Final Zelda Discussion - What's In, what's out?

[Creo]

Well apparently they do because we were just doing it. I had no meaning of insulting you in any way...I just thought this would be second nature if you were a fan-boy.
Did you guys like the pics above...I certainly do.

 

[Numa Dude]

Can we please get back on topic?

 

[Deleted member]

Well, uh... I reckon Zant will have a stage dedicated to him, with stage hazards changing with the background like the battle with him in TP. I can easily see that happening.

 

[Numa Dude]

Yes a stage would be adequate... I still think Midna is overrated.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes. The Zelda series is so large that a single character in a single game shouldn't have a higher chance than someone who's been with the series a long time, like Skull kid for example.

 

[Stryks]

^^^
Yeah no wonder sheik was in melee

 

[Numa Dude]

Exactly, there is a little word called seniority that alot of people are ignoring.

EDIT: Sheik=Zelda in a man suit.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Well apparently they do because we were just doing it. I had no meaning of insulting you in any way...I just thought this would be second nature if you were a fan-boy.

I guess I just don't really care that much about what happens between the games.

I'm much more concerned with figuring out how to throw Ganon off a cliff than with what happened to his Triforce, which has so little bearing it's laughable.

EDIT - I'm with Stryks on this one. What's more important than how many games you were in is how fun you'd be as a fighter. In that respect, I think Midna and SK are equal, and while SK has (negligible) seniority, Midna has more relevance currently.

 

[Creo]

It is not a mans suit, it is simply a suit from the Sheikas.

And when do you throw him off a cliff..?

 

[Numa Dude]

You know what I'm tired of people going on about Midna. If a smash game came out after WW would there be this many people fighting about the King of red lions chances because he pretty much played a role of equal importance to Midna's. You can't compare Sheik and Midna. Sheik is Zelda but transformed so she counted as Two separate characters overall but didn't count toward the Zelda series reps while Midna would count toward the series reps and we will most likely only get one newcomer and there are other choices over Midna like Vaati and Skull Kid.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Sheik did count as a whole character, since there are 26 fighters. U do teh m4th!

The King of Red Lions is much more a guide than a companion like Midna, who fights with you, travels everywhere with you, and always has something to say.

When do you throw him off a cliff? Technically, he moar or less walks off a cliff...

 

[Creo]

*NumaDude*I agree with you all the way. But... other choices I would suggest besides Skull Kid and Vaati are the Postman, Happy Mask Salesman, Tingle,(oblivious choices)and possibly Maiku.
Love your sig and your location.

 

[Numa Dude]

Sheik did count as a whole character, since there are 26 fighters. U do teh m4th!

I said that she was a whole character. She didn't count as a separate Zelda rep is what I meant.

The King of Red Lions is much more a guide than a companion like Midna, who fights with you, travels everywhere with you, and always has something to say.

He was still just as important to the story as she was.

 

[Creo]

If not, even more if you don't count Zelda.

 

[the_air_up_there7]

I think sheik might be in, ganon will make it back for sure, and about that stupid skull kid, he is not even important. Zant will make a good new character, and wolf link.

 

[Stryks]

Hahahahaa oh man King of red lions = midna haha...

Look Midna had more of a role, she is by far the most important of all the guide characters (midna, King of r.l., navi) in the zelda series, she had quite possibly the biggest role, if not beaten by link, the main character...

The title ven proves it: LoZ TWILIGHT PRINCESS (thus it could practically be called LoZ Midna), the game revolves around midna and link, and unlike other guide characters, midna is awesome, she has a cool attitude at 1st, even kinda scary when u think about it, kinda like a little brat, while the game develops ur helpin her get what she wants, but at the same time shes helpin u against the baddies, unlike navi who just targeted the bad guy, and the king who stayed in the water while u kick butt...

L8r on u discover shes like the zelda of the twilight realm, not only that earlier zelda sacrificed herself to save her, that alone proves how important she is, u cant compare the king, who was only there to tell u about the stuff that happend hundreds of years ago, and navi who just said: HEY! LISTEN!! WATCH OUT!! over and over, midna is incredibly popular among zelda fans, and since u have not played the game fully, U cant compare midna with anything, its like me comparing metaknight and pit, saying Pit is way more awesome without havent playing him yet, its the same thing...

also just because minda has one appearance,doesnt mean her chances in breing in brawl are gone, might I recall sheik, ganondorf (I know he appeared b4 as ganon, but not as ganonDORF), ICs, and so on? hell since midna is on the most recent game of the zelda series, that raises her chances, while Skull kid (w/ majoras mask) is about 10 years old, he would have been perfect for melee, but now 10 years l8r, it just seems pointless...

 

[Creo]

I only read up to the most ******** thing I've seen that ruined my day. It was "it could be called Legend of Zelda: Midna"... Come on man, that is the dumbest thing on earth.

 

[Stryks]

Hey I know, its dumb, still whose the twiligh princess in LoZ?? There u go...

 

[Chief Mendez]

I said that she was a whole character. She didn't count as a separate Zelda rep is what I meant.

Why not? And who says? You? Then I say he did. It seems we have reached an impasse, sir.

He was still just as important to the story as she was.

And? Again, Midna has the distinct advantages of relevance today and playability. Compare a floating gremlin that wields anti-energy to a boat that talks/a really, really fast old man: which would you rather Smash with?

EDIT - 1st post updated, if anyone cares.

 

[LostAddict]

And you can't say that Skull Kid has seniority, when he had far less total screen time than Midna. TP is longer than Majora's Mask, and you don't see Skull Kid all that much in Majora's Mask, and he has two cameos. Where as Midna is in all of TP constantly voicing her opinion and have actual relevance to the plot. I mean, yes Skull Kid has been in longer, but the scarecrow thing in TP being Skull Kid is easily debatable. Half the music in TP is just remixes of OoT music. (All the wolf's howls) It seemed to me like it was just fan service.

As for my final roster of Zelda characters:

Zelda/Sheik, Link, Ganondorf, Midna and possibly WW Link.

I don't have a good reason for Sheik other than her high popularity in SSBM, and I don't see the benefit of taking her out. So it's mostly just me being biased.

 

[Zelda_Fan_]

Ok possibilities:
Zelda, Ganondorf, Midna, Skull Kid, Zant, Tingle, WW Link, Tetra, WW Zelda (with or w/o Tetra), Sheik, Vaati

My roster:
Link
Zelda (No Shiekd or Tetra, she will be TP Zelda and have her own down+b D: )
Zant
Ganondorf
Wolf Link

Why didn't you put Wolf Link? =\

 

[Chief Mendez]

Why didn't you put Wolf Link? =\

Two reasons:

1. I severely doubt Wolf Link will be included.

2. Midna could imply that. In fact, I'll update the list to do just that.

 

[leprechaunlink727]

Despite the fact that he is hated by many, Tingle seems like the only plausible addition.

Zelda/Shiek is not going to change. The transformation is what made the character original. For those of you who are TP-happy, Shiek's design could be changed to the Black Robe Zelda wears at the beginning.

Ganondorf will stay as well. He will probably get a new, non-clone moveset though, but I really wouldn't mind if he stayed the same.

Young Link will either stay or go. There will be no WW Link. I can't see it happening. Young Link is a clone, regardless of the art style. He may have been one of the better clones, but if he does return, I think a facelift would be a stupid idea. You also obviously don't know how hard it would would be to put a cel-shaded polygon into a regular 3-d environment.

Adding Zant would be like adding Onyx or Veran. He's a minor villain from one game. Sure, his game was recent, but if you completed it, you would know that he looks like squidward without the mask and throws two-year old temper tantrums. While his psychosis may appeal to some, Ganondorf is the only worthy Zelda villain. Not even Vaati is really necessary. People are against adding more Mario villains, so why would we need more Zelda villains?

Likewise, adding Midna would be like adding Navi or The King of Red Lions. They serve the same purpose, and Midna really isn't all that cool. She is just a byproduct of the belief that all new characters will be TP. I really don't understand why Midna is so popular. I prefer the King of Red Lions' wisdom or Navi's helpful hints to Midna's smart alek comments and high-pitched gibberish anyday. Oh yeah, and The Minish Cap. Ezlo was the Minish Cap just like Midna is the Twilight Princess. I don't really see any requests for Ezlo do I?

Skull Kid could actually work. Skull Kid hails from the Golden age of Zelda. TP and WW are good, but OoT and MM will always be the classics. That's why Gorons are in every game and Rito aren't. That's why Tingle has reappeared and we haven't seen much of Tetra. Just like every Mario game is compared to Mario 64, every Zelda game is compared to OoT. Skull Kid comes from OoT, and was the major villain in the sequel. He reappeared in TP if only to annoy the hell out of you with his hide-and-seek puppets. (And yes, this is Skull-Kid, the developers have said so) He may be a race, but so is Yoshi, and I've seen tons of Goron/Zora/Deku requests.

Tingle is extremely popular in Japan, has his own game, and has appeared in every Zelda game since MM except for TP. As far as I see it, he's already in the game.

So here are my thoughts. Please argue with them. I invite you to do so. I'd just like to leave you with this final thought...

 

[Stryks]

Dude just because sheik is popular in melee, doesnt mean she will return, may I remind ALL of u sheik fans that the game is about ALL STARS, is sheik an all star? nope, she is a now a minro character to the zelda series, due to the lack of appearances in both WW and TP, and she will probably never return, why u ask? point in the creation of sheik is to hide zeldas identity in OoT, and if sheik returns, we will know that shes actually zelda, thus theres no point...

Even by some act of god she does return, she will be THE most nerfed character from melee to brawl, thus she would lose the awesomeness and brokage, thus whats the point? Zelda will surely have the light arrows this time around even the guy from IGN believes so, cause she has used them in the last 2 zelda games, thus it fits, give her some TP moves to replace B moves and u got a new zelda without sheik...

Now adding midna or zant is useless? Im afraid ur wrong, midna is now one of zeldas most popular characters, and has IMO a bigger role in the game than any other character, heck she has a bigegr role than link storyline-base IMO, midna has a lot of potential to be one of the most unique characters in brawl, same with zant, but im focusing on midna here, shes is the best candidate for a newcomers from the zelda series, and u say cause she has one appearance shes minor? we still dont know if the twilight-story is gone for good, highly possible it is, but til we get another zelda game, u cant say theyre minor, cause rite now they have a big role, who knows in a few years, but rite now, midna and maybe zant have a good shot...

 

[Chief Mendez]

3, 2, 1, FIGHT!

Despite the fact that he is hated by many, Tingle seems like the only plausible addition.

And how!

Zelda/Shiek is not going to change. The transformation is what made the character original. For those of you who are TP-happy, Shiek's design could be changed to the Black Robe Zelda wears at the beginning.

And there's no other way to make a Zelda character fun and original? Brawl isn't going to draw inspiration from Melee in terms of character design, it's going to draw from the games said characters are from. Thusly, Sheik's out.

Ganondorf will stay as well. He will probably get a new, non-clone moveset though, but I really wouldn't mind if he stayed the same.

You know, the first step to recovery is admitting you're crazy. Stuff like that doesn't help your credibility.

Young Link will either stay or go.

Thank you, Capitain Obvious!

There will be no WW Link. I can't see it happening. Young Link is a clone, regardless of the art style. He may have been one of the better clones, but if he does return, I think a facelift would be a stupid idea. You also obviously don't know how hard it would would be to put a cel-shaded polygon into a regular 3-d environment.

So...un-clone him. The devs aren't lacking imagination when it comes to movesets, you know. And the reason I personally want to see WW Link in is to balance out all the stupid seriousness of the TP trio (Link, Zelda, Ganondorf). Him and Tingle would be great counter-balances to that dopey, brooding Link we all know and love. Also, there's no technical problem putting cel-shaded objects in a 3D world, it just tends to look weird. Solution: Make a textures version of the WW Link character, more similar to the hand-drawn artwork on the first page.

Adding Zant would be like adding Onyx or Veran. He's a minor villain from one game. Sure, his game was recent, but if you completed it, you would know that he looks like squidward without the mask and throws two-year old temper tantrums. While his psychosis may appeal to some, Ganondorf is the only worthy Zelda villain. Not even Vaati is really necessary. People are against adding more Mario villains, so why would we need more Zelda villains?

I agree. But about the Mario villains...what other villains are there? Wart?

Likewise, adding Midna would be like adding Navi or The King of Red Lions. They serve the same purpose, and Midna really isn't all that cool.

But they don't function alike. And Midna isn't cool=opinion=dumb reasoning.

She is just a byproduct of the belief that all new characters will be TP.

Really? I thought she was one of the two main characters in the Wii's top-selling, premier videogame?

I really don't understand why Midna is so popular.

Know why you don't get it? This is why:

I prefer...Navi's helpful hints...

Hey! Listen!

Oh yeah, and The Minish Cap. Ezlo was the Minish Cap just like Midna is the Twilight Princess. I don't really see any requests for Ezlo do I?

Now you're just splitting hairs on a technicality. Ezlo=a hat, or a really tiny old man. Not even feasible.

Skull Kid could actually work. Skull Kid hails from the Golden age of Zelda. TP and WW are good, but OoT and MM will always be the classics.

I'm pretty sure the games are getting better as we go along. Ocarina has the nostalgia factor for alot of us...but compared to TP or WW, it really hasn't aged well.

That's why Gorons are in every game and Rito aren't.

Gorons weren't in the first four games. Don't quote me on that though, it might only be the first 3. The Ritos are negligible, since their time period is way ahead of all the other games. They'll pop up again in Phantom Hourglass, mark my words.

That's why Tingle has reappeared and we haven't seen much of Tetra.

OR, could it be that Tetra exists hundreds of years ahead of Tingle's time? And she's not just in WW. There was a canned GCN game called Tetra's Trackers, and she also helps Link along in PH.

Just like every Mario game is compared to Mario 64, every Zelda game is compared to OoT.

I know what you mean. New Super Mario Bros? IT'S NOT EVEN IN 3-D!!!!!!1!!!!111!!!1!!!

Skull Kid comes from OoT, and was the major villain in the sequel. He reappeared in TP if only to annoy the hell out of you with his hide-and-seek puppets. (And yes, this is Skull-Kid, the developers have said so) He may be a race, but so is Yoshi, and I've seen tons of Goron/Zora/Deku requests.

You got source with that? And yes, ******** people request Zoras and Gorons there are lots of requests for those races, but it just isn't going to happen. (Not SK, the other races I mean. Although I don't think SK will cut it, he's not as ludicrous as a single Goron.)

Tingle is extremely popular in Japan, has his own game, and has appeared in every Zelda game since MM except for TP. As far as I see it, he's already in the game.

Thus, he should be in. Something we agree on! Happy!

As funny as that was, I hope you're not expecting him on the flist.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Whoa, major mistake on my part.

 

[Shuma]

Did you beat Majoras Mask..? The Mask made him not only summon a moon but give him incredible moonwalk abilities, dark powers, and the ability to possess stuff.

Yes i did, And of course the mask gave it/him the power to posses stuff the mask possesed Skull Kid, Dark Powers? as far as i remember the best that thing does is transform into a Whip wielding skinny thing.

I mean if he's in the game it's fine, the more characters the merrier.

 

[Chief Mendez]

I mean if he's in the game it's fine, the more characters the merrier.

That actually applies to everyone on the list, I think.

Going even farther: as long as it doesn't interfere with other, more deserving characters, who wouldn't want to Smash it up as Darmani, Knuckle Jr., Salvatore, a Garo, Ricky, or Nico?

 

[Deleted member]

Who said that Twilight Princess should have been called Legend of Zelda: Midna? That's just... The most horrible thing I've ever heard. The only difference between Navi/The King/all other sidekicks and Midna is that Midna's more annoying (see what I did there?) an actual character. She's a companion, a one-time companion, who may have served an importance purpose in that game but would be the worst character ever. On top of Wolf Link? We have to have three Links now? I've already said this, but the Wolf would handle like Pikachu on crack. As a floating imp? Let's just add all those legendary Pokemon that are the same size that are all so popular now, they'd not work but they have seniority because there's a new Pokemon game. Just look at the characters they've added for each game. She's got a good chance, I guess, but I don't want her in at all.

I think I'll make my predictions, I'll list the ones I think will be in more nearer the top of the list.

Twilight Princess Link
(Confirmed)

Twilight Princess Ganondorf

Twilight Princess Zelda

WW Link
(There may be some problems with using a cel-shaded character, but he's already got a main game and is getting a sequel in Phantom Hourglass.)

Midna
(Probably on Wolf Link. Three Links... At least they're all sort of varied.)

Skull Kid
(Majora form. People are starting to get *****y now, but he's a good representative of the N64 era of Zelda games. With everyone else getting upgrades for Twilight Princess he'd really level things out along with WW Link. I love the character, as do many others, and there are many possibilities with his moveset.)

Tingle
(Hate him. Just hate him. But he has a serious chance because of his Japanese popularity.)

Vaati
(He probably won't be in. He's not important enough at all.)

Tetra
(WW Link doesn't need a companion if Twilight Link already has two forms, a companion, a villain and a princess. We also don't need two Zeldas.)

Zant
(Minor villain in one game. Minor as in... It was all about Ganondorf. As far as I see Ganondorf losing his power meant Zant died, the neck-snapping, thus bringing Zant to an end because he could no longer be revived by Ganondorf.)

Sheik
(Laughable. Zelda has rapiers, no need for Sheik anymore. Why would an entirely different Zelda use Sheik? She doesn't even use the form when she's in hiding.)

 

[Fawriel]

Who said that Twilight Princess should have been called Legend of Zelda: Midna? That's just... The most horrible thing I've ever heard.

It wasn't me who said that, but
1. he didn't say that it SHOULD have been called there
2. it was a pretty darn obvious ANALOGY.

 

[Vampirekain]

Well what I want is to NOT see 3 Links in the game! I don't care if they are different like WW Link TP Link and WolfLink! I wouldn't like that. I think if they are to include one it would have to be either WW Link or WolfLink...I see no point in including young Link again.And about the Sheik thing please just drop it. REALLY low chances of seeing her again in Brawl.They could have a seperate and totally different moveset with Zelda wielding her rapier and make her like a magic swords..woman!!!

 

[Deleted member]

It wasn't me who said that, but
1. he didn't say that it SHOULD have been called there
2. it was a pretty darn obvious ANALOGY.

It's a horrible analogy.

 

[Chief Mendez]

It's a horrible analogy.

It's still an analogy though. Don't take it seriously.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, but it still hurts my eyes to see it written.

 

[Numa Dude]

Can I leave withought this topic growing three pages? Anyway Tingle will NOT be in brawl to rep Zelda. However if Tingle where to be a rep of the Tingle franchise similar to how Yoshi reps Yoshis island then he actauly has a decent chance. Midna still has low chances in my eyes no matter how more important she was to the other guide charatcers. Oh and you can't use Ganondorf and Sheik as examples of why Midna can get in becuase Sheik and Ganondorf are the same entity as Zelda and Ganon so they don't count as a separate rep.

 

[Chief Mendez]

Anyway Tingle will NOT be in brawl to rep Zelda. However if Tingle where to be a rep of the Tingle franchise similar to how Yoshi reps Yoshis island then he actauly has a decent chance.

You mean the one game he has that's not exactly the best selling game of all time (i.e. cult classic, but it's really not that mainstream)? And with the Yoshi comparison...do you really think that's what he's been repping through his entire Smash career? It couldn't be that he's just a major character in the Mario universe, just as Tingle is a major character in the Zelda universe (not as much as Ganon or Zelda, but still up there.)

Plus, he's Aonuma's personal favorite Zelda character, so that has to count for something.

 

[Numa Dude]

Tingle has two games under his belt which I think is the same amount Yoshi had when he got into Smash 64. The Yoshi egg is his insignia I think that means he is a Yoshi rep. I mean its common sense.

 

[Creo]

I know the Rose Colored Rupee Land but what is the other.(my sig show dedication.)
Wait, where is it..?

 

[LukeFonFabre]

Yoshi reps both his own franchise and the Mario franchise. He's still a big staple in the Mario games, and I think it's because the Yoshi franchise has reached such a size that they decided that Yoshi should rep it (and probably make it look like Mario characters weren't flooding up the roster).

Tingle isn't the same at all really. He has two spin off games but it's not like they are calling it the 'Tingle' franchise and it's hardly big enough to count as one. If Tingle gets in, he'll be a Zelda rep, that's practically a given.

Vaati
(He probably won't be in. He's not important enough at all.)

I'd argue Vaati is more important to the series than Skull Kid, especially seeing as some people even consider him to be the main villain of the Cartoon Zeldas (which is debateable, seeing as the main one is WW, in which Ganondorf is still the villain).

 

[Chief Mendez]

Tingle has two games under his belt which I think is the same amount Yoshi had when he got into Smash 64. The Yoshi egg is his insignia I think that means he is a Yoshi rep. I mean its common sense.

Rose Colored Rupee Land is one. The Balloon Fight remix doesn't count. It is literally Balloon Fight...but with Tingle.

And even then (Yoshi), what was Yoshi's Island's subtitle? That's right: 'Super Mario Land 2'. The only game that's soley Yoshi's is Yoshi's Story, which was represented by a stage. When people see Yoshi, they don't immediately think of his obscure N64 game, they think "hey, he's the dinosaur Mario rides!" It's the same with Tingle.

...some people even consider him to be the main villain of the Cartoon Zeldas (which is debateable, seeing as the main one is WW, in which Ganondorf is still the villain).

And the other two games he's in really aren't too story-oriented (or popular, for that matter).