Flavorless Mafia: Game Over. Who won?

[Gargaglione]

You use the phrase, "I just randomly hold different stances"

and "he's really just playing null."

2 things I already told you that you said, quoted to you, asked you about it, and you denied it. Do you now see my issue with your responses? You're not being consistent. You're flailing.

I obviously meant "I dont just hold random stances" as town or scum, why would I type that I hold random stances ?
I didnt catch that typo

 

[rid****ulous]

because you were assuring me that your stances weren't the same as everyone else. Your stance was "randomly different" from everyone else's, "he's really just playing null."

I hadn't accused you of changing your stance or anything, in fact I accused you of having the same stance as everyone else. I can't see a way of reasonably interpreting that phrase any other way than that.

 

[Gargaglione]

because you were assuring me that your stances weren't the same as everyone else. Your stance was "randomly different" from everyone else's, "he's really just playing null."

I hadn't accused you of changing your stance or anything, in fact I accused you of having the same stance as everyone else. I can't see a way of reasonably interpreting that phrase any other way than that.

Let me ask you something:
Do you sincerely believe that it's likely that what I was trying to tell you with that post is that my stances are formulated at random rather than logic and reading?
Regardless of alignment, that would be me telling you that i am worthless and that my reads hold no weight.

It's a typo, and i meant to put "don't". I've mostly been playing on my phone, as im doing right now, it's not hard to **** up some of the typing

You'd be dumb to believe that it isn't a typo

 

[Gargaglione]

I hadn't accused you of changing your stance or anything, in fact I accused you of having the same stance as everyone else. I can't see a way of reasonably interpreting that phrase any other way than that.

Oh and, no, not everyone believes Jakestan is null or townlean.

 

[rid****ulous]

Ok, that's fine. It's typo then.

Your readlist is still bad, your reason for being on Honk is terrible, the way you jumped on his wagon is terrible, and the way you've been playing is still super safe. That silly "slip" I thought I caught is hardly the crux of my case.

 

[Gargaglione]

Ok, that's fine. It's typo then.

Your readlist is still bad, your reason for being on Honk is terrible, the way you jumped on his wagon is terrible, and the way you've been playing is still super safe. That silly "slip" I thought I caught is hardly the crux of my case.

Not really, because with that misunderstanding from the typo, you have concluded that all those actions of mine have been without real logic or reason behind them other than in appearing active.

I explained my sincere intentions behind my readlist, as it was a catch-up post so that people know where I stand, I explained how I think Honk is playing self-preservative.
And my readlist really isnt so safe. I dont agree with everything going on, and Ive expressed that

 

[rid****ulous]

My conclusion that you are just trying to appear active is, in no way, based on that typo. I stated that your readlist was bull****, and you were playing safe, long long before you even made that typo.

 

[Gargaglione]

My conclusion that you are just trying to appear active is, in no way, based on that typo. I stated that your readlist was bull****, and you were playing safe, long long before you even made that typo.

Im saying that typo has definitely influenced your stance, even if it's not the largest factor.
Regardless, I've tried multiple times to explain to you the intent behind my actions, and any further explanation would be me repeating myself.

 

[rid****ulous]

Look man, you can keep flailing if you want to, but the fact is that "posting a catchup" that looks like the one you posted, does not seem genuine to me. There's nothing you can say after the fact that will change that. You can keep saying "but it is genuine!" until the cows come home. I don't buy it. It was a super hastily constructed readlist, followed by a poorly justified jump on a convenient wagon. That's a thing you did, in the past.

 

[Gargaglione]

.

I explained my sincere intentions behind my readlist, as it was a catch-up post so that people know where I stand, I explained how I think Honk is playing self-preservative.
And my readlist really isnt so safe. I dont agree with everything going on, and Ive expressed that

@ rid****ulous
So yea if you dont believe this, what else can I tell you?

 

[rid****ulous]

Why is Honk scum? You can tell me that.

 

[Gargaglione]

Look man, you can keep flailing if you want to, but the fact is that "posting a catchup" that looks like the one you posted, does not seem genuine to me. There's nothing you can say after the fact that will change that. You can keep saying "but it is genuine!" until the cows come home. I don't buy it. It was a super hastily constructed readlist, followed by a poorly justified jump on a convenient wagon. That's a thing you did, in the past.

Yea, and keep repeating the word "flailing", because that totally invalidates everything I say.

 

[Gargaglione]

Why is Honk scum? You can tell me that.

Im gonna have to get on a comp to do all the quoting and number post references, so I promise I'll get to you on this. I have to go for now.

 

[rid****ulous]

I really doubt anything you give me is going to convince me. Go ahead and build that case, but while you're doing it, ask yourself "is this really as damning as I thought it was?"

If you're town, I seriously recommend that you stop being stubborn, and reevaluate your stance on honk.

 

[Inglorious Retards]

Unvote Vote Gargaglione

 

[frozenmarsh751]

@ frozenmarsh751

jakestan first please holla at me

no. literally everyone in this game hates j besides bwolf/jake. when was the last time youve seen j even try to lynch scum? he dies today

 

[ranmaru]

Jakestan has elected to replace out. I'm going to look for a replacement now. (from the replacement list first)

 

[frozenmarsh751]

and thats why we dont allow new people into the game

 

[rid****ulous]

and thats why we dont allow new people into the game

have you ever heard that jake isnt new? jake isnt new. iight bruh thanks

 

[#HBC | J]

Marshy, you know I'm destroying you when I get back, correct?

 

[ranmaru]

Nabe replaces Jakestan

Welcome to the game.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Unvote Vote Gargaglione

Can you tell me why here?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I'll read up tonight.

 

[frozenmarsh751]

new as in to the site if you really wanna split hairs

Marshy, you know I'm destroying you when I get back, correct?

 

[#HBC | J]

God dammit, I am smiling way too hard and I'm in class.

Marshy has got that soft spot in my heart.

 

[#HBC | J]

*cough* I mean

Grr, I'm gonna prove my innocence, marshy.

*goes back to class for now*

I may be able to back fully back into the game tonight if I finish my final paper like I schedule myself to. When I am back though, I am coming back swinging hard. (Marshy, longer than that project you had me work on in F&L2. I am in-game annoyed and fired up)

 

[Inglorious Retards]

Can you tell me why here?

Why what?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Nabe replaces Jakestan

Welcome to the game.

Oh, great. Another characterized 'plays null regardless of alignment' player to read.

Unvote

There's no point for me to pressure Nabe as Jakestan, and even though they're still the same slot, they're not the same people. I'm gonna enjoy my 3DS I just bought today and think about this thread later; hopefully J hasn't written too many walls when I get back.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

EBWOP: Unvoting Jakestan doesn't make me feel any less about the slot, I am just giving Nabe a chance.

 

[Nicholas1024]

jakestan replacing out is kind of annoying, especially since I was leaning scum on his slot. That said, it's hard to really make Nabe answer for what his predecessor was thinking, so I'll wait for Nabe's thoughts on the game before doing anything else wrt his slot.

Anyway, I haven't had a ton of time in the past couple of days, but here's my thoughts on recent events.

First off, I'm reading town on ridiculous, Frozenmarsh, and July. While I haven't agreed with everything any particular player has said, their various posts have been well thought out, and look like genuine scum hunting. (I know this is somewhat vague, but I'm trying to get it done fast. If you want me to dig up examples, just ask.)

Honk I'm still pretty sure is town, for the same reasons as before. Not interested in his lynch today.

Gheb/Ryu are both null-leaning town. I think Gheb's off-base with his push onto Honk, but he headed the wagon, and I don't think his vote was at all scummy. Red Ryu I feel like I need to see more of, but I've been pretty fine with him when he has posted.

Badwolf needs to show up, he's vig bait at the moment.

Gorf/J/Kary are all slots I need to reread. They've been around, but I don't have a good handle on them at the moment, so I'll try to get something up about them later.

At the moment, Garg is my #1 scum read. Details incoming with the next post. (Mainly because it's going to be a wall, and I don't want the actual reads list to be lost in the shuffle.)

 

[ranmaru]

Votecount 1.9

frozenmarsh751
July: J
Gorf:
Kary:
Honk: Jakestan, Gargalione
Rid****ulous
Nicholas1024
Gheb_01: Badwolf
J**: FrozenMarsh, July
BadWolf:
Gargaglione: Rid****ulous, Gheb
Nabe: Red Ryu
Red Ruy: Gorf

Not voting:
Nicholas1024, Kary, Honk

Notes:
Nabe replaced Jakestan (if you didn't notice).

*= Currently being replaced
**= V/LA

With 13 players, it takes 7 votes to lynch
The deadline for Day 1 is April 16th, at 11:59 PM.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Why Garg is scum:

PJB summarized the case against Garg pretty well when he said that he was faking contribution and trying to stay safe. Let's start back around page 6, when he didn't find Honk scummy at all.

Yea, I'm not saying that Honk is super towny, but rather that the slot isn't reading scummy to me.
I want to know why you think it's deeper than just soup's petty banter though

I think im gonna reread Honk. Everyone seems to agree that the slot is scummy.
I'll be back with content and stuff.
I personally am finding Honk's hate on jakestan pretty OMGUS though, because JS has been nothing more/less than null right now.

I've gone over the whole "OMGUS" thing in detail before, so I'll leave that be for now. However, note the first line. He's basically saying that he's going to reread Honk because everyone seems to find him scummy.

Alright, I reread Honk, and for the past couple pages, I noticed that pretty much all of Honk's content is an attempt to get JS and Gheb off his back. He's only focusing on directing his content to people who don't like him in attempt to make himself look better or either turn it around on them, specifically with JS, who in my opinion is not scummy.

and overall notable reads at this moment are:
I think both July and Gheb are towny
I don't like frozenmarsh's play, it's not only aggressive, but sidelining
Butt Wolf or whatever and Ryu are absent and therefore null
Kary's weird but null, I don't know how to read his ****
JS is null-town
Gorf is null to me too
and J has gotten a lot of negative attention because of the buddying up of JS, which I agree is odd, but a lot of people claim that to be a way he plays, so I'm gonna wait to formulate more on him.

Vote: Honk
I'm sorry, Honk. At first I gave you the benefit of the doubt because of soup's meta, but your play has become OMGUS and self-preservative and I don't like your slot for that.

I think Honk's a good lynch for D1

The first thing I want to note is that there's actually very little useful information here for town, as there's little reasoning involved here, and almost everyone is null or town. This, by itself, doesn't condemn him. Sometimes you don't have a ton of time or just want to put a quick summary of your stances.

However, the important point here is that the reads list IS pretty useless. Keep that in mind for later on.

The other thing to note is that suddenly Garg finds Honk scummy… because Honk's defending himself. Wait, what?

You're being aggressive in the way you defend yourself and even trying to give bad attention to Jakestan because he doesn't like your slot.
You recently haven't done much else besides that.

Of course, you're going to defend yourself under this circumstance, it's just how anxious you are to turn things around and how you lost focus on everything else.

Yes, Garg thinks Honk is scum entirely because of the "OMGUS" case (when it was far, FAR more legitimate than that), and because he thinks Honk has been defending himself without doing much else.

As far as reasons go, this is crap from a logical standpoint, and considering this happened when the Honk wagon looked most like a viable lynch, the timing is also pretty scummy. However, the REAL nails in the coffin are found with his interactions with PJB. PJB starts calling him out on faking content and his jump onto the Honk wagon, and I've posted a list of his posts since then in the spoiler box below.

Now, none of the below posts are particularly scummy on their own. However, there's one common factor between them all, and that's that ALL of them are either defending himself from PJB, or answering a question someone else directly posed to him. He doesn't push a lynch or give more reasoning behind his reads list or scum hunt, he just keeps defending said reads list and his own intentions! By all means, look through the below and see for yourself.

Spoiler: Replies

Not faking content, I've been in and out of class and been playing almost exclusively on my phone. I haven't really had the time to read on everything in-depth.

I stated that my bad read on Honk is due to the last couple of pages, which occurred substantially later than when I had a null read on him, and that the bad read is because he's being incredibly OMGUS towards Jakestan, and won't stop bickering with Gheb.

I can change my reads, things progress.

Concise =/= vague. I'm expressing what I'm thinking, there's not much ambiguity to that.

Ryu's posts are almost all in the beginning of the game and referring to RVS ****. He hasn't expressed any recent thoughts and he's been inactive for like the last half of the game.

You, on the other hand are more recent and very aggressive, and you chose something really easy to be aggressive about, as it's something others have explicitly stated extensively.
And no, other people's disliking of you wasn't my main reason as to posting that I don't like your play . I just went back and saw only about three posts from you strongly saying that J is scummy with a parrot explanation as to why, and nothing else.

My dislike of frozenmarsh isn't vague either. He would just jump in and confidently say "We need to lynch so and so." or "this person is definitely scum" and then ran back to nothingness, and I don't like that. It's anxious finger-pointing to me, until he comes around with more to say about it.

I have genuinely just been concise and fairly clear with my sentiments.
you definitely weren't alone on the J wagon, several others had expressed discomfort towards J's actions. July and Nich are the only ones who went into extensive detail on it though (and they're the ones I assumed you were parroting).

I still don't like your slot, but I like that you're starting to be more active.

Aight man.
I already explained to you why my readlist isn't ****ty.
I formulated those reads on my own.

As for you, I literally know nothing about where you stand. Your entire play at this very moment is "I don't hate J so much now and now I really dont like Gargaglione (the only player who has really called me out so far)".

My opinions might seem safe due to a generally agreeing consenus, but they were formulated on my own.

For example, I dont recall anyone explicitly stating that july and gheb are town-leans. Even if everyone feels it, I dont see that anyone has said it.

My reasons for disliking honk have mainly to do with omgus, whereas others seem to dislike the slot for other reasons.

And ask yourself this, why would I just randomly hold different stances on people like jakestan when they're really just playing null?

I wasnt gonna push frozenmarsh (or you) yet, because that seems out of the question for D1 so far, so I was gonna wait. Im not gonna push everyone I dislike immediately.

Not really out of the blue, I explained that it was because his interactions with jakestan and gheb had developed into OMGUS and it seemed that Honk was just trying to get attention off their slot and direct it towards jakestan instead

Those were my sincere reads. I hadn't been posting much, so I felt the need to throw in a little catch-up post

I didnt type the "-town" there but you know what i meant. It's null in general and he seems sincere to me.

I obviously meant "I dont just hold random stances" as town or scum, why would I type that I hold random stances ?
I didnt catch that typo

Let me ask you something:
Do you sincerely believe that it's likely that what I was trying to tell you with that post is that my stances are formulated at random rather than logic and reading?
Regardless of alignment, that would be me telling you that i am worthless and that my reads hold no weight.

It's a typo, and i meant to put "don't". I've mostly been playing on my phone, as im doing right now, it's not hard to **** up some of the typing

You'd be dumb to believe that it isn't a typo

Oh and, no, not everyone believes Jakestan is null or townlean.

Not really, because with that misunderstanding from the typo, you have concluded that all those actions of mine have been without real logic or reason behind them other than in appearing active.

I explained my sincere intentions behind my readlist, as it was a catch-up post so that people know where I stand, I explained how I think Honk is playing self-preservative.
And my readlist really isnt so safe. I dont agree with everything going on, and Ive expressed that

Im saying that typo has definitely influenced your stance, even if it's not the largest factor.
Regardless, I've tried multiple times to explain to you the intent behind my actions, and any further explanation would be me repeating myself.

@ rid****ulous
So yea if you dont believe this, what else can I tell you?

Im gonna have to get on a comp to do all the quoting and number post references, so I promise I'll get to you on this. I have to go for now.

That's not a townie trying to scum hunt, this is a scum trying to avoid attention. He's defending himself to the exclusion of all else (which ironically, is something he accused Honk of doing). Here's a couple of choice quotes.

My opinions might seem safe due to a generally agreeing consenus, but they were formulated on my own.

For example, I dont recall anyone explicitly stating that july and gheb are town-leans. Even if everyone feels it, I dont see that anyone has said it.

My reasons for disliking honk have mainly to do with omgus, whereas others seem to dislike the slot for other reasons.

And ask yourself this, why would I just randomly hold different stances on people like jakestan when they're really just playing null?

I wasnt gonna push frozenmarsh (or you) yet, because that seems out of the question for D1 so far, so I was gonna wait. Im not gonna push everyone I dislike immediately.

Note the last paragraph especially. He's not going to push his non-Honk scum reads because they seem "out of the question". Never mind that there's nearly a week until deadline, and that the Honk wagon had stalled out by this point. Never mind that he's not even trying to establish frozen marsh/ridiculous as scummy or asking questions that would help improve his reads. Nope, the lynch is too hard to push, so he's not going to try.

The other thing is the way he deals with the criticism of his reads list. The reads list by itself wasn't scummy, but it WAS useless. However, when it comes under fire, rather than further explain/push some of his reads (The only time he explains reads at all is if you specifically ask about one of them, and even then it's a line or two at most.), he reiterates "My reads are my own". See for yourself.

Not really, because with that misunderstanding from the typo, you have concluded that all those actions of mine have been without real logic or reason behind them other than in appearing active.

I explained my sincere intentions behind my readlist, as it was a catch-up post so that people know where I stand, I explained how I think Honk is playing self-preservative.
And my readlist really isnt so safe. I dont agree with everything going on, and Ive expressed that

Aight man.
I already explained to you why my readlist isn't ****ty.
I formulated those reads on my own.

As for you, I literally know nothing about where you stand. Your entire play at this very moment is "I don't hate J so much now and now I really dont like Gargaglione (the only player who has really called me out so far)".

Those were my sincere reads. I hadn't been posting much, so I felt the need to throw in a little catch-up post

So yeah. Garg has been faking content pretty badly, his play is incredibly safe, he's been pretty much exclusively defending himself and his reads list lately, and his jump on the Honk wagon was pretty scummy. I think four strikes is more than enough to call him out, and I think he's definitely the best choice for a lynch right now.

Vote: Gargaglione

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

no. literally everyone in this game hates j besides bwolf/jake. when was the last time youve seen j even try to lynch scum? he dies today

Honestly I was ****ing thinking this exact thing when I was catching up.

What the **** has j even done?

vote j

Yea his posts just look like J is talking J. He's actually just been chillin by... There's no gusto. He's just here.

Oh look this is me making a post.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I feel like Garg was kinda just backed into a nasty corner at a really crucial time to read em (I don't feel like that original read back was scummy, but it was at a point where he could discuss it). The Riddick interaction makes it seem like a vibrant townie getting at another player with null tells thinking they're scum tells. I feel better about J being scum than Garg, but I will support the wagon if it comes down to it as it stands now. But remember, we do have time (this is me talking knowing the wagon is split), so not getting hasty this weekend is highly appreciated

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

But I WILL admit that Nich's case looks good.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@ ranmaru I'm gonna be V/LA til Sunday morning for a smash tournament and other things.

 

[#HBC | J]

My next post is a wall, just a head's up. It is going to explain a lot what I am doing and especially more because I am being considered for D1 lynch and where I am feeling we should lynch toDay.

 

[#HBC | J]

Oh, and hi, I'm officially back from V/LA.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

And then I learn he was V/LA.

But still for now at least.

 

[#HBC | J]

And then I learn he was V/LA.

But still for now at least.

Dude, I have been V/LA since like Monday/Tuesday.

Get your vote off me. Or at least help me understand why it is there in the first place.