Flavorless Mafia: Game Over. Who won?

[Gargaglione]

I know the timing couldn't possibly be worse for me, but 'm actually gonna have to be be V/LA throughout tomorrow and saturday

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

*shrug*

unvote

Tis but a placeholder at this point. I'm at the end of tech week for little shop and we open tomorrow, so this week was rough on activity. I literally just saw fromar mention you not having scum hunted and I was like "wait a minute what HAS J done?!," but when you mentioned your V/LA I kinda realized that that's probably why I don't remember you doing anything else aside from early game J play. I still am not a fan of what I've seen of your play, but am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one and see what you have brewin, cuz I WILL admit I had gut townJ vibes from your original hardcore buddying jake post (where for some reason thought it was off).

 

[#HBC | J]

So, I am back and fired up to kick some ass and nail some scum. Mainly gonna just kick people's asses that are on my wagon because my wagon is 100% unjustified. Mainly because it is built upon faulty logic and marshy/July misinterpreting what I am doing. Marshy is mainly pushing me to get me to actually play and to back down from my JakeStan read. I know this for a fact due to the way he is pushing me and jabbing at me. To start out this post I am going to skip around from reads and posts that have caught my interest. Since I am already talking about Marshy, let's get started with this slot.

I'm going to call you out here and now, Marshy. Your push is utter bull and you and I both know this fact. I have told you countless times and countless times that my D1 play is absolute garbage. This is fact. This game I made the mistake of getting involved early on in conversations so it's just a reminder to me to not play this phase. However, I am going to indulge you in the fact of your scum-read on me which is entirely co-dependent on JakeStan. Yes, I did like his first post. You say that I am "whack", but that means nothing to me. I have a different read on JakeStan (now Nabe's slot) why is that read such a big deal to you? You even bring up a problem with July and PBJ coming at me, but not going after JS. That is what is whack about their push on me besides that and many other things. You got my attention with your vote and gathering July onto me, but this is where this ends because I do not feel like playing the "Lynch J D1" game because you will not gather much info from my flip. I will flip town and you will garner flack like you did in that one game I was in a hydra with Seph like 2 years ago and you got my slot vigged after lynching 2 scum-reads in 1 Day.

Let's continue with this though because I am going to squash even the tiniest notion that the possibility of your push being real on me. I am going to talk about the possibility that your read on me is real and that you do believe I am scum. Your push on me is on the fact that I quickly came to a conclusion for a town-lean on the slot. How is this different from other games I have played? You say that it has to deal with the way that I reacted to his post. Why are you choosing to interpret the way I am choosing to read a completely fresh and new player this game? I came to my conclusions on players through my own methods and you know it is hard for me to explain things without proof of connections, but D1 has no connections for me so I have to go off of gut and vibe. Maybe I should have not reacted the way I should have in hindsight, but am I going to apologize for that? Hell no. I am going to own up to it and say that I reacted the way I did was because I was genuinely happy with the fact that I could be able to relate to someone who seems to play the way I do.

That's a thing that a lot of people in this game I have not been able to go into. So let me begin to list what I say in JS' post that people missed.

The reason I saw JakeStan as a likeable figure was the fact that I understood where he was coming from when he was pressuring Honk. People complained that what he was doing was totally just "Textbook mafia 101". Where the absolute **** is the explanation for why this was scummy? This is literally a throw away reason to create suspicion on JakeStan without actually giving a legit reason as to why the slot is possibly scum. If anyone, and I repeat anyone of mafia experience in this game (a.k.a. Myself/Marshy/July/Gheb/*now*Nabe/even Gorf) typed that exact same post. No one would have batten an eye. The reason I read him as town is because he legitimately had the exact same thought I had when I read people when I am town. It is something that is privy to what I do and I could 100% relate to why he was doing things. I find no fault in the fact that I was town-leaning on a slot super early in the game (like pg.5) because I town-read slots much quicker than scum-reading slots. JakeStan was a town-lean and still is one of mine and hopefully Nabe will establish that read better for me, however, no one in this game has given me a reason to look at him any differently. I am going to rely on Nabe to solidfy this and/or people's flips and connections to this slot.

However, let me quote your(marshy) reasoning for disliking my slot:

"j has done some questionable **** around here and i fully encourage people ****ting on him"

Questionable ****? Where? Point this out. You encourage people ****ting on me, but for a non-existant reason besides the fact that you seem to be reading me as scum. That is a bunch of bull. Why are you relying on the sheer fact of July's tunnel-visioned "JDLR" read on me? So this is where I truly do not think that you feel I am scum and moreso just pushing me to further your read on me. This is your chance to back off of this until another day-phase to pursue this, I suggest you take it or this ride is going to get even worse.

I am sorry, Frozen, not really going to be talking to you much since I know how to your read your slot through marshy and I am 100% on my reading of him.

I will say that my read on the Marshy slot is I am leaning town. Mainly because he dropped a town-tell I know of and I am going to assume that true until I see how his pushes turn up. (pushes he pushes to lynch) At the current time, I do not have a problem with this slot sans the push on me. I get a lot of what they are saying and truly feel like they are just being misguided in that sense. I get why they don't like JS, but I have little care for that because it's not how I am reading that slot. What I want them to go more into is the Honk vs. IR holding one scum theory they are looking at. I did not think of it as that way when reading it and the more I read it the more I am feeling the whole debacle between the two is leading up a classic TvT scenario.

Since they came up next, let's hop around to Honk and IR. After reading the debate in detail, and twice. I feel that neither side is scummy in this debate. I like IR the most coming out of the debate because he has been correct in a lot of what he has said. IR is not a person I would be comfortable with lynching either. I just do not see scum between these two slots. If we were to flip the table and say that there was scum between July/IR/Marshy/Nich, then I would totally be looking into this slot. However, I have my eye on one of these slots already which I will go into later. Regarding Honk, I am finding really hard to feel Soup as scum. He keeps insisting to read the slot as a "hydra" and not on individual play, but there really is no point when seriously only one half of the slot has posted the entire time of the game it seems. Honk is a read I want to see more of because right now I do not want to think they are scum and I just can't.

Each time I try to even say "Honk is scum" just keeps leaving a really bad taste in my mouth. It feels forced if I were to establish that as an actual read. I am not going to just conform to the thought they are scum because I cannot get behind that from their play D1. Soup is sporadic and flailing like a fish but that's just Soup, he isn't the best of players from what I remember of the past. His play is just bad and I am seeing dummy>scummy in the case of Honk. That's here my head is at the current time. I think he got into a really bad argument with Gheb and lost. The only positive light I can see to that argument is that I am reading it as TvT for now.

Moving on, I am gonna group my nulls into a huge pile over here. That would be a pile of Ridick, Nich, Kary, Ruy, and BW. BW has not made any posts so he is the nulliest of nulls. I would say I am leaning town on Nich, but that's just meta. When I was reading his case on Garg, I found myself agreeing to a great majority of it and it caused me to re-read the Ridick vs. Garg debate. I had not really had a problem with Garg but reading that argument, there is a key difference between that argument and the Honk vs. IR debate. I feel this one holds a lot more like a TvS scenario. My first read through, I was a bit jaded into thinking that Ridick was the scum-read out of the two because of his vote on me was god awful. I am curious as to how he came to the conclusion that I am not all bad when I had not posted at all during the time because it seemed a bit forced. On my second read-through of the argument, I was looking at it consciously and saw more newbie scum-tells from Garg. The last time I played with Garg he was incredibly translucent. I seemed to have liked a lot of his posts this game too, but in the end I think I was doing my D1 thing where I thought lumped him in with town-reads TBD and just pushed on.

Ridick makes some actually really good points regarding Garg. His read's list is something that sets off incredibly loud alarm bells because it looks fabricated. It reminds me of Scary in FFT:2 mafia where he was catering to the reads of popular people and also coming in from a "re-read" but not really bringing any new information to the conversation and hopping on the easiest wagon at the time which was Honk. Honk was a very easy push during the time so I am currently analyzing it, however, there is a bit of me that wants something more concrete (like his flip) so I can finalize my opinions on slots. However, when questioned by Ridick, Garg continued to dig his hole deeper and deeper when he continued talking and it comes across more scummy rather than towny. He looks more like flailing scum trying to recover from being asked something he knows is faked rather than that of a town who honestly had genuine feelings.

That was a big problem I kept having with Garg during the debate. He kept saying "these are my genuine reads" but failed to ever once back them up. He just kept saying they were genuine and hold onto his grounds there and when pressured by Ridick he crumpled even farther and harder. I have a question for someone since they know Garg irl:

@ #HBC | Gorf : What are you thinking regarding Garg? At the current time, he is reading one of my top scum-reads. You say that you feel he has just been backed into a bad corner. Can you explain that into more detail?

Speaking of Gorf, I am probably leaning on Gorf as one my strongest town-reads this Dayphase. I have yet to see something I dislike from Gorf (besides his flip from J to July or his vote on me, but meh that just is because it deals directly with me) and I do like his posts. The read as sincerely genuine and trying to find scum in his own way. He's not the hardest of town-reads especially for D1, but probably would be the saddest to see go this Day phase. I also am just having a really hard time connecting to him to anyone. Literally, I just cannot see him working as a part of a team with the way he has been posting from now. If he is scum, he will become *hopefully* more transparent when more lynches occur and a deeper paper trail forms. For now, I am not wanting to lynch Gorf for a while.

Back to the nulls, Kary is in the same boat as Badwolf. His play in the early phase is sporatic, but he has slowed down considerably and almost to a non-existant pace. He usually has more to say from what I remember, but until he posts I am not really seeing him as a priority. Also because one of his biggest pushers I have a severe problem with. Red Ruy is also someone who I want to post more except he's a mirror version of Kary where he wasn't here early besides his asinine questioning of Gorf and now he is back but he is just asking a lot of empty questions. This is leading me to believe that Ruy is looking more like a scum-lean null rather than anything else. I do not know if it is because he is busy but until he posts more, I cannot do much with him besides say I do not like what I see regarding Ruy lately. Out of my priorities, Red Ruy is probably a #3.

Nich deserves his own paragraph. Upon a GargScum flip, I would really really like Nich. Him and Ridick would sky-rocket on my readslist. Nich does not post much, but when he does I do like what he says. His push on me in the beginning was on a misunderstanding I was able to take apart quickly and when he backed off it made me feel more like town realizing they dun goofed and backed off. I see no real reason to suspect Nich with his intent. He is actively looking for scum and also feeling out players in his own way. Plus from what little meta I have on this slot, I am liking him with that sprinkle add-on. With a GargTown flip, I would be more hesitant with liking Nich (and would also be moreso gunning for Ridick) and would re-evaluate his case in detail. The reason I would is because that would make Nich 0/2 on his pushes *Myself/Garg*, though, I do forgive him on the push on me, I have a rule I play by with older players that works. Basically, I want Garg's flip because it would give me a condemn on Ridick and give me pause on Nich or it would pseudo clear Ridick and Nich to me. The more I keep thinking about it, the more I want a Garg lynch because of his scummy behavior and the info we will get in this game.


Okay, time for a deep breath. This next one is going to take up quite some time. Especially because I am the only one presently thinking this so I have to go into detail why I believe so. I know I cannot acquire it toDay, but be damned if I am not going to push it while I can.

July, sweetheart, I believe you are mafia. I have read your posts countless times trying to see your town intent from them, but I am failing to see much of anything. You have infatuated people in the way you do when you post, but I am not going to be fooled by you this time. Most of the time that you are scum, I am scum with you so I know the difference when deciphering your scum posts from your town posts and I am going to show how. This is much more like your tunnel-visioned scum meta instead of your open-minded town meta.

Let's go into why. The main problem I have with you is your new-founded "JDLR" excuse you have to explain your reads on myself and Kary just look like a fabrication to give yourself an out to let you not look at other avenues. You are literally saying that you are refusing to open your eyes and take off the blinders and what you see is what you see. That is not how mafia is played and you and I both know this fact.

Big point I have against you: You are actively choosing to blind yourself and actively choosing to not look at the possibilities of people's actions may be something else.

For example, you comment on my buddying. You say that my RVS buddying was fine but when the game was beginning it suddenly turned not fine. Yes, I concede it was a little hammy and also a bit over the top, but that is how you get reactions. I study emotions and that is a fact you know since you started here. However, you are actively choosing to not delve into your experience, you are actively choosing to ignore what the possible town intent could be behind my actions, and you are actively choosing to ignore the preface that what I am saying is truly what I mean. You did not even let me continue in on my buddying with JS but nipped it in the bud before I could even garner any true results from it. You even mention in your post against me:

I expect deep analysis and critical contemplation of intent, even with potential “buddies”. I’ve come to expect your buddying, at least as town, to be a means to an end (additional information, scumhunting), rather than an end in and of itself as it seems to be here.

You expect a deep analysis and critical contemplation of intent, however, I was never given the fair chance to do so by you, but instead you hone in on the fact that my buddying of Jake is scummy. You cannot say that you do not feel that my buddying was scummy in your eyes because you have stated as such already in this game and you also have voted me for that action, and that action alone.

You have said that my posts have no real drive or going anywhere with my questions. You need to point out where, exactly, I am asking questions that do not go anywhere and I do not follow up on. I have checked this already, myself, and have not found any questions that did not lead anywhere or were fruitless in their manner. Plus, I have double-checked that follow ups on them as well. So I do not see your point here and it looks like a way for you to throw dirt at my slot unnecessarily to try and make your case against me stronger than it actually is. You have some followers, but they are mainly sheep (and marshy) at the time.

I would like to now bring up your Kary read. You do an almost mirrored version there on something that is completely null..

Another big point: You keep trying to turn "null actions" into scummy actions. You qualify most of your scum-reads with "Buddying isn't scummy, but J's buddying is scummy" or "Aggression isn't scummy, but Kary's aggression is scummy" then try to explain why you feel that way. However, what you keep on repeating is a bunch of null tells and trying to extrapolate them as scummy.

This isn't scumhunting.

People are choosing to ignore July just because she makes long posts that hold "logic" in it, but it is only logic in her own warped sense of what should be if you choose to enter her world of "JDLR". I think this "JDLR" justification for her pushes is utter garbage and is her way of qualifying her scummy reads as justified. The reason I am so riled up over July is because I know this is not how she thinks as town and I know for 100% fact that she is wrong on my slot so it just doubles the whammy on her for me that makes me so certain that she is scum. Some people are not letting her get away with this which I am happy for (which has a huge tie in with my Gorf read). The way Gorf ties in is because after each other July's posts he is usually there to say "I think the action itself is null" the only thing he says that makes my heart droop is the fact that he says he still likes what she is saying.

I'm not done though. Let's go into her "lynch list".

Would lynch:

Kary

J

Gargaglione

Would Consider lynching:

Jakestan

Would Not Lynch:

Gorf

Gheb

Honk

Rid****

Nich

Ryu

Frozenmarsh

It's not even a town-reads list or a scum-list. It is purely a list of people she is willing to lynch. This point may be stretching it a tad, but that's not the point I want to focus on.

She adds Garg to her list base don Ridick's reasoning and just copy-pastes it. She seems to hinge most of her reads on that based on others (When she first started J, she commented on agreeing with Nich and that's where her read began to stem from, Kary was the same way based on the pressure he had gotten from the early phase of the game). Leaning me to believe that she is seriously just looking at lynches she could get behind and get away with.

Big ????: Where in the world did her JakeStan(Nabe) read come from? In the post this is found linky link. There is no explanation of whatsoever as to why she is okay with seeing JS go. She even puts a qualifier that she would consider lynching him but to me this just looks like her giving herself a backing out so that if the opportunity arises to switch onto JS, she would hop on gladly with others because she put it in her list. Yet, it's empty. Her read on that slot is non-existant and reeks.

Big Point: July is mainly looking for who she can lynch and not for who is scummy. She has too many qualifiers with her J read, Kary read, and with JS it's not even there. The read she has explained the most is her read on Garg but he is just thrown in there as a third placeholder. She says in her post that she still wants Kary, but here's a kicker:

July is not actively pushing her scum-reads. She comes into the thread, votes them, and leaves. That is all she does. She does not try to develop those reads, but sits on them and waits to see where they go. She has been following popular thought and recycling reasoning.

July should be nowhere near anyone's "obv-town" list because people are just looking at the glossy covering that her posts give because they give what the reader wants to hear, but that's it.

That is why for now, my Vote is going onto July since we have a couple days to discuss this. My other place I would place my vote is Garg for the reasons I have posted above and feeling more that Garg vs. Ridick is leaning SvT with Garg being the scummy out of the two.

Vote: July
FoS: Garglione

You wanted to tango, now it's my turn to lead. Let's go, friend.

 

[#HBC | J]

Sleep...it's needed...

 

[Inglorious Retards]

Don't have the time to dig into the larger posts right now but what sticks out to me is how differently people read July. And from what I can see J seems to read July as scum for similar things that bromarsh is reading her as town for. Not sure yet what @Nicholas1024 reads her as town for but it's starting to look like people read either one or the other as scum. Not sure how I feel about it though and I'm not sure whether toDay should boid down to July vs J when people like Garg, honk and Gorf deserve death. I'm also open to arguments on why Kary and Nabeslot should be lynched.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

And let's not forget about Badwolf still having to make his way back into this game. There's a lot of question marks in this game, too many for me to comfortably tackle the more "reliable" slots.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I soooooooooooo don't deserve death man that's just mean.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Oh and J JESUS. STAHP. WALLING. MY EYES.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

@@Gorf : What are you thinking regarding Garg? At the current time, he is reading one of my top scum-reads. You say that you feel he has just been backed into a bad corner. Can you explain that into more detail?

Alright, I reread Honk, and for the past couple pages, I noticed that pretty much all of Honk's content is an attempt to get JS and Gheb off his back. He's only focusing on directing his content to people who don't like him in attempt to make himself look better or either turn it around on them, specifically with JS, who in my opinion is not scummy.

and overall notable reads at this moment are:
I think both July and Gheb are towny
I don't like frozenmarsh's play, it's not only aggressive, but sidelining
Butt Wolf or whatever and Ryu are absent and therefore null
Kary's weird but null, I don't know how to read his ****
JS is null-town
Gorf is null to me too
and J has gotten a lot of negative attention because of the buddying up of JS, which I agree is odd, but a lot of people claim that to be a way he plays, so I'm gonna wait to formulate more on him.

Vote: Honk
I'm sorry, Honk. At first I gave you the benefit of the doubt because of soup's meta, but your play has become OMGUS and self-preservative and I don't like your slot for that.

I think Honk's a good lynch for D1

No matter what anybody says, this post isn't ****in scummy. It's Garg's first light of content, and knowing Garg personally, it is not at all out of character for him to have taken this amount of time to come up with these (admittedly shallow) reads. But, I knew that at this point in the game, if Garg was town, he was going to be obvious. I read Garg differently than I read anybody else BECAUSE he's my homie in the real world; hell, even his next post on why he thought Honk was scum at the time felt pretty legitimate and makes sense as to why Garg placed his vote there when he did.

You're being aggressive in the way you defend yourself and even trying to give bad attention to Jakestan because he doesn't like your slot.
You recently haven't done much else besides that.

Of course, you're going to defend yourself under this circumstance, it's just how anxious you are to turn things around and how you lost focus on everything else.

If anything, this post in particular is a pretty towny post. It's completely original, for one, and is definitely true. I'm not going to go out on a limb and say that this post makes me town read the slot, but it was a start. And then it happened.

These posts stink. A bunch of people start dogpiling on Honk, then you do a convenient "reread", and now you're on board? Then this list of bull**** reads. You're faking content mad hard.

Riddick

If you're not faking content, then why did you post a readlist with almost all null reads?

dogpiles

Ryu has plenty of posts for you to look at. And yet

I had what, 3 posts? I suppose the fact that other people have expressed dislike of me had nothing to do with this comment? Tell me, what do you mean when you say "it's convenient"?

All your reads are like this. Bull****, vague as hell comments, but no real explanations. That's not content, I don't know why you think any of the things you said you think. Your dislike of both frozenmarsh, and myself, have exactly as much explanation as your null reads.

the

Concise? Come on man, "convenient" is not "concise", it's vague. It doesn't mean anything, it only means anything to you because the thoughts are already in your head. You need to explain that kind of ****, a single word does not a summary make.

And who am I parroting? I was alone on the J wagon, and I've explained why. The only other person who was still on J was July, and she posted after I did. Does the fact that I unvoted change your read?

****

Gargaglione's play still stinks, to me. All he's doing is riding the honk wagon, and not pressuring his other scum reads. If he doesn't like the way frozenmarsh is playing, why isn't he pressuring him?

He literally posted that ****ty little readslist, and declared Honk the best lynch for today. Really? We're ready to end D1 just like that? This is not the play of a townie, it's the play of a mafioso who wants to look like he's contributing, and wait for the day to be over. Hell, most of his reads are just popular opinion, which is a ****load of nulls. Then his one unique, non-null read? Getting on marshy's case for playing like marshy. Hell, not even "getting on his case", cuz he didn't direct anything to frozenmarsh. He just states a couple dislikes, doesn't address them, and waits for Honk to die.

Vote: Gargaglione

out

Nah man, it is ****ty. All your stances are safe as ****. Every single one of your reads is something somebody else said before you, you elaborate about nothing, and add nothing. All you've done is piggyback on other people's pushes.

Only player who has called me out so far? You didn't call out anything! I had to ask you what "convenient" meant. You also only jumped on me after J suggested I might be scum with Honk, and Gheb followed up by saying I should die. It's just another example of you only taking stances that you already know other people will agree with. Everything about your play is safe.

of

I have to bounce for the rest of today.

I'd like to hear what people think about Gargaglione after reading my post.

Also posting here to remind myself to respond to Ryu, and I guess Kary asked me something awhile back that I need to dig up.

Garg.

On the Riddick side of things, it reads as a townie who found somebody they read scum on and they went full throttle with it. Do first think later, as evidenced by the fact that Garg's reads post and Riddick's first interaction with Garg were separated by a mere 28 minutes. That leaves the characteristically slow Garg in a place where, no matter what he says, he's going to look bad from it. It's Soup all over again. My current read on Garg is inconclusive, and it's strictly based on this fact until I get my hands on this thread.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

God, J. I'm not reading that. Think what you want of me, but you really didn't have to write that much. Writing a lot doesn't make you townier, or even better for that matter. I'd rather prefer short and sweet than over-elaborated and a goddamn headache.

(I'll probably read it later)

Also, Gorf's read on Riddick is the same one I'm having right now, but I want to consider what Nich was saying earlier, but a part of me really is feeling like a lot of what's been said and done is TvT. @ #HBC | Gorf do you believe Riddick vs. Garg is TvT? Elaborate.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

While I'm here: @ Gargaglione , do you still think I'm mafia? You haven't really done anything with me and you've been sitting your vote on me for a while now, and I've made plenty of new posts and content for you to get at. I can't really do much with your vote if you won't at least ask me something.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

[...] I want to consider what Nich was saying earlier [...]

What exactly are you talking about?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

What exactly are you talking about?

Nich's case on Gargalione??

 

[Inglorious Retards]

I think I've responded to that one before Nich even posted it...

 

[Inglorious Retards]

Garg's play reminds me a bit of Gorf's in the sense that it's pretty worthless / irrelevant for the town's progress. I can see why people would have issue with that kind of play but I don't think I can comfortably wrangle a read on Garg out of it [or on Ridic based on his read on Garg].

On the very bottom of p8.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I've read J's post, or at least most of it. It might not fully concern me but I've been pretty suspicious of him based on his read on Jakestan. Reading J based on post by post isn't going to get you anywhere because J is so familiar with bull****ting a point to the extremes that he'll fluff up any argument he can to get on someone's side. J actually tends to throw himself out there and play aggressive with people that give him flak more often as scum than town, and he even said himself his D1 play is not best, but the difference between a town D1 J and a scum D1 J is that a town D1 J has no need to elaborate on points that he doesn't find interesting or worthwhile, but here, J seems rather focused on getting every single thing out there for no reason. This is why walls are bad and misleading, and scum can just type as much as town can. That's the feeling I get while reading that post, and all of being said, is actually nothing being said.

Yes, I called J's action to buddy Jakestan null, and I still hold to that opinion, but the fact that J hasn't really done anything with his read on Jakestan other than reiterate already made points makes it all the less believable, because Jakestan has done more than what J is basing his read off of. This is the main reason why J is scum before anything else, and that post J made only made me put him on a bigger priority than Jakestan at this point, because J is actively bull****ting, and his intentions read more as a scum who just wants to get through the phase than a town who wants to think things through. J, you realize this correct? That there's been more said, and you've decided it's worthless? Why? If you've done the reading you've said you've been doing, then did my case on Jakestan mean nothing to you? What about Ruy? The problem resides that the way you reach conclusions doesn't make sense, and I don't believe that you just decided I was an idiot and left it at that, because I know when you feel strongly about something, you're not easy to let it go. This might be true for your July read you're pushing right now, but I recall you having some pretty nasty words towards me and I remember me being pretty high up there. It would be easy to accept that you think I'm an idiot, but it's not conclusive enough.

I skimmed the rest of your July points, and they don't interest me. You can have a cat-fight with her later, but the former of what I said is why I'm changing my vote to you.

Vote: J

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@ ranmaru sorry for posting so much out of hydra. Joey is V/LA until Saturday and I've been here wanting to post.

 

[ヽ(*・ω・)ﾉ♪]

I've read J's post, or at least most of it. It might not fully concern me but I've been pretty suspicious of him based on his read on Jakestan. Reading J based on post by post isn't going to get you anywhere because J is so familiar with bull****ting a point to the extremes that he'll fluff up any argument he can to get on someone's side. J actually tends to throw himself out there and play aggressive with people that give him flak more often as scum than town, and he even said himself his D1 play is not best, but the difference between a town D1 J and a scum D1 J is that a town D1 J has no need to elaborate on points that he doesn't find interesting or worthwhile, but here, J seems rather focused on getting every single thing out there for no reason. This is why walls are bad and misleading, and scum can just type as much as town can. That's the feeling I get while reading that post, and all of being said, is actually nothing being said.

Yes, I called J's action to buddy Jakestan null, and I still hold to that opinion, but the fact that J hasn't really done anything with his read on Jakestan other than reiterate already made points makes it all the less believable, because Jakestan has done more than what J is basing his read off of. This is the main reason why J is scum before anything else, and that post J made only made me put him on a bigger priority than Jakestan at this point, because J is actively bull****ting, and his intentions read more as a scum who just wants to get through the phase than a town who wants to think things through. J, you realize this correct? That there's been more said, and you've decided it's worthless? Why? If you've done the reading you've said you've been doing, then did my case on Jakestan mean nothing to you? What about Ruy? The problem resides that the way you reach conclusions doesn't make sense, and I don't believe that you just decided I was an idiot and left it at that, because I know when you feel strongly about something, you're not easy to let it go. This might be true for your July read you're pushing right now, but I recall you having some pretty nasty words towards me and I remember me being pretty high up there. It would be easy to accept that you think I'm an idiot, but it's not conclusive enough.

I skimmed the rest of your July points, and they don't interest me. You can have a cat-fight with her later, but the former of what I said is why I'm changing my vote to you.

Vote: J

@ ranmaru sorry for posting so much out of hydra. Joey is V/LA until Saturday and I've been here wanting to post.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Also, Gorf's read on Rid**** is the same one I'm having right now, but I want to consider what Nich was saying earlier, but a part of me really is feeling like a lot of what's been said and done is TvT. @ #HBC | Gorf do you believe Rid**** vs. Garg is TvT? Elaborate.

I'm more inclined to believe that it's TvT at the moment, but that comes entirely from the fact that Riddick overshot his read on Garg and he basically got pushed into a corner, which imo is more likely to happen to a townie when another townie reads em wrong. But I don't have a solid enough stance on Garg to say that I'd save em from the noose if that's what you're asking.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Btw, if Garg flips scum, J's read on him feels like a naaaaaaaaaasty bus.

 

[#HBC | J]

Soup, I'm severely disappointed in you as a player.

1.) I haven't said anything nasty to you this Game besides that fact that you are a herpaderp.
2.) Your post is based off your hatred of walls, get over it, seriously.
3.) You say my wall is fluff, yet even admit to not reading it. You can't call something fluff you haven't read.
4.) I expounded in great detail on JakeStan and my read on them. That shows you have no idea what you are talking about and your reason for finding me scummy on JS is incorrect.
5.) Your meta argument is incredibly incorrect.

This is just a quick hit on the phone but I can go into more detail later.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Soup, I'm severely disappointed in you as a player.

1.) I haven't said anything nasty to you this Game besides that fact that you are a herpaderp.
2.) Your post is based off your hatred of walls, get over it, seriously.
3.) You say my wall is fluff, yet even admit to not reading it. You can't call something fluff you haven't read.
4.) I expounded in great detail on JakeStan and my read on them. That shows you have no idea what you are talking about and your reason for finding me scummy on JS is incorrect.
5.) Your meta argument is incredibly incorrect.

This is just a quick hit on the phone but I can go into more detail later.

1) When I said 'Nasty', I was saying that you thought I did things that were damnable to gain suspicion, and you weren't speaking lightly of my slot.
2) No, it isn't. There's much more beyond that and I explained in detail what I didn't like about your post, and what I don't like about you.
3) No, you're wrong again. I did read it. If I didn't then I wouldn't have even bothered with it had I not, and that wall is what make me switch my priority onto you.
4) Maybe so, but have you given weight to what he's done now? The base of my argument is that the way you reach conclusions is not sound.
5) It's subjective, and I don't want you to go on about this point if you're going to, my observation of you is just that, and I'd prefer if you answered the other problems I have with you.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I'll read up tonight.

 

[#HBC | J]

*taps foot*

Let's go about this another way.

Let's say you get my lynch, I flip town, what do you do then?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

*taps foot*

Let's go about this another way.

Let's say you get my lynch, I flip town, what do you do then?

Right now, I'm feeling Kary/You at the moment, maybe not aligned, but that's where I feel is best. My problem with this game at the moment is that I'm too comfortable with a lot of the active players, and far too uncomfortable with the people who haven't done so much. I don't understand why Ruy is a town-read to people quite yet, but he certainly doesn't have anything that makes me want to lynch him. I am finding it hard to grasp onto things that I feel are worthy grabbing onto, but I think while you're getting the pressure you're getting, that it would be worth getting down to it. I think you'd make a good lynch solely off of connections, and I also hold that You/Jakestan has one scum, and not aligned. The way you went about with the buddy with Jakestan doesn't seem like something you as a scum would do.

I posted recent thoughts on everyone if you didn't read it, like, a couple of pages back. #340 if you want to get into it.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

If there's ever an observation that I feel I've picked up on lately regarding SWF Mafia, it's that scum doesn't like doing anything unless they're provoked to, and most of the time, the people who are less proactive are the more likely to be scum. That isn't to say that the actives can't hold scum once in awhile, but this is always the feeling I get and why I always turn my focus towards them.

J, would you agree with my assumption? Should we be looking at the inactive more than the active? Is there any actives that you feel could be scum?

 

[July]

Those were my sincere reads. I hadn't been posting much, so I felt the need to throw in a little catch-up post

Okay, so how are you feeling now? Update me on your thoughts, now that people have reacted to your post and there have been a couple different wagons and a lot of voting/casemaking lately.

@ July

Any particular reason why you're against Gorf dying toDay? Don't see what that mofo has done to deserve a town read.

He hasn’t thrown up any red flags for me, and what he’s done that has allowed me to get a feel for his intent comes across as genuinely of town intent. I thought that his early criticisms of RR for clogging the thread and voting for a NL were valid and in the spirit of getting real scumhunting started. I also find his process of reading Honk and very visibly analyzing and reanalyzing his play to figure out “dumb” or “scum” has been sincere and that his #289 was a genuine effort to cut through distractions and assumptions based on meta to try and look at Honk’s intent and motivation this game.

Also, I’ll delve into this more in my response to J, but not everyone in the list of people I don’t want to lynch is a town read per say, some of those players I’m still trying to figure out but their behavior hasn’t thrown up red flags for me and I don’t think that their lynches would benefit town and/or provide much information toDay.

Hmm, I'm probably not good at reading Kary. Would like to know who other than July and bromarsh want to lynch him and who doesn't.

I would also be interested in seeing other people’s read on Kary, I don’t think many people have responded to this comment.

Why is Honk scum? You can tell me that.

This is the crux of the back-and-forth between Reddick and Garg. Most of the battle was Garg telling Reddick that he’s reading his intent incorrectly and Reddick pushing back with his reading of Garg’s intent. Garg’s attempt to clear his name by simply asserting that Reddick is reading his intent wrong doesn’t help anything, especially if he’s trying to prove that he’s town, because of course anyone is going to explain their own intent as town intent. I like that Reddick cuts through the subjective town intent argument that Garg is making for himself to push him to actually scumhunt and explain his reads if he is town.

Nich’s case on Garg in his #432 is a nice summary of why Garg’s play has not only been bad and safe, but scummy. Good Good.

Garg is V/LA until Saturday according to his #441, so unless anyone has a compelling reason to lynch someone before that time, I’d really like to hear what his case is on Honk, as per Reddick’s request quoted earlier, and get answers from him about my questions to him as well before the end of this Day phase.

@J’s #443: No, you’re scum. That addresses all the issues you raised in that post, right?

For real, I’ll start responding to your mega-post right after I post this post, so you can expect it sometime in the near future.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

[quote="July, post: 16604882, member: 172162"]I thought that his early criticisms of RR for clogging the thread and voting for a NL were valid and in the spirit of getting real scumhunting started.[/quote]

You think that him voting for a NL from the get-go was in the spirit of getting "real scumhunting" started? Can you confirm that that's what you meant to say here?

 

[July]

So, I am back and fired up to kick some *** and nail some scum. Mainly gonna just kick people's ***** that are on my wagon because my wagon is 100% unjustified. Mainly because it is built upon faulty logic and marshy/July misinterpreting what I am doing. Marshy is mainly pushing me to get me to actually play and to back down from my JakeStan read. I know this for a fact due to the way he is pushing me and jabbing at me. To start out this post I am going to skip around from reads and posts that have caught my interest. Since I am already talking about Marshy, let's get started with this slot.

I...disagree. I feel like that's a pretty good start to this conversation.

I'm going to call you out here and now, Marshy. Your push is utter bull and you and I both know this fact. I have told you countless times and countless times that my D1 play is absolute garbage. This is fact. This game I made the mistake of getting involved early on in conversations so it's just a reminder to me to not play this phase. However, I am going to indulge you in the fact of your scum-read on me which is entirely co-dependent on JakeStan. Yes, I did like his first post. You say that I am "whack", but that means nothing to me. I have a different read on JakeStan (now Nabe's slot) why is that read such a big deal to you? You even bring up a problem with July and PBJ coming at me, but not going after JS. That is what is whack about their push on me besides that and many other things. You got my attention with your vote and gathering July onto me, but this is where this ends because I do not feel like playing the "Lynch J D1" game because you will not gather much info from my flip. I will flip town and you will garner flack like you did in that one game I was in a hydra with Seph like 2 years ago and you got my slot vigged after lynching 2 scum-reads in 1 Day.

I know this isn’t addressed to me but still, it’s a pretty ****ty move to say that someone is misinterpreting your play because they just aren’t following your meta. You are also sending mixed messages here by saying “I know my D1 play is absolute garbage”, which means that at the very least you can admit that some of the pushback against your play has been valid because you haven’t been playing well, and yet you say just a paragraph earlier that your wagon is totally unjustified and everyone is just misinterpreting you...essentially that it’s all just us being bad at reading or scummy rather than you playing poorly. And that, my dear, is because you want to have it both ways; you want your play for toDay to be written off as “garbage” and totally in line with your meta, but you also want to completely discredit the wagon on you and cast our votes as completely invalid and thus scummy.

Let's continue with this though because I am going to squash even the tiniest notion that the possibility of your push being real on me. I am going to talk about the possibility that your read on me is real and that you do believe I am scum. Your push on me is on the fact that I quickly came to a conclusion for a town-lean on the slot. How is this different from other games I have played? You say that it has to deal with the way that I reacted to his post. Why are you choosing to interpret the way I am choosing to read a completely fresh and new player this game? I came to my conclusions on players through my own methods and you know it is hard for me to explain things without proof of connections, but D1 has no connections for me so I have to go off of gut and vibe. Maybe I should have not reacted the way I should have in hindsight, but am I going to apologize for that? Hell no. I am going to own up to it and say that I reacted the way I did was because I was genuinely happy with the fact that I could be able to relate to someone who seems to play the way I do.

Most of this is for Marshy to react to but i just have to point out the terrible logic that you’ve been using to discredit your wagon. You are once again pushing meta hard as a reason why everything you’ve done so far that is scummy should be forgotten and given a pass. Furthermore, you question why anyone would be analyzing the way you interact with a new player and seem to discredit that the interaction as providing any useful information or potential intent. So much of mafia is based off of interpreting how people interact with one another , and how you interacted with a completely fresh and new player is no exception; such interactions are open to scrutiny just like any other interaction you have, and your interaction with Jakestan was scummy J, and that doesn’t just go away because he went away or because you don’t want it to be used against you.

The reason I saw JakeStan as a likeable figure was the fact that I understood where he was coming from when he was pressuring Honk. People complained that what he was doing was totally just "Textbook mafia 101". Where the absolute **** is the explanation for why this was scummy? This is literally a throw away reason to create suspicion on JakeStan without actually giving a legit reason as to why the slot is possibly scum. If anyone, and I repeat anyone of mafia experience in this game (a.k.a. Myself/Marshy/July/Gheb/*now*Nabe/even Gorf) typed that exact same post. No one would have batten an eye. The reason I read him as town is because he legitimately had the exact same thought I had when I read people when I am town. It is something that is privy to what I do and I could 100% relate to why he was doing things. I find no fault in the fact that I was town-leaning on a slot super early in the game (like pg.5) because I town-read slots much quicker than scum-reading slots. JakeStan was a town-lean and still is one of mine and hopefully Nabe will establish that read better for me, however, no one in this game has given me a reason to look at him any differently. I am going to rely on Nabe to solidfy this and/or people's flips and connections to this slot.

I’m not sure about other people’s feelings on Jakestan’s “Textbook Mafia 101” play, but I NEVER pointed to it as a reason why he was scummy; I pointed to your head over heels reaction to his textbook 101 mafia play as scummy because it simply wasn’t anything special and definitely not something unequivocally indicative of towniness as you played it off. Also, I disagree with the last part of the bolded, because I think that if one of us with experience posted that phrase about how he was on Honk for pressure and that’s what town is supposed to do etc. it would just come across as a useless excuse for a useless vote that is intended for “pressure” even though that pressure is gone after you reveal that the only reason that you were voting was for pressure, and you sure as hell wouldn’t have commended us on taking such a stance. That’s why you commending him to the highest degree is so strange; you were either coddling him, which would be foolish, or you were trying damn hard to buddy him, which with a new player has different implications than with an older player because it means you have a greater shot at gaining their undying allegiance even if you are scummy as hell.

Moving on, I am gonna group my nulls into a huge pile over here. That would be a pile of Ri****, Nich, Kary, Ruy, and BW. BW has not made any posts so he is the nulliest of nulls. I would say I am leaning town on Nich, but that's just meta. When I was reading his case on Garg, I found myself agreeing to a great majority of it and it caused me to re-read the Ri**** vs. Garg debate. I had not really had a problem with Garg but reading that argument, there is a key difference between that argument and the Honk vs. IR debate. I feel this one holds a lot more like a TvS scenario. My first read through, I was a bit jaded into thinking that Ri**** was the scum-read out of the two because of his vote on me was god awful. I am curious as to how he came to the conclusion that I am not all bad when I had not posted at all during the time because it seemed a bit forced. On my second read-through of the argument, I was looking at it consciously and saw more newbie scum-tells from Garg. The last time I played with Garg he was incredibly translucent. I seemed to have liked a lot of his posts this game too, but in the end I think I was doing my D1 thing where I thought lumped him in with town-reads TBD and just pushed on.

Can you explain what newbie scum-tells you saw?

I really like your case on Garg, it reeks of bussing as you lay out all your concerns about him but then push a diversion wagon on me :-) it makes me feel much more confident that toDay can either go you or Garg for the lynch, we’re going to hit scum either way.

Also, all of your null reads/lean reads are just too vague for me to give a crap about, it’s very clear that the only person you really want to portray as scum toDay is me while you cast a bit of shade on Garg for good measure.

Okay, time for a deep breath. This next one is going to take up quite some time. Especially because I am the only one presently thinking this so I have to go into detail why I believe so. I know I cannot acquire it toDay, but be damned if I am not going to push it while I can.

It’s okay, I totally understand, it gives you the perfect opportunity to make a “genuine” push on someone and look like you are scumhunting while the wagon slowly builds upon your buddy Gorg. Your hope is that this wagon will catch steam, but if it doesn’t then you can, with exasperation, switch over to Gorg at the end of the Day and make it look like he was really a super serious scumread and that you just wanted to push me first, but his lynch will do.

Let's go into why. The main problem I have with you is your new-founded "JDLR" excuse you have to explain your reads on myself and Kary just look like a fabrication to give yourself an out to let you not look at other avenues. You are literally saying that you are refusing to open your eyes and take off the blinders and what you see is what you see. That is not how mafia is played and you and I both know this fact.

Big point I have against you: You are actively choosing to blind yourself and actively choosing to not look at the possibilities of people's actions may be something else.

You can say what you want about me, but don’t you dare attack the JDLR, it’s actually something that’s been incredibly useful in my real life for investigative research and analysis, so it’s not like this is some thing I pulled out of my ass to throw people off. In fact, I think that I used the JDLR to explain exactly why my reads on you and Kary exist; maybe if I called your JDLRs “red flags” or “vibes” you wouldn’t have an issue with it? Anyways, you are going to have to explain more about how I’m “blinding” myself and what the JDLR has to do with it because I’m not understanding your argument.

For example, you comment on my buddying. You say that my RVS buddying was fine but when the game was beginning it suddenly turned not fine. Yes, I concede it was a little hammy and also a bit over the top, but that is how you get reactions. I study emotions and that is a fact you know since you started here. However, you are actively choosing to not delve into your experience, you are actively choosing to ignore what the possible town intent could be behind my actions, and you are actively choosing to ignore the preface that what I am saying is truly what I mean. You did not even let me continue in on my buddying with JS but nipped it in the bud before I could even garner any true results from it. You even mention in your post against me:

Bolded: For the love of God, please stop making the meta argument. It has been soooo long since I’ve played and looking into meta is always a catch-22 because I know that you know your meta, and you know that I know that you know your meta, and so on so no, I’m not “delving into my experience” and looking at meta because I think that it’s a really good way for me to get bit in the ass after being gone for so long.

Anyways, I am listening to what you are saying and the intent that you are telling me is behind your reads, I just don’t find it to be genuine. And you can get frustrated and say that I’m blinding myself but that is simply how mafia works; just because you say that your intent was to get reads doesn’t mean it’s true, just like Garg saying that his read list is just a genuine attempt to get his thoughts out there doesn’t mean it’s true.

You expect a deep analysis and critical contemplation of intent, however, I was never given the fair chance to do so by you, but instead you hone in on the fact that my buddying of Jake is scummy. You cannot say that you do not feel that my buddying was scummy in your eyes because you have stated as such already in this game and you also have voted me for that action, and that action alone.

How were you not given the chance to do so? You can post what you want when you want, and you did provide an explanation for your interactions with Jakestan and your extreme flattery and town read, and your reasons were a bunch of crap in my opinion that were way too solid and extreme for what Jakestan had contributed to the conversation. And you seem to think I’m going to deny that I thought your interactions with Jakestan were scummy and that’s why I voted you; that’s completely true and I completely stand behind that so...your point?

You have said that my posts have no real drive or going anywhere with my questions. You need to point out where, exactly, I am asking questions that do not go anywhere and I do not follow up on. I have checked this already, myself, and have not found any questions that did not lead anywhere or were fruitless in their manner. Plus, I have double-checked that follow ups on them as well. So I do not see your point here and it looks like a way for you to throw dirt at my slot unnecessarily to try and make your case against me stronger than it actually is. You have some followers, but they are mainly sheep (and marshy) at the time.

I’m very simply not going to go through the whole thread to find every instance of you asking useless questions, but here’s an example:

Can you go into what you like about Ruy/Gheb/Honk/Jake?

Hiding intent, you are putting up a mask. You usually do this and it aggravates me because I cannot read someone who is deliberately hiding what they truly mean to say so adamantly. But yes, I didn't see your question because my username is hard to tag. I may just change it so I can be tagged easier. So what did you get based off my answer then?

Your “intent” behind asking questions like this is to get information, right? To get a better feel for a player so you can get a read on them, correct?

That would be good, it really would, and would mean something if they factored into your scumhunting or your reads at all. But you’ve asked questions like these, people have responded, and then what? I guess I should emphasize that it's not that the questions as they're worded are useless, but that you've rendered them useless by doing nothing with the information you've gathered from them. Before your V/LA I remember you naming Jakestan and Gorf as townreads, and maybe Honk although if you did it wasn’t very memorable. Since you’ve gotten back, it seems every question you’ve asked prior to your V/LA was for naught; you’ve based all your reads that actually mean something on your wagon, and all those questions you’ve asked have resulted in a big fat pile of nulls with some leans in there that you don’t really seem concerned about anyways. So your questions, I will reinterate, have been for the most part pointless, and this is the first drive you’ve made with any real oomph and it’s a mix of omgus, diversion, and undermining your wagon.

I would like to now bring up your Kary read. You do an almost mirrored version there on something that is completely null..

Another big point: You keep trying to turn "null actions" into scummy actions. You qualify most of your scum-reads with "Buddying isn't scummy, but J's buddying is scummy" or "Aggression isn't scummy, but Kary's aggression is scummy" then try to explain why you feel that way. However, what you keep on repeating is a bunch of null tells and trying to extrapolate them as scummy.

I disagree that behaviors that affect the way people interact with one another and try to gather information from each other are null tells. I consider behaviors that are purposeful attempts to establish some kind of thread presence without putting in the work of scumhunting, in the case of Kary, as more than null. You can disagree, but I will continue to disagree with you.

This isn't scumhunting.

In another shocking turn of events...I disagree.

People are choosing to ignore July just because she makes long posts that hold "logic" in it, but it is only logic in her own warped sense of what should be if you choose to enter her world of "JDLR". I think this "JDLR" justification for her pushes is utter garbage and is her way of qualifying her scummy reads as justified. The reason I am so riled up over July is because I know this is not how she thinks as town and I know for 100% fact that she is wrong on my slot so it just doubles the whammy on her for me that makes me so certain that she is scum. Some people are not letting her get away with this which I am happy for (which has a huge tie in with my Gorf read). The way Gorf ties in is because after each other July's posts he is usually there to say "I think the action itself is null" the only thing he says that makes my heart droop is the fact that he says he still likes what she is saying.

I know this isn’t the point and it shouldn’t bother me, but it’s not a “world” of JDLR; if I called them “red flags”, which is essentially the same thing except less investigative and more intuition based, you wouldn’t have a problem with my terminology, and attacking my terminology is sooooo ridiculous stupid although apparently necessary for you to build up a case on me. More appeal to meta (this time mine, which I would argue is a bad move for anyone in the game to base their read on me off of considering it’s been about 10 months since I’ve played a game) .

It's not even a town-reads list or a scum-list. It is purely a list of people she is willing to lynch. This point may be stretching it a tad, but that's not the point I want to focus on.[/quotes]

From what I remember, and maybe I missed a memo on this, but posting your townreads list is generally a bad idea because then it gives scum a great guideline to who they won’t be able to get lynched and thus who they have to nightkill. Thus, my list at least aims at more ambiguity, because it really doesn’t matter who I have a super strong town read on and who I’m kinda leaning town on but don’t want to die. What matters are the people who I think can and should be lynched because I think they have a good chance of flipping scum.

She adds Garg to her list base don Ri****'s reasoning and just copy-pastes it. She seems to hinge most of her reads on that based on others (When she first started J, she commented on agreeing with Nich and that's where her read began to stem from, Kary was the same way based on the pressure he had gotten from the early phase of the game). Leaning me to believe that she is seriously just looking at lynches she could get behind and get away with.[/quotes]

You completely and willfully ignore the fact that I am always on catch-up mode, and that as you’ve learned wrt to your Garg post, when you’re playing catch-up, other people have already said things that you want to say unless you have some fantastic insight or you are barking up a completely un-barked upon tree. I did not just copy-paste though, I wrote up my insights and then when I saw reddick posted essentially the same thing, I went back and put a disclaimer in the beginning of my post that reddick covered a lot of what I wanted to say but that I was going to post my thoughts anyways.


[/quotes]

Big ????: Where in the world did her JakeStan(Nabe) read come from? In the post this is found linky link. There is no explanation of whatsoever as to why she is okay with seeing JS go. She even puts a qualifier that she would consider lynching him but to me this just looks like her giving herself a backing out so that if the opportunity arises to switch onto JS, she would hop on gladly with others because she put it in her list. Yet, it's empty. Her read on that slot is non-existant and reeks.

OH MY GOD this is so frustrating watching you trying to predict my responses and fail horribly at it. I am WELL aware that I have not stated my read on Jakestan, because his slot has been pretty much useless to me so far other than helping me get a read on you. Is he someone I would push on my own? No, because I haven’t seen him do anything that screamed scum to me. Would I lynch him over you, Gorg, or Kary if I had the opportunity? No, I want one of you three gone toDay, with you and Gorg far ahead of Kary at this point. Would I lynch him if it was a choice between Jakestan and any of the following: Gorf, Gheb, Honk, Reddick, Nich, Ryu, Badwolf or FrozenMarsh? In a heartbeat. I either have town reads or leans on those slots, or they haven’t had many interactions and their lynch would render less information than a Jakestan lynch. That said, Nabe’s play could push that slot either into the ‘lynchable” zone or the “do not lynch” zone, or I could continue to feel a nagging ambivalence towards the slot, but only time will tell on that one.

Big Point: July is mainly looking for who she can lynch and not for who is scummy. She has too many qualifiers with her J read, Kary read, and with JS it's not even there. The read she has explained the most is her read on Garg but he is just thrown in there as a third placeholder. She says in her post that she still wants Kary, but here's a kicker:

July is not actively pushing her scum-reads. She comes into the thread, votes them, and leaves. That is all she does. She does not try to develop those reads, but sits on them and waits to see where they go. She has been following popular thought and recycling reasoning.

Big point: July is pushing you and your scum buddy and you really don’t like that. And I’ve explained my read on you and Kary, and my read on you has been greatly elaborated on in this post.

Also, I have been pushing my scumreads to the best of my ability, but I very simply do not have the time to linger around the thread and wait for people to post. I’m not using that as an excuse, I see nothing wrong with the way I’m playing and pushing my scumreads and expressing my reads, but you do, and that’s a shame because my playstyle very simply can’t and won’t change due to real life priorities.

Also, I think you forgot while chastizing me for “not pushing my scumreads” that you haven’t been pushing your scumreads, or even had real scumreads, until this post, so maybe a little less of the hypocrisy, no?

That is why for now, my Vote is going onto July since we have a couple days to discuss this. My other place I would place my vote is Garg for the reasons I have posted above and feeling more that Garg vs. Ri**** is leaning SvT with Garg being the scummy out of the two.

Vote: July

FoS: Garglione

You wanted to tango, now it's my turn to lead. Let's go, friend.

We can tango, but can we not tango like this anymore? This took way, way too long to respond to and I’m sure it’s going to be a pain for everyone else to read.

 

[July]

[quote="July, post: 16604882, member: 172162"]I thought that his early criticisms of RR for clogging the thread and voting for a NL were valid and in the spirit of getting real scumhunting started.

You think that him voting for a NL from the get-go was in the spirit of getting "real scumhunting" started? Can you confirm that that's what you meant to say here?

[/quote]

No no, RR was the one who had voted for a NL and was "clogging the thread" with useless posts as Gorf put it, and Gorf called him out on this behavior as being a distraction to the game once we were out of RVS. Gorf didn't seem to infer that what RR was doing was scummy, rather he was trying to weed through the useless crap in the thread to get into the game and get real scumhunting going.

 

[ranmaru]

Votecount 1.10

frozenmarsh751
July: J
Gorf:
Kary:
Honk: Nabe, Gargalione
Rid****ulous
Nicholas1024
Gheb_01: Badwolf
J: FrozenMarsh, July, Honk
BadWolf:
Gargaglione**: Rid****ulous, Gheb, Nicholas1024
Nabe: Red Ryu
Red Ruy**: Gorf

Not voting:
Kary

Notes:
J's V/LA has ended.
Red Ryu V/LA through Sunday.
Garg V/LA through Saturday.

*= Currently being replaced
**= V/LA

With 13 players, it takes 7 votes to lynch
The deadline for Day 1 is April 16th, at 11:59 PM.

 

[ranmaru]

@Kary has been prodded.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Unvote

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Wow. When July goes in she goes IN.

@ July I forget, where is your vote on? Cuz the response to J makes it seem like you're there already but like yea you were talking about Kary and I think you voted em.

Man I am fried.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Awe **** ebwop

Vote: J

Mostly cuz I feel like giving her a temporary double vote till I catch up.

 

[July]

@ #HBC | Gorf : I'm on J, I switched my vote after reddick asked me if I would be willing to support a J lynch and I said yes.

Also I just noticed the formatting of my #469 got messed up, there is even more back and forth between J and I in that final quote in my post.

 

[#HBC | J]

I can't respond to July. I just...I've lost this debate, hard.

I'm sorry, I've dug myself way too far into the ground and I doubt I can submerge from this one without being lynched and I will just be a distraction slot for the rest of the game.

*sigh* Lynch me. My flip will gain information for town and help you guys win in the end. The least we can do is use the rest of this dayphase to find out who actually is scum. I'm being completely honest and saying that I am not scum. I have just played a terrible D1 and I am floundering like a fish since I haven't been under pressure in mafia in forever. The least i can do is lead a paper trail to the wagoners on my lynch, but I am going to try and give this game another read-through.

Least to say, I retract my scum-read on July. I just, my case was extremely OMGUS in retrospect because I am infuriated that she is reading me as scum. Reading her points and logic, I finally understand why people see me as scum. *took me a good 20-30 minutes to read with formatting errors* Then my Garg push is truly just a way to look at the other wagon and move the pressure from me to him so I don't get lynched which is just the survivalistic part on my end because I thought I could recover after this lynch regardless of the flip. Now? I don't really think so.

Anyways, if you have questions for me, please let me know so I can answer them before I get lynched. Going to re-evaluate....well everything this game. I'll be around, but I hate D1, with a burning passion.

 

[frozenmarsh751]

I am going to try and give this game another read-through.

Going to re-evaluate....well everything this game.

PLEASE do asap. we have 4 days to make a decision and ive been toying with the idea of swinging another lynch

 

[#HBC | J]

Give me a direction, please. I am sincerely lost and have no where to look because I keep looking at my posts and just repeating "Oh god, I ****ed up."

Gonna start reading now since this game is only 12 pages.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

J if you are town (which that response is making me think) you are a total flamer. Go ahead and re evaluate but that is a really peculiar way of going about admitting you were wrong to say the least.