Fire and Lightning Mafia - Game Over!!!

[Raziek]

Well, this is interesting again. Will get back to this thread later tonight.

 

[#HBC | J]

Why do people keep saying Circus is going to die toNight? The only way he will die is if KevinM is Fire mafia with Gord. If he dies as town or Lightning, then Circus will be around still nontheless.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

If both mafs crosscap, the player who's crosscap'd dies.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Hey guys, this might be reaching, but....

Anyone remember how ryker called gorf/someone else fire mafia, and how that was obvious? Why would he call them fire mafia and not just scum?

It's because he's lightning mafia. If he thinkins gord is scum, yet he knows gord isn't lightning mafia, then he thinks gord must be fire mafia.

 

[#HBC | J]

DH, we went over that scenario. =P It's still good to lynch KevinM based on the odds of success.

Can you add your vote to KevinM in the mean time?

 

[KevinM]

People still following Xonar after his plan of keeping Ryker alive basically proves he's not playing the game to win for town?

"By not lynching Ryker and having Gord incap"

Gord is dead at the end of the day, he's trying to keep Ryker alive for another day.. it's blatantly scummy play zzzzzzz.

 

[Raziek]

Comp cop has basically made the decision easy. Kevin dies today.

J, Zonie, do either of you have reads you explicitly want from me?

 

[#HBC | J]

Raz, I want reads on Soupa/Rajam/DH/Ryker/KevinM.

I don't even know what KevinM is saying in that last post. It's like he hasn't even read why we are lynching him. @_@

 

[Rajam]

Not fully caught up yet but I'm making a break so I'll go with what has called my attention:

Actually **** it I think losing two townies puts at a really ****ty advantage to win this game, no time for gambits.





I haven't liked Joey since D1 but I relied on Kuz's meta to let him stick around without pushing on him.. Welp now he's going completely towards what Kuz said, conveniently after he had already flown under the radar just as people were getting suspicious.

Xonar, you're the homie, I'm gonna need you to stop tunneling if you're gonna actually scumhunt, Circus has you blinded and you haven't even looked at this Joey case that's piling up in front of you once.

Joey is scum, I would stake my **** on it.

So you're gonna go with Kuz's meta again when last time it was wrong when he asked you to trust on it?

You would stake your **** on it but you're not even voting?

10this. KevinM's case isn't even a case. He's centering it about the thing kuz said that Dooms would replace out as scum... Dooms was scummy on D1 based on his pop-in-pop-out posts with no content. I don't recall you attacking Dooms D1 though (I barely remember some contribution from you, for example, that you were on Brosuke for the role PM thing, then on Circus for inactivity?, and then finally jumped on July). What happened with Brosuke and Circus? Now that J replaced Dooms my suspicion on the player slot has dropped to null; I can see he's contributing but since he inherited Dooms' role he started as a scum read to me by default. Anyways KevM don't forget my question here about what happened with Brosuke and Circus

Alright so I decided to withhold from posting until I had fully caught up and now I finally am so yay on that note. Very peculiar game to read through instead of skim because I thought I had knew somewhat what was going on but really I was not that close from a skim-read.

So this uncap+voting thing is a new concept for me but as I have been noticing with the players this game, people seem to be throwing their uncap around a lot more than using their votes. I don't get why people aren't using their votes a bit more but yesterDay seemed to be very odd with the way it ended in a somewhat unfair July lynch. I didn't think that was actually going to happen but then it built steam since no one could agree to anything. The person pushing the lynch with such gusto, Kuzi, was a bit astonishing because he should be able to read July a bit better than that, especially with marking her as his biggest scum-read. Though he has said this before and, in fact, done it to myself in which he said I would 100% flip scum, and I've flipped town. Heh. The fact July flipped town, is making me feel null on Kuzi because I want him back from being from banned to see what exactly he means by figuring out the scum-team.

Kuzi for me only gets an IGMEOU since it's a read I'm gonna be going back and forth in my head.

That paragraph came a bit sloppy so apologies for that.

Based on who is between the uncap's today, I want to keep Xonar>Gord. I don't necessarily have a scum read on Gord but I have this really strong feeling of Xonar being town that I almost don't wanna question because I am reading his posts insanely town and he is trying to do things in the thread that are appearing extremely towny to me. People seem to dislike him based on his style of keeping his cards to himself but none of the cases really, for me, have basically showcased to show how this guy is scummy. *shrug*

Uncap: Brosuke

Sorry Gord duder, I just like Bro more than you right now. ^^"

Rajam/Raz/DH/Soupa do not really mark an impression upon me besides leans at the current time. ('cept DH, he's completely null at the moment)

Ryker, not seeing scum and it seems he has been busy a lot of the time with V/LA so when people are trying to say that he is just apathetic scum which fits his meta, it seems like stretching to find a point to have Ryker look like scum at the current time. I don't see myself heading down lynching Ryker with a case against him.

KevinM is one of my only scum-reads at the current time. Here are some reasons I find myself a little questioning when I look at Kevin.

• His hop onto July was very bandwagony when he never even really explained why he had such a change of heart.
• There was the fact that he was pushing Circus really hard and for some paranoia reason that everyone was writing Circus as town too easily (which I did not find the case to be *However I do like Circus as town because when he does post, I find myself agreeing with him but his activity is less to be desired for*)
• His attack on Brosuke was not one that was thought through well enough and the transition of going from Bro to Circus seems odd considering he just dropped it to go to Circus. By odd, I mean scummy in the sense of his attack on Bro doesn't seem that credible and it also makes his Circus case seem weaker since it lacked anything substantial to condemn Circus.

**Question for Kuzi, why did you not call out Kevin on this but call Ryker out on his dropping of his Gord case?**

• The points against him(Bro) were shallow and so are the similar points against Circus and now myself.
• He has hardly contributed to the thread in terms of scum-hunting but has been here to cover his butt when the time comes and also likes to make himself known that he is following someone but he does not go about trying to petition a wagon on his scum-pick or scum-hunt on them to help his case at all. He is throwing out scum-picks and leaving them out to dry which I do not like.
• If I could draw attention to this post here, there is an unsettling amount of over-defensiveness which is consistent to quite a few reactions to other people's pushes on KevinM *one that comes to mind is the Ryker push*. He also likes to bring up meta, primarily his own, which is a great hook into my next point.
• Kevin then tries to use someone else's meta to try and substantiate a scum-read on Myself which is just not looking very well thought. He says he has not really liked My slot since D1 but he never really brought this feeling to light, whatsoever. His reasoning is based on what someone else has said and not on anything new or anything he has brought to light himself by his on individual hands. Someone brought this point up earlier *IIRC it was Ryker and then Kuzi* where Kevin has not been getting his hands dirty in anything of his own will.
• He says "Joey(my slot) is scum, I would stake my **** on it." yet as Xonor points out: No vote. Let me add onto this point; There is no vote, no pressure, no asking questioning, no directing people to lynch my slot, absolutely nothing at all. The major question is why?

So I want KevinM to be lynched out of all the other people at the current time.

Vote: KevinM

KevinM, I want a better case on myself if you plan to pursue me more.
Make a stance on both Kuzi and Ryker, cite exactly why you feel as such.
You seem to dislike Brosuke, why have you not uncapped Gord then?
I want you to back up your suspicions on Circus and Bro in more detail; I don't want a post saying that you have because since I am asking this, I'd really be appreciative to have an answer to this.
Who is your top scum-pick?
If you had to lynch one of Raz/Soupa/Rajam, who would it be and why?

I also fully support this case on KevM. Basically I don't really care if we lynch Ryker or KevM toDay. I picked Ryker for the sake of choosing someone (actually, In case of a tie I'll always vote for Ryker to die )

Rajam, I have a question for you. Why did you pick Ryker out of KevinM/Kuzi/Ryker when your reasoning against Ryker is complete WIFOM where you think you know Ryker would have picked both Kuzi and Gord to Incap. You are calling KevinM for WIFOM being bad and it seems like a scum-tell to you yet you are doing it yourself.

I also believe I have seen more from you about KevinM then Ryker so can you explain why it isn't flip-flopped because right now it seems backwards with how you are talking.

More or less answered in the previous quote. I don't think it's wifom since I think wifom is something where, after all possible analysis and gathering of current evidence, both opposing options have about the same chance of being the right answer (that is, no conclusive answer can be withdrawn). The uncaps of D1 and now D2 plus the behaviors of both Ryker and KevM makes me believe the chances of them being scum are a lot better than 50~50.

Also for the record, I was pushing on both Ryker and KevM equally and I think I was on Ryker slightly harder.

---

Not liking Raziek. Not saying his scumpicks at the beginning of D2 when it was obvious people was gonna ask him due to few contribution D1 is stalling.

J is null. Circus too due to inactivity. Not sure about Soupamario, after all I think he's leaning town despite the string of posts showing him being not-assertive that I quoted earlier D2

I'll read kuz' QT later and say what I think of it

Liking Brosuke and Dark Horse

I still like my vote where it is, but I'll join a KevM lynch toDay if it comes to it.

---

And now...

Okay. Here goes:

I'm mafia. Not only am I mafia, but I'm Fire mafia. Why do I reveal this? Cuz shiz I'm getting incapped cuz god knows Xonar isn't, might as well take somebody down from the other maf while I can. I am MUCH more in favor of town winning than the other mafia, and that's because I feel that if THEY win and I lose, then wtf man... Now, I revealed myself as Fire for another reason on top of that... Kuz is CONFIRM'D TOWN after this post. You ready? Fire mafia targeted Hipster N0, and Ice mafia targeted Kuz N0. So unless you want to believe that Kuz is my scummate, which none of you do because it's not true, he is CONFIRM'D TOWN. Anyway, back to the case against Ryker. Kuz' case against Ryker absolutely holds merit, in that Ryker did what he needed to do in order to gain town points, and disappeared afterward. IT IS NOT A TOWN TELL THAT HE SCUM HUNTED AND PINNED SCUM. He caught me in the scum tell of hating on his scum hunting, he is absolutely correct, and after the game ends you can see where I s*** bricks when he said that. But after he (correctly) scumhunted, he faded into the coasting game, before AND after his V/LA. The fact of the matter is, he's done NOTHING this game except drill on me and Kuz. His suspicion of KevM is totally empty, and probably because it's an easy person to place suspicion on, with him being a popular scum candidate. And his lolread on Circus, the inactive? SHIZ, what the eff is that? His post have been nothing but tunneling me and Kuz, while using that to get by throughout all of the game. If you let him live through toDay, don't. LYNCH HIM. As far as his scummate goes, I wouldn't be surprised if it were any of Circus, Raziek or even maybe even Xonar (but that's probz a reach), and I will make sure I use all of the time I have toDay to work with some of my town reads in order to get this through. BUT WE'RE LYNCHING RYKER.

Yea. Get mindf***ed.

wtf is this... first:

uncap: Brosuke

I'll be reading the implications of this claim later. Just want to ask the rest of the players one question:

Do you think lynching Gorf toDay is a good idea? Personally I don't, but if someone thinks somehow it is the best course of action, please speak. If this claim is indeed true (?) and Gorf is Fire-Mafia, I think we should aim now to lynch someone scummy but that we think it's not Gorf's partner; I think we should aim to lynch a Lightning-Mafia. If we reduce the situation to 1 Fire and 1 Lightning, they'll most likely get desperate and try to incap the opposing Mafia, which is the best possible situation for town toNight

Ryker is clearly not Gorf's partner and somehow I support Gorf here that we should lynch Ryker toDay. More reasons to love my current vote

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Rajam is like the fat kid trying to catch the ice cream truck full of all of us playing this game. No matter how fast he runs, or how often we slow down or stop, he'll never get his fudgesicle.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Alright i guess a lot of **** went down here, i'm on my phone so content will be little but i'm catching up.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Hey guys, this might be reaching, but....

Anyone remember how ryker called gorf/someone else fire mafia, and how that was obvious? Why would he call them fire mafia and not just scum?

It's because he's lightning mafia. If he thinkins gord is scum, yet he knows gord isn't lightning mafia, then he thinks gord must be fire mafia.

You're the reason I say things like that. Thank you for helping me reassure myself of my superiority.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

People still following Xonar after his plan of keeping Ryker alive basically proves he's not playing the game to win for town?

"By not lynching Ryker and having Gord incap"

Gord is dead at the end of the day, he's trying to keep Ryker alive for another day.. it's blatantly scummy play zzzzzzz.

Gorf has a partner, dumb ****.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Rajam is like the fat kid trying to catch the ice cream truck full of all of us playing this game. No matter how fast he runs, or how often we slow down or stop, he'll never get his fudgesicle.

Yeah, but on the subject,

J, do you think Rajam is capable of faking his constant "catch-up" status?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Circus, if you're alive tonight, compare me and J baby.

 

[Raziek]

Raz, I want reads on Soupa/Rajam/DH/Ryker/KevinM.

I don't even know what KevinM is saying in that last post. It's like he hasn't even read why we are lynching him. @_@

Bleh, you picked a weird list.

Null/Null/Null(Slight Town)/Town/Scum.

Has Soup even posted today outside of his most recent post?

Rajam needs to be current.

Don't care about Dork Horse, but has raised no red flags.

Ryker and KevinM are simple.

Kevin and I are opposite alignments, Kevin must be scum, because I'm VT.

If Kevin is scum, then there's a high chance Ryker is Town. I'm not reading scum Ryker that badly given the circumstances, so unless Gorf is Ryker's partner and this is all a hilarious gambit, I think he's Town.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

People still following Xonar after his plan of keeping Ryker alive basically proves he's not playing the game to win for town?

"By not lynching Ryker and having Gord incap"

Gord is dead at the end of the day, he's trying to keep Ryker alive for another day.. it's blatantly scummy play zzzzzzz.

Hey lookie at this post:

This is what going to happen.

KeviM is lynched.

-He flips town;
Raz and Ryker are scum. As Gorf will have died, we will have killed a scumteam once we killed them both.

-He flips scum;
We have killed (2) scum. And we know both Raz and Ryker are not on KeviM's team. (assuming KeviM is fire, that would've been obvious)

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Either way we will kill scum.

Should you flip town, then 3 scum down in total.
Should you flip scum, then 2 scum down in total.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Do you think lynching Gorf toDay is a good idea? Personally I don't, but if someone thinks somehow it is the best course of action, please speak. If this claim is indeed true (?) and Gorf is Fire-Mafia, I think we should aim now to lynch someone scummy but that we think it's not Gorf's partner; I think we should aim to lynch a Lightning-Mafia. If we reduce the situation to 1 Fire and 1 Lightning, they'll most likely get desperate and try to incap the opposing Mafia, which is the best possible situation for town toNight.

I would like you to be shown to brosukes "If kevinM's town/scum" post.

And also, quit running severely behind.

You're the reason I say things like that. Thank you for helping me reassure myself of my superiority.

This makes no sense.

"I superior to you! I claim that two people are fire mafia, even though, if I were town, I wouldn't know how they could be fire mafia! When someone brings it up, I'll dodge it entirely!"

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Comp cop has basically made the decision easy. Kevin dies today.

J, Zonie, do either of you have reads you explicitly want from me?

Who are you looking at if KeviM flips Lightning?
Who are you looking at if KeviM flips Fire?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'm gonna ask you to make a case on the persons you choose tomorrow, depending on the flip.

 

[Raziek]

Who are you looking at if KeviM flips Lightning?
Who are you looking at if KeviM flips Fire?

If Kev flips Lightning, that presents the possibility that Ryker is Gord's Fire partner.

If Kev flips Fire, then FIre is eliminated, and it's still possible Ryker is scum.

However, I'm not committing to any case-making, especially since the night could bring significant information if Kevin is Fire, since Circus will survive as a result of only one team being able to incap him.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

If one team survives they get total control of the night kill.

And I'm not accepting "Ryker" for both answers. Dig into this game, give me educated picks and explain them.

 

[Raziek]

Can't you just let me be Town and do nothing but watch and strike when the time is right?

 

[Raziek]

There was supposed to be a sadface at the end.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Can't you just let me be Town and do nothing but watch and strike when the time is right?

No.

Your answer is far from satisfying, you're not Town enough in my eyes and your watching has given us nothing so far. There's no guarantee it ever will either.

You're gonna be useful whether you're scum or not.

 

[Raziek]

Then hear this clearly: I am NOT outright committing to make a case on someone. I refuse to do so, as my opinions may change.

I will give you reads, but asking me to commit to making a case is nonsense and I will not do so.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Get on with the reads.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Who are you looking at if KeviM flips Lightning?
Who are you looking at if KeviM flips Fire?

This is what I'm talking about.

 

[Raziek]

1. th3kuzinator
2. brosuke
3. Raziek
4. Ryker
5. JO_OEY J
6. Gordito
7. KevinM
8. Hipster Samurai (Sworddancer/Gheb_01)
9. July
10. Rajam
11. Circus - Town Comparison Cop, Un CC'd
12. Dark_Horse
13. Soupamario

If Kevin flips Fire we're looking for two Lightning. If Kevin flips Lightning, One Fire, One Lightning.

If he's Fire, then Gord/Ryker gambit is out, I would be looking at Kuz/Laundry and either Rajam or Soup.

If he's Lightning, then I'd be looking at Ryker, Kuz/Laundry, Rajam, Soup.

I regret that I can't be more specific but Rajam and Soup are still null to me and are effectively there by PoE.

 

[Raziek]

Gah, you're making me question my read on Ryker. I'm not reading scum on him right now, but I can't deny the possibility of it.

 

[#HBC | J]

Ryker, I wouldn't know if Rajam is capable of faking his catch ups but I am getting they are sincere at the current time and I don't see scum motivation from those posts at all. seems like his an individual who just really needs to get caught up.

Raz, when asked by me for a read on Ryker you said flatly town an then in the next few posts asked by Bro you change Ryker to null or scum dependant on Kevin's flip. Can you explain this change of heart please?

Circus, I agree with Ryker actually and compare one of Ryker/Raz with one of Me/Bro.

 

[Raziek]

I'm conflicted, J. I'm not reading Scum Ryker, and found it unlikely that Kevin/Ryker is two scum of opposing factions, but it's not impossible.

Like, that would only make sense to me if it was Gord/Ryker and it was a very elaborate gambit.

Kuz is the other main person I'm expecting to be scum, and while Ryker/Kuz and Gord/Kevin is possible, it doesn't feel right.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I would like you to be shown to brosukes "If kevinM's town/scum" post.

And also, quit running severely behind.


This makes no sense.

"I superior to you! I claim that two people are fire mafia, even though, if I were town, I wouldn't know how they could be fire mafia! When someone brings it up, I'll dodge it entirely!"

I am also apparently better than you at grammar.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

If he's Fire, then Gord/Ryker gambit is out, I would be looking at Kuz/Laundry and either Rajam or Soup.

Do you think Ryker is more town should KeviM flip fire?

If he's Lightning, then I'd be looking at Ryker, Kuz/Laundry, Rajam, Soup.

How so?
Who would be Gorf's partner?
Who would be KeviM's partner?

Why are you so doubtful of Laundry when Kuz posted the QT?


Get into this game more. I want elaboration on every answer you're giving. I'm gonna come back to this post in some way at the start of tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

ninja'd hard.

 

[Raziek]

If you believe Kuz's QT is genuine you're either naive or haven't played with Kuz much.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

My questions stand.

Also, you're implying that it is, in fact, not genuine. How sure are you of that?

 

[Raziek]

If Kevin flips Fire, I think Ryker is more Town, yes.

If Kevin is Lightning, Gorf's partner is either Ryker on a balls deep gambit, (I think they would try this with Gorf being ****ed.) or one of my nulls. (Rajam/Soup)

Kevin's partner would be Kuz/Laundry as a result, which makes sense given Kuz's push towards July when the Kevin wagon was building steam.

It's not that I'm sure the QT is fake, per se.... it's more that I'm sure it doesn't impact what I think of him. Kuz would do that as scum, Kuz would do this as Town. I'm choosing not to get involved in WIFOM regarding his motivations for posting it.

I want to evaluate that slot based on Kuz's play and Laundry's play in the coming days.

 

[Raziek]

Doing a lot of thinking and examining Gord's play pre-Circus claim, since he's been silent since. Give me some time.