Fire and Lightning Mafia - Game Over!!!

[#HBC | J]

I knew that was why you needed a case from me.

You have nothing else or any good reason to call me scum besides something you hope to find in my case that you can manipulate to acquire my ML.

Hmm...time to go another route with things.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ooooooooooooooor my case could remain that you have no case.

You're backing out of it after promising it for days. I've even asked for the cliff notes in just a list of reasons and you couldn't even provide that. I maintain that you have no case Past a smear campaign. Otherwise, you would've posted it by now.

Lynch him.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

J, make a bet with me. If I flip town, I get to pick your custom title for a month. If I flip scum, you get my title and avatar for a month. I will also change my sig to "J's Baby Girl" until I get an artist who will put it with an appropriate signature image. It will stay that way until March.

 

[#HBC | J]

Well what do I get when I flip town?

Also I don't have a custom title because I haven't been a premium member in a long while. ^^"

Man if this is you and me going against each other in a TvT debate. I'm going to cry so much. T.T

But you have to be scum....you just have to.....

Rajam/Raz hold one scum in between them. Kanty/Soupa are not scum. Xonar, if he is scum, deserves to win IMO. Swiss is clear. I'm town. You must be scum.

*I have a list of qualms that'll be posted shortly*

 

[#HBC | J]

Ryker, let's play hypothetical games for the moment.

You do acquire my lynch, I flip town. Who is your biggest scum-read? Is Xonar back on the table for you or is it really between Raz/Rajam for scummies?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'll buy you premium if I think of something cute, but for now, good night.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Rajam then Raz. Rajam's recent posts outshine even Raz's 180.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

**** dammit J, but Rajam/Raz can be a scum team and I die if you aren't scum (and vice versa I guess).

Vote Raz

His 180 from me to you is worse than Rajam. I was afraid of his flip with his awkward connection to me.

****, ****, ****, shiiiiiiiiiiit. There goes my shot at lynching you today even if I change my mind. AT LEAST one scum lies in Raz/Rajam. Then J. Haven't done the math. If we lose there, coasting Soup wins his second F&L.

 

[#HBC | J]

We both die if either one of us flip town. Therefore town will really be SoL.

I was leaning towards Rajam over Raz.

Ryker, RG style it out till toMorrow possibly? I'm not as confidant as I was against you earlier.

 

[#HBC | J]

Let me rephrase that, I'm becoming more confidant in my Raz/Rajam scum-read than Ryker but he's still on my mind as possible scum.

 

[#HBC | J]

Screw it. >.<" Hopefully I don't regret this in the morning when I wake up

Unvote
Vote: Raziek

To hell and back we go.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Screw it. >.<" Hopefully I don't regret this in the morning when I wake up

Unvote
Vote: Raziek

To hell and back we go.

Didn't I do this on Day1 somewhere else recently.

More in depth on Raz over Rajam tomorrow when I'm on a computer, but know that I hate most every post he has with my name in it. Rajam isn't as high because I'm forced to entertain the possibility that he really is that bad. No past experience with him has given me reason to think otherwise.

 

[Kantrip]

I haven't read Ryker VS J in full, but from what I recall it spans days, I don't like how easy this mutual end to it was. There's at least one scum between these two.

@Brosuke: Was there ever anything that stopped Ryker vs J from being SvS?

@Swiss: If only one of those two are scum, which is it?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Ryker has more votes than J, yet there is no case against him?

That's hardly fair.

Vote: J

You're not taking your own views into account?

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

We're finally getting raz?

Good.

Vote: Raz

 

[Rajam]

Didn't I do this on Day1 somewhere else recently.

More in depth on Raz over Rajam tomorrow when I'm on a computer, but know that I hate most every post he has with my name in it. Rajam isn't as high because I'm forced to entertain the possibility that he really is that bad. No past experience with him has given me reason to think otherwise.

Don't try to discredit my case. You yet have to present a case which doesn't rely on OMGUS, and have been evading presenting a case with johns after johns since several days. Trying to gain early town points is scummy, because its main focus is aiming at keeping away the pressure from you, not finding scum. Your "case" on kuz was non-existant because you never got kuz to explain himself about the maths and it was a relative weak point, but based on that issue and interaction you aimed at gaining early town points

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'm thinking while writing, so yeah, let's do this!

There's at least one scum between these two.

This I agree with.

My general lines;

• Ryker is setting up a double mislynch with J > Raz/Raj////?
• Kantrip is possibly setting one up now with J/Ryker twice////?
• I still want to see J's case, some of the points he made had merit
• Ryker switches off J while he has been constantly saying J has not been genuine
• Razieks unvote looks real dirty, that's true, but the elaboration is yet to come

I now know that J drops pressure like it's a melting stone this game, but that doesn't make him all the more town when he does it this time. I had to re-ask his questions on multiple occasions. Don't like him dropping pressure that often at all.

To clear something up; I said I agree with going J because that allows Ryker to put more legit pressure on there. Ryker's pressure is amazing, so yeah.

I'm running numbers here, and I can see where you two are going with lynching Raz/Rajam, because 'there's a scum for sure in there'. Well, Kantrip just joined THAT equation. I could be tempted to join in, but not for now.

I think Ryker is most likely scum out of the two, but I know that he isn't aligned with Rajam (see earlier post), which makes me hesitant to jump on that boat.

I'd rather lynch Ryker + J because I'm more sure that there's scum between the two. Seriously, what made you guys disregard this?
That said I will carefully reevaluate the playerlist after the first flip.


List time! (no order within colors)
1. Swiss
2. brosuke
12. Dark_Horse

3. Raziek

4. Ryker
5. J
10. Rajam
13. Kantrip

Top scum pairings for me:

Ryker/Kantrip
J/Rajam

Wanna see more from Ryker's RazCase, Swiss, Kantrip and Raziek himself (long list jezus).

I'm up for going Kantrip/Raj or Ryker/J for double lynches if we want to find surefire scum. Preferably the first pairing. If we wanna catch all of the scum, and go out on a limb, we're gonna go Ryker/Kantrip.
This paragraph depicts a work in progress. (read: Raziek and Kantrip might change this opinion when they start talking more today)


Q&A:

Q: Why the sudden change of heart on Soups slot?
A: I don't like Soup's behavior this day at all. Kantrip could also be J's partner here. It's often seen that a player puts his partner within his lynch list, as to take credit for it once his partner is dead. Wanna see more, but he's a good bet for now.

Q: Why aren't you voting yet?
A: I can't start a wagon while a Raz one is going, simple is that. Getting info out of Raz is useful. I also don't know the votecount, so I'm not gonna join as to prevent mislynches.

thought while writing (importanté):
I think Rajam isn't aligned with Ryker. I think Ryker isn't aligned with J. You guys think Rajam isn't aligned with Raziek. What about lynching Rajam? Because in the case he flips scum I have a scumJ and a townRyker, and vice versa if he flips town. His lynch gives us (me) information.

So yeah after y'all are done with Raz and if he turns out to be not all that mafia we're going with Rajam. Fact.

Q: [Your question here]
A: [My answer here]

Hope this is readable.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

as to prevent quicklynches* (on Raz)

I think I have some more errors in here. Gonna get some breakfast now and back to work. It looks a bit rushed because it is.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

So yeah list of lynch candidates:

Rajam (+Kantrip)
Ryker (+J)

That's that. If anything isn't clear just ask me. I'll probably be VLA for a while now since it's new years eve here pretty much.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Don't try to discredit my case. You yet have to present a case which doesn't rely on OMGUS, and have been evading presenting a case with johns after johns since several days. Trying to gain early town points is scummy, because its main focus is aiming at keeping away the pressure from you, not finding scum. Your "case" on kuz was non-existant because you never got kuz to explain himself about the maths and it was a relative weak point, but based on that issue and interaction you aimed at gaining early town points

Your case was a poor excuse to place a vote.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

First off, Xonar, my case on J has always and forever been his lack of reasoning in voting me. He replaced into a useless slot and didn't really have to do anything but take Gorf's suicide letter and push a mislynch. The problem was when he started pushing one on me with no charges. It's all he's really given me time to deal with.

Kantrip, I campaigned for J's lynch an entire day before swinging hard and tearing the train off the track with these two hands. Kuz came in and put the wheels back on it, but J flipped town and I was correct. This is certainly not unprecedented.

Tell me about Kantrip/Soup, Xonar.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I've got some things written down, but it's late and I'll get to it tomorrow. (late night mafia isn't my forte)

Reread a few times and more sure now on Kantrip/Ryker. Not entirely sure yet, but more sure.

Still down with Rajam as number 1 lynch.

In fact;
vote Rajam

Swiss thinks he's scum, Raz thinks it iirc?, Ryker thinks it, I think it. How J handles Rajam hasn't helped Rajam either.

This will net town a guaranteed scum, and possibly an entire scumteam.

I think Rajam isn't aligned with Ryker. I think Ryker isn't aligned with J. You guys think Rajam isn't aligned with Raziek. What about lynching Rajam? Because in the case he flips scum I have a scumJ and a townRyker, and vice versa if he flips town.

I'll reply to that post tomorrow, Ryker. Got some things in store for ya.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Also, I note everyone who voiced suspicion just to let you guys see the support. Even if the supporters are possible scummers. I want to appeal to everyone, even those who think Ryker is town or Raz is town.

just a clarification

 

[Raziek]

You *******s, I don't have a comp. this switch is grimy as **** and is entirely justified by survival motivations from Ryker and J. There is no case on me.

I'm there entirely there by PoE? Someone explain to me why we wouldn't lynch one of Ryker or J? This sudden switch is going to result in a mislynch.

**** I wish my computer was working.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Disregard. Sorry my drunken stooper led me to believe I was alive.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

OHHHH **** wait im not alive in this game.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Bro, to me I actually see raj as being ryker's possible scumbud, as that sloppy vote seems to be a bus, especially since ryker was getting in an argument with J.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You think Raz was giving Ryker a way out of the argument?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Oh misread. I was talking about his unvote later. I'm waiting for explanation on the first vote.

Was talking about Raz's unvote later, though.

Because I voiced suspicion of J earlier, Ryker pretty much had the upper hand. Ryker was winning the debate, an escape route at that time was unnecessary. So, no need to let Ryker suspect Raz just to get out of that situation, as Ryker could easily have went after Rajam.

That's why I don't see Ryker+Raziek. Ryker wouldn't hop on Raziek if they'd have been scumbuddies. That would unnecessarily sacrifice Raziek.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

First off, Xonar, my case on J has always and forever been his lack of reasoning in voting me. He replaced into a useless slot and didn't really have to do anything but take Gorf's suicide letter and push a mislynch. The problem was when he started pushing one on me with no charges. It's all he's really given me time to deal with.

So why are you on Raziek then? Your case on J is the exact same as it was back then, and your switch to Raz needs explanation, specifically why you choose him over J.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

On to Soup/Kantrip, let's take a look at a few of Soup's posts this day (assuming he is Ryker's partner):

As far as i remember, J replaced joey, i thought. I've read J and he just seems incredibly odd to me, i'm not sure about Ryker and him actually pinning Gord as a fire member (albeit still being wrong about KevinM) but i'll have to mull it. I didn't really understand the Circus pressure, why he was still an omnious figure, everything he did seemed to have intent, i'm upset that he was outted and evidently died.

Starts with J suspicion. How convenient! His buddy Ryker had that too. But wait, he couldn't ignore that guy. He says he suspects Ryker in a really weird and indirect way. At least, that's how I interpreted it.

I was surprised to see Gorf flip fire, and what he did was a maytyr attempt that seemed to prove some worth, right now my reads are still fairly solid but i'm leaning town on Raziek due to yesterday; i'm going to go ISO J for the moment.

"Just call Raziek town so there's some distance when I attack Raziek" - Ryker
At least, that's what my reaching eyes see. Consider this a possibility, but I can definitely see it.

Just wanted to add things that piqued most of my interest or i felt like i could comment on them without leaving in blank spots, my reads really don't stagnate besides the people who died, i had town on you, town on Kuz, town on KevMo (doh), town on DH, null on circus, null on Raziek (but sort of leaning-town due to the last day?), null-lean town on Rajam (which can happen to change), and a still scum read on the Joey slot, which is also J.

Hey... Where the f is Ryker on this read list? Easy way to not have to leave a connection to your partner.

J asking people's opinion is incredibly null, he tends to rely on it more as scum though, townJ, to me, isn't afraid to take risks and doesn't sit back casually commenting on things with PW Gifs and walls of text with a lot "ummm i don't know" and other things of the like; to say.

Continuing suspicion of J, without much of a hard stance.

Well, that's everything for J. Let's look at Kantrip! I don't have a lot to go on here, but I'll manage.
I'm going to assume that a scumKantrip will leave his partner in his scum/null readlist instead of town list. Safe assumption, imo.

Ryker has more votes than J, yet there is no case against him?

That's hardly fair.

Vote: J

Speaks for itself. Bull**** reason to throw down a vote AND a bull**** reason to semi-support Ryker.

I haven't read Ryker VS J in full, but from what I recall it spans days, I don't like how easy this mutual end to it was. There's at least one scum between these two.

Here we go. Two-scum scum list. See how this works out? Wants to claim town points once a scum gets lynched, but doesn't want his buddy to get lynched TODAY, so he votes J, and says that there's at least one scum.


It lines up to me.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Well, that's everything for Soupamario*.

 

[Kantrip]

I literally voted J to even the wagons. I want to read before I decide on any lynch.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Read and give me things. Now.

 

[Kantrip]

I'm far too tired and groggy to interpret anything at this moment

And I'm on an ipod

 

[#HBC | J]

I don't really agree to the connection case of Ryker+Kanty. It's a really huge reach on pretty much all of the points. I had a really huge town read on Soupa with re-reading his posts *though Kanty's posts as of late are less to be desired*.

I also don't get most of your connections because they are just well not substantiated with concrete things.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Why did you drop Ryker? What made your read on Raj/Raz stronger than that on Ryker?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

On an iPod at my grandmother's.

Soup's slot is the one I find least likely to flip scum. It's not an impossibility, but in this game with my other scum reads, I just need him to be town or I'm **** out of luck. Did the math yesterday.

 

[#HBC | J]

I didn't drop Ryker but more or less he dropped to the back-burner.

Looking at both Raz'/Rajam's posts, they seem to be much more scum-intent driven than town intent. I agree to the notion Ryker had of Dummy or Scummy with Rajam with a lot of his posts. He has been labeling people as scum this entire game but not following up on it at all. He also likes to ask questions but doesn't do much of anything with them. Plus the fact that he's just there is still is not helping him at all.

Raz is scum for just coasting through this entire game and the only post that really had a lot of content in it was the post that both you and I forced out of him earlier. He hasn't scum-hunted and he hasn't done anything at all. Raz has nothing noticeable to claim for. His voting history toDay with the 180 on Ryker when the opportunity arose and then the 180 on me when the opportunity arose reeks. It smells of opportunistic scum trying to get on the good side of the argument of who is more likely to get lynched.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Ryker, when you at a computer bro?

I could write it off to paranoia, but not sure still. It would still come down to Rajam being scum with either of you. I don't see how Rajam is not the play.

J, we can always get Raz tomorrow. Rajam is the play today.
Same for Ryker and DH.