Fire and Lightning Mafia - Game Over!!!

[#HBC | ѕoup]

J I have seen genuine scumhunting from, to the point where I think if he was scum, he would've just copied parts of other people's cases. What I don't like, for example, about him is that he always asks other people's opinion. That, and the exchange between him and Ryker wasn't a good one for both.
In Rykers case, it really depends on what's happening today. I liked his D1 entrance, I thought it was typically townRyker. His absence wasn't disturbing if you consider it was V/LA. His posts on D2 weren't satisfying at all though.

I may not be the best person to analyze things, but i can catch intent from a mile away, it's one of my positive factors in my play, i just need to learn to actually be willing to type and read things, which seem to bore me as i usually just ride on coat-tails of gut feelings and the intent i'm getting from their posts.

J asking people's opinion is incredibly null, he tends to rely on it more as scum though, townJ, to me, isn't afraid to take risks and doesn't sit back casually commenting on things with PW Gifs and walls of text with a lot "ummm i don't know" and other things of the like; to say.

The most deciding factor for me with J is how he's going to take his stance on DH, which i feel he's about to warm up to, i'd like to hear how he's possibly town/possibly scum.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You suck at catching intent REALLY reading posts if you don't know what J's stance on DH is yet.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

J asking people's opinion is incredibly null, he tends to rely on it more as scum though, townJ, to me, isn't afraid to take risks and doesn't sit back casually commenting on things with PW Gifs and walls of text with a lot "ummm i don't know" and other things of the like; to say.

...So how has J's play been this game? He's been "ummm I don't know" or taking risks?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

You suck at catching intent REALLY reading posts if you don't know what J's stance on DH is yet.

skimming does that.

even right now i don't have much motivation to read and actually not skim, it's part a mixture of not having motivation and not having the attention-span to care.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

"Should i go read so i look more towny and actually give content or bull**** my way through this game eventually ending up as a ML?"

"nah, **** that, let's bull**** some more."

basically how i feel.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Kantrip is added to the replacement list

Forgot the mention this.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Can't Kantrip replace Soupa before I turn him into a Crimson Eagle?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

He can if you want, i don't have much interest and i'm sure Kantrip will have more motivation than me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Vote J

Work today. Almost certainly needs to be a lynch between me and J. Will try to add more later.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

If not, I'm off tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | J]

Jeezus fastest night ever.

Vote: Ryker

@Soupa: Can you give a definite decision on replacing out or not? It's kind of important especially if you are not going to care. >.>

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Raz:

Give me thoughts on Ryker vs J. This is something you seem to have completely flown over.

 

[Raziek]

vote: Ryker

Explanations tomorrow when I feel like it. Boxing day sales, **** yeah.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Soup:

Mind bringing up some walls of text that were full of "ummm, I don't know" from J?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Things people owe me:

- Rajam talking about his extra target that he had his eyes on
- J had a question for me


wish the list was longer

 

[Rajam]

vote: Ryker

I keep my previous points on Ryker. Even if he had legit johns for going V/LA D1, doesn't change that he tried to gain town points at the beginning of that Day. He mainly was on kuz because of the maths thing at the beginning and over exaggerated this discussion, and after that he started to do the questions aimed at being seen as town as a consequence of that discussion:

Mhm, dat cold cut.

Anyway, read on me as I'm sitting here with the most to talk about at the moment?

Man, dat challenge? Aimed at me? Didn't work out so well in U'Tricked. How I about I see your challenge and raise you a call-out.

I will say, right now, that you will not make it through this phase if you continue giving half stances and not explaining your ****.



Really?

HEY GORF!

Am I not giving anything yet? I feel I've been doing plenty of providing for this point in the game.

Sorry pal, but I can and will. Or you could stop me, which would make this day one even more fun.

After that, he started to tunnel Gorf and KevM (mostly Gorf). When he came back for D2 he didn't make callouts for Soup, Raz or Dooms who did nothing D1 but he calls on Circus for that same reason, and he also ignores DH's "town slip" from the beginning of the game...

Gord can die too, but we need not lynch him.

Circus has done nothing that I can recall and I expect better from him. He can go. Dork Horse can go simply because I do not like him.

I've only skimmed this game and it didn't stick really well. I JUST finished reading Lost. I'm sure as hell not rereading this game tonight.

Scenarios:
If Ryker flips town, then J is scum. I really think Ryker vs J is TvS. Besides how Dooms did nothing on D1, There is one thing that bothers me and it was a little before Gorf claimed Mafia: J presented a case against Ryker, and Ryker never addressed it. Neither did J pushed that case and Ryker never answered it. This is what makes me think the interaction is TvS.

If Ryker is scum (most likely scenario), I think his partner is Raziek. I'm specially aware about Raziek because of how he never was on Ryker and started to mention suspicion on him after Circus claimed ccop and his results. At that point Lightning should've realized KevM was Fire, and hence they knew they'd gain NKill control and Circus was the obv choice, so I'm reluctant to check interactions after Circus' claim because it was a good chance to create distancing. Another thing that bothers me about Raziek is that Ryker in that same quote of above attacked Circus for not doing anything and that he expected more from him, but doesn't mention Raziek; I can more or less understand Dooms and Soup not being there because they never do anything anyways, but not Raziek.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Rajam, I take it you're caught up.

There is one thing that bothers me and it was a little before Gorf claimed Mafia: J presented a case against Ryker, and Ryker never addressed it. Neither did J pushed that case and Ryker never answered it. This is what makes me think the interaction is TvS.

How does this hint toward TvS?

 

[Rajam]

These is when J shifted onto Ryker. J did this change from nothing, which makes me think the accusation is legit, and that both Ryker and J aren't scum.

I am reading through the game again once I found some posts of Ryker near the beginning and I just got sucked into reading again.



Found this gem and was chuckling how it's kind of funny he decided to refer to Gord as Fire mafia as his scum-pick and Gord is claiming to be Fire Mafia as well. Idk, may hold weight but may just be coincidence so I just found it as a funny quote if Ryker does end up being lightning mafia.

Still reading.

Looking at these posts by Circus, it seems Circus had a bit of a hate towards Ryker in which should follow with a Circus tunnel to hell thingy. He was pulling up some decent things on Ryker that point to him being as scum but then Xonar asks Circus to remove his vote from Ryker and Circus just does this and follows Ryker. Huge red flags for me on Circus' part that I over-looked. A majority of Circus' posts during D1 near the beginning only revolve around Ryker, but Ryker does nothing for Circus at all and Circus does not follow up on Ryker.

This reminds me a lot of mine and Ryker's connection in FF9 mafia where if I were to ever adresse Ryker in the thread he would tell me later that he was ignoring me and that it was for the better.

Circus is also known for having a little tunnel syndrome but something is just really rubbing me the wrong way with his switch to KevinM so easily on D1. Circus and Ryker begin to drop off the face of the earth for the rest of the day though I believe Ryker was V/LA but I can't be bothered to go digging for that right now. Circus on the other hand is just not around.

Vote: Ryker
FoS: Circus

I've changed my mind. I want one of these two dead toDay please. ^^

Rajam, I take it you're caught up.


How does this hint toward TvS?

I think both aren't scum, since J did the case on Ryker before Circus claims, and J did the case from something he found in a re-read. Ryker ignored this, and J instead of pressuring further, started to move slightly on Circus until, summed with the rest of the votes and pressure, provoked Circus claim. Dooms was my main suspicion D1 too, which is why I think J vs Ryker is TvS.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

...You think both aren't scum.
So you think both are town.
Yet you think J vs Ryker is TvS
and you're voting for Ryker...

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

While saying J is your main scum-read.

 

[Rajam]

No, Ryker is my main scum read. That's why I'm voting him

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Ryker and J are both town.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

both Ryker and J aren't scum.

I think both aren't scum

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ryker vs J is TvS (Doom was main scum read, which is why J vs Ryker is TvS [thus J is the scum])
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dooms was my main suspicion D1 too, which is why I think J vs Ryker is TvS.

I really think Ryker vs J is TvS.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


But the vote is on Ryker.

vote: Ryker

Elaborate on EVERYTHING.

 

[#HBC | J]

Xonar, my question towards you was before Gorf claimed who his partner was. However, since Fire mafia is now gone, question is gone. ^^"

 

[Rajam]

Ryker and J are both town.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ryker vs J is TvS (Doom was main scum read, which is why J vs Ryker is TvS [thus J is the scum])
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


But the vote is on Ryker.




Elaborate on EVERYTHING.

¿? I have suspcion on both but I think they aren't scum partners => they are either TvS or TvT => I'm saying it's TvS because with how they've played I hardly think both are town. I suspect Ryker the most hence my vote is on him

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Oh you mean you don't think that they're a scumteam.

Right.

Still bothered by this;

Dooms was my main suspicion D1 too, which is why I think J vs Ryker is TvS.

When you say Ryker is most suspicious. Doesn't line up. Elaborate, now.


And then there's this;

Things people owe me:

- Rajam talking about his extra target that he had his eyes on

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Rajam is probably J's scummate. His most recent string of posts and justification for being on my wagon are grody as hell and super weak.

I keep my previous points on Ryker. Even if he had legit johns for going V/LA D1, doesn't change that he tried to gain town points at the beginning of that Day. He mainly was on kuz because of the maths thing at the beginning and over exaggerated this discussion, and after that he started to do the questions aimed at being seen as town as a consequence of that discussion:

So, please tell me, what is wrong with gaining town points at the beginning of the game.

Math thing? I wasn't on Kuz for a math thing, I was on Kuz for being scummy as **** and avoiding elaboration on anything.

Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with me wanting to be seen as town.

After that, he started to tunnel Gorf and KevM (mostly Gorf). When he came back for D2 he didn't make callouts for Soup, Raz or Dooms who did nothing D1 but he calls on Circus for that same reason, and he also ignores DH's "town slip" from the beginning of the game...

I never tunneled Gorf of Day 1. I didn't even want to lynch Kevin Day 1.

I STILL haven't seen DH's "town slip." If it was such an issue for you, then why didn't you EVER bring it to my attention?



You've got no ammo and are fishing for a reason to be voting me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

J HAS NO CASE! HE NEVER HAS!

I've requested it multiple times and he has YET to provide us with the reasons I am scum. He's trying to beat me over the head with null tells which is like trying to knock a shark unconscious with a Nerf bat. He's intentionally not giving me anything to show that he is full of ****.

 

[#HBC | J]

I have no case? Hardly.

Ryker, where exactly is your case on me? You continue to boast how I'm scum and have nothing to show for it, but these little things you keep saying that aren't even true.

Also for another fact, we've brought up DH's town-slip multiple times. Why haven't you seen it?

 

[#HBC | J]

I never tunneled Gorf of Day 1.

This is a lie. The only thing Ryker was notable for D1 was his sheer tunnel-head on Gorf.

 

[#HBC | J]

This is a lie. The only thing Ryker was notable for D1 was his sheer tunnel-head on Gorf.

Proof is here:

[Collapse=Ryker on Gorf]

Gorf & Kuz are one mafia team. I'll refer to them as Fire for now. You're transparent, get at me.

No, the difference is, it's not math. There is no right or wrong. It's all different values and I have to pick what's right and wrong.


Okay, so I'm misrepresenting townies right now? You're implying that I'm not applying my judgement to the matter at hand, so please point that out.

According to you, I am either town looking for scum or I am scum looking to push a mislynch. Make that judgement. What am I trying to do?



You're mad I'm on your scummate.

Uncap Hip

Vote Gorf

I would've thought that Gorf wouldn't sit there with his finger up his bum. Doesn't match up with the Gorf I know. Your answer was pretty inconsequential other than as something to look back at if you contradict it without good reason.

This post, however, is so radically different from Town Gorf, it's not funny. You wouldn't be inhibiting me from doing what it is I do. I've talked to you enough to know that this isn't how you feel about the game. What you are doing, however, is backing Kuz. I find that interesting.



Really? Then is it your intention to make me see the error of my ways so I will stop playing in this fashion.

The thing is, I wouldn't care if it wasn't affecting my scumhunting. You've put the game in a place where now, I've gotta deal with the fact that things will probably be surrounding getting around (what will most likely continue to be) your blistering questions.

And this is different from most games with me in it how..........?



I don't believe you would ever try and get me to stop doing something at the start of Day 1 as town if you had a town read on me like you have stated (or even a null). You can burn.

Urge to reference ongoing games is rising.

It's flimsy. I told you it was a dead end push on Xonar from KevMo, amirite? Those at the beginning of early day often imply......? Distancing, that's it.

Dislike KevMo's need to insist on standing in the back of the class talking with the emo kid rather than give me the stances I want on the people I want to know about. His "draft a strong late game" really is no excuse not to give me them at all.

You and Kuz are definitely easier for me to call scum at this point.

No, not really. There's a reason I'm not pushing to have KevMo die. You asked me for a number three hours into Day 1, of course it's not based on much. Are you ********?

You've never been unresponsive to the way I play.

I'll talk about Kuz in a minute.

You are saying that I am doing something I am not. I have not done that. You're misrepresenting me.

Xonar, vote Gorf for me.

Kuz, I'm actually willing to get off your back as this is eerily similar to another game I could mention. Answer people when they ask you for stances instead of giving me this halfway **** that you can go back on or not answering at all.

Gorf, no, he's probably scum.

[/collapse]

So you weren't tunneling Gorf the entire day? Bunch of not true words because once you put your vote on Gorf you left it there the entire day and even came into the next day praising the fact that he was incapped to get rid of him.

I also noticed that Ryker never adressed Circus or Kuzi's cases on him. Instead he just ignored them and continued to coast through the game which he has done until his debate with myself.

 

[#HBC | J]

So I re-read through D1 and I've changed some of my nulls around.

DH = Town
Soupa = Towny

Raz/Rajam are the two nulls I'd peg for being scum. Simply because I do not see DH/Soupa's slot being scum whatsoever anymore. Raz/Rajam on the other hand I can definetely see moreso.

J/Xonar/Swiss are town town town in my book. =D

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I have no case? Hardly.

Ryker, where exactly is your case on me? You continue to boast how I'm scum and have nothing to show for it, but these little things you keep saying that aren't even true.

Also for another fact, we've brought up DH's town-slip multiple times. Why haven't you seen it?

You still haven't brought it up here.

My case on you stems heavily from the opportunistic attack here after Gorf/Kevin flip and Kuz being cleared. You come in off of Joey's play and capitalize on the fire mafia team imploding and the momentum left to you by Gorf's kamikaze.

If I have to, I WILL reread and form a traditional case citing examples, but in the mean time, I have requested multiple times that you provide an actual list of grievances so I can be responded to instead of smeared to death. You've failed to do so and are still avoiding it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Holy ****. You even went through the thread grabbing quotes from me and haven't posted a case. What the hell, man?

 

[#HBC | J]

Opportunistic attack on you?! I'm appalled purely because I was one of the first people to actually express concerns on you Ryker and go through with wanting to have you lynched when I was pushing Circus.

Also, no offense, but what type of case you want? You want me to go through a grab quotes saying "Ryker is scummy in here." that I know you will either; A.) Ignore or B.) Berate with insulting words. I don't have the energy to do as such to a player who ignores cases and has never really made cases for his own scum-picks.

I really have the right of mind to not even come up with a "case" to give you a taste of your own medicine but I'll see what I can do. ~.~

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

It's flimsy. I told you it was a dead end push on Xonar from KevMo, amirite? Those at the beginning of early day often imply......? Distancing, that's it.

Dislike KevMo's need to insist on standing in the back of the class talking with the emo kid rather than give me the stances I want on the people I want to know about. His "draft a strong late game" really is no excuse not to give me them at all.

You and Kuz are definitely easier for me to call scum at this point.

This is in your quote wall and is the easiest example. It includes Gorf, but is far from tunneling. It shows that I was definitely still watching other slots. This is an explanation of why I disliked KevMo that adds up. It only mentions Gorf and Kuz at the end showing that they were still my bigger scum picks.

 

[#HBC | J]

However, to be fair, you've been alluding since yesterDay that you were coming up with a case against me and that was the pure reason we wanted to use all the days of last Day phase. Yet I'm marking it up to holiday shenanigans, but still it's been a while since you promised something/anything against me.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Kuz, I'm actually willing to get off your back as this is eerily similar to another game I could mention. Answer people when they ask you for stances instead of giving me this halfway **** that you can go back on or not answering at all.

Gorf, no, he's probably scum.

This is the last post in your quote wall. It shows I was still worried about obtaining the correct read. I'm referencing DGamesia here (the kingmaker game where I butted heads with Kuz and ended up doing more damage than good). Kuz didn't take me up on it, so that read never changed.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

You also give an incorrect sample of my posts. You only quote those that pertain to me wanting Gorf lynched. You do it as if there is something dreadfully wrong with pursuing your scum read. You are cherry picking your posts in order to misrepresent me as tunneling one player to the exclusion of other things, but even then, there's enough IN YOUR POST, to prove that's not the case.

J, you are straight up lying about what I've done this game.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

And, yes, I ignored Circus and Kuz. I wasn't caught up and they were wrong with not nearly enough support to lynch me. Low on my list of priorities.

 

[#HBC | J]

Ryker, show to everyone what else you did D1 that did not include Gorf/Aruging with Kuzi over Math/Or just pure nothingness in your posts.

Tell us what else you did with evidence to show you did.

You ignored Circus/Kuzi because "they were wrong and not nearly enough support". Really?