Fire Emblem: The Discussion Thread (keep FE Fates story under spoilertags)

[Mr. Johan]

:D

Conflicted on whether to start on Normal or Hard. I usually start a new game on the easiest difficulty, even if I'm experienced in the series, just so I can get the fullest enjoyment from playing at all difficulties, instead of playing at a harder level first, then get disinterested by playing the easier mode.

 

[camerino1]

Edward is pretty great, but not that good in terms of things besides** growths. I still think Edward is the best myrmidon in the series though

 

[Ussi]

Growth rates don't make a unit good. Just helps him stay/become good

Base stats are everything when you are starting out. Is it worth babying for him for efficiency?

 

[camerino1]

YES IT IS!!!!

(I just like babying units. I don't care about efficiency, as long as I can see a unit turn into something amazing from a fairly shakey base.)

 

[zyth]

hey now no matter how good the growths are...O someone said it.

Edward pays off when he ranks up quite easily, lets see how this guy does. I'm impartial to swords tho so I might not use him the first time

the voice they gave marth in this is pretty awesome

 

[Ussi]

I never like "potential" units. Usually more work than their worth. This is why i always use Shinion over Rolf. However i do abuse for stat caps... I rage reset chapters if i get bad levels with a lot of units.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'll try going to a store and see if they have the game. I didn't try anywhere but Walmart, and Walmart sucks at getting games. Here at least.

They are completely ignorant when a game is released unless it's Black Ops

 

[Raziek]

Edward is pretty great, but not that good in terms of growths. I still think Edward is the best myrmidon in the series though

Wat.

That is literally the only place he is good.

Affinity: Zihark ~= Mia >>>> Edward
Growths: Edward >> Mia > Zihark
Bases: Zihark > Mia >>>>> Edward

CONTEXT: Zihark > Edward = Mia (IE: Compared to the units around them)

Like, literally the only advantage Ed has is his growths. Which don't even really help him in the long run because of BEXP and the fact that Zihark and Mia cap the important **** ANYWAY, he just does it like 5 levels sooner.

Ed is trash in Part 1, Zihark and Mia require infinitely less effort (especially with Transfer bonus), and both of them bring more valuable supports to the table. (Fire/Earth vs. LOLLIGHT)

It's fine to disregard logic and have him be your favorite unit anyway, but he's objectively one of the worst myrmidons because of the impracticality of using him. Raw stats, sure, he's one of the best. However, raw stats don't mean ****.

He's of the Est archetype. Which are usually low-tier in efficiency runs, which is really the only thing that matters when objectively judging a unit.

 

[Delta-cod]

Est archetype?

 

[Raziek]

////

Debut: FE1

Characterized by Late join time, being hilariously underleveled with awful bases, but having godlike growths.

Examples: Nino (7), Ewan (8), Elincia (9)

Granted, Est is sliiiightly inaccurate because he joins at the start of the game, but it's functionally similar because his availability compared to the Greil Mercenaries is poor due to having like 2 chapters in Part 3. Both of the other swordmasters are way ahead of him already, is the point.

 

[Ussi]

I still like Mia more

But Zihark dodges everything and gets adapt so you can do like resolve/wrath on him and solo everything

Mia is still the easiest to use. Zihark is very frail for the first chapter he's back in part 3 compared to Mia. Mia has bess base stats (forget Stefan)

 

[Raziek]

Zihark and Mia are both awesome.

Edward's bad. And he should feel bad.

Also, Zihark really isn't fragile in Part 3. He should have EarthxEarth going with Nolan or Volug, he won't be getting hit by Tigers in 3-6.

 

[Mr. Johan]

I never liked using Zihark. Dunno why.

Same goes for Mia somewhat. There's very few of the Greil Mercenaries that I actually feel compelled to use. Ike, Mist, Soren, Shinon, I think that's it.

And yet I like training and using Edward. Guess it's just all down to preference.

 

[zyth]

Mia is actually pretty fragile when you first get her, goin off gameplay not stats wise, whereas zihark is slower compared to where he should be when you compare him to edward. I dont bother with support stuff cuz i didnt take time to understand it, so i give edward the adept/wrath/vantage combo and he becomes godlike

 

[Ussi]

Zihark and Mia are both awesome.

Edward's bad. And he should feel bad.

Also, Zihark really isn't fragile in Part 3. He should have EarthxEarth going with Nolan or Volug, he won't be getting hit by Tigers in 3-6.

They still have 40-50% chance of hitting. NOT EXACTLY THE BEST ODDS

 

[zyth]

They still have 40-50% chance of hitting. NOT EXACTLY THE BEST ODDS

whereas edward at that point could be as low as 10%

 

[telemaster]

nephenee <3
all about harem runs unless it's haar

 

[Ussi]

I don't like nephenee...

Mainly because Marcia is my goto lance character

 

[Raziek]

whereas edward at that point could be as low as 10%

Would you like to explain how?

Because I can smell the BS from here.

@Ussi: Why aren't you in a bush?

And yeah, Mia is kinda fragile when she starts, that's why I gave Zihark the edge on bases. Context yo.

 

[Mr. Johan]

"Now to extirpate these brutes."

Just by that line and her appearance, and already Miriel is my favorite character in Awakening. I don't care if her growths are bad, I'm using her in every chapter.

 

[Raziek]

She's actually quite good offensively. I just hate her design.

SHE WILL BE NAUGHT BUT A BROOD MARE.

 

[Ussi]

Edward isn't 10% lol

I always send Nolan up + support up and everyone else to the right. Nolan can tank 2 tigers with travos.

I'm playing hard mode, supported him with Laura. Its a lack of 15 avoid but its still pretty good.

 

[Mr. Johan]

How can you not like the witch design? D:

I'm completely sold on her rhetoric. How do you make characters marry again? I'm pairing My Unit with her, no question.

 

[Raziek]

Get them to S level support and they marry.

@Ussi: I do transfer ZiharkxNolan to the left into the river, everyone else to the right. Transfer JillxVolug tanking on that side.

I am also talking Hard mode, of course.

 

[zyth]

If Ed is one of the only 3 chars i used in part 1 with nolan support can you see it now?

 

[Raziek]

In normal MAYBE.

At best Ed is like.... 20-1, and his stats at that point are sliiiightly under nonTransfer Zihark.

A with Nolan gives him 21 avoid, B gives 15, compared to Zihark's B Nolan giving 30.

It's essentially impossible for him to have more avoid than Zihark in hard mode, even if Zihark is base level.

 

[zyth]

no....I had Ed at 20-6 with BEXP after caped stats with a forged steel sword with low wt. He had more than enough to double hit the cats, which sothe sometimes couldnt do. I raised(babied) him well

 

[Raziek]

Ok so this is where I tell you that the situation you describe literally cannot happen in an efficiency run and devoting that kind of resources to Zihark would produce a better result anyway.

 

[zyth]

I wasnt doing an efficiency run. I was just playing the game with my fav units

 

[Raziek]

I know, but you interjected on a discussion of Ussi and I that was pertaining to an efficiency run. That is why I answered in context.

Anyone can be godlike by that point because you can boss abuse 1-8 or whichever level it is that Muarim, Vika and Tormod show up.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

The store only had enough copies of the game to cover those that preordered...

I had an easier time finding Halo 2 during it's launch

 

[Mr. Johan]

Boss abusing at 1-7 is the best.

My last runthrough I spent 4 hours boss abusing and getting everyone to third tier. Just because.

 

[zyth]

at no point before 2 of ur posts ago did anyone mention an efficiency run

 

[Delta-cod]

////

Debut: FE1

Characterized by Late join time, being hilariously underleveled with awful bases, but having godlike growths.

Examples: Nino (7), Ewan (8), Elincia (9)

Granted, Est is sliiiightly inaccurate because he joins at the start of the game, but it's functionally similar because his availability compared to the Greil Mercenaries is poor due to having like 2 chapters in Part 3. Both of the other swordmasters are way ahead of him already, is the point.

+1 to character archetype knowledge. Thanks.

Also, zyth, discussing the worth of a character usually takes place within the context of efficiency.

 

[Raziek]

I also mentioned it, albeit rather lightly in post 2248.

And yeah, we don't usually discuss unit comparisons outside of that for exactly the reason that any unit can become great through resets, boss abuse, favouritism, etc.

That is why efficiency is assumed, because it is the competitive standard under which units are measured.

 

[Raziek]

You familiar with the Jagen and Ogma archetypes as well, Delta?

I'm happy to teach if people are willing to learn.

Oh right, not D-Games. Combine posts if you really care, mods.

 

[Delta-cod]

Nope. Only familiar with Jeigan and the opposite of Jeigan (the proper name of which escapes me. >_<).

 

[telemaster]

please enlighten

 

[Raziek]

I'll whip a pretty post up when I get home, 15 minutes or so!

 

[Mr. Johan]

Isn't the Ogma archetype the one where a unit available early game is amazing at the start and continues to stay amazing throughout?

I'm taking too long to get through Awakening, lol. The music's captivated me. Kellam's also cool.