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Tubacabra
DJC will be a lot less intrusive in 2.6
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Oh wow, so it wasn't just me who hates the new DJC, but also Umbreon and Mofo. I showed JCeaser at Pound 5 how I couldn't DJC in PM. I thought I was just a weirdo, but seems like people who played melee Ness mostly agree with me.
I haven't played PM recently, but if he still has the same issues and Peach is still ridiculously OP then I'm just going to stick with her haha.
It's more people that put a ton of time into melee ness that have trouble with the new DJC.
I figured out DJC'ing naturally when I was 8 or 9 years old and playing Smash 64. I cannot DJC in project m at all.
It becomes super natural after a little bit of acclimation. I personally think 2.6's changes have led to the perfect programming. I never unintentionally do a jump I don't mean to anymore.It's still really weird for me. Even the physics are different. A lot of other Ness players from melee have said the same thing. I'd honestly rather have the djc implemented in another way, it just feels so wonky.
Ness should be given the ability to air dodge out of his aerial Psi-Magnet, since it can already kind of be done:Can you hint at any psi magnet changes? I hope they took some of our comments to heart!
Lol who the **** is this kid and why is he posting this inane stuff about Ness? Pray tell, how is magnet like a shine clone, and which 3/4 of that list does Ness already have? I mean, Combos I can see. He's got as good gimpability as many characters (maybe a hair better but I don't see THAT many ness's gimp good players). He's got a good recovery...and he has no stage control.Oh no I have to jump over an obstacle in a game with nairplaning. The pillar part of pk fire either has to be stupidly op or useless. I think it'd 's a bad idea to make it viable only against people who don't know how to di. During a tournament, somebody could just tell your opponent to just cc it and roll away. Ness' kit cannot be balanced with a move that only works against bad players. If they really don't want the pillar to work against good players;I think it'd be pretty easy to give him a projectle that is as good as Falco's and make him a janky version of Falco (combos, gimps, stage control, **** recovery). He has 3 out of the 4 already. The pmbr already gave him a shine clone.
Sorry about the kid language. I call everyone a kid, myself included (I'm 24).Are you saying that the people who you are playing against don't know how to di against pk fire properly? Pk fire is not a reliable move on hit and a move that has that much commitment to it should not only do like 3% damage against somebody who knows how to deal with it.
As long as Ness's recovery involves pkt2 it will always be a bad recovery.
They made psi magnet jump cancel-able and gave it a damage hitbox that allows it to pressure shields, continue combos, and set up for gimps. How is it not similar to shine?
I'm not going to say I'm the best Ness player in the world, but just because I haven't been active for awhile doesn't give you any reason to call me a kid. I'm 23 lol.
I like the PK fire. I do agree with the dair comment though.Can we just all agree that pk fire is janky and needs to be changed, dair needs its old animation back (but slightly sped up), and fair's hitbox should be adjusted to compensate for his momentum boost.
I just really dislike pk fire and think it's really dumb.
His 64 dair is by far one of his biggest improvements. Granted there are pros and cons to both melee/64 dair but 64 dair is soooooooooooooooooooooooo much more versatile!THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN!!
My only gripe with Ness is is ****ty dair.
I can't speak to the power differences (i'm guessing they reduced it because an instant dair that is powerful would be absurd). You are right about the inability to auto cancel it, but honestly, the reason why often times you could win a spacing battle with it is because the mixture of the DJC and the stall on the dair made it a hard move to do the right counterplay. You can still create a stall by doing a Magnet -> dair from high above. It probably will not auto cancel but it isn't bad. By comparison, Ness now has the ability to do rising dairs from the gorund which is an amazing non-commital shield pressure if you get in on the opponent.This isn't his 64 dair. It doesn't have the same range, priority, animation, strength, or last as long (doesn't even use the same foot!). Even though it doesn't have any startup time, you still have to properly position yourself to use it, which takes some time. A really important tactic for Ness in melee was autocancelled djc dair on a shield from above, which you can't do anymore. I used to kill Jigglypuffs with dair -> uair combo all the time. Dair now doesn't send high enough for uair to kill her early. It also has less range so Jigglypuff can easily out prioritize it. Dair was one of his few answers to crouch cancelling in melee, now that it is not as strong, it's cc'able at higher percentages. It feels like a worse move to me. Ness's major problem in melee was starting a combo, not continuing it. This moved got changed from a combo starter to a combo continuer move.
Pk fire is a dumb move right now. It works extremely well on bad players (you can get easy 80% on a person who doesn't know how to DI it) and not that well on people who know how to di. There is enough counterplay to the initial projectile (it's easily jumped over or powershielded) that the pillar proc should allow Ness to combo into another move. He shouldn't be able to chain pk fires though, that's really op. Maybe the game can be programmed so the pillar won't proc if one is already out or he can't throw out another pk fire if one is already out (like Ivysaur's side b). If that's not possible try to mess around with it's startup and endlag so that he can't chain them. Try to make it work like his yo-yo's charging hitboxes that holds people in and combos into the final move. I don't think the pillar should proc on shields either. Pk fire should be the combo starter/spacing tool that he desperately needed.
Nair should also be changed to have more range. Make it so he's spinning around with his yo-yo's or something lol.
I really like the change to the yo-yos charging hitbox. Nice way to counter cc'ing if you are good at spacing it. D-smash isn't as good as u-smash for this cuz the d-smash yoyo tends to move more while charging for me at least.
Its a much better punish (rising dairs, instant DJC dairs) and its a better edge guard (as you can decide to do it on a dime after cutting off an option with a different edgeguard) but its slightly worse in neutral. But don't underestimate short hop approaching dair, magnet stall dair, and others. Its a different move for sure, but it isn't strictly worse and in a lot of regards it is better.You have to be right on top of the opponent to do that kind of thing and it's incredibly risky. Against certain characters you could be setting yourself up for a juggle. If I was that close to their shield I'd rather grab or even d-tilt. Ness' dair has always been a move that lasted a long time, was strong, and had a lot of range. All it needed was to be sped up. In every smash game Ness was in, dair was an important part of his moveset. Even when it was instantaneous in 64 he was still bottom tier. The nert to its range and power is too much. We didn't need this trade off of abilities, it just needed to be straight up buffed. Mewtwo and Yoshi were both better characters than Ness in melee and they just got straight buffs. The dair change doesn't solve any of his problems and it removes the few answers he had to some of his overall problems (lack of range and counters to crouch canceling). He was already decent at shield pressure and shield poking.
While yes, it is easy to be meteor canceled, I disagree with the second part. From my experience (and I will stand corrected if need be) dair has a bit of disjoint on it which, along with its speed, allows it to beat out or in most cases trade with a lot of recovery moves. Recoveries dair will at least trade with (granted proper timing) on a consistent basis off the top of my head:It's really easy to meteor cancel and doesn't have enough range to beat out a lot of recovery moves.
I apologize if I come off as condescending, but maybe you should rethink how you incorporate dair into Ness' kit? Yes, it doesn't have some of the properties of Melee dair, (i.e, not safe on block. I can't think of a SINGLE situation where I would want to dair someone's shield...) but it still has a ton of utility. DJC dair is amazing as a tech chase or punish (esp. when incorporating magnet) as it immediately sets up for a loooot of combo paths and more specifically bair/uair kills at higher percents.You have to be up in somebody's face in order to land it. Why risk doing a djc dair on somebody's shield if I could just grab them? Imagine if they caught you out of your djc with a nair/up-b out of shield or they cc'd it and counterattacked. It's harder to hit with it and it's less rewarding once you've hit with it. Sh dair has to be l-cancelled and has 0 range. I use d-smash more than dair now and his d-smash is pretty situational (not as bad as melee though). His kit already had what the new dair gives him and he lost something he really needs, a combo starter in the neutral position.
The old dair just did more. It could zone, it protected from juggles, it could start combos, continue them, tech chase, edgeguard. It's startup lag was a problem in melee but you just solved one problem of the move and gave it two new ones.Anyway,
While yes, it is easy to be meteor canceled, I disagree with the second part. From my experience (and I will stand corrected if need be) dair has a bit of disjoint on it which, along with its speed, allows it to beat out or in most cases trade with a lot of recovery moves. Recoveries dair will at least trade with (granted proper timing) on a consistent basis off the top of my head:
Spacies
CF/Ganon
Diddy/DK
Mario/Luigi/Peach/Wario/Bowser
Marth/Roy
Lucario/Pika/Zard/Squirtle
Kirby/MK/DDD
Sonic
GnW
ROB
Even if they do meteor cancel you can always double dip (I think that's what tx players call it lol) where you dair them, they cancel, and then you dair them again. Almost always kills, though it is risky.
I apologize if I come off as condescending, but maybe you should rethink how you incorporate dair into Ness' kit? Yes, it doesn't have some of the properties of Melee dair, (i.e, not safe on block. I can't think of a SINGLE situation where I would want to dair someone's shield...) but it still has a ton of utility. DJC dair is amazing as a tech chase or punish (esp. when incorporating magnet) as it immediately sets up for a loooot of combo paths and more specifically bair/uair kills at higher percents.
While it's not a combo starter in neutral, Ness already has plenty of tools for that, those specifically being nair (strong or weakspot, generally weakspot), fair, bair (low %), magnet, pkfire, DA and uair if spaced or timed properly (though rather situational). In any case it works amazing as a combo extender or finisher as it sets up for tech chases or edgeguards. I have some recent footage where I heavily incorporate magnet -> dair both on and offstage and follow up with a kill accordingly (granted at one part my opponent misses the meteor cancel iirc). Idk man, dair is just really good imo. Can start, extend and finish combos, can tech chase, edgeguard and punish well... It works very well into his kit.
I've played melee Ness extensively, talked to Mofo, and played a lot of PM Ness and I just want to debunk some stuff here. First off, Melee Ness could flexibly dair zone a little better than PM Ness due to auto cancel, and I'll give you that. With that said, The magnet + dair adds a lot of zoning and pressure potential on neutral that Ness formerly didn't have. Either way, In melee, dairing from above and abusing auto cancelling was largely a mixup approach that required an opponent to make a mistake rather than being a truly safe and effective move in neutral. It was the stall + the DJC that messed people up in responding, and the autocancel was icing on the cake (good icing, but icing nonetheless).The old dair just did more. It could zone, it protected from juggles, it could start combos, continue them, tech chase, edgeguard. It's startup lag was a problem in melee but you just solved one problem of the move and gave it two new ones.
I've talked with some old school Ness players and they don't like playing p:m Ness because of the dair change (most notably Mofo!!!).