your reasoning makes sense from your perspective. I just simply disagree with you that voting NL = reasons for lynching. It feels like you are tunneling on the slot with that as your main proponent and trying to throw things that stick to Gorf being scum. Do you still feel Gorf is scum to you?

Responding to this first.

No it is not a reason to lynch, it is a reason to investigate. You get me here?

I'm not saying Gorf auto scum, I used it to jump start the game with no real leads and get stuff going. But since then he has not made me feel good about how he has played this game, he is not my immediate scum pick, I wants Jake's slot more than anyone's right now, if not yours, but ugg. Outside of Jake I'm not as sure. He was the only slot I felt like was not doing anything but appeasement and laying to the crowd while doing nothing in return.

Back to Gorf, yes I think he is scummy right now I an trying to weigh in on him Garg and you right now. As it stands, there are a lot of players I feel like are doing nothing on the sidelines, Gorf Garg JS, players who are throwing out reads for reasons I got no clue, J Gorf IR JS, and reads that I feel like are purposelu trying not to step on anyones toes, JS Kary.

As it stands I got a pool but right now I am trying to decipher it and figure it out, I'm going to bed for reals now.

See ya and have a good weekend.

 

[rid****ulous]

To be fair to Ryu, this post

Awe **** ebwop

Vote: J

Mostly cuz I feel like giving her a temporary double vote till I catch up.

rubbed me all kinds of wrong ways.

July slam dunks the **** out of J, then Gorf hops in and votes alongside her.

pretty smooth wagon hop, wouldn't ya say?

It's hardly enough to incriminate Gorf, but I can see where Ryu is coming from. A lot of Gorf's play has shades of this.

 

[rid****ulous]

I am glad we're talking about Ryu tho, his slot has been **** all null to me all game.

 

[#HBC | J]

Maybe I am being a little blinded, but Gorf has not really had a scummy post to me. When he posts, I just fail to see the scum-intent. The thing that has struck the oddest of chords with me is his switch from me to July in the beginning of buddying and the ease I had getting his vote back on me. Though, looking back at my posts, July did have merit in what she has said. I feel I am leaning more to a list of town-reads of people I don't want to die and a list of people I could see dying toDay, but I am having a hard time grasping like "definitely scum" here.

I just have a lot of "I don't want this slot to die" now reads.

 

[rid****ulous]

Gorf is not in a "definitely scummy" pile at all. The biggest problem I have with him is that he's in a the "hard to pin down" pile, and I feel like that's where he wants to be. What sucks is that he strikes me as someone who probably wants to be in that pile, no matter what his alignment is.

 

[#HBC | J]

caught up on the thread will post soon

I like Gheb's vote on Honk #235 ; even worse (for honk) is #241. It bleeds out scum to me. from experience players who belittle their opponent in response to claims that they are scum are generally scum or terribly bad at the game. lots of ad-hominem and over-aggressive play feels very scummy and I feel there is a significant chance the slot is scum.

Hate this post by JS. He is using just over-generalized "scum-tells" that could be thrown at anyone. Also the more I like Honk, the more I dislike IR.

 

[#HBC | J]

Gorf is not in a "definitely scummy" pile at all. The biggest problem I have with him is that he's in a the "hard to pin down" pile, and I feel like that's where he wants to be. What sucks is that he strikes me as someone who probably wants to be in that pile, no matter what his alignment is.

Oh, so he is more in the "indy pile vibe" for you then if you get my drift? If you need an explanation, let me know.

 

[rid****ulous]

Oh, so he is more in the "indy pile vibe" for you then if you get my drift? If you need an explanation, let me know.

that's probably a good way to describe it.

 

[#HBC | J]

Ya know, with what Ridick is saying, the more I realize Gorf's play is incredibly safe. Moreso when I got to this post which includes a post by Honk that made me here a bell: Click here.

I just can't fault him for it. He kind of is the pusher of the Honk wagon/cheerleader, but he didn't start the push/case on Honk. He is a minor version of that too whenever July posts. I'll think on Gorf more, probably a read I'll sleep on tonight.

 

[#HBC | J]

My gut tells me Garg isn't scum. My gut tells me to stick with his early play during D1 and the way he was looking for scum and trying to generate discussion for town besides his wagon hoppy votes. Re-reading the Ridick vs. Garg, I lean TvT where Garg(a newer player) got into a bad debate and lost it hard. His read post comes off as genuine, but holds nothing really interesting besides his FroMarsh read. A contradiction I found with PBJ's case on Garg is that Garg had voted Honk prior and was a part of the original wagon, it seems more likely Garg re-read, saw that he voted for Honk and was reminded of finding him originally scummy since he was a part of the original push. Seems more like newbie-town not having knowing how to deal with pressure. Anyone with meta on Garg can correct me, but I do not remember him ever being a focal point of a lynch in previous games.

Not okay with a Garg lynch as of pg. 8.

 

[#HBC | J]

lol frozen how the **** am I supposed to ****ing follow that **** "**** this and **** that too" is what your post is

@Kary
Reading Gheb as town right now; the slot seems legit

@J
A rid**** / Honk scum team? I think it's way too early in the game to suspect scum buddies... on what basis do you think they're likely scum buddies?

Not too sure how I feel about rid**** tho his pushing on Garg feels like grasping and i'm more interested in seeing what he has to say about other players

reading Garg and Kary both town right now

I must have been on crack for town-reading this slot and putting him in the back of my mind. His justifications for reads are horrendous. "This slot seems legit" = town-read? Garg and Kary are both town? How and what makes you feel this *mainly about Kary*?

 

[rid****ulous]

Gorf's really good at walking the line. He sticks his neck out plenty, but he's never really alone in the stances he takes. He does a lot of contributing to other people's pushes, and playing devil's advocate. He takes stances, but he's always being super reasonable about everything, which makes it so hard to hate his slot.

 

[#HBC | J]

Unvote Vote Gargaglione

What in the world at this vote? You were incredibly adamant on Honk and even made the statement here:

Garg's play reminds me a bit of Gorf's in the sense that it's pretty worthless / irrelevant for the town's progress. I can see why people would have issue with that kind of play but I don't think I can comfortably wrangle a read on Garg out of it [or on Ridic based on his read on Garg].

That you couldn't comfortably wrangle a read on Garg (or PBJ). The thing I find oddest is that your vote came before Nich's case.

 

[#HBC | J]

Gorf's really good at walking the line. He sticks his neck out plenty, but he's never really alone in the stances he takes. He does a lot of contributing to other people's pushes, and playing devil's advocate. He takes stances, but he's always being super reasonable about everything, which makes it so hard to hate his slot.

This is a very good way to put it.

 

[#HBC | J]

If there's ever an observation that I feel I've picked up on lately regarding SWF Mafia, it's that scum doesn't like doing anything unless they're provoked to, and most of the time, the people who are less proactive are the more likely to be scum. That isn't to say that the actives can't hold scum once in awhile, but this is always the feeling I get and why I always turn my focus towards them.

J, would you agree with my assumption? Should we be looking at the inactive more than the active? Is there any actives that you feel could be scum?

With a game like this? Yes. There are things to look at through the active players and as who could possibly be those "scummy actives"? I would say I am leaning IR. Gorf I am beginning to have my eye on just because he is really the middle-man in every argument so far with going back and forth and saying that he is okay with a lot of things. (Honk/Garg/Myself) I hate to bite the hand that has been helping me a bit (but backstabbing me at the same time), but it's really troubling me the more I see the exact same thing every time he posts.

Since I am caught-up now, I can post *with this post as segway* to what I am feeling right now:

Would not lynch toDay:
1. frozenmarsh751 (frozenflame751/marshy)
2. July (I feel July is town, but her reads are terrible this game, imo. I feel she is 2/3 wrong on her scum-read possibilites *well I know 1/3 but technicalities*)
5. ヽ(*・ω・)ﾉ♪ (-Masquerain-/soup) *Strongest town-read after re-read*
11. Gargaglione
6. Rid****ulous (PJB/Orbo)

Nulls that I am not 100% sold on either way:
3. Gorf
7. Nicholas1024
10. BadWolf28738(he literally only has one post...)

Would lynch:
4. Kary
8. Gheb_01
12. Nabe jakestan
13. Red Ruy(still not vibing well but out of this category, last on my lynch-list after full re-read.)

Unvote

Going to think where my vote should go. I doubt I would be able to swing 1/2 of these so it seems I am mainly coming down to which one of Kary/Nabe would be my preferred lynch toDay.

 

[#HBC | J]

I am going to head out for now. (mainly because it's 3am lol)

I have a final question though:

@July : Enough of the walls. Let's talk. 1 on 1. Help me, help you read me as town. You are wrong that I am scum and feel you are more reading the fact that I have been playing terrible this game. If you could not get me, would you be willing to hop onto a Kary/JS wagon? Talk to me on what you would do if you got my town-flip and I flip town? Where are you looking now? Consider the possibility of being wrong on me and what it does for the rest of your reads.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

No no, RR was the one who had voted for a NL and was "clogging the thread" with useless posts as Gorf put it [...]

RR was indeed clogging the thread with useless posts but it was Gorf who voted for a NL and you said you'd partly base your townGorf read on that. I still don't see how it makes sense.

 

[rid****ulous]

More here now than I was before. If people want my specific opinion on things then ask me directly but otherwise I'll just start with current events and roll from this post onwards since pjb has my opinions on the rest of thread.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

What in the world at this vote? You were incredibly adamant on Honk and even made the statement here:

[...]

That you couldn't comfortably wrangle a read on Garg (or PBJ). The thing I find oddest is that your vote came before Nich's case.

Too many worthless people that we need to get rid of. Nabistan, Gorf, Garg, Kary and Badwolf are all slots that I won't even bother trying to read at this point because there's literally nothing to read them as town for. Then there's your neverending back and forth with July which honestly didn't make either of you look too good. July still has a good bit of explaining to do and you had to resort to newbie-style AtE after getting exposed by her. In most games that'd be your guaranteed death ... in this game I doubt that it will be of any consequence. Bromarsh has done very little consequence either and recently even I myself have been in observe-mode more than anything else. And you say you're finding it hard to formulate a scum read on somebody? I personally have a hard time townreading most people.

At this rate honk will definitely stick around for a while and I don't even know how I'd argue against it now. He's fine but it's not because he's playing well.

From a strictly utilitarian point of view I'd say that Nabistan, Garg or Kary are the best lynches toDay. All of them have been utterly useless, all of them have at least some sort of connection to other players and - unlike Gorf and Badwolf [who are still decent lynches] - they have all been called scummy at some point of this Day, rightfully so. Right now I think a flip would be worth more than anything else.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

@ rid****ulous

What exactly do you have against lynching Kary? Is it really only Garg being more of an issue to you? I'm starting to think that Kary is our best lynch. In the context of my previous post I feel like Kary has the most telling connections of the 3 slots that I have mentioned as my preferred lynches. Things like his FoS on Gorf on p2 or 3 and his post about giving certain slots a free pass on Day 1 will give us a LOT to think about in case he flips scum. And if he flips town it's very feasible that his ... erratic behavior gained the attention of scum early. It's a good lynch and I'm favor of it. You should be too.

 

[rid****ulous]

I don't think there's anything wrong with it per se. It's just that we would like gargs lynch more seeing as we find him scummier. If deadline was no I personally (orbo) would have no problems voting kary

 

[rid****ulous]

Pjb might have a different story on that however.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

Vote Kary

Imma roll with it. J and Bromarsh will join as will ridic eventually. Gorf, Ryu, Garg or maybe others will serve as filler votes to get this done. It'll happen.