Fire and Lightning Mafia - Game Over!!!

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Kuzi, do you take what Ryker does beginning of the game with more importance than what he does later game, or does it not matter with you? what does the interaction between him and Gord strike you off as?

 

[th3kuzinator]

It doesn't matter. Ill read Ryker as scum when he's scum and vice-versa. Strikes me as TvS.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Oh, you think Gorf is scum? Do tell.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Not yet, and might not even today, i feel kinda ****ty i outted my PoE anyways, but that's where i would be fine with the lynch going, but the most likely thing that's going to happen is that July is gonna get the noose and HipSam will bite the incap, i think.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Ill be back to see if theres anything i missed in a minute, almost at the comp.

 

[th3kuzinator]

That's okay Soup I pretty much have the scumteam pinned anyway.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Wait I can't tell am I scum or not?

Looks like... not...? Or like a maybe?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

K IM REALLY NOT HERE I HAVE HOMEwORK I GOTTA DO AND LIMITED TIME PEACE FOR NOW STARTING... NOW!

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Guess how I blocked that caps lock ?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Are you talking to me?

I said you v ryker was TvS and I'm pretty sure its clear I have a scumread on Ryker.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Soup .

 

[th3kuzinator]

Yeah you seem to be in Soup's PoE list.

Be afraid.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

soup you are scum why am i scum i think you are scum because you think i am scum and if people think i am scum i think they are scum and if i think people are scum then they are scum because my rule is GOD.

Or I can do the silly Soup thing.

Kuz town. HipSam town. Dark Horse town. Rajam town. Gorf town. Ruy town. Tandora town. Bardull town. Marshy town.

Which one's funnier?

 

[KevinM]

So wait why are we letting people ride the Circus is town wagon when he hasn't done anything to warrent a strong town read?

I'm fine with lynching July since her D1 so far has been concentrating on an already dead and/or painted target but a huge FoS on people that were trying to tell me Circus was obv town and or town vibed when he had a total of >10 posts in the game and more then half were garbage.

No @ Soup just because my vote is now on July does not mean I think Xonar is free gravy townie. I'm still slightly suspicious but the way he's played the rest of D1 after that has come out as way more townie Xonar and something I can live with going into D2.

Kuz, thoughts on Circus?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Since when was there a townCircus following?

 

[KevinM]

Since multiple people have said he's town? Or in their lists have him as town to null

 

[th3kuzinator]

I don't even remember one person saying they had a a town read on Circus all game except for Xonar's wifom.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Kevin: If you could have the lynch of your choice toDay, who would it be and why?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Just a reminder: we need two more July votes in the next 18~ hours. I won't have computer access most of the day so I'm expecting someone to make sure this lynch gets finalized. There has been discussion toDay, just make sure we lynch.

 

[Hipster Samurai]

So wait why are we letting people ride the Circus is town wagon when he hasn't done anything to warrent a strong town read?

I'm fine with lynching July since her D1 so far has been concentrating on an already dead and/or painted target but a huge FoS on people that were trying to tell me Circus was obv town and or town vibed when he had a total of >10 posts in the game and more then half were garbage.

Amount of truth and win in these two paragraphs alone is overwhelming.

Kuz, which scumteam do you think you've figured out yet? Cuz atm I'm pretty convinced that July / Circus is one of them [though I'll talk about that in depth with Sworddancer before the Day phase is over]. If you think you have the other team figured out then you should probably become vocal about it toDay in case you're not surviving.

I'm also open to the idea of lynching Raziek toDay.

 

[Hipster Samurai]

Also, since the mafia can't effectively kill one townie straight up I'm going to go ahead and say that I have strong townie reads on DH and recently on Gorf also. KevinM I have as town as well but I'd be a lot more concerned about that one for obvious reasons. Soup seems as inconsistent as ever but his meta just screams town to me.

July / Circus
Raziek
-
Rajam / Ryker
Brosuke
Joey
Kuz
-
KevMo
Soup / Gorf
DH

 

[Hipster Samurai]

These are all Gheb's opinions btw

 

[Raziek]

Assuming that top part is scum, I'd like to know how I'm in there given that I've been absent for most of the game.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Reread Gorf. Looked at him wrong throughout the day.

Reread Ryker. Still town in my book, but if he really keeps on being inactiveguy then I'm down. Apathetic Ryker is usually scumRyker, true. But is this apathetic or busy?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Kuz your ego is REALLY annoying to read. jezus f

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Kuz do you trust others to win this game for you?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Vote count incoming along with a prod to Ryker.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Note that I think Kuz is town but I kinda wanted to look into why he nagged me, so here it is, what nags me about Kuz.

Hipster is scum because he is.

Genuine scumhunting? Nope.
He basically went in the day thinking Hip is scum me thinks and built his thoughts off of that, which is why he flopped off of Hip when he realized he was looking at him wrong.

Kuzi leaning town; that's as hard of a stance on Kuz as I can give right now.

July on Kuz. Looks way careful.

Hey Ryker. Gorf isn't scum. Neither are you. Please focus on something relevant to finding scum.

First time Kuz flops from scum to town on Ryker.

Disregarding all posts that came after this, explain to me how you formed your semi-town read on my play up until this point. Give me the logic behind your decision.

He does this more often. Ask people how they formed a town read on him. "Hey man, what should I keep on doing to stay town in your eyes?"

Yes. I intentionally kept my cards close to my chest to see how other discussion would play out if I wasn't a part of it.

This is worse retconning than FF7. You actually did frequently gave out reads and you said you were really busy. Not that you intentionally kept **** close and wanted to 'see how discussion plays out'.

Joey, vote July for me. Whether it be because you think I'm town or you just want to be a bro, trust me on this.

So, not calling DH off because that would ruin various tells, but you do call Joey off, which is to you a 'hard to stomach town read'. Contradictory.

And, yes, I'm formally announcing this now since its going to come as a shock to so many of you: Ryker is scum. Like I'm not even kind of sure, I'm dead sure. He's directly under July in terms of scuminess but I find the July lynch to be a more realistic lynch and equally likely to flip scum.

Changing from RykerTown to RykerScum again!

Don't even bother. I came to a realization a little while ago and I think I understand where I went wrong in reading your slot.

And another change in reads.


The thing I'm saying with these read changes is that by changing this often he basically gives himself an excuse to change. "It's not weird that I changed, I just reread the thread like I did with all these changes." You know what I'm saying? Kinda like painting the emergency exit to look like a normal door.

That's that.

 

[Rajam]

Up to #520

I didn't like KevinM's entry and his attack on Xonar. At all. I agreed with Ryker he was sidelining a null tell and keeping his feet out of important matters. Upon a re-read it was jut that that bugged me, really, and I kind of agree with Gorf that he's noticed some things that I don't think scum would want to bring up. I also didn't really like his vote on Circus but thats a side note. I do like some of his recent posts and all in all I'm probably dead null on him as of now. There have been things that I really disliked but little bits and pieces that have redeemed him. Deadline acceptable lynch but not something I would push for.

And, yes, I'm formally announcing this now since its going to come as a shock to so many of you: Ryker is scum. Like I'm not even kind of sure, I'm dead sure. He's directly under July in terms of scuminess but I find the July lynch to be a more realistic lynch and equally likely to flip scum.

I actually wasn't planning to reveal this toDay since I wanted to survive through the Night and get him toMorrow, but I fear both scum might incap me toNight when July flips scum which would be bad.

So, yes, in the event that I get killed and Ryker is still alive, I'm expecting some capable townie to get that done for me. Gorf, I'm directly looking at you.

Why Ryker is Scum:

- Comes into the game just trying to play up his reputation and control town. Town Ryker will do this, yes, but he usually has some sort of purpose for doing so. This being to push a particular lynch or to save someone from one. In this instance it was literally him just trying to draw attention to himself with useless ultimatums.

- In an attempt to produce content, asks random questions that he never follows up on. If Ryker truly wanted to get the game moving he would have some goal in mind. Here, he literally was just spewing whatever came to mind to make it look like he was playing pro-town. I think it was KevM that said that he was trying to equate post count to town status, and that's something I heavily agree with.

- I agree with Gheb and KevM that his pushes have been bad and his play is merely to present you with an appearance of actively scumhunting while, in reality, he has done nothing.

- I also agree with Circus that his comments coming into the phase about him being surprised that he wasn't incapped were odd. He would have had no reason to say that as town and it did indeed look like him trying to spin a null tell as a town one which was very off.




-Makes a completely atrocious case against Gorf that relies on meta more than anything else. Something so bad and illogical that I simply can't see townRyker making it. After he tries to "persuade" others onto that lynch he leaves with a "we out." Doesn't come back to push the Gorf lynch for all he's worth. This is a scumtell. When Ryker pushes players in such a fashion he will keep pressure up until his target his dead or his targets says something that warrants his unvote.

In this situation his vote is still on Gorf and is useless. He's not doing anything to push Gorf nor is he doing anything to feel out his alignment. He's happy sitting on a wagon that's going nowhere with a bad case. TownRyker would never do this. Ever.

"Oh but Kuz, Ryker is V/LA! We can't judge him for not doing anything!"

Bull**** we can't. As soon as the initial Gorf push subsided he has literally just sat there an commented on non-important material. This all being before he was swamped with whatever he was swamped with. He is just poking at random things in the thread without pushing his vehement scumpick at all. Again, he's happy to let his vote sit on someone who's going nowhere, IE, he's happy to end this day with town not doing what he wants.

These cases are much better than July's, specially the case on Ryker: the guy gained some town points and left. I like Circus' point that Ryker tried to pass a null tell as a town tell, and kuz' point that Ryker's vote on Gorf accomplished nothing.

I still think that Dooms is the best option to lynch this D1, but I wouldn't mind lynching Ryker at this point.

kuz, up to this point I don't know why your case on July is stronger than the one on Ryker here. Both use some degree meta certainly, but Ryker's case has some solid points, meanwhile your case on July is basically "I played bad and July didn't push it". I don't see July scum. Ryker scum is absolutely factible

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Vote count incoming along with a prod to Ryker.

Prod your ***.

I've got work again today.

I simply have to make myself play.

 

[KevinM]

@Kuz

assuming I know July is going to get lynched by a competent town I either take my gut instinct and lynch circus or lynch Joey because I'm 100% positive he's not going to contribute to this game and I would have to spend the entire game asking dumb or scum.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

[yt]LISmPmdUhYA[/yt]
It is day 1.5 Vote Count (7/13) Deadline is December 13th 11:59PM CST

1. th3kuzinator [0]
2. brosuke [1] Gorf,
3. Raziek [0]
4. Ryker [0]
5. Dooms [2] Rajam, Dark Horse,
6. Gorf [1] Ryker,
7. KevinM [3] Brosuke, Circus, July,
8. Hipster Samurai (Sworddancer/Gheb_01) [0]
9. July [5] Hipster Samurai, th3kuzinator, Dooms, KevinM, Raziek,
10. Rajam [0]
11. Circus [1] Soupamario,
12. Dark_Horse [0]
13. Soupamario [0]

Not Voting:

~

Incap count (most votes)

Th3Kuzinator [9] July, KevinM, Gorf, Circus, th3kuzinator, Dooms, Raziek, Brosuke, Soupamario,
Hipster Samurai [4] Dark Horse, Hipster Samurai, Ryker, Rajam,

Not Voting:

 

[Rajam]

Up to #560

Scum:
Dooms: The guy has done nothing, and he has deffinitely had the chance to do something. It's surprising how low amount of pressure he has received overall. He needs to die toDay.

Ryker: Agreed with Circus' and kuz' cases mostly after noticing how Ryker left when he gained town points early on the game
Soupamario: Not doing anything, besides his long introduction post, wich wasn't much of a thing either in terms of scumhunting.
Brosuke: I've pointed several things throughout the game, like the "I lied" picture for a read, plus no explaining much his stances after several callouts

Null
Raziek: Not liking how after a long inactivity he came with few words
Gorf: Sorta like Soupamario, but Gorf has done slightly better overall.
KevM: Needs to address some more stuff
July: Her defense against kuz was meh, just like her attack on KevM as well.
kuz: Only thing I don't like is his attack on July. Seems more of a TvT if anything, but he's too much committed onto it. Case on Ryker is much better
Circus: Liked his case on Ryker but his inactivity prevents me from putting him as more townie

Town
Hipster
Dark Horse

Rajam

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

VOTE JuLY.

IF I COME BACK ON THE COMP AND SHE AINT LYNCHED IMMA PUT IT IN DRIVE.

CAPS LOCK WOOT WOOT!

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Brosuke i feel like you're so intent on keeping your town ryker read. Do you notice the contradiction in the post where you said you reread em? Same contradiction to raziek. It feels like you guys just really wanna not lynch em for the sake of not lynching em...

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'm kinda busy but because I promised I relooked into Kuz's case on July. I can really see the merit in the fact that she hasn't done shiz beside talk with HipSam. Then again, I'm trusting Kuz's meta on this one.

@gorf, you got it backwards. I like Ryker so I don't want to lynch him.
This irks me though:

Prod your ***.

I've got work again today.

I simply have to make myself play.

Ryu how long is twilight if i hammer now?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Aaaand he's gone. Guess we got time then

vote: July

 

[July]

Hmm kk, probably should have procrastinated by checking on this instead of watching hours of How I Met Your Mother but c'est la vie.

I really am/was town, but I got dragged into that conflict with HipSam which I didn't expect and that took most of my attention. I would have had to coast the next roughly two weeks anyways thanks to finals so all in all I wasn't a bad lynch, but I will say a couple things about my wagon:

Kuz started it and jumped on my case like a man on a mission and it allowed him to guide the whole town which was pretty well wandering and floundering about without a lynch before that. Basically, he has stepped in as a leader and he did so on my case which was heavily based on "reaction" testing me, which he's played with me enough to should know doesn't work, and because of my tunneling HipSam which he knows happens all the damn time (ex: HP mafia with Gheb also, TT with Ryker). @Brosuke, what I said about only being able to give you a lean on him was legit, I never trust Kuz 100% because I've gotten burnt before and I would suggest that kind of caution is taken with him.

I like Brosuke, I like Rajam, I like DH, I like Soup.

Of all the people to hop on my wagon I think KevinM and Gord's were the worst. I agree with Brosuke's case on KevinM. Gord I liked overall but his hop on my lynch, he made a big deal of showing he was on board with my lynch while not giving much of a reason other than seconding Kuz, and he was probably the third most excited and in support of my lynch behind Kuz and HipSam with confidence I don't honestly understand.

 

[July]

Oh yeah, I think Ryker is town but he's one I'd keep an eye on as well, I don't think his lack of activity recently is scummy, I think it's finals/holiday season so in general lack of activity is a bit of a moot point. For that reason Raziek is null, Joey null because he hasn't honestly said much and his sheeping is not really out of the ordinary; until he gives more stances on things its hard to tell with him.

Kinda forgot about Circus, I liked the posts he's had although I don't remember many of them so I'd say he's leaning slightly town.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

What can you say about Kuz atm besides take caution?